Financial or social collapse first?

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HikingOurParks@reddit

Chicken or egg, doesn't really matter. One will follow the other.

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Personally I see a financial collapse first as it is outside of anyone's control. Culturally, things are pretty messed up now, but push comes to shove we would keep on just dealing with it. That said, when we implode culturally it will be bad, think Siria, or possibly the Balkans with an oppressive government clamping down on any dissent and militias from several factions.

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jumpkickjones@reddit

I see the US going the way of Brazil.

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Away-Map-8428@reddit

Pulling 20 million citizens out of poverty? Nah that wont happen here.

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jumpkickjones@reddit

and this is why I think we will go the path of brazil. theyve made gains but still have a huge gap in social stratification. clapping about 20 million "out of poverty" but ignoring the huge other issues is just applauding fancy accounting. And thats what is happening in the US.

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Away-Map-8428@reddit

I mean I was throwing out an example in response to some vague, disembodied notion that we should know about that you still cant be bothered to put forward besides "huge other issues".

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desubot1@reddit

imho i see it the other way around right now. a social collapse would cascade into the investor class quickly withdraw their wealth and leaving. and this happens quite often if they see the writing on the wall. not just the US system but in other countries as well. If it cascades hard enough then that would lead to the financial collapse.

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_BossOfThisGym_@reddit

>investor class quickly withdraw their wealth and leaving. Where would they go and how would they withdraw their wealth if stocks/money will be useless? Like OP said it's a chicken and egg problem if the US collapses, it will affect everyone globally. The rich could go to a private island, but most rich assholes think short-term (the reason we are in this mess in the first place, ironically) and don't strike me as prepper types. I'm sure there are a few who are. The reality is many of the rich will suffer as much as the rest of us.

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desubot1@reddit

id expect the primary rich people (top 1%) to move their wealth and convert it to something stable into the many insular tax haven type places fairly quickly. the bottom 1% and the rest would probably panic and get hurt but they dont matter as much.

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_BossOfThisGym_@reddit

In a post-civilization world, property will be worthless. What will matter is food-stuffs, supplies of various types and firearms. When you hear that Jeff Bezos bought 1,000 tons of grain and is storing it for later, that's when you should start being worried.

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desubot1@reddit

true though at the same time outside of a straight up grb we arent going straight into a post civilization teotwawki. its going to start with one of these types of collapses. ether social/ economical/ or climate.

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ArtigoQ@reddit

Neither is going to happen. Government will continue to inflate the currency and stoke the markets that will reignite demand for labor and consumer spending Then, reform will inevitably bring about UBI as AI phases out a lot of labor. Finally, as the Boomer generation dies out, assets that have been choked out from the younger generations will suddenly flood markets and a new golden age will sound. There is going to be some tough times, but the end of the world isn't going to happen. With western populations shrinking there simply isn't going to be anything to fight over. There is no "climate catastrophe" and green initiatives have already started all over the west so it will pre-empt and negative effects of carbon build that is realistically just going to result in more fertile lands being opened up north anyway. The future is looking bright honestly.

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RichardActon@reddit

AI will not phase out inherently competitive natures of some humans, though... or will it?

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ArtigoQ@reddit

Eventually all the point-of-sale jobs will be replaced by kiosks. A lot of shipping will be replaced by automated vehicles with some humans to oversee them. New jobs will pop-up alongside the machines too for sure, but eventually there won't be enough spots to go around. Even Doctors will get phased out by AI that have a better hit rate of spotting/diagnosing disease. You'll still need human surgeons though.. until robotics inevitably surpasses human skills. Robot surgeons with far more precision that humans, that don't suffer from fatigue or nerves.

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Curious-Reception-10@reddit

Thanks for shining your light and sharing your viewpoint. I’ve been very stuck on doom and gloom for probably years until I read this. I think it felt safer to feel like I’m “ready for anything”. Whatever ends up happening you’ve brought me some peace in this life.

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ArtigoQ@reddit

Happy to share some optimism friend. I had to block /collapse and the similar subreddits a long time ago because it breeds nothing but anxiety and the people in them have a very strong crab bucket mentality.

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TheAspiringFarmer@reddit

wow...you win the award. for the most absurd take yet. the classic stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-pretend-nothing-is-happening. yep, it's all good. nothing to worry about whatsoever. uncle joe has it under control!

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ArtigoQ@reddit

I'm not pretending nothing is happening. Stuff is always happening *all the time.* I'm just not catastrophizing [like these people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events)

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ValuableTeacher7734@reddit

Uncle Joe the pedo. Ugh. What a complete embarrassment.

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Used_Ad_5831@reddit

I'll be your local ABC dealer. Alcohol, bullets, and coffee. Sacred, sweet coffee.

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TheAspiringFarmer@reddit

> When you hear Jeff Bezos bought 1,000 tons of grain and is storing it for later, that's when we should all be worried. like he's going to tell you that. :/

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wwglen@reddit

Most of the wealth in the top 1% is assets. Company ownership, stocks, real estate. They won't be able to cash it in quickly. That said, they could prepare for a life of relative luxury with a small percentage of their assets, so even if they aren't a dedicated proper, I would expect they are prepared.

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Big_Don-G@reddit

And the meek shall inherit the earth…

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The-Wizard-of_Odd@reddit

We are the priests, of the temple... of Syrinx

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

This along my line of thinking, idk how people now a days working at target or a restaurant can afford $1200-1700 rent in most places. If prices go any higher I think we’re going to see those people take to crime and we’ll have a whole other issue at hand.

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Tony_Stank_91@reddit

The local governments are more likely to re-write zoning laws and become more developer friendly to bring housing costs down. I see it now in my line of work. Literally just left a zoning meeting at a small town in west Chester county. We are literally re-writing the zoning laws to allow for denser residential development.

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brain64@reddit

There wanting to relocate most of the population into stack and citys is why. They want to return 30 percent of the country back to nature by 2035.it was called the rewilding plan then 30x30 now its called America the beautiful but really its all agenda 21/30.

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Tony_Stank_91@reddit

Na man. Local officials just want more tax dollars and less people complaining about high property costs. Not everything is a conspiracy

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brain64@reddit

Not a conspiracy they say it flat out on government websites.they dress it up as saving the environment.

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Tony_Stank_91@reddit

Maybe there’s municipalities somewhere who want to undertake a project or fulfill a vision such as that. All I can say is from, personal experience, that it’s not the case for a majority of local municipalities.

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brain64@reddit

Look into the smart citys also known as 15 minute citys.they don't want cars .you'll live where you work or nearby everywhere you go will be in 15 minutes walk or bike .everything you do will be tracked or monitored. Yes im aware that's happening now but it will be much worse and they'll be intrusive about it.there in the early stages but this stuff has been in the works for at least 20 years.there working on a digital currency and a Chinese style social credit system as we speak. The end goal is to restrict human movement and create more independence on the system .

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brain64@reddit

https://rewilding.org/ https://news.mongabay.com/2021/11/ambitious-english-rewilding-project-aims-to-give-20-of-land-back-to-nature/ The list go on and on.the end goal is globe spanning forests by 2100 and a human population less than 500million in stack and pack citys.

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brain64@reddit

https://www.doi.gov/priorities/america-the-beautiful

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TheAspiringFarmer@reddit

surely you have noticed this pattern is already here and playing out more with each passing day? the crime is off the charts already and rapidly rising. i mean, when the supermarket has the food items locked up behind safety glass with metal bars...for some cans of Spam...perhaps it's time to examine exactly how we got here. :/

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desubot1@reddit

thats kinda why i think it will be social first. the super rich arent effected by these lean times. mean while the people are suffering.

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Anonymo123@reddit

>the super rich arent effected by these lean times. mean while the people are suffering This is so true. I know someone who is in industrial real estate worth well over $100mil. The dude has no clue what is going on and has thought the last few years were great. He has no idea what food or gas costs and is so far removed from the rest of us its disgusting.

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EsmeSalinger@reddit

I can’t really conceive of 100 million dollars. My mind can’t wrap itself around that.

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Led_Zeppole_73@reddit

I can’t wrap my mind around 33 trillion.

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Away-Map-8428@reddit

it's step one of eliminating the debt “over a period of eight years.”

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

I don’t think they realize it either. College kids with finance and biz degrees are breaking even with the salaries they’re given making it almost worthless. Unless you look 10 years down the road and get a raise but other than that, it really worries me.

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RichardActon@reddit

monetary wealth is irrelevant of there is nothing to buy or no one with whom to transact...it's also irrelevant in a centrally (and impartially, so no black market) rationed economy.

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Bonethug609@reddit

Leaving and going where?

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desubot1@reddit

EU, swiss, island based tax havens, russia maybe..lol. various places in asia, whatever place they can put and convert funds into to lose the least amount of wealth early on considering they have their own early warning systems. and when i say they leave im mostly talking about their wealth not necessarily their physical ass. not that it doesnt come with its own risk. for example russian oligarchs getting their wealth seized by putus early on in the Ukrainian invasion.

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mcnasty804@reddit

That’s not true .. the federal reserve and the other world banks are at the helm of this sinking ship

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billy_bob68@reddit

I'd say we are already in it, its been collapsing slowly for some time now. As the Dollar is used less and less to buy petroleum world wide it will pick up speed. Eventually there will be a tipping point where no one else in the world wants US dollars and the inflation we've experienced so far will feel like nothing. The great majority of US cash is outside the US. When other countries start dumping it, it will be shocking what things cost here overnight. There is already a huge percentage of the population here that can't afford their basic needs. All it takes is that population to hit a tipping point and it's on.

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NohPhD@reddit

Predictions are difficult, especially about the future - Yogi Berra Totally agree, one will rapidly follow the other.

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EverVigilant1@reddit

Came here to say this. doesn't matter which comes first.

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Sweet_Hedgehog_834@reddit

Listen or read the book American exit strategy, it kinda shows both working together

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iDreamiPursueiBecome@reddit

As the new petro currency goes from a proposal to reality, supply and demand factors will devalue the US currency by about 1/3. This is coming. It may take over a year, but probably not more than 2. Part of Opec is apparently on board now, and the rest will follow. (The Biden administration ####d up when they pi**ed them off.) . Our government will need help. Based on the sort of terms America and others have imposed in the past, there will be conditions imposed on the help we (will) need. . Our government will re- issue currency, and it will be a programmable digital currency that allows excellent oversight and control. . So arguably financial 'collapse ' first. There will be a period of instability, then things will stabilize. I'm not sure how long it will last. . Whether you want to classify all of this as financial "collapse" or not will likely determine whether financial or social collapse happens first.

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iDreamiPursueiBecome@reddit

Recommended study The Theory of Money and Credit by Ludwig Von Mises He also wrote Prices and Production. A common error involves a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of part of his work. A brief overview can be found in an article available at : Mises Institute online mises.org Keywords to search Knowledge Calculation problem Sort by relevance Look for The Market Process is not a Knowledge Problem by Per Bylund There will be other articles to review as well. The article does a good job of explaining the issue and its importance. To date, the calculation problem has no solution. This is a flaw that is (part of) why "true" communism is not effectively possible (other than as another failed experiment).

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basspo@reddit

These two are interchangeable. Our society is predicated on the values of capitalism and when capitalism falls, so will society as we know it. It either descends into fascism or we organize towards socialism.

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Mammoth_Plane2590@reddit

Well, we're already decades into social collapse. So the next step is financial.

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keeping_the_piece@reddit

Historically, financial or economic collapse usually precedes societal collapse.

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Princessferfs@reddit

I believe social collapse is already here

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d00mrs@reddit

none, gamma ray burst /s

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ZenoofElia@reddit

I think a [Carrington event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event) solar storm taking out global satellite systems, communications and power infrastructure is far more likely to happen in the next 5-10 years as we are now approaching a [solar maximum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_maximum).

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d00mrs@reddit

A CME would be bad, but if we knew it was coming which we probably would, we could take precautions to severely mitigate the damage it could cause. It’s a good thing CME waves and plasma don’t travel at light speed. Also, it would have to be aimed at us, at the right time, right angle, etc. While it’s likely for a *massive* CME to happen in our lifetime, the odds are still pretty low.

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August_Spies42069@reddit

So is it likely or are the odds low? It can't be both.

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d00mrs@reddit

I meant unlikely to be a massive one lol.

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ZenoofElia@reddit

>Also, it would have to be aimed at us, at the right time, right angle, etc Honestly this is like banking on Russian roulette, we've gotten missed countless times over the last 150 years since the Carrington Event last hit us, we are due. Even with a week + warning there's not now much we can do to make our satellite systems ready for it. This is something I take seriously and much more likely to happen in our lifetimes than any other scenario I'm preparing for, including civil war. IMO this realistically could lead to societal collapse and the Dark Ages 2.0 no matter the precautions we take.

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BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit

> we are due. That's the gambler's fallacy. If you roll the dice 50 times and never roll a 1, the odds of a 1 coming up on the next roll are still 1 / 6

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Pirate_450@reddit

Don’t forget this works in reverse. If the average is one every 200 years, we could still get 2 in the same decade!

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ZenoofElia@reddit

Good point Brob. Still a CME (imo) is the most likely celestial black swan event to hit us.

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d00mrs@reddit

It is the most likely to happen in our lifetimes and the chance is still statistically *low*. It’s funny how statistics work sometimes. It is a good idea to prep for this though, as it’s the most likely *cosmic* event to threaten our way of life within our lifetime. Good thing space is fucking *massive* and we’re a speck of dust in our galaxy or we would have to deal with a lot more problems and wouldn’t even be here most likely.

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ZenoofElia@reddit

Sure, yes. And in response to you it's far more likely (statistically) than a gamma ray burst. Although the GRB would be a painless and swift outcome, it's not probable anytime soon.

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d00mrs@reddit

It’s billions of times more likely than a GRB in our lifetimes. I’m not even sure what the nearest GRB candidate is? I think for supernovas, it’s Betelgeuse which is too far to exterminate us luckily lol.

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TheAzureMage@reddit

> It’s a good thing CME waves and plasma don’t travel at light speed. Yeah, Earth gets 15-60 minutes of advance warning of CMEs. That's...nice, but it's only going to allow limited countermeasures.

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Pirate_450@reddit

It’s one of the scariest real things that could happen. As someone who works in the power industry, most people don’t realize that some of these parts of the power system are very specialized and take weeks/months/years to order in normal times!

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TinyDogsRule@reddit

Jewish space lasers?

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theotheraccount0987@reddit

The financial collapse has been engineered to keep us busy. No time on your hands because you are busy trying to keep a roof over your head no time to revolt. If there’s a tipping point and the unemployment rate hits similar levels to the amount of people locked down during 2020 then you might see civil unrest

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Available-Page-2738@reddit

I think it's going to be a cascade failure. A whole lot of systems are primed to fail. The electrical grid, the idea of stable employment, going to college, all of it. Consider the game "Monopoly." Right now, we're in that stage where one of the players owns about 70% of all the properties. The three other players have 10% each. At this point, it's mathematically inevitable what's going to happen. Everything will get steadily worse and then, all at once, the bottom will drop out.

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Illustrious-Soup-985@reddit

Just hoping to take out as many blue tribe as I can and harvest everything from them as possible first.

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Frog491@reddit

US financial dominance is already starting to fail. See the BRICS starting to move to local currency for trade.

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gvictor808@reddit

Definitely financial collapse. We already see it. US Debt interest payments now match US military budget. And unlimited money printing is the one thing that both parties agree upon.

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Skylineviewz@reddit

It’s so fucked up what they have done to us. We have a debt burden that we literally cannot pay. We are safe with the $ being the world reserve currency, but once people lose confidence in that, the chickens will come home to roost

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TheAspiringFarmer@reddit

"they" just gave us the rope. we gladly put it around our own necks and said "yes master please!".

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gvictor808@reddit

If you zoom out, it was always inevitable. All government-issued money ends up as hyperinflation with time. And we have been able to cheat the rest of the world for 50 years because of it. That scam is over now: we have separation of money and state coming. Buy hard assets like precious metals and Bitcoin. I don’t even trust real estate as a long term hard asset…government will seize it as a last ditch effort.

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anyfox7@reddit

How does crypto maintain stability? When the stock market crashes and no alternative, like government issued currency, what will determine value and insure widespread acceptance? I come at post-collapse scenarios from a money-abolitionist, "from each, to each" socialist perspective seeing little worth in even bitcoin or precious metals for trade/barter/purchasing. With historical example, notably Spain during the '36 Civil War, individuals and groups attempted substitution of central-backed form of currency creating issues usage in other areas meant incompatibility. Someone offers me bitcoin....I can't eat it, can't shelter in it; what *can* be done is find like-minded others who can use all of our skills for growing food, building housing, maintaining infrastructure, organize production/distribution all for free, or trade. I've found it easier (and less stressful) imagining terrible societal outcomes after detaching myself from the chains of money. Would we still need be concerned with debt, wage slavery, rent/mortgages, inflation, finances, banking, an economic crisis compiled on another? Nope. Just abolish money, life is too complicated already.

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gvictor808@reddit

It’s not so much about stability, it’s more about storing wealth in hard assets with an eye toward an uncertain future. If you understand gold, you understand Bitcoin. There are obviously some technical differences, but our need for a store of value is built into society and humanity.

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inertlyreactive@reddit

That's kind of the problem, though, which leads to the conclusion many are talking about here.

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anyfox7@reddit

The idea of wealth still resides in a society that has placed arbitrary value in gold, bitcoin, or whatever medium, which has "backed" value and not in a situation where perhaps banks don't exist or a stock market or government. If a group of people or community has excess it's in the best interest for the survival of all to share both materials and skills, sure metals have *use* however eliminating the fixation on money solves more problems; say I'm a doctor and help the community, you show up and need care, instead of paying you can help out in other ways. Sure exchanging money shows proof of value exchange but we can't eat it or whatever, you get my point. If you have no money or gold or bitcoin and need something I'd rather just give it to you for free...that is the value of humanity, helping each other out, it's how we've survived for so long.

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mountthepavement@reddit

Wealth inequality and inflation affect people more than the national debt. People having to work multiple jobs, side jobs, gig jobs just to keep treading water is going to be what breaks society. People are angry, tired and poor, and the government is bought and paid for by the people/corporations causing these problems. Housing is out of control and so is rent, people can barely afford rent, let alone hope to buy a house. Couple that with all the existential crises facing the US and the world, we're all sitting in a pressure cooker.

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

Money printer does go BRRRRR

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financialdrugbro@reddit

Honestly, maybe the unpopular option, I think we will have a bunch of concessions for the working people so to speak, and we will be appeased. I have a feeling one of the major parties or groups will be able to channel the civil unrest into seemingly democratic channels as such most will dissipate

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TheAspiringFarmer@reddit

ah, the classic "take this check and shut up!". feel like we've seen this before.

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Sy_Abelman@reddit

We're effectively being appeased with the internet and have been for years. Bread and circuses while the middle class is destroyed.

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financialdrugbro@reddit

I feel this time we get thrown a couple economic wins. Unions are helping since they’re becoming more popular and active, but it’s just a matter of time before they too become corrupt again. There would need to be an actual fundamental change in markets for any semblance of lasting stability though.

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Sy_Abelman@reddit

I think more the issue is that labor movements can only do so much if the government that is completely broken. I don't see either party effectively advocating for anything except special interests. It's corrupt from top to bottom.

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GreenPL8@reddit

What is a non special interest?

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Sy_Abelman@reddit

Ha! Yeah, exactly.

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06210311200805012006@reddit

panem et circenses grubhub and netflix

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HappyDJ@reddit

That really depends on resource availability. It’s projected that agricultural productivity will drop by 34% by 2050. With a population estimate of 10 billion by that time, I don’t see any group appeasing the masses that are starving. Who knows though. Maybe we will come up with efficient ways to produce calories with less area. My main peeps are around food production and local sustainability. Food will be a great barter, community builder and security. There’s many challenges to overcome, but it’s doable since humans have been doing it for at least 10000 years.

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financialdrugbro@reddit

It seems we have had a few examples of govs starting to subsidize things like garden credits. My favorite example was the program in Nepal that gave a payout to their citizens to develop a habitual to harbor local wildlife. A one time credit massively reduced their hunger rates, increased yearly household income, and diversified their diets all while maintaining the habitat

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Carloanzram1916@reddit

Currency. Civil unrest doesn’t usually last if the economy is still surviving. People eventually go back to work. Economic collapse spurring societal collapse.

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uniquelyavailable@reddit

financial. people can live without money, falling back to bartering and services

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manimento@reddit

Good Q. It also depends on your area. I'd say my area's going through a bit of anomie and disintegration right now. It doesn't have the social infrastructures and such that it might've had once upon a time. Community distrust is in the Orange. I'm biased to say social collapse happens first. Of course, it also makes me wonder, how do we define the collapse of the dollar? Outright illegitimacy hasn't happened as of this moment, sure. But inflation has just been kicking our asses. If you consider this heavy inflation that's been going on the past few years, well... hmmm.

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MaximumTacoPower@reddit

Same. People with zero skills will die in a few weeks. The rest will settle it with who has the most bullets.

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jumpkickjones@reddit

I think financial will happen first. A lot of work is shifting scope and location, prices are rising and aren't likely to go back down, and you have people who's livelihoods rely on people going to work in certain areas suddenly not getting that traffic anymore as work from home continues to expand. Then of course the impending commercial real estate bubble, student loans, cc debt etc. once enough people are stretched thin enough that they stop paying their obligations, the issue spreads as the losses have to be absorbed by someone. I figure we will get the too big to fail speech after the election so they'll patch it all up until then.

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MeAtHereDotNow@reddit

Likely financial, followed closely by social.

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SaltBad6605@reddit

Fail, like you can't use an ATM? I doubt it'll pop like that. Inflation will just be some hard Inflation. HARD. Like, affording to get your kids through their college fund, having the 401k do its job, etc. But, my job was a lot of "trend over time" evaluation. I don't think it takes a genius to so the trend lines in the last century to see the ups and downs. And the hard, insane downs--both in society and financial sector. I think it'll look more like the society and financial in Robocop vs Mad Max. Crappy AF, but still "functional". Ish.

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billtowson1982@reddit

It's very unlikely either will happen. I mean sure there will recessions sometimes and sometimes there will be protests, sometimes with some law-breaking (but nothing on a scale that will directly affect more than a miniscule number of people). Also the "2020 riots" reference made me chuckle. I lived in a city that was affected by the BLM "riots", and I can't tell you how many people who don't live in that city have told me, in person and on social media, that my city was "burned to the ground." Uh, no, I live here. One store window got broken. One. Nobody died. A few bottles were thrown at police. But that's it. One store window. Basically there are certain political forces that do better when they propagandize how "evil" and "dangerous" someone not like you is. Alright, so you see a lot of that propaganda. But it doesn't represent anything real.

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Dredly@reddit

After the numbers and reports came out about how devastating they were... cities like Philadelphia, , LA, and Chicago basically shut the fuck up immediately... because every-time their city wins a sports championship more damage is done then they had happen from BLM lol

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ResponsibleBank1387@reddit

In the US, conservatives will shoot liberals.

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sixpakofdwarves@reddit

You think we don’t have guns?

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ResponsibleBank1387@reddit

they don't think so, that why that will be the start of the collapse.

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sixpakofdwarves@reddit

Touché

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Dredly@reddit

The next "big thing" will be another pandemic that is much worse then Covid. We've been averaging them every 5 years ish... all it will take is a pandemic with a death toll in the 1 - 2% range to crater society again. Covid was like 60 per 100k people, with an inital hospitalized CFR (Case Fatality Rate) of 20% and almost all of those were people already near deaths door. Wait until something on par with H5N1 Avian Flu which has a 50%+ CFR on healthy people happens...  China is already on the verge of collapse and trying to find someone to lash out at, Russia is on the verge of collapse after their failed empire expansion, the middle east is waiting for a spark to get set off again and the Nile Dam isn't helping the situation... the next actually truly deadly pandemic partnered with the anti-vax bullshit thats been spread like wildfire happens and the impacts to global society will be catastrophic, not just inconvenient  The riots aren't going to be a thing, there isn't a sizeable enough population of Trumpers to initiate one, and despite what they want to say, the vast majority aren't willing to die for the cause... so what are they gonna do, riot in the villages and the farms against their own people? nah... that won't happen. MOST of the US wants progress, just at different levels. The small vocal minority does make a lot of noise, and sure we'll see more terrorist attacks by extremists, but the chances of another event like January 6th occurring are near 0

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bardwick@reddit

Assuming either/both happen, timing will be based on locality. Say there is a financial crisis, like a big one. As soon as the ATM's/EBT cards become an issue, I say you have 72 hours to be where you're going to be for the upcoming unrest. I live 30 miles from a large city. There is the potential for significant unrest there, but in my (small) town, there won't really be any. Pushing and shoving at the Walmart maybe.

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wwglen@reddit

So you are worried about 72 hours after an event... But you feel safe 30 minutes away.

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bardwick@reddit

72 hours is when things will far apart. Yes, 30 minutes/30 miles is well far enough since the people I'm most worried about don't have transportation, nor a reason to head out our way.

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wwglen@reddit

72 hours for things to fall from... oh shit To OH SHIT!!! If that's the case, everyone will be trying to get out and will beg, borrow, or steal a way out. If not they will walk. Even if they can't get a ride, 30 miles is a days walk. As they leave, they will look at a map and run to where it looks like things might be better. So yes, they will be coming and it won't be pushing at the Walmart.

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rb109544@reddit

Prob aight to watch the EAMs...rolling out past few hours and P8s everywhere.

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

What

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rb109544@reddit

Military happenings going on that screws both. EAM (Emergency Action Messages) are very active right now.

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

I see what you’re saying now, like the October 4th deal

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rb109544@reddit

Doomsday plane just took off

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

Oh hell yeah

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rb109544@reddit

It's currently flying under a 767 lol hiding in plane sight...literally

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The_SkiBum_Veteran@reddit

Look at the UAW right now. Not only that, but no kid wants to be a mechanic anymore. Wages haven’t changed but tools have shot up in price, a harbor freight (cheap tools) toolbox is a couple thousand dollars, a decent set of tools is going to be around $10-$20k depending on the field you go into, not to mention the specialty tools you may need for your specific job, and now tack on rent, groceries, gas, and a reliable car…it’s not sustainable

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The-Wizard-of_Odd@reddit

You would be shocked to know what I've accomplished with about a $2500 total investment in tools including storage.

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The_SkiBum_Veteran@reddit

When did you buy it?

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WrathOfPaul84@reddit

we are already seeing societal collapse TODAY in every major city in the USA. look at Chicago, Philadelpia and San francisco. I keep seeing instagram videos of groups of teens breaking into stores, carjacking people, and just running into traffic and jumping on people's cars.

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sixpakofdwarves@reddit

LOL, no we are not, you’re getting suckered by your own confirmation bias.

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ResponsibleBank1387@reddit

Chicago, Portland, Minneapolis are burned to the ground back a couple years ago. LA has been gone since the Rodney King riots. OOo, they are still cities? Granted there are isolated parts of society that are temporarly broken down, the majority is still there and functioning.

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wwglen@reddit

People have been worrying about a "collapse" since there have been people. My father was worried about the "big collapse" in the 70's. He died in the 2000's with no collapse. He DID get laid off a few years before he could retire and lost a lot of his company retirement. 1st is short term prepping. Three days to two weeks. Preferably both. 3-days you can take and 2-weeksnat home. Then plan for a personal financial emergency. 2-6 months of being without a job and/or medical emergency. Once you get this, you start planning for the long term. Relocation, Stock Piles, Retirement. Stop when you feel comfortable. Don't worry about any specific thing, unless you live in an agreement suspectable to something like: Hurricane, fire, flood, earthquake.

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working-mama-@reddit

This is so true. Personal financial collapse is the most realistic scenario. And the one that we can prepare for (for the most part).

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BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit

Socil collapse is *hard.* Read the history of the US; we're still standing. Financial collapse relies only on the whims of the Saud family. They could destroy the US economy tomorrow by offering OPEC oil to all comers for non-US currency.

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inertlyreactive@reddit

Idk the Suad family, but Saudi Arabia just sold oil to India for rupees recently. More and more ground is being lost it seems, in regard to our world reserve status.

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BrobdingnagLilliput@reddit

The *Saud* family are the rulers of *Saudi* Arabia.

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inertlyreactive@reddit

Lol yeah I figured. Name checks out.

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working-mama-@reddit

They won’t - despite what they say, it won’t be in their interest. And that actually goes for China too.

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ZenoofElia@reddit

>Like 2020 riots on steroids Do you mean the Jan 6 insurrectionists still aching for a civil war?

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

Could be anything really, I think we’re at a very unstable point in our country.

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TheCircusSands@reddit

Don’t put much credence to something of a gut feeling, but I think more and more people are seeing things as top vs bottom as opposed to left or right.

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The-Wizard-of_Odd@reddit

Not nearly enough... it's still definitely a left or right thing.

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d00mrs@reddit

We’ve been in worse points and made it out though. Luckily.

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d00mrs@reddit

I like how they made us feel bad for politicians that day, for once, probably the only time lol.

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thinkitthrough83@reddit

We are already slowly collapsing in both respects. Our economy has given debt too much value resulting in massive inflation. Socialized Pass the Buck ideology has resulted in too many people not wanting to take responsibility for financial decision making; instead placing the burden of their needs and wants on the shoulders of others contributing to even more inflation.

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Realtemplar1@reddit

Financial first but not wanting to ride the fence, social chaos is interwoven so truly or honestly hard to say what the trigger was or will be. finance, society/ people, crumbling infrastructure, distrust of all levels of government, fake wars, fake food, no corporate or employee loyalty. Take all of that, put in a pot and voila! Chaos.

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frogg616@reddit

Which ever happens first the other will follow

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EmptyCanvass@reddit

I have a feeling that financial will come first and it will lead to social

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naked_number_one@reddit

Financial collapse first, social collapse first!

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TheAzureMage@reddit

Usually they go together. There is immense overlap between war, civil unrest, and drastic economy failure. All three conditions put immense strain on any system, and are all obviously undesirable. Any government that fails to avoid one is likely to have a laundry list of problems, and probably can't handle the additional stress very well. So, it's very common to see the others crop up in response.

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Spuckler_Cletus@reddit

It will be financial. There are too many people who would lose too much if they engaged in any serious violence. How many people do you know who are willing to give up their 401K or the promise if a comfortable retirement to engage in civil war? The only thing holding folks back at this point is that they have so much to lose. When we finally have a real financial meltdown, then there will likely be enough angry people who don’t have so much to lose.

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Anneshusband11@reddit

This. This is also what they don't understand. Half the people stand by and do nothing because at this point, they have to much to lose. When you start taking that, a beast will be unleashed. When it comes out, watch out because everything will have to change before the beast goes back in the bottle.

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Spuckler_Cletus@reddit

Basically, every average, middle class person in the West is heavily invested in The System and its financial stability. These people are also furious. It's a powder keg, especially considering Western sovereign debt.

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Anneshusband11@reddit

Bingo

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Professional_Pen4691@reddit

Our govt, especially the present regime has juuust barely managed to walk that line of gradually reducing our quality of life without flat out depriving the middle class of hope. I used to be midfle class...it was nice. If the bulk of the middle class decides they have nothing to lose, it will get ugly for the politician/parasite class quickly.

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LowBarometer@reddit

Social. Our culture is going to change dramatically as migrants begin to outnumber citizens, not just in the US, but in northern and southern countries throughout the world. As countries take in more migrants they're going to reach a breaking point at which time social networks capitulate followed rapidly by unrest, protests, and failure of government. That's when the finances collapse. So, in my opinion, there will be tremendous social unrest *before* there's a financial collapse.

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Usagi_Shinobi@reddit

No bet. They'll be concurrent enough for which happens first to be purely academic.

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liethose@reddit

Well if the proxy war escalates it won't matter.

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cryptosupercar@reddit

Currency failure, if it happens will take a lot more time. There’s still a considerable amount of sovereign money in treasuries. Bitcoin still doesn’t have enough reach or float to be money at an institutional scale. And we don’t have a mechanism for debt issuance in a non-fiat world at a global scale. To get there requires a number of legal frameworks. In the fiat world the dollar is the strongest currency, as all the fiat currencies are in the same boat. The BRICS currency is still being set up, and that will face tests. The larger issue is wages vs inflation. The fight domestically is between capital and labor, that fight has the potential to spark unrest. As the Fed attempt to bankrupt the middle class in the name of fighting inflation, and corporations use media outlets to lambast the working class while using RTO as a severance free lay off tool. That fight is class warfare. So I would argue that society fails first. And if we see another year as hot as this one or hotter, we begin to see crop failures, and increased famine, further exacerbating the wage/inflation imbalance pushing us closer to civil unrest. Maybe not in the US first, but definitely elsewhere.

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pppc1145@reddit

Cryptosupercar I think what you have written here has a high percentage of likelihood. Your second paragraph is akin to a blueprint. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Individual_Run8841@reddit

I don’t see collapse, but certainly a even stronger decline of societal order, in the coming Months and Years… next Year we will see surely further rising Food Prices and Gas/Energy Prices at least on the same level but quiet possible going up higher too… which leads to further despair in ever increasing portion of the people, and increasing stress and struggles to make a living… Sadly this means Bad Times ahead…

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AdditionalAd9794@reddit

Kind of a concerning thing globally. But if you look at the USD, especially since June, it is doing damn well compared to other currencies Figure we have it bad with inflation, the rest of the world has it worse. Social collapse? In my opinion things are cooling off, but we will see this election cycle. I think we are pretty far off from society collapse

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SignificantWear1310@reddit

Social collapse is happening now, in the US.

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TheReckoning22@reddit

It’s always financial collapse first. It’s typically the financial disparities and financial desperation that causes social unrest. Read “The 5 stages of collapse” by Demetri Orlov. Even the “hint” of a problem can throw the markets into a tailspin.

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_bicycle_repair_man_@reddit

Financial. A 9-5 is the only thing keeping a lot of people stable.

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tianavitoli@reddit

summer of love 2: electric boogaloo

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

I just read about it! Sorry

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pappyvanwinkle1111@reddit

If you read Patriots by James Rawles and then take a peek at our national debt, your testicles will retract.

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Urantian6250@reddit

Financial…. 1 day later societal ( or PDQ).

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Ok-Way8392@reddit

How does one prepare for this?

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

Save $ or buy guns

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prepnguns@reddit

If you mean bad Recession or Stagflation or Deflation, sure I believe those can happen. But if you mean like a 1929 Depression I strongly doubt it. I don't believe our society will have a civil war. There will be social unrests, continued culture wars, continued political BS but nothing near breaking the union. We'll wait till the next election and try get our way. So IMO, my answer is prepare for a recession, job loss, and social unrest but not to that extreme level.

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thomas533@reddit

We are already in a societal collapse. We are actively seeing our global civilization cannibalizing itself. What hasn't happened yet is that the general public realizing that the people at the top are already in the process of grabbing all the remaining resources. When that happens, then the panic sets in.

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khoawala@reddit

I've always wonder what would happen to everyone's debt if our currency collapse... We would all be able to pay off our debt instantly but won't be able to afford to eat at the same time?

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YardFudge@reddit

Tuesday will come first

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Novice_stacker84@reddit (OP)

What’s tuesday

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YardFudge@reddit

We prepare for Tuesday, not Doomsday It refers to the false choice you presented

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RisingAtlantis@reddit

I assume your in the U.S…. Social collapse. Republicans will chose someone other than Trump to run for President in 2024. Trump will create his MAGA political party and destroy the old system as he further spirals into destruction himself.

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CheapBison1861@reddit

Can we do both at the same time?

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BillazeitfaGates@reddit

Financial first

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thatmikeguy@reddit

Sadly both at the same time because of war. The US won't allow BRICS to function, and China will continue to decline in numbers of available workers until 2080. It's not just the one child policy part the news talks about, but their over 60 percentage of the population goes up 8% from 2020-2030, but that does not level out until 2080. While at the same time they are doing 30% of world manufacturing currently.

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Public_Beach_Nudity@reddit

Financial, it’s already in motion, but it’s starting from the bottom up. First time home buying is way down (I don’t remember the numbers, and the records), and current homeowners are walking on egg shells knowing that property taxes are going up, up, up. If you think that’s bad, there’s likely someone who is going into your courthouse to figure out who is delinquent on their property taxes in order to buy your home or property from under your fear. I’m a homeowner, and I can probably guarantee you all that someone out there has an approved loan from the bank to buy my shit up if anything were to happen. It sucks, but it’s legal, and that’s all that can be said about it.

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pf_burner_acct@reddit

**Financial**: recession, correction, and back on track. Long-term investors will be fine. Speculators will either get stomped flat -or- make a ton of money depending on how they invested. We're not going to be bartering with silver or chickens any time soon....unless you want to and can find someone else to trade with, of course. More power to you. Credit cards and banks will still function. You'll go to work and get your direct deposits. This will not change. **Societal**: no "collapse" in the prepper sense. You might have orchestrated insurrections as we had during the summer of 2020, and they'll be choregraphed and managed as they were before, but only if elections go a certain way. Widespread strife will be squashed if the correct people are in charge. What we saw in Portland and Seattle, the refusal of offers to assist from the "wrong" people, will be graciously accepted from the "right" people under the banner of *protecting innocents*. Any riots, or even more outright insurrections, will be in the predictable cities in the predictable states. I'm not worried about the folks in cities and regions who have elected even half-way competent leadership. Ultimately, the voters will get what they asked for. Who can be upset about that? Democracy!

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Pristine-Dirt729@reddit

Yes. Financial first. It's too close.

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MasterManufacturer72@reddit

What if it never comes and the capitalsit machine just keeps on rolling and we get deeper and deeper into a post modernist nightmare.

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Big_Tittied_Ninja@reddit

Civil unrest, but it will be in clusters just like the 2020 riots. At a minimum, everyone in major cities should prepare for a riot after the election. Whatever political party wins doesn't matter, there are going to be very upset fringe groups on either side.

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ForwardPlantain2830@reddit

I'm cool with it. Just wall in the cities and let them burn.

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theycallmeMrPickles@reddit

Sweet, didn't have a 2024 reboot of Escape From New York in my bingo card but fuck it, if the world's going to shit, Snake Plissken is the man for the job.

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DannyBones00@reddit

There goes 85-90% of the wealth.

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ZenoofElia@reddit

You mean like the 10 people/families who own 90% of the wealth? Yeah let's eat those fuckers asap.

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Iam-WinstonSmith@reddit

It's time isn't it?

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pf_burner_acct@reddit

Depends on who wins, of course.

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jedeye121@reddit

I would say financial. Societies with high GDP, good productivity, low unemployment and a vibrant middle class tend to have high social cohesion because people aren’t “fighting over scraps.” You would still have your “outraged” fringe, but it’s much harder to gain an audience from people who are doing just fine.

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textye@reddit

Between those two, Social Collapse before Financial collapse. But, I think that zombie invasion is more likely than Social collapse.

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rmannyconda78@reddit

That’s a hard question to answer as there is a lot of factors, but either way, bring it on.

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