Yeah Zelensky literally lifted the civilian ban on owning weapons and then started handing machine guns out to babushkas. That shows you how invaluable the 2nd ammendment is.
You guys are living in a goddamned dreamland where you all think you're the main character of a story. As someone still serving after multiple combat tours, I'll tell you why having "armed civilians" is a goddamn nightmare:
At the tactical level - you're nobody,i don't know you. You're considered a threat to both sides. You're not in our uniform so who the fuck are you? Are you a sleeper? Are you with the other side? Too bad, you have a gun in your hand - you're getting put down.
It's crazy how you think anyone would consider you for assisting in a combat scenario - like "oh no pot shots are coming from that house, better call in an artillery strike"
Now you, your wife, your kids are all fucking dead.
You think the hundred hours you put in on a static range (or that ridiculous amount you paid for those CQC courses) actually makes you equipped for the insanity and chaos of combat?
Have you ever taken effective fire? Do you know how to shoot, move and communicate? When taking effective fire you don't know where the hell those shots are coming from - which is why you need an entire team to fight in battle.
But hey, let's say you approached us in between conflict - like what are you gonna say? "Hey I'm with you guys! Let me fight with you!"
We'll take your guns and tell you to fuck off, or detain you and send you off with authorities. You're not trained in the spectrum of land combat operations, you didn't train with our team or unit, you're no one. You're not only a threat to yourself, you're a threat to my team by doing dumb shit.
The sheet amount of choreography, planning, and constant communication required is not something you pick up from watching movies or playing video games. Between fields of fire, forward or lateral movements, land navigation, you're fucking everything up. You're less than worthless to us, you're a detriment.
On the strategic level, now the other side has justification to absolutely murder you and anyone around you. You probably just got everyone killed in a civilian evacuation. If you have a gun, you're a threat. Threats get put down with overwhelming force.
So if you think someone doesn't invade the US because "everyone has guns" you're a fucking moron. That's not even considered a thing in operational planning because no one in a trained military gives a shit. We know, they know, everyone knows you'll shit your pants the moment the lead starts slinging because it's nothing like you had nightly wet dreams over.
So just go back to taking selfies with your super cool guns and thousands of dollars of "tactical" gear but quit pretending like you and your jerk off friends will stand a chance in any form of combat scenarios.
In other news, Reddit man says he would be down to kill his own fellow citizens.
Also do you not understand to any degree what happened in the Middle East, or Vietnam? Or any other location where you guys get dumpstered by farmers in flip flops
Lol I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. But it's okay little fella - it's gotta be rough being the aforementioned moron I spoke of.
I've got 2 years until I hit 26 and retire comfortably so keep on with your apparent wealth of "knowledge." I'm sure you're headed in the right direction. 🤙
Gotta love how you completely ignore the u.s military's continuing losses against various insurgen₡ies around the world.
"You dumb larper, dont you understand that we could just drone strlke you?"
Uh huh, that's how you won in afganistan right? Hmmmm
I'm not sure where you're going with this? I assume you're comparing a nation of citizens v conventional military, but correct me if I'm wrong. If you are, then you're, in a way, proving my point. You couldn't identify who the "bad guy" is, so rule-of-thumb was: if they are armed, they're a threat.
My point was conventional military v conventional military with random armed civilians running around playing Rambo.
It must be nice to be so simple-minded to generalize multiple generations of active armed conflict with different strategies and think yourself an obvious expert from the comfort of your own home.
Plus, I'd never make fun of people enjoying LARP or whatever. The term for you people is "Cosplaytriots." Costume playing 24/7, enveloping your entire personality and identity as gun-toting "patriot."
>I'm not sure where you're going with this? I assume you're comparing a nation of citizens v conventional military, but correct me if I'm wrong. If you are, then you're, in a way, proving my point. You couldn't identify who the "bad guy" is, so rule-of-thumb was: if they are armed, they're a threat.
And yet, somehow irregular fighters in afganistan were able to distinguish friend from foe. Almost as if you dont need a conventional military structure to be organized
>My point was conventional military v conventional military with random armed civilians running around playing Rambo.
It must be nice to be so simple-minded to generalize multiple generations of active armed conflict with different strategies and think yourself an obvious expert from the comfort of your own home.
Odd, you claim that irregular fighters would have no way of identifying who is on their side, and also that they would have no way to defend against the superior hardware of a conventional military. And yet, the strongest military in the world lost to religious zealots in afganistan, which you are still avoiding addressing.
Clearly you are the one generalizing
Dude, what? There was ABSOLUTELY blue on green, green on blue, green on green fratricide? It happened ALL THE TIME. In fact, it happened way more often with the militias because of accidents, tribal bullshit, or even who gets to fuck the new kid. Same thing in Syria.
As far as Afghanistan, what do you want me to say? They retreated into Pakistan, a sovereign nation or into the mountainous north. However, the US absolutely slaughtered a shit ton of people - something I hate thinking about. All for what? At the same time, the political appetite for American deaths quickly reached zero, and everyone was restricted to the confines of their base.
The responsibility was on the afghan government to rid the rest of AQ, so Western forces were in an advise/assist role only in the latter half of EF.
So lost/won who the fuck knows? I don't even know what the end game was for Afghanistan. Idiot politicians thinking democracy was possible to erect in 20 years in a country with intricate and niche warring governance for thousands?
If you're trying to paint the picture that people like you are just as capable as the Taliban, you're insane. Americans in general are weak-minded and entitled, full of unearned grandeur.
But yeah guy, go ahead and live in your fantasy land of militia bullshit if it makes you feel important or gives you purpose. Or I dunno, go and do something actually important?
You all have a disgusting appetite for something you really do not want to bite into. For your sake, I hope you never have to.
>Dude, what? There was ABSOLUTELY blue on green, green on blue, green on green fratricide?
and yet they took over the country. Must have been organized enough.
>At the same time, the political appetite for American deaths quickly reached zero, and everyone was restricted to the confines of their base.
Yeah, 20 years of desert combat with nothing to show for it certainly will make people tired of the war. If the U.S really was as competent as you claim it wouldnt have taken them decades to pacify a region they had no business in.
>The responsibility was on the afghan government to rid the rest of AQ, so Western forces were in an advise/assist role only in the latter half of EF.
U.s boots were on the ground too. Didnt mean much
>So lost/won who the fuck knows?
Well afganistan is under taliban control. So who won isnt really a question
>Americans in general are weak-minded and entitled, full of unearned grandeur.
It's easy to tell that someone doesnt know what they are talking about when they generalize the entire country. Btw half of all service members are overweight
>You all have a disgusting appetite for something you really do not want to bite into. For your sake, I hope you never have to.
Oh yes because the people who wrote up the constitution were idiots and your much smarter
Oh, I'm sorry. Please explain where you got your knowledge about a large armed populace vs. modern military forces?
US and Vietnam? US and Afghanistan? Russia and Afghanistan? US and Somalia? The Revolutionary War?
What about the numerous WWII resistance groups fighting against Nazis
Or do you think just being in the military, you feel like you have more knowledge than anyone who can research
You're not making the point you think you're making.
The military doesn't have a shortage of people trying to enlist - its that people like you aren't eligible because they can't perform due to obesity.
But yeah okay, apparently my point is moot because of enlistment issues and people are overweight?
As for Afghanistan, I honestly just feel bad for its people who want a normal life but can't because they have far-right gun-toting idiots who think they know better than everyone else.
Your point is moot because half of the service members already in the military are overweight. Clearly the standards in the military arnt what you think they are
I really honestly thought the whole George floyd shit would change lefties over.
I thought that little lightbulb would turn on over thier heads and one of them would say: "cops are committing atrocities against us, we should be more armed than the cops in order to change their tactics"
But nope. Let's break shit light fires and steal tennis shoes. Fuck it.
Goddamn Americans. The answer to everything isn’t “get a gun”. Maybe fixing the fucking police force is a better answer. Meh, I’m done with this sub. You’re all a bunch of rednecks with closet fantasies of shooting someone. I’m willing to bet hardly any of you have seen military service or have even had adequate training, or understand the importance of responsible firearm ownership. You’re all just second amendment wankers. Cheers.
I understand where you are coming from and get your point.
I think you are missing the big picture. American "gun nuts" aren't about making guns the answer to every problem. Taking guns away from the 99.9% of people who aren't the problem doesn't solve any problems. Making it more difficult for average people doesn't make crime go away. The biggest statistic no one talks about is the millions of defensive gun uses that stop crime. Since it doesn't sell media clicks, no one really knows the actual number, but legit sources claim a few million defensive stops per year.
All of the gun nuts I know toss thousands of rounds downrange a year. Far more than cops or military. To go even a step further... Concealed carry users are even more vigilant than any others. The gun nuts are the guys you want on your side and lurking when you need help. Cops only arrive after the tragedy. It's better practice to stop or prevent it before it happens.
Cheers
No military service but I regularly train with my firearms, usually in full kit (plate carrier, helmet, belt, etc). I genuinely hope I never have to use my firearms against a person, and I'm willing to bet 99.99% of US gun owners feel the same way. We do not want to hurt people, we own these weapons to protect life, be it ours or someone elses.
However, I continue to train to be as proficient as possible, and continue to carry one on me every day because if something does happen, I refuse to be a victim. I refuse to have my day (or life in the worst case scenario) end on someone elses terms.
Military service means absolutely fuck all seeing as how the majority of the military only touches their firearms when they have to qualify once a year. Working as a range safety officer I've seen enough "veterens" knowing absolutely nothing about the guns they own, not even knowing how they actually function, whereas I've seen countless regular civilians be more proficient than those veterans could ever be.
I'm going to assume you aren't from the US. You weren't raised with the idea that the people are in control of the government. The government is under our employ, they should be doing what we want them to. We elect them, they are not appointed. Although it's pretty fucked up how plenty of our politicians forget or just don't care about the fact that they are servants, and that the bill of rights tells the government what they cannot do, rather than telling civilians what we can do. You're entitled to your opinion but generalizing everyone on this sub as "2A wankers and rednecks" shows you have no critical thinking skills. The fact of the matter is, guns are a symbol of freedom. If a country does not allow its citizens to own firearms, then I view those people as subjects rather than citizens.
When the government fears it's citizens, we have freedom. When the citizens fear the government, we have tyranny. Simple as that.
Well I do apologise for my generalisation during an admittedly annoyance-fuelled rant. Because I actually like America and it’s people. But the gun crowd just pisses me off, which sucks. I feel like I can’t meet firearms owners who share my views. I’m from South Africa and was in the army there. I’ve heard that our training and general attitude towards firearm proficiency is probably more stringent than that of the US.
Either way, I’d like to thank you for the thoughtful and poignant response. It’s the most intelligent one I’ve had on this sub.
I’m glad you train and that you keep training. All the best. See ya.
That's understandable, we've all ranted before and made generalizations in the heat of the moment.
For the most part, I, along with many others, just don't want to be messed with. We have so many different laws regulating firearms for arbitrary reasons on both the federal and state levels that we vehemently deny any new restrictions simply because they will not help with anything. All I want is to own whatever firearms I want and to be left alone. Meanwhile, we have politicians who want to turn peaceful, lawful gun owners into felons overnight.
I firmly believe that my rights end when someone elses begin, so as long as I'm not infringing on someone else's rights, I should be left alone.
I'm not familiar with the culture surrounding firearms in South Africa, so won't speak on it. My only experience is with the culture here in the US, which can vary wildly depending who you speak to.
Thanks for responding in a polite and respectful manner instead of just name calling and trying to throw titles onto me that don't apply. We can agree to disagree on these issues, but for me it is a topic very dear to me as I'm used to most "non firearm" people vehemently trying to twist facts and use emotion rather than a rational, thoughtful discussion.
Hope you have a good day!
>Military service means absolutely fuck all seeing as how the majority of the military only touches their firearms when they have to qualify once a year. Working as a range safety officer I've seen enough "veterens" knowing absolutely nothing about the guns they own, not even knowing how they actually function, whereas I've seen countless regular civilians be more proficient than those veterans could ever be.
I just met a Marine staff nco who hasn't qual'd, let alone touched a rifle, since boot camp 15 years ago.
God damn lol that's insane. The only veterans I'll listen to regarding firearms are actual combat veterans who actually saw combat, as they can provide insight into setting up kit as they have actual experience (like my old co worker who served during OEF (?)in Afghan, telling me I should carry more ammo than the 4 mags on my carrier + one on my belt). But when it comes to their stance on wanting more restrictions using the "I'm a VeTeRaN" schtick, when in reality they sat in an office filing papers in uniform I'm just not even going to entertain that bullshit.
Yep, it's always the super POGs
And yeah your coworker is right. Though our combat load was 6 mags. I usually had a couple more in my day pack. You're also gonna need more tourniquets than you think. I carried 4 if I remember correctly.
Yep, I've just delegated more space in my 24hr pack I clip into my carrier for extra mags. TQ's I do need to add more of, currently running two. One on the belt and one on the carrier
For sure. I think I'm going to make two more basic elastic pouches and run one in the rear of my carrier and off to the side. The one on my carrier now is on the front dangling under the placard.
Also made the mistake of not buying more 4" elastic webbing on my big fabric/velcro order today lol.
Nah lol, it's just elastic with velcro, so it doesn't hang super low, just low enough for my to still be able to grab it. I've got photos on my IG (deadconcepts) if you'd wanna check it out.
Back of carrier I still need to figure out, maybe make it a double pouch so it's easier to grab one from either side.
For the belt mounted, I'm working on a med pouch prototype so am trying to figure out how to keep the pouch relatively flat while being able to pack a decent amount of stuff into it, and being able to slip a TQ and shears onto the outside instead of it hanging off and dangling.
There is no "fixing" the police. They're not here to keep you safe. And they're under no legal obligation to risk their lives. Source:
Warren v DC
Castle Rock v Gonzalez
DeShaney v Winnebago County
Lozito vs New York City
Douglas High Students v Broward County Sheriff's Office
Luckily for you I'm veteran and redneck with adequate training.
Cops/pigs don't stand on people's necks for 10 minutes when more people are armed. They don't beat you, they don't throw cs gas at you. You don't understand the cop does that because he has the force to do so. When one person has the power the ice their entire riot line in 1 mag, they behave.
I'm not saying you need to use any force at all. It's the deterrent of it all. That's what the gun gives you. Fuck around and find out truly exists when you're armed. Everyone knows it.
My generalisation isn’t fair, and I realise that. And I agree that cops wouldn’t do that if more people are armed, but that solution is not solving an issue from its source. It’s a reactive measure as opposed to a preventative measure. You must understand the point I’m making right?
Yes, you want to use a method that doesn't work in place of a method that does work.
Because having that type of power isn't something you've been trained for or are used to.
You don't need a gun until you do.
If Uvalde didn't convince them nothing will. Whenever I see people using that massacre as an example in their argument for gun control I have an aneurism
People want guns to be taken from police. That’s the point of wanting to defund police officers. They don’t fucking need assault rifles. Even when they do, they’re too pansy to enter a school being shot up. But hey.
Seriously, not to mention January 6th
Like if you ask someone on the left what they learned over the last 8 years they'll legitimately say "the government is corrupt, the police are more like to assault you than save you, and politicians couldn't care less about it"
Yet somehow that doesn't signal to them that they should be able to defend themselves
All that said there are also 100 percent people on the left waking up about gun ownership as well,
"they are doing fine"
Apparently being invaded and full scale war is "fine" to these idiots.
They're only surviving because of all the goodies we and other countries keep sending them.
A few civilians get killed by suicides, accidents, gang related shootings, and sometimes by insane nutcases, everyone loses their mind and wants to ban everything from guns to cutlery.
But when a government kills a million, it's just another headline and everything will be fine after 1000 likes on Facebook.
There are literally tons of weak defenseless unarmed Ukrainian girls getting raped by bigger stronger Russian male soldiers cuz they dont have a gun. And this moron thinks they dont need a 2nd amendment? Delusional as fuck
These are the morons that make genocides possible. The peace movement has likely one of the biggest indirect kill counts of any ideology of modern times.
This. Not to sound like Sundowner, but war/violence is a part of who we are to a degree. Don't get me wrong, I like the (mostly) peace were currently in, but at the end of the day idealogies and beliefs that are incompatible with each other will always exist, and so long as they exist they will continue to spawn anger, hate an eventually, violence and war. What we must do in this scenario is 1. Try our best to vy for peace and 2. Be adequately prepared if that unfortunately doesn't work out
Two flags?! You animal!! that’s probably, like, a whole regiment of Russians killed. Thank you for your service!
This is far more helpful than an armed populace. You’ve done God’s work here today. 🫡
Sorry but you made yourself sound like a dumbass with the Japan thing. He never said that, and that's not why Japan didn't invade the mainland U.S. Also Ukraine Probably would have lasted a couple months. But other than that, yes.
A country has been invaded for more than a year but they're fine. I wouldn't consider that fine. They're literally fighting with everything they can 24/7. And wouldn't have made it this long without the enormous amount of help of a bunch of different countries
These are the people who fully believe that Trump was/is trying to build a Far Right Dictatorship in the United States WHILE actively trying to disarm themselves......even while he was President.
What kind of moron sees a Despot and thinks to themselves, "Holy Shit this guy is Hitler 2.0 I better immediately hand all of my guns over to him!"
They don't lack common sense they lack the basic drive for self preservation.
Because nothing can change the vision of the anointed. What they believe is the way it is, and anything else is a lie. You cannot tear down their reality with facts, knowledge or thinking analytically. You simply cannot change their vision of reality.
They have put it together, they just don't care. Death, destruction, and chaos is the desire of the left. This is plainly obvious by simply looking at EVERYTHING they support.
Also, ironic that the left will acknowledge over 50% of the population is incredibly stupid. Then, proceed to tell you that democrats make up a majority of the population.
Oh fuck off you moron. You don’t need a second amendment in order to have an armed civilian population. Stop acting like America is the only country that’s allowed to have weapons. And stop acting like the right to have weapons, second amendment or none, would have stopped Putin. Read a fucking book.
I know people that are like that, and have made jokes like "if the zombie apocalypse hits I'm just gonna head to your house". My usual response is "sorry the party will be B.Y.O.B.G." Bring your own bullets and guns.
I just tell people that if you expect me to provide protection you're gonna work
If you're running to me to protect you than you're the one who's doing the hard labor digging latrines and trenches, and putting up the fencing (my town doesn't allow fences over 3.5 feet tall, so I have enough 7 foot fencing on standby to replace the entire perimeter
One of the first things their Comic/President did was lift the ban on citizens using firearms.
All of a sudden armed citizens sounded like a good idea.
Only because the state was in danger, it had nothing to do with individual Ukrainians and their right to defend themselves. If Ukrainian elites thought their military could handle it firearms would still be tightly controlled.
And when this war is over with the likely outcome being Ukraine still controls Kiev, the government will demand that all civilians turn them back in. Many won't, but they'll no longer have the protection under the law to possess and use them.
Imagine how better off they’d have been if they didn’t have to wait for American weapons. How much of an advantage they’d have had already being familiar with their own weapons. It’s almost like being ready for war is better than waiting until you’re in one.
You don’t wait till the car-jacker is in your car to lock the door…
I’d rather have and not need.
If most of the Ukrainian population had been armed prior to the invasion, they probably could’ve had Russia calling it off within weeks/months. The combination of the initial challenge of fighting the defending army and armed citizens + the assets and support from the international community would make things even harder for Russia.
Yup, and why 2A “nut jobs” are so adamant about it here is because there is VERY little reason to believe anyone would send their military assets to American citizens to defend themselves in the face of an invasion.
And that’s fine, because we’ve already got them, and we kind of like it that way!
They are not stupid or crazy, they are evil, they hate you, want you disarmed, because they get why want you dead, your kids raped and brainwashed and they think it’s funny.
Four years in the National Forensics League. I'm credentialed.
There is no argument here. The conversation in the screenshots is simply bad, and wrong, and full of 2A bollocks.
"Yeezy, get your gun, the mobiks are coming! And get your dad's stash of Baltika!"
Please. Spare me.
Bollocks? Sounds like you might be British. How’s your gun laws going these days? Enjoy being a subject? Your empire has fallen a great deal from where they used to be, eh govnah? Ever wonder if it’s because your citizenry were stripped of their ability to arm and train themselves? Hell, Russia is planning an attack on the UK as we speak. Better grab your pitchfork and colostomy bag boyo, because you’ll soon need it.
There’s a reason the US has never had its mainland invaded by a belligerent in the past century. China has a 150 million man army. Why haven’t they stepped foot onto our land with endless battalions of their men? Why haven’t the Russians? It’s because our civilian population (which is very well armed and 100 fold greater in numbers than our current active duty military) would absolutely dunk on any invading force from a great height, and our military would absolutely initiate a first nuclear strike.
The second amendment is protect against all enemies, both foreign and domestically tyrannical in nature.
Your wild presumptions about my nationality based on my use of the word "bollocks" lend credence to my point.
I'm a proud American, armed to the teeth, and smart enough to know that my guns, and those of my fellow Alaskans, would serve no purpose if evil boogeyman Putin "invaded". The boys and girls at Club Wainwright and Club Eielson would.
Xi isn't worried about my stash of guns. He's worried about losing the food we ship to China by the giga ton.
I enjoy my second amendment rights, and will support yours as well, but be realistic. Your AR and Fall/Winter collection from Maxx Tactical catalog will do nothing in the face of a well-trained, provisioned, disciplined professional military. Luckily for Ukraine, Putin didn't have those, nor did he have a plan.
Recent history would strongly disagree with your statement that people with little more than a rifle and camo will "do nothing" in the face of a well-trained, provisioned, disciplined professional military.
>Four years in the National Forensics League. I'm credentialed.
Using membership in a high school debate society as some form of "credentialing" has got to be the strangest and weakest flex I have ever seen on the internet.
Are you in toastmasters too?
Dude, I have the 30 year old card framed and under a spot light. Of fucking course I'm in toastmasters.
This entire sub needs to go watch Mel Brooks, Larry & Dave Zucker's collections. Stat.
Too much Fox/ONN/Newsmax, not enough laughter in here.
The Ukrainian government was handing out weapons to civilians in major cities. That is not bullocks, it happened. The left here in the US celebrated the action. Also, not bullocks. Apparently, both the Ukranians and our anti-gun media thought this action would have an effect.
You offered a differing opinion via mockery. That's an argument. An obnoxious one at that.
Show me where anyone said this stopped the Russians. You're doing it again.
You should ask that question of the Russians. Nothing they did in the 1st 6 months of the war had a coherent rational plan. Maybe the greatest overextension in history.
Your second paragraph is spot on.
The previous statement, however, demonstrates lack of abstraction.
The market is open. I have money to make for the next fifteen minutes. This conversation is not profitable.
Because you started at a loss.
This whole conversation wasn't about Ukrainian civilians winning the war. It was about the hypocrisy of the American left celebrating the arming of Ukrainians while trying to force the opposite here, and the value of armed civilians as a deterrent.
Things like what happened it Bucha would be mitigated if the Russians were unable to leave small units to commit atrocities due to armed civilians. They would be forced to either be more 'polite' or leave larger numbers of men, which hurts their efforts elsewhere. This is the type of impact I would expect.
Ukraine civilian casualties 8,000 per approx. 70,0000 deaths so little over 10%
Afghanistan/ Pakistan where there were guns everywhere: Civilian Casualties 70,000 per 243,000 deaths so almost 30%
But please tell me how having a 9mm helps you when a laser-guided high precision ammunition rips you and everything in a 200ft radius into smouldering ashes?
Then Japan not invading the mainland quote didn't happen.
Small arms only wouldn't stop Russia. Which is why we see the support that Ukraine is getting isn't just small arms. Armored vehicles, drones, artillery, etc. They are getting "combined arms".
exaaaaaaactly! and thats just from foreign invasion let alone home invasion and robneries from your own citizens. "gun nuts" is always such a stupid phrase.
I also don't think armed citizens would have prevented the russians from invading, but it definitely could have saved their lives instead of being tortured and raped by a bunch of ogres.
It may have given them some pause, at least.
Imagine being in charge of the invasion plan for the US. You not only have to plan for the US military response, but also tens of millions of militia, who are not only armed, but more proficient with their weapons than your conscripts.
They’re not doing fine they’re literally being invaded, the fuck are these people even talking about. Ostriches with their head in the sand and brains about that size too
[Original post here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/12t2vmr/the_russian_political_government_in_action/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
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