Small turbo engines are making me hate driving stick

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itsamemarioscousin@reddit

If you're reaching redline and starting again in the next gear, there shouldn't be any hint of turbo lag. Modern engines in general, it's just not really there unless you're following the gearshift indicator on the dash religiously.

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Conch-Republic@reddit

Who bangs it off redline when driving normally?

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stakoverflo@reddit

They didn't say *banging it* off redline. But even if you're shifting ~5500 RPM that's still plenty high to still have power after shifting.

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usethisjustforporn@reddit

At 5500 in anything but first my golf is well above the speed limit anywhere in a 30 min drive around my house.

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CoyRogers@reddit

2011 miata, i do, cuz if i dont i cant keep up with the minivan next to me :) but seriously..... yes Redline every shift, that is normal for small engines that only produce power at the mid to higher end of the rpms

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IcameforthePie@reddit

At least once a day in my 328i. Multiple times a trip in the AP2. First gear in both cars is short enough to stay well below the limit but still enjoy a fun run into second.

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DebtsAndLessons@reddit

You don't need to bang it off the redline. Peak torque range typically starts at around 3500rpm in modern cars. OP is just used to NA engines

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S2kKyle@reddit

Depending on turbo size. My S2000 had a lot of lag if im not full throttle shifting. The Type R I daily doesn't have those issues.

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itsamemarioscousin@reddit

I'm not massively surprised about the S2000; it'd have been an aftermarket turbo and map, on a 20 year old car - sacrificing driveability for power for a niche within a niche clientele

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S2kKyle@reddit

It's because of the turbo size, not motor. The F20C will spool a turbo faster than the K20C. The turbo I have let's me make close to 1000 horse on the s2000, the Type R wouldn't be able to spool it even.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

That's what I'm saying, if you drive very aggressively then it's less of an issue (except for the massive rev hang that thing has), but when you're just having a bit of fun on your way to work without breaking too many laws, it gets annoying.

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Daedalus_Silver@reddit

Not sure what rpm you were shifting at, but my cars lag like hell if shifted under 4k ( one single turbo and 2 twin turbos ). But that's the nature of a turbo car, high rpm power. All turbos require the gas flow of high rpm to make boost and shifting opens the blow off valve so the boost disappears if shifted slow and low. If you want instant low rpm power you need to find something with a supercharger.

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CoyRogers@reddit

You should never shift till you are at redline anyway, its not 'aggressive driving' its NORMAL driving for a hot hatch turbo or not. ( and hatchback or not, just a term used for high revving cars that only produce power at the mid to high revs )

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kamakazekiwi@reddit

Yeah I honestly have to agree. I still love driving my R, but the turbo lag after gear shifts when just driving somewhat fast is irritating.

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tokyo_engineer_dad@reddit

That's crazy. DSG? My 2015 GTI with DSG felt super responsive and quick even just getting up to freeway speeds. And I didn't even have a tune. The turbo on the GTI is smaller but I didn't think it was that big of a difference.

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kamakazekiwi@reddit

Nope, manual. That's the biggest advantage of the DSG, it shifts so quickly that it actually maintains boost between gears. I'm happy with my decision to get a manual for a variety of reasons, but I'll never clown anyone for getting an R/GTI with the DSG. It's one of the best automatic transmissions you can get in that price range, whereas the manual is a mediocre afterthought of a gearbox.

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maranelloboy18@reddit

I wish I had gotten a DSG on my GTI, the 6MT is garbage. I’ve driven so many worse economy cars that have a better shifter and clutch than the GTI.

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kamakazekiwi@reddit

That's because it literally is an economy car transmission. They even include a "clutch assist spring" that pulls the clutch pedal towards the floor to make it less fatiguing to operate, at the expense of making it feel even more vague and disconnected. The clutch bleeder block also has a flow restrictor, which adds some lag to your clutch actuation. It makes the clutch operation harder to completely fuck up for people that don't know what they're doing, but it also makes smoothly shifting impossible when really hitting the gas. For me just having the manual in general is still worth it for the increase in driving engagement, but the manual really needs some mods to feel decent.

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APartyForAnts@reddit

Correct across the board, I had the spring and CDV insert removed within the first week of delivery on my R. There are other tweaks in OBD11 that somehow helped, I actually just disabled "starting vibration" last weekend and my wife, unprompted, noticed the difference from the passenger seat. "Why does your car suddenly drive so smooth?". Between a soft-ish driveline bushing set (with a dogbone insert), dual mass fly, bizarre software things, the CDV, assist spring, it's a rough introduction to the Golf R manual trans. With some simple tweaks it improves the car significantly.

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Ok-Accountant4383@reddit

What is this “starting vibration” you speak of? I have an OBD11 and I’ve never noticed it. Curious to know the diffrent it makes

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APartyForAnts@reddit

I did these two last weekend. I haven't tried launching because I never do anyways but it made the car feel smoother. Biggest thing I noticed is I used to get a sort of "pulse" to mid throttle accel in lower gears, and between shifts it used to feel like I had a much bigger lurch sensation on/off throttle. I noticed the pulse absense the most. Half throttle in 1st and 2nd not just feels smooth and linear, where before it felt like I was subtly pressing and lifting throttle during accel. Copy pasted direct from the forum I nabbed them from including the comments which are not mine. I can find the link if you need it. Starting vibration reduction. 03 Brakes -> Adaption -> Starting vibration reduction -> Old: Strong, New: Deactivated. Notes: Removes intervention during launch of car in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. Rough Road optimization. 03 Brakes -> Adaption -> Rough road optimization -> Old: activated, New: Not activated. Notes: This seems to have smoothed out 1-2 and 2-3 shifting a LOT. Will try some hard launches, and see if there are any differences in handling. If you haven't tried it yet, throttle mode changes the feel as well. Steering Assistance module (44). Security access 19249. Adaptations. Driving profile switchover. Change from 'Incremental: controlled over time' to 'Direct: controlled over threshold value'

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Ok-Accountant4383@reddit

Got it, that lurch when you get on/off throttle in mid gear that you’re talking about has always irked me a bit. I will have to look into this! I appreciate it!!

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APartyForAnts@reddit

Some of that is fixed by getting better driveline mounts, the dogbone insert alone was enough for me. The coding helped with shifting in some situations (for me), and made the in gear on throttle behavior better. I think it also eliminated the "clutch out throttle rise" it had from factory when leaving from a full stop. It no longer auto adds revs which feels way more natural to me.

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maranelloboy18@reddit

Yeah I’ve done all those. I really want to do shift bushings, short shifter and a weighted knob. I also have high expectations for manuals which doesn’t help, I learned to drive stick on an S2000 and beside a couple Miatas they’re the only manual cars I’ve ever owned until the GTI.

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WUT_productions@reddit

The engine can also know when to shift so it can do things like keep the throttle open in order to keep the turbo spinning. If I was buying a VAG car today I'd get the DSG. It's just so good.

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rjbwin@reddit

So good. DSG is phenomenal and pretty fun with the paddles. Coming from a manual, I sometimes miss rowing through the gears, but it’s so smooth and quick.

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smashingcones@reddit

The DSG in my Tiguan R is damn incredible..until you want to just cruise around and it gets all jerky at low speeds.

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tokyo_engineer_dad@reddit

I thought I was a clown for getting it. But damn it's so fast. And my wife being able to drive us home when I got drunk was nice.

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rugbyfiend@reddit

That’s why my wife practices every so often in my GTI. Wouldn’t want to lose the skills.

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wankthisway@reddit

Those cars were made with th DSG in mind honestly. The manual is an after thought in comparison.

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jbourne0129@reddit

It's a fantastic transmission honestly

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The_Exia@reddit

Its not that it shifts quickly to maintain boost, the ratios are shorter so it doesn't drop as many revs as the manual when an upshift happens.

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woodmanalejandro@reddit

get the DSG tune and it’ll be even better

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asshatnowhere@reddit

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too. Turbo lag at lower rpm is just part of the game. I learned to enjoy it. Like you said, you're not trying to go all that fast, so the delay in power is just part of the quirk of those engines. I loved short shifting in my WRX sometimes and just feeling the surge of the boost building gradually

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creep_nu@reddit

Love short shifting in my legacy gt too ...4th gear at 20 mph and just foot to the floor and let er rip to highway speeds...so satisfying.

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Kestralisk@reddit

My FA20 just lugged reading that

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

"I wonder how that yaris drives" *shifts at 3k rpm* "Probably something like that".

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CandlestickWick@reddit

I like the turbo surge too! I can't floor it in top gear at low speed though. The groups talk about damaging your pistons. I have a 2016 Fiesta ST. It has an overboost function and I actually feel that at less than full throttle. I think that might have been put in with a tune.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

...have you fun one gear lower then ?

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crispychicken49@reddit

In your defense most modern turbo engines feel like shit to rev out too. I don't want to take most turbo cars to redline because they're dead long before that.

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stakoverflo@reddit

> but when you're just having a bit of fun on your way to work without breaking too many laws It's a Civic Si dude, you can rev it out and still not break speed limits or barely break speed limits.

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lowstrife@reddit

> (except for the massive rev hang that thing has) The rev hang is a far bigger issue than any turbo lag when it comes to driving manual. I fucking hate rev hang. It forces you to drive in a manner of which makes it seem like you can't drive stick.

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foothilllbull530@reddit

Now I know it has a vacuum leak it shouldnt be rev hanging like that.

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obeythehypnotoad@reddit

I think you're conflating using the full rev range with being "aggressive". It sounds like you were just shifting too soon.

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davewritescode@reddit

Try giving it some more revs than you normally would, I think it’ll help

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LifeOnNightmareMode@reddit

It’s not really turbo lag when you shift (too) early.

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cilantno@reddit

My car has noticeable lag until 3.5k+ rpms, but shifting isn’t hard outside of 1 to 2 no matter the driving style, and VWs have not-so-great shifters. Probably just that you need to get used to the car itself.

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devilsrotary86@reddit

Yeah, from the description I personally smell Honda's typical overly conservative clutch delay valve than turbo lag.

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Euler007@reddit

Replace the throttle with an on/off switch at this point.

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DanielG165@reddit

Ahh, good ol’ turbo lag.

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driving_for_fun@reddit

Turbo lag is non issue in modern cars. Driving below the boost threshold is a user error. /s

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CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit

>Turbo lag is a non issue in modern cars. I'm always confused about this, turbo lag is very evident regardless of RPM in my Supra, compared to the supercharged S4. Turbo lag is just inherent to the design of exhaust driven turbocharged cars and while you can minimize it, it's always gonna be there.

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FroyoOk3159@reddit

I wish I had listened to my gut before I bought my b58. I saw this sentiment over and over, that “turbo lag is a non issue”.. it’s a huge issue for me. I want throttle response if I don’t have absolute power. After criticizing the b58, I’ll get comments like “what do you expect from a turbo engine, of course there is *some* lag”

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Deadhookersandblow@reddit

Well if the B58 turbo lag is a huge issue then yeah basically you need to go full EV. It has very minor turbo lag after which that engine just delivers shit loads of power and doesn’t let go. Pleasure to drive really.

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FroyoOk3159@reddit

Naturally aspirated with a linear torque curve would be ideal. The throttle response isn’t worth the weight, overheating or recharging for my wants. I just want a snappy, lightweight car. The b58 isn’t the worst, but there is definitely something missing vs a well put together v8.

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BuckTheFuckNaked@reddit

I used to have a B58. If you want instant release the only way to get it is to go EV, but then you have other drewbacks. No regrets though for day to day driving here.

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FroyoOk3159@reddit

Part of me could really enjoy the quietness of an EV for early mornings, late nights or even a spirited run that doesn’t attract attention.. and I do have a few superchargers in my area, but the charging and managing overheating to reduce lag is kind of meh for me still. Also for a tuner, you really can’t do much to an EV but shed weight at this point. I could spend another 20k on my car for upgraded turbos and really have a new car (with 700+ whp). Another $1200 will have a b58 at 475 whp easily, that’s already the performance of a stock M3, just less warranty lol. The i4 seems to be a real muscle car though. One thing I believe I read in a review was that the car cuts power around turns? It wouldn’t let you slide the car for example. I’m not some crazy racer/drifter but I enjoy a HPDE a few times a year.

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BuckTheFuckNaked@reddit

I haven’t noticed that, but I never go full throttle in turns. It would be pretty dangerous. I’d describe the i4 as a GT car. It handles very well for its size/weight, but it’s still 5000 lbs and I wouldn’t do HPDE in it. It’s the best daily I’ve ever owned by a long shot though, and still fun on the street. If I were still doing those events and had the garage space, I’d have an old well handling gas car that’s only used for that kind of thing in the garage, with the i4 as a daily driver. There’s also no need on the street to go full acceleration in a turn. Don’t forget that EV acceleration is instant. You can’t come into street turns too hot, but man can you ever come out of them! Charging has been no issue for us, mostly because we tend to stay within 8hr drive of our house (anything further and we’re flying). Day to day in the city it’s way better, leaving the house every day without having you ever stop to “refuel” And with the car at the ideal interior temp. Plus no wait for the drivetrain to warm up before you can punch it, just tires.

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FroyoOk3159@reddit

Vehicles have come a long way, my m240i doesn’t feel like a 3800lb car of yesteryear and I’m sure those 5000 pounds feels like less. But yeah that’s my problem with EVs.. the weight of an M240i/M340i already chews through consumables, they’re really not the car for anything more than the odd spirited drive or daily commuting. I’m the weirdo who you hear out at 4:30am on Sunday morning, I’ll blast for a few hours and then go fill up wherever I may be, so EVs require a complete lifestyle change for me personally.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

On other side N/A of even comparable power gotta set you back much more

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FroyoOk3159@reddit

Not initially for an American willing to drive American cars. There are some nice performance cars by Ford, Chevy and Caddy (although I don’t love the styling on many). The extra cost actually comes from how much extra you spend on fuel per year. I was cross shopping Mach 1s when I bought my M240 which had the same msrp with options. But realistically those V8s will suck double the fuel per year.

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dumbpatato@reddit

Exactly, the lag may be minimized but it’s there in every stock car with a turbo, my m4 and 911 are no different

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Useful-ldiot@reddit

The only thing I can think of is people that have never driven anything remotely fast before their turbo car. It's not turbo lag, that's just what a fast car feels like. That's really the only possible explanation for not feeling the lag.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

And it's very likely case, before the small turbo econobox craze going from say naturally aspirated 100-150 hp engine to turboed 250-300hp+ one was common path for enthusiast.

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MEatRHIT@reddit

So I have a 230HP turbo 4 and a 350HP NA V6 and honestly I've never really felt the turbo lag in the 4 when driving it aggressively it's only when I stomp on it in too high of a gear for the speed I'm going... and honestly it's the same with my NA engine. As long as I'm driving at 2-3k RPM both cars hit the floor running. I have driven a RSX type S and you had to rev the shit out of it to get any power down and was absolutely terrible to drive. Much different than my cousin's 70 Chevelle where you could basically light up the tires in any gear at any speed but the "lag" in most modern turbo cars is "yeah you're in the wrong gear" more that it takes a few seconds for the turbo to spool.

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dumbpatato@reddit

Yeah, I had the m5 and m3 before either of my turbo cars. Going from the m5 to m4 is a wild difference in power delivery even though both will put you back into your seat

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

Didn't some of the Hyundai N ones had [stock light anti-lag?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccMg-KzMgU8)

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dumbpatato@reddit

I didn’t know that, that’s pretty neat

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

Yeah, it's very unexpected, I'd think no company would do it purely because it might cause more warranty repairs, I guess the way they do it was deemed acceptable for it.

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morritse@reddit

The 3.0 in the b8 s4 is just such an insanely responsive engine that any turbo engine feels kinda sluggish next to it. Going from 3.0t to b58, only 2 things I miss are throttle response and supercharger whine

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1988rx7T2@reddit

Uhh have you ever driven a 90s or 80s turbo car? B58 has no lag in comparison

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WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit

It’s has less lag, not no lag.

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1988rx7T2@reddit

It’s a metaphor

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WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit

Might want to double check the definition of metaphor. Hyperbole? Exaggeration?

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randomman87@reddit

I think people conflate smooth power delivery with no turbo lag. I haven't driven the B58 but my N54 doesn't have noticeable (to me) turbo lag. But to be fair I've driven a few VAG 2.0T and I also didn't notice much, but they were the in-laws so not like I was punching them. I did test drive a 3rd gen Hyundai Tuscon with their 1.6T and it had horrible turbo lag, I crossed it off immediately. I would have gone for the base model 2.0 over it but they had a mid-cycle refresh and so we got the 2.4 instead. Yeah, the Theta II 2.4... d'oh

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DefiantLaw7027@reddit

I'd say there can be some noticeable lag in the N54. Especially if I'm in 3rd or 4th and cruising along at lower rpms and then punch the throttle. Takes a moment to build up the boost and then holy shit I'm in a rocketship. It's predictable though. Starting in first and accelerating from there is pretty smooth power-wise as I row through the gears.

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randomman87@reddit

That's true but that's more a transmission problem. From what I gather XHP stage 3 should take care of those concerns.

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DefiantLaw7027@reddit

For sure, I can just anticipate and downshift to avoid the lag. I'm keeping everything as stock as possible on it though.

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mammaliancochlea@reddit

>I'd say there can be some noticeable lag in the N54 I was cross-shopping a N54-based car (335i at the time) and an Audi S4 supercharged until I got to test drive them. The S4 was insane compared to the N54 because it had an instant response. No hesitation. Want power now? You got it, vs.... are you at the correct RPM? No. Ok. Wait! Then you got it. Honestly it's not a big deal on the track because there you're in the power band most of the time, but in city traffic there was a night and day difference. I still miss that instant response from the S4 when I drive my M4 (again, in city, trying to be civil).

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randomman87@reddit

We're talking about how bad turbo lag can be and you're just in here like "supercharger has instant power". Well obviously lol. That's literally the advantage of a supercharger.

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HanSolo71@reddit

I think the more boost you make the bigger the issue you see. Stock our N54 is pushing what 8PSI? Now that i'm at 25PSI on my N54 having a transmission tuned made a world of difference keeping boost consistent between gears. Small 4 bangers run pretty high boost so they may suffer more from "Turbo Lag". (Technically lag is the time for boots to start, not build full boost.)

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

> I'm always confused about this, turbo lag is very evident regardless of RPM in my Supra, compared to the supercharged S4 and yet everyone praises the B58 for having no turbo lag. Now imagine how much worse it was 20 years ago before twin-scroll turbos. That's kinda reference point game journalists are using when saying "no turbo lag".

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Deadlight44@reddit

I hate the modern cars for the lack of lag tbh. 1st boosted car I drove was a mx6 gt (ford probe turbo) and when I think turbo I think Saab 900 when it comes to lag. I want nothing and then all the fun! Had Gsx's back then, last turbo was an 04 S60R and still had the lag I like. Vw 2.0 tfsi suck, no real lag, To each thier own...

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MagicalSwagbat@reddit

My GR Corolla has a ton of turbo lag. Almost no power until like 3700-4000 rpm then it surges in power. It’s fun but can get old

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_The_Real_Sans_@reddit

Honestly I kind of like the peaky power delivery of the G16e over something like the more linear power delivery in the K20C1. It makes it fun coming into the midrange when all the boost hits and then subsequently trying to stay in the midrange to stay in boost when you're really getting on it. Sure it's not technically the optimal way to deliver power but it fits the character of the car very well Imo.

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flapsmcgee@reddit

You clearly haven't driven a modern wrx

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obsidianop@reddit

I have a 2013 with a manual and a turbo and I don't think it's turbo lag, I think it's a bad electric throttle. There's just this half second delay. You just kinda have to calibrate to it.

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morpowababy@reddit

*laughs in big ass N/A V8s*

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420bIaze@reddit

I have a big ass N/A V8. It's really slow at low RPM, the engine needs revs to make power.

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morpowababy@reddit

My truck engine shits out at 4300 rpm. OG heads just can't flow all the air the 409 wants past that

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FuckinSpotOnDonny@reddit

I'm liking my new 5.4L V8 taxi I didn't realise how fun even a low power V8 was until I got mine

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spekt50@reddit

Except that big ass N/A v8 is coupled to an 8 speed auto. A faily decent one at that.

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morpowababy@reddit

The even bigger one is hampered by a 3 speed auto but yeah, paddle shifts like a GT3 ;) Will be getting a manual big ass v8 track car someday but I won't be dealing with turbo lag in the meantime regardless. Just y'know, down 100 horsepower because I live high elevation

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thememeconnoisseurig@reddit

I vote Camaro

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deepaksn@reddit

Except the 10 speed is nothing short of amazing.

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thememeconnoisseurig@reddit

It sure is, but if I wanted a fast automatic I'd get a BMW. Nothing compares to that TR-6060 manual, especially when you drive it after test driving the MT-82 in the Mustang.

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ThePretzul@reddit

If you tune the ZF you can get shift times down to under 100ms which is pretty good, but even on the factory tune the aggressive mode is only ~120ms IIRC.

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morpowababy@reddit

I'm pretty sure the ZF in my charger is nearly the same thing as a BMW auto trans

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thememeconnoisseurig@reddit

It is but I like the BMW tuning not to mention the shift farts... I think the V8 torque is more fun with a manual.

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morpowababy@reddit

Oh it definitely farts in track mode lol

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MarshXI@reddit

Paddle shifts like a GT3 😂😂 I used to beat up on 8 speeds with a TR6060 scat.

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Hockeyfan_52@reddit

Idk about GT3 but the ZF 8HP in the Challengers is a lovely auto.

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morpowababy@reddit

Kinda funny that my 2.0T wrangler had a similar transmission, just wasn't the one built to take 485 hp

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Paschalls_Law@reddit

> paddle shifts like a GT3 [GT what now](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/041/444/sdc.jpg)

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probablyhrenrai@reddit

I mean, there *are* (were?) some new Challengers in the Trans Am series, proper race cars... but those are required to use 4-speed H-patters, so yeah, not even those I suppose, but closer than you might think.

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morpowababy@reddit

I can tell myself whatever I want and you can't stop me!

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YetAnotherAltTo4Get@reddit

Not if Chevy SS/G8/CTS-V1 😎

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mikeycp253@reddit

V8 gang checking in. No manual though sadly.

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morpowababy@reddit

I didn't know they made a 6.0 caprice tbh, dope. Also cool pickup

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penis-tango-man@reddit

Laughs in big ass N/A V8 with a manual

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smashingcones@reddit

Still feels sluggish below the torque curve. Wakes up after 3-3.5k though.

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Vultras@reddit

Yeah I've gotten looks just trying to keep up with minivans at red lights lol. Love it but definitely needs 3k to feel V8ish

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morpowababy@reddit

Noice

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quiksi@reddit

Laughs in lil’baby N/A V8 with a manual

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PimpDawg@reddit

Laughs in tiny V8 flat plane crank that revs to 8,900 RPM.

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ITMan01@reddit

I think supercharged V8 is the correct solution to employ here.

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morpowababy@reddit

Between turbo and supercharged I'd go with supercharger for sure, but I love all-motor vehicles. Shit, I already have a hard enough time keeping the 409 cool with its higher compression

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ITMan01@reddit

I hear what you mean but a supercharger kit for the scat of yours would bump it up to 600+. Ignoring forced induction is willfully leaving power on the table. If you can cram more air into your engine and have it react exactly like more displacement (with a PD), why not? My 662hp supercharged V8 feels exactly the same as a 662hp NA V8. Also nice collection, some cool cars there in your flair. 🇺🇲

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morpowababy@reddit

I like knowing that I have a shit ton of overhead without actually asking it of the engine. I built the AMC401 myself, the Hemi is obviously more complex but is still a pushrod V8. I have confidence in them being good workhorse engines that aren't pushed to their max. That being said it doesn't mean I can't appreciate them being improved on in other people's rides, I saw a procharged 6.4 and it was freakin hawt. Also while 662hp is awesome, and the 700 of a Hellcat, etc., that's all cool, but I don't think just because those exist that suddenly 485 N/A power isn't an awesome amount of power lol When the J10 is hauling a snowmobile up into the mountains lets not pretend I don't dream of some boost though... but I have to pass emissions and also I want it to work well in the summer and I'm worried boosting will bring a whole host of cooling problems And thanks! I've never been a Ford guy but I don't know why, I love all of their race stuff... and Bigfoot ;)

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ITMan01@reddit

Yessir I can feel you there. I guess some part of it is about the internals too though. If you run a 1000hp safe motor at 700 then you'd still have a ton of overhead. Even the ancient Trinity motor in my car can handle 900+ just fine, I'm sure the modern Hellcat engines can definitely handle over 1k. I'm not sure what the NA hemis are safe up to. Hahah we all have our brands sir, you'd call mine Found On Road Dead and I'd call yours Dead or Dying Garbage Emitter. It's all in good fun.

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morpowababy@reddit

I think the 6.4 is built well but already has high compression so what I've heard is about 8psi is your limit for being safe. The 6.2 had to be upgraded somehow for the 1000hp Demon but I don't think they were too specific on how. Its already all forged and all that, I think the 6.4 is as well, they all have 4 bolt mains... The AMC401 is known for its strength (higher zinc content in block, forged rods and crank) and torque output but it has 2 bolt mains. I guess in racecars they said they were great and leading the race easily up until the crank dropped out the bottom of it :) Someone will hopefully read this and school me

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ITMan01@reddit

Ah cool, yes I think for the high power engines they're using 6 bolt mains now. They're putting one in on each side too. And yeah those classic motors are bulletproof. I'd love a 77 Trans Am one day.

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morpowababy@reddit

They aren't air cleaner bolt proof, ask me how I know

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ITMan01@reddit

I'll bet that smacked it up pretty good inside.

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morpowababy@reddit

I had to get two cylinders sleeved and it was already 30 over so it went 40 over to 409. Which meant I couldn't get forged pistons unless I got them custom made, so probably no boost for me

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Liquid_Padpo@reddit

Depends on the V8, I love the LS platform when it comes to manual cars. That powerband Is really meaty in the 3-4000 range so if you're driving hard it makes it easy

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Sesspool@reddit

Laughs in supercharged v6

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blorpianblorp@reddit

No replacement for displacement.

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thememeconnoisseurig@reddit

🇺🇸🦅😁

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DatNaggaSouffle@reddit

Laughs in 3.7L TT V6.

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adamm1991@reddit

I don't know what boost lag OP was getting on a 1.4T golf because the turbo is about the size of a ping pong ball

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judy_loveU@reddit

I drove a Skoda 1.4t, the car is quite sharp and even pleasant to drive (I thought that 1.4 is too small) But I am scared of cars with such a small engine displacement and with a power of 150 hp.I think that the resource will be quite small.

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Blindman003@reddit

The si has no turbo lag, like none. Go drive an 80s or 90s turbo car. Those have lag. What you experienced was trying to drive the car outside of it's powerband. Boost builds fast on most of all modern cars now.

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FabulousNothing7079@reddit

The real problem here is that modern cars aren't very analogue anymore. What the OP is likely experiencing is a lack of response due to drive-by-wire, etc.

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

It builds fast, but it's not instant. It definitely doesn't feel like an NA engine. At all.

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spriggan4@reddit

Iirc pretty sure the 11th does. The 10th not really. Not instant but small compared to others.

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kb3_fk8@reddit

It’s the same powertrain between the 10th and 11th. If anything the 11th is tuned to be a little more stoplight happy and gets off the line a tiny bit quicker but loses some legs in between third, fourth and fifth gears. But we’re talking tenths of a second here. You would need to redesign the turbo and tube to get something better than what the 10th gens were. I swear ever since the 11th Gen Civics started looking like Jettas, everybody seems to think they are night and day faster than anything that came before. This isn’t like the 9th to 10th jump with the new turbo engines in the non type R beating the outgoing si.

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frankztn@reddit

This, drove my buddies WRX and I didn't understand how someone could enjoy driving it putting around town. lol.

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1988rx7T2@reddit

And when I got an EV my manual v8 Challenger felt “laggy” . It’s a matter of perspective.

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Steak_Break@reddit

I have no idea what he’s going on about. Can’t relate. My last two cars were a 5.0 GT with an MT82 and a GT350 with the TR3160, and now I’m dailying a Civic Si with its 6MT. It’s literally no more difficult, not even 1% more, to use than either of those cars. The lag is imperceptible. He might not have any understanding of boost threshold, which I think the majority of people on here confuse with lag.

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EAT-17@reddit

Granted the newer engines have much less lag, but you still vent pressure when shifting and loose boost. Something I never expected, but I have really come to like a turbo car with auto trans. At least on my one 28 year old car - the converter slip hides the lag in lower revs, and there is no loss of power when it shifts, it just keeps on pulling. Another car I am familiar with has a 1.4 turbo gdi. It has a lot of torque, but shifting is meh as you still have to wait a bit for the turbo to come back on. Not much, but enough. It is also a strange engine as it is both anemic and "powerful" (for 1.4) at the same time, so as op said, consistency is missing here. Supercharged would be probably better for that.

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BuckTheFuckNaked@reddit

Supercharged 1.4L would be terrible at low to mid RPM. It would feel like a dog.

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DriveFoST@reddit

Modern manual cars you can just tune for it, for instance using the Cobb accessport and using flatfoot tune settings. On my ST if I had accelerator at 100% and would shift, it would hold rpm’s at 5k keeping the turbo spooled up. You could change the value it would hold at and even running a bigger turbo on the car there was almost no lag

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int0xic@reddit

Do they not use diverter valves instead of venting to atmosphere?

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Kundwad@reddit

I'm pretty sure almost all stock cars do, but it really doesn't help that much. I might be wrong on some of the details but most of the boost comes in when the turbo is actively being spooled so to speak, which only is going to happen when the throttle is open and the engine is under load.

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rugbyfiend@reddit

I drove a lightly modified R34 GTR earlier this year. That was some experience in old school lag!

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GreasedLlama@reddit

This is one of the reasons why I love the twin turbo setup. No lag at all on the S55.

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2Stroke728@reddit

I fondly remember my buddy's 1989 Ford Probe GT in high school. We swapped vehicles often, so I put lots of hours in that one. Once you waited through the turbo lag you then got to deal with lane-change levels of torque steer. All while being slower than a modern day minivan.

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uglyugly1@reddit

Stop granny shifting and let it build some revs.

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birdman829@reddit

Lol yeah there's no way the turbo should have to spool again while upshifting unless OP is upshifting at 2800 rpm lol

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uglyugly1@reddit

But but he doesn't want to hit 3k like a pSyCHopAtH!!!

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ClownNoseSpiceFish@reddit

Me who shifts my fiesta st at 35-3700 when daily driving

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LuckyLogan_2004@reddit

Aren't you supposed to shift at redline? That's what I do on my motorcycle

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OutsideDragonfruit69@reddit

Depends on how your driving …shift at/before redline for speed …shift at 3k /under for gas saving lol

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R_V_Z@reddit

Your neighbors must love you.

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TAW242323@reddit

People who drive like that normally don't live to long so it's easy to wait them out. Source at least 4 so far.

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LuckyLogan_2004@reddit

Don't worry, we haven't talked in years

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PanVidla@reddit

No? Not when daily driving. The fuel consumption would be pretty crazy.

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boxingdude@reddit

LOL I drive an SRT8 challenger with the 6/M. When I'm shifting at 3500, it's getting sideways at the gear changes!

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jlo575@reddit

You must be one of only a few. I can’t even explain how bonkers it drives me when I see some turkey on a sport bike in the city shifting every 2 seconds to get to 50-60 kmh then cruising in 4th.

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LarsDragonbeard@reddit

I have a sports bike and a cruiser. When leaving a red light in the city, I'll shift every 2 seconds. 1st to 2nd after 2s, 2nd up to 4th or 5th (depending on the bike) when I hit 50 to reduce noise and fuel consumption. 0 to 50 doesn't take 4s on a bike with any kind of power...

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jlo575@reddit

Exactly who I’m talking about. So. Why?? Sport bikes make peak power at relatively high revs so why would you want to shift at low revs?

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LarsDragonbeard@reddit

I shift at high revs when I'm accelerating. I cruise at low revs, because I find it ridiculous to be screaming at 10k rpm when I'm just cruising a steady 50...

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jlo575@reddit

Fair enough. My irritation is with people who clearly have no idea of where the bike makes power and just ride like dummies.

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LuckyLogan_2004@reddit

i have a 250 so that may be why

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paradigmofman@reddit

On a bike sure. In a turbo car, it all depends on the size of the turbo attached to the engine. It's too early for me to remember all the mechanics of it, but basically with a small turbo on a 4 banger, there comes a point after a certain RPM that boost starts falling off and it's usually not redline. That when you want to shift to maintain max power. My Focus ST redlined at 6700 RPM, but boost started falling off at about 5900, so that was optimal for shifting to stay in the powerbamd for acceleration.

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noh-seung-joon@reddit

Keeps the valves clean

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KingGumboot@reddit

Same, but I'm currently riding a Suzuki VL250 so I don't really have a choice :D

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Neat-Bonus1440@reddit

lmao i shift at 4-5k when i daily my veloster n

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Saltwaterpapi@reddit

My Crosstrek feels lethargic until I hit 4k, you real have to rev small engines out.

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beh5036@reddit

I had an Evo for a while and it required you to shift that high. The turbo didn’t even still until 3500 rpm.

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PanVidla@reddit

How was the fuel efficiency at that RPM?

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beh5036@reddit

lol not very. It had no power down lower so that wasn’t any better. But it was not great any where you drove it. It was a 5 speed so at 70mph it was at 3500 rpm+. It got like 15 city, 25 highway. It didn’t help I drove with a heavy foot.

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PanVidla@reddit

That's 15 to 25 MPG or L/100km? I'm European, so I don't know if I should do the conversion, haha.

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obviouslybait@reddit

My old WRX STi was this way. No boost until 3500RPM

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kickassjay@reddit

Yeah I’ve got a hybrid wrx so it spools lower especially being a 2.5. But I still change gear at 3k on a slow cruise as the engine hates to be lugged

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ThenCompetition7@reddit

When did Subaru make a hybrid WRX?

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kickassjay@reddit

Typo. Was meant to say hybrid turbo 🤦🏽

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obviouslybait@reddit

Twin-scroll?

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kickassjay@reddit

Nope, 18g td04 hybrid running 320bhp. Spools around 2500 with max at like 3200 off top of my head

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Bartocity@reddit

2028

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slickwillymerf@reddit

2019 STI here and it hasn’t changed

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amishbill@reddit

Laughing my ass off as I remember having to get used to shifting at 9-10k on my motorcycle. Quite a jump from old, slow v8 sedans.

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romanz82@reddit

2018 rex same here It's been super hot lately too My boost been hiding from the heatwave lol

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70stang@reddit

Hell, my R32 has a NA 6 cylinder in it and I usually don't shift until 3500-4000 because that's where the torque and the sounds that make my monkey brain produce dopamine live.

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AggressiveFloor3@reddit

My dct left in auto doesn't shift until 3500 lol

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ThePretzul@reddit

When I had a 986S Boxster I’d rev it out to 4,000-5,000 somewhat regularly both because it sounded nice (not loud, just nice with the engine right behind your head) and because it was pretty darn anemic down low in the range.

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fartpeeass@reddit

me who shifts my eos at 4000-5000 daily driving

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sirhamsteralot@reddit

RX8 gang here, what is any rpm below 6k even?

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Gasstationdickpi11s@reddit

Me too 😂 gotta avoid that LSPI at all costs

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Mat_is_Best@reddit

I often redline my civic before shifting to 3rd gear.

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The_Crazy_Swede@reddit

Who in their right mind shifts at under 5k? /s

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

Me, banging revs off the 8k limiter: 😌

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Call4God@reddit

Me, money shifting to 13k: 😬

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onyourrite@reddit

Rookie numbers *laughs in money-shifting my EG6 in Roblox and grenading the engine*

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tsmac@reddit

Don't sell yourself short. Fuel cutoff isn't until 8200

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one-more-shit-civic@reddit

Hahahahah hey payed for the whole tacho, and its using ot all the way to 2500 rpm

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011011010110110@reddit

nvm that redline isn't til 6,500

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MrRosentodd@reddit

OP has apparenly never ridden a 2-stroke dirtbike 😂

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Grand_Ride_7029@reddit

Maybe he should buy a diesel… than he can shift at 2000rpm

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bdubz325@reddit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless of the rpm/acceleration, when I shift and the blow off valve dumps the extra pressure, doesn't it have to spool back up again regardless?

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birdman829@reddit

Not really, the compressor wheel has inertia and doesn't slow down that fast. If it was spinning at 20k rpm under full boost it will barely slow down in the time it takes to shift a gear. The boost will be back again nearly instantaneously in a modern small turbo car shifting while at max boost

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TwoPlanksOnPowder@reddit

Even in my previous Mk7 Golf R, which is fairly laggy for a modern turbo engine, I could shift at 2500 and not experience any lag around town. Not really sure what OP is on about.

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theNightblade@reddit

Even still, the peak torque for the 10th and 11th gen Si is at about 2200rpm so the boost is on early

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CanIstickitin78@reddit

The torque peak rpm doesn't have anything to do with lag time

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theNightblade@reddit

If it's near peak torque it's not going to feel laggy

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CanIstickitin78@reddit

Once again, one does not negate the other

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PEBKAC69@reddit

Negate? No. But RPM and lag time are absolutely related. And the math is gross

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levinano@reddit

You're both correct. RPM is directly related to turbo lag. A turbo is literally powered by exhaust gases, and at lower RPMs, you have less exhaust flowing, hence less turbo spinning. Though this isn't directly related to "peak torque." Let me give an example. My STI's torque raises and flattens out at around 3.8k, dips, then actually peaks at 4.7k, and continues to fall till 6.7k. In this case, I'm entering my "near-zero turbo lag zone" starting at 3.8k RPM, but that's 1k under my "peak torque." Either way, I honestly think OP is just driving turbo cars wrong. His idea of "not driving it like a psychopath" probably means he's consistently out of the power band and is never in the "boost zone" of his revs. As a owner of an STI and a 370z, I can tell you that while in the "boost zone," the turbo lag is near non-existent and is just as fun to drive as the Z. The Z, on the other hand, I can be cruising at 2k, see a yellow light, and floor it and it'll give me crazy power right then and there. On the STI I would have to downshift :p

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Moist_onions@reddit

>RPM is directly related to turbo lag. A turbo is literally powered by exhaust gases, and at lower RPMs, you have less exhaust flowing Sorry but i gotta correct you on this. It is not the RPM that builds boost, but rather the expansion on the exhaust gases going through the turbine wheel that builds the boost. Otherwise your boost pressure would forever increase with RPM.  >My STI's torque raises and flattens out at around 3.8k, dips, then actually peaks at 4.7k, and continues to fall till 6.7k. In this case, I'm entering my "near-zero turbo lag zone" starting at 3.8k RPM, but that's 1k under my "peak torque." Wouldn't that example you provided show that it is not RPM that builds boost? If it were then there should be no dip of torque in the middle of the rev range.

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levinano@reddit

I never said RPM builds boost... the entire time I was talking about the "boost zone," or everything else I said, was all about *turbo lag,* not boost. Boost is measured in pressure, turbo lag is measured in seconds. It's not that "boost rises with RPM," but that "turbo lag decreases with RPM." At high RPM, the only reason you can have non-positive boost is because the wastegate is bypassing all the exhaust gases past the turbo and directly into the downpipe. However, the moment you punch it, the wastegate can close, the engine creates the pressure, and you can build boost extremely fast. Compared to being at low RPM, even if the wastegate closed, you still won't be getting any boost due to simply not enough exhaust gas flow. The time it takes for your turbo NA engine without the turbo to build enough exhaust for the turbo to spool is what "turbo lag" is.

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2Ca7@reddit

Depends; AMG cars use an electrical motor to spin the spinny boi at the low RPMs where the exhaust gases don’t !

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CanIstickitin78@reddit

I never said they were not related. I said that the peak torque rpm and lag time are not related.

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randomman87@reddit

You would assume peak torque at 2200rpm would mean no lag. But if it takes 2-3 seconds to rev up from \~1000rpm to 2200rpm then there's A LOT of lag. So as other poster said low peak torque RPM doesn't mean there's no lag.

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need2fix2017@reddit

No turbo that produces positive pressure at 2200 rpm can be called “laggy”.

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TheGirlWhoLived57@reddit

Thank you. If the turbo is making boost at 2k rpm it’s not fucking laggy.

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ThePretzul@reddit

It’s not laggy, it’s just tiny.

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That_Fix_2382@reddit

Holy shit, who shifts such that the next gear is at 1000 rpm! THAT is being a lunatic! :-)😀

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

...a diesel owner ?

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That_Fix_2382@reddit

Well played, sir

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

Also if you're at 2200 rpm and low engine load (say cruising), you aren't producing much gasses and aren't spooling the turbo

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OrionsTieClip@reddit

Exhaust gas need to physically get the impeller spinning, regardless of the RPM the engine is sitting at. The engine could be at 6000 RPM, but the turbo could be at 0 and need to get to 14,000

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Location_Born@reddit

I think you’re missing a 0

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monobr@reddit

Missing a 0 and the turbo isn’t going to be at 0rpm when the engine is doing 6000, it might not be making boost but it’s spinning.

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spddemonvr4@reddit

It's only near peak torque when going from idle. If you're cruising at 2200rpm, the turbos are in vacuum and doing zero. There will always be a lag from when the car goes from a cruising idle to build boost.

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Sonoda_Kotori@reddit

Nope, peak torque has nothing to do with lags or not. If you upshift early regardless, you'll drop out of peak torque (aka boost buildup) range anyways.

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EntroperZero@reddit

Peak torque on a dyno plot may appear at 2000 rpm, when the dyno is holding the revs low while it builds boost. That doesn't mean there's no turbo lag if you open the throttle at 2000 rpm.

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thisisjustascreename@reddit

Yeah you're only gonna see that 2200 rpm torque peak if you have a brake dyno that holds the engine at an rpm value. On a rolling dyno odds are good you don't even start the run below 3k.

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thisisjustascreename@reddit

Do you know what turbo lag is? If you mash the gas at 2200 rpm you aren't getting peak torque until the turbo spools.

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Captain_Alaska@reddit

I mean, it does, the lower the boost threshold the quicker it spools, the two are proportional to each other.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

Spool speed is essentially volume of gasses getting pushed to turbo. Volume of gasses produced is related to efficiency and power at given RPM Which is *essentially* horsepower. So you need to look at horsepower curve for that, where the peak of torque is isn't really relevant.

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CanIstickitin78@reddit

Spool rate has everything to do with exhaust volume and velocity (and of course turbo size)which is weakest at low rpm. The torque peak is kept artificially low by the computer and the size of the turbo. Step on the gas at 2000rpm and it will lag. Step on it at 5000 rpm and the lag will be much much less and likely the electronic throttle programming will be worse than the actual lag. It's as real as reading about any article on a turbo car with a low rpm peak torque like say a S3. They all commented on low rpm lag.

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Captain_Alaska@reddit

> Spool rate has everything to do with exhaust volume and velocity (and of course turbo size)which is weakest at low rpm. The torque peak is kept artificially low by the computer and the size of the turbo. Right, so you’re agreeing with me. Turbo size affects both boost threshold and boost lag, which is basically what I said. Vehicles with low RPM boost thresholds will generally have shorter spool times because the turbo will be smaller.

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CanIstickitin78@reddit

No. You are twisting what I said and making it fit your narrative. You're also assuming "boost" is the name of the game when the reality is its volume of air. But that's a little but of a different conversation.

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PoutineBoi@reddit

Exactly, my MINI's peak torque comes at 1600rpm but im not building any boost below 2500 lol

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412gage@reddit

That's kinda where I shift when dailying my NA 2.5l Mazda3. If you go too high, then rev hang makes it so that you had to literally do it slower.

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Organic-Nose-3529@reddit

Plot twist: He is shifting at redline, but he takes 4 seconds between gears.

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kne0n@reddit

Thats what made a manual deisel VW so fun, low end torque made even low shifts great

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wundeyatayetyme@reddit

I only floor it at 500-100 rpm. My car has no power!

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TechEdison@reddit

This. If he drives an NA like that it's not any more happy than a turbo car would be, they just don't pull timing to prevent it from exploding like a turbo car would at those RPMs.

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mcpatsky@reddit

And not double clutching like you should

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ShowerChivalry@reddit

Not double clutching like you should

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phucyu142@reddit

There's no need to double clutch. That's why syncros were invented.

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deepaksn@reddit

Well… true.. but your synchros will last a lot longer if you double clutch.

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CandlestickWick@reddit

I find myself doing somewhat of a double clutch but pushing the clutch halfway pulling out of gear and fully disengaging going into gear. But, then again, I used to drive Big Truck so, I know how to float. I can actually float in my Fiesta ST when I'm roaming around in my neighborhood. I had to learn to float the gears because when I pushed in the clutch, the air-ride seat raised up so much, I couldn't push far enough.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

> I had to learn to float the gears because when I pushed in the clutch, the air-ride seat raised up so much ...why your seat raises when you press the clutch ?

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ThePretzul@reddit

Because air-ride seats in big rigs are floaty as hell by design. The truck doesn’t have shit for suspension travel, so the seat is essentially the entire suspension in many of them. As a consequence if you press down hard on the clutch pedal, it will lift your seat up because there’s less pressure to keep it compressed down.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

Thanks for info, didn't knew that! That reminds me of my dad's farm tractor, the thing needed so much force on clutch the kid me had to use entire body weight to clutch in..

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Wabbit_Wampage@reddit

Dom told me otherwise. Are you calling him a liar??

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blue_horse_shoe@reddit

https://youtu.be/9hoEYaLuDdc?si=RT36uEa4Uq8SoXmf

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sstinch@reddit

Winning is winning

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FiveseveN45@reddit

"It's not how you stand by your car. It's how you race your car. Better learn dat'."

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Sun_Aria@reddit

Noooo! Monicaaaa!

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FiveseveN45@reddit

🤣

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deepaksn@reddit

Family

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nycmonkey@reddit

Just made sure your double shot of NOS doesn't break the welds on the intake

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rood_sandstorm@reddit

Danger to manifold intensifies

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deepaksn@reddit

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAWS!!!

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racer_24_4evr@reddit

Now me and the mad scientist got to rip apart the block and replace the piston rings you fried.

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Sendit57@reddit

Get a tune with flat foot shifting and just never lift!

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justaverage@reddit

Used to do this with a MK I MR2…it…wasn’t good for the car

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rackyoweights@reddit

That poor 4AGE

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Deadlight44@reddit

My mk2 Supra throttle would stick at wot and have this effect, really moved. Probably why I went through some resr diffs though...

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

I don't think you're talking about same thing. He's talking about tune that will keep your revs at current level when you clutch in. So if you're at say 6k rpm with 7k redline and clutch in, engine RPM will stay at 6k. Now you will still have mismatch but smaller. That's a crude version of revmatching on upshift some fancier cars do nowadays, and it's done that way coz its easy (ECU doesn't need to know gear ratios to know to what rpm set the engine speed.

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number1likemcgrady@reddit

granny shifting, not double clutching like you should (sorry, had to)

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ReaperThugX@reddit

Not double clutching like he should

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skyshock21@reddit

For real. You gotta learn to blip the throttle and rev match my dude.

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USA-cubicle-worker@reddit

Imagine coming online to tell everyone he shifts like a bitch and it's the engines fault!!!! EVERY TIME I UPSHIFT AT 800RPM MU CAR STALLS. FUCKING DAMN TURBO ENGINES!!!!!

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OutsideDragonfruit69@reddit

Gotta shift towards the end of your “power band”

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aaffpp@reddit

Question: I don't understand why in this day and age turbo systems are sill dependent on exhaust gas. This causes lag. Why not have a brush-less electric motor and impeller turbine blade design for immediate boost.

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420bIaze@reddit

Because exhaust gas is free waste energy, an electric motor requires energy input for a charging system and weight.

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markeydarkey2@reddit

Spooling the turbo with exhaust gases is part of why turbos are used in the first place, it improves efficiency by making use of energy that would otherwise be wasted.

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monobr@reddit

With the amount of electric power you need to spin up a turbo, you might as well just use it to power the wheels.

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Jimbenas@reddit

Unnecessary complexity. Small turbos spool fast anyways.

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surf_greatriver_v4@reddit

This tech does exist to pre-spool the turbo. But when it comes to it, it just isn't beating exhaust gas

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Kundwad@reddit

I think about this a lot as well. I think part of the reason is that turbos are on paper more economical because they "make up" for the heat loss in the in the combustion process. Another thing is that I'm not sure if something small like a starter motor could actually the impeller to high enough rpm so it would have be part of a hybrid system. Would make a ton of sense in a hybrid turbodiesel setup, since it's said that turbos and electric motors don't get along since normal turbochargers like engine load and electric motors get rid of it. They do use them in F1 for what it's worth.

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aaffpp@reddit

someting like this https://duryeatechnologies.com/duryea-electric-supercharger/

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Tough-Relationship-4@reddit

You need to rev it out. Quit econo shifting

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ToxicEvHater@reddit

Stop driving like a grandma

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MRoss279@reddit

It's a Honda you gotta shift at redline

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kb3_fk8@reddit

Well if you’re going to drive slow then yeah you might lose boost.

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ChancesLowButNotZero@reddit

GFB makes an attachment for the turbo blow off valve. It passively closes the blow off valve and reduces turbo lag.

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BoogaBoy223@reddit

Lmfao don't use the clutch you won't have that problem

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SirRelu@reddit

OP skill issue

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MK_oh@reddit

Can you imagine drive a CRV with a stick lol These lawn mower turbo engines are all junk tbf

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Mycooleraccount456@reddit

I beg of you to shift at higher RPMs. Driving like that is so much fun that even if you did somehow damage your transmission it'd be worth it to buy another one just to have that kinda fun

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Mycooleraccount456@reddit

I beg of you to shift at higher RPMs. Driving like that is so much fun that even if you did somehow damage your transmission it'd be worth it to buy another one just to have that kinda fun

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ruturaj001@reddit

Pretty much why I separated utility and fun into 2 cars. My fun car needs to be RWD, NA, manual and lightweight, 2 fit the bill, Miata and GR86/BRZ, I have later. My utility vehicle is still kind of fun as well, it's a Kia stinger (my utility needs are not much more than being able to haul 2-3 people).

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phorkin@reddit

This is the epitome of someone with a low driving skill. I've driven all types of 4 pots with turbos. Even a k24 with a 88mm pushing over 700hp. If you can't keep it in boost when shifting, you aren't driving it for performance at all. Will you lose boost on shift, most tunes will open the reciec/bov on throttle release but you don't just magically lose your spool speed. You're either shifting like my dead grandmother, have a wickedly oversized intercooler/piping system, or aren't actually driving a turbo. Even the 1.5l in the newer Si is easy to shift smooth AND stay in a decent amount of boost without beating the piss out of it.

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sarcasmyousausage@reddit

You drive cars "for performance" going to work?

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phorkin@reddit

The point is, you don't have to drive the shit out of any modern turbo 4 to stay in boost. For performance doesn't mean you're ringing out every last inch pound of boost. It means you're shifting quick enough to not drop out of boost and to basically idle ignition timing. Today's modern turbos aren't dropping boost in a 2 second normal shift. You don't need to double clutch, rev match, etc like you did in the 1970s. Synchronized transmissions, ECU tables designed for rev hang to make shifting even easier, and even auto-blip setups make shifting even easier. Slamming the clutch in and waiting until you're idling to shift into the next gear is not performance at all, it's anti-performance and actually drops fuel mileage, increases wear, and is just plain poor driving.

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fatruss@reddit

Shift harder faster better and get back to us

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Mikhail_Dixon@reddit

All these whiny people. You get a turbo car to have power and fuel economy. If you want to get into the power band, drop a gear and go. It used to be that there were only 4 gears for manuals, then came 5, then 6, and even 7 now. So getting into the power band is easier than ever today but got these people who want to complain. Get a tesla if you want instant power on demand.

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MaxWebxperience@reddit

My twin turbo 4cyl with automatic is great to drive. One turbo is for the lower rpm apparently

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EndlessEndeavoring@reddit

My bronco sport 1.5 starts boosting at like 1500. It doesn't come in stick but you can still hear it in bypass valve when you snap the throttle shut. Every time I back up my drive I hear it. There's no way similar engines don't have equally small turbos in order to build boost early and get any sort of torque out of such a small engine. Granted it was a Honda but my s2000 saw 9,000 rpm multiple times a day and vtec didn't even kick in until 5k if I recall correctly. Give it some revs and you won't be having to build boost between shifts. "Granny shifting, not double clutching"

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RocketGuy3@reddit

I question how you're shifting, but I also wonder if rev hang is playing a role. From my understanding, rev hang is REALLY bad on a lot of small turbo 4s.

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PhilSheo@reddit

If you consider them laggy, you should've driven turbo cars in the 1980s. I had two - a 1985 Nissan 300ZX Turbo and a 1987 Mazda 626GT. You made an appointment for boost. Honestly, I kind of thought that made them more fun. Even my 2002 Audi TT Roadster 225 was WAY worse than today's cars with respect to lag.

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MiloRoast@reddit

You should check out used Veloster Ns or the Elantra N if you're down with a sedan. They have built in anti-lag that is fantastic. That's really what the exhaust pops and crackles are for - it's just a side-effect of the anti-lag.

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The_Exia@reddit

Maybe upshift at higher revs? You can't shift it like a V8 at 1800rpm. I owned a '23 Integra and it was the slowest car i've ever owned. I didn't feel slow driving it, it felt peppy. The ratios are very close, that as soon as your on the throttle I was at 3k and shifting was a non issue because I was always in the boost. I"m not sure how slow you'd have to be driving the car to complain about the lag with such close gear ratios in the Si and Integra and the very quick throttle response. I had no issue puttering around town in the Integra, not driving aggressively, and always feeling like I was hauling ass (even though I wasn't, yay 200hp).

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eatallthecoookies@reddit

Modern turbo engines can definitely shift like v8 or lower. The 1.0 tsi dsg shifts between 1400 and 1600 and you already feet the torque from turbo. There is sometimes about 0.2 sec delay for it to spin up

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The_Exia@reddit

This entirely depends on the engine and when the turbo kicks in. The current WRX as an example feels anemic until you hit 2500+ rpm, you can shift at 1800 if your just puttering around and going 30 miles an hour but if you want even a little bit of acceleration the boost doesn't kick in until much later. The Si and Integra feel very peppy and responsive even at 1500rpm. Some turbos can be lazily shifted, others can't even modern ones.

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Steak_Break@reddit

This mirrors my opinions having owned slow and fast 6MTs with NA V8s and now having the 23 Si. Easy to drive at all speeds and responsive across the board, at least above boost threshold at about 1800rpm. If anything, shifting between 1200-2000 while driving slowly is even easier because the engine speeds drop very quickly between gears at those levels

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Christdeliverme@reddit

This is why I V6 everything and put a huge turbo on it. I can drive like a normal humanbeing, still get 150-180 wheel torque out of it outside of boost depending on displacement. Then party if I want to stay in it.

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EPIC581@reddit

Sounds like you want something supercharged

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BloinkXP@reddit

I grew up driving stick and sporty cars...turbo engines are meant to rev...period. You'll get use to the car and not even notice it. If you are granny shifting and in the city...get an auto.

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Normally_aspirated@reddit

Normally aspirated all the way

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snubda@reddit

It’s naturally aspirated lol

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marimbloke@reddit

Nonchalantly aspirated

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_The_Real_Sans_@reddit

Ordinarily motivated

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boomerbill69@reddit

I’ve got a 1.4T Jetta and a NB Miata. It’s like night and day with the level of responsiveness. At the same time…who cares? You’re missing the point of the smaller, non-performance turbo engines. You’re supposed to drive them like a third world taxi driver and shift it at 2k RPM. I agree it’s more of a problem in a car like a newer Si, which is why that car *does* encourage you to drive like a psychopath.

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Starberrys@reddit

Having owned an Evo, Type R, and now GR Corolla, I think what youre experiencing is slow throttle response. The Evo definitely had turbo lag, but the Type R had little turbo lag. It's the throttle response that made it feel laggy. Try putting the SI in sport mode and druve around town like you did.

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disgruntledempanada@reddit

I think you might be also confusing rev hang for this. Rev hang is a huge drivability issue. It's there to ensure complete burn of fuel after the throttle is cut off but it makes revs refuse to fall between gears, exacerbating turbo lag if you're trying to shift smoothly and not have the car jerk into the next gear due to the revs not matching the wheel speed of the next gear. The Civic Si has the worst rev hang I've ever experienced.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Rev hang certainly did not help. Overall I was just disappointed. When flooring it the Si is a lot of fun. But when just driving around town, I hated the manual transmission experience

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Steak_Break@reddit

Might be an acclimation issue. I’ve driven several manuals and owned multiple on a personal level and my ‘23 Si’s entire shifting experience is extremely intuitive, at any speed

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Duckroller2@reddit

When I was shopping for a new car I found the rev hanging and clutch feel just weren't for my on the civic SI. FWIW I found the manual Forte felt much better. The revs still hang longer than the NA 4-banger cars I've driven, but in sport mode it dumps pretty fast and in normal mode it dumps fast enough for leisurely shifting.

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erikpurne@reddit

I used to drive with the a/c off even when it was hot for the extra power. Now I drive with the A/C on even when it's cold because the extra load helps eliminate the goddamned rev hang.

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bigloser42@reddit

Modern cars have a clutch that disconnects the A/C when you call for max power, no need to shut it down for more power.

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BuckTheFuckNaked@reddit

They also use variable compressor AC units so it only pulls as much draw as necessary.

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driving_for_fun@reddit

You haven’t had the pleasure of driving a low power, high revving car. The A/C power loss is noticeable all the time.

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EntroperZero@reddit

Turbo lag is turbo lag, sure rev hang might be making it worse, but it's still turbo lag.

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TwinGorillaz@reddit

It sounds like your just daily driving it and expecting it to fly. It’s a turbo, you have to actually get the engine into boost

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humjaba@reddit

This is one thing I think Ford does surprisingly well. You’d think the low-compression 2.7L v6 in my f150 would be a complete turd until boost hits, but somehow the throttle response is still pretty good. Maybe it’s the tuning, maybe you just need to rev it higher

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Nyelz_Pizdec@reddit

try something with a twin scroll turbo. very fast spool times.

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ilikethatstock69@reddit

I’ve got a mustang ecoboost with the 2.3 turbo. I find it very predictable and torquey, not quite as much as my previous tdi. I still shift at a little over 2k rpm driving around town though and never had the feeling of waiting for it to spoil back up.

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semi_committed@reddit

I had a VW TDI and that power band is TINY lol - but the fleeting moments of blissful boost are worth it.

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Brilliant-Impact9700@reddit

Lookup my community. Directquestions

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thevictor390@reddit

My 0.6T is extremely consistent.  What, you said "small."

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Sghtunsn@reddit

I used to have an r/C car that was a Mitsubishi Pajero on the box, but I lived in the US where the Pajero is called the Mitsubishi Montero, so just out of curiosity do you live in the US or elsewhere?

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thevictor390@reddit

I live in Massachusetts. The car is from Japan, but the "Pajero Mini" only shares a name with the Pajero, it's really more of a rebodied Minica.

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SpaceBoJangles@reddit

He didn’t say microscopic. Nothin but love though.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Consistently slow?

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jawnlerdoe@reddit

Fast. For a car in the 1920s!

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Fukurou83@reddit

Well, always having to be in the redline may help !

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Bizzzle80@reddit

Modern cars rarely have that bad of turbo lag.. gotta hit them rpm’s

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Vitvang@reddit

Turbo lag isn’t a thing anymore dude. It’s not 1987 with your dodge lazer. You just don’t know how to shift.

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OllieZ@reddit

I actually enjoy the dramatics of turbo lag. Like most people are saying, you can keep that turbo spooling and completely mitigate lag

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gunnermcgavin@reddit

Turbo cars need to be wrung out a bit. I love my turbo fours, but still love my pokey Crosstrek 6MT.

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loupr738@reddit

Damn, that’s a bummer. I eventually wanted a WRX and "back in my day" it would engage the turbo around the 4500rpm range making that you can still shift around 3000 without getting that pull

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solo118@reddit

Vtec kicked in yo

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SquareTarbooj@reddit

I drive a turbo manual VW 1.5 TSI. I partly agree with you that it's not as nice as an NA, but it's not terrible once you get used to it. You DO have to shift a lot more as you have a narrower powerband, which can be annoying/fun depending on how you look at it. The more you drive, the more you get used to the engine's character and knowing when to shift to keep yourself in the powerband you want for the situation.

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MaximumDerpification@reddit

I have a turbo 1.5 Civic 6sp and don't even notice the lag, the turbo is so small it spools basically instantly... my last turbo 4 was a WRX, now that thing had a bit of lag (and then was damn quick when it got into boost). I also have a Ktuner, catless DP and a TSP tune which I've been using since I first got the car, maybe the mods mitigate things a bit and I just don't remember what it was like before...

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DaBombDiggidy@reddit

Two big differences creating the feel OP is talking about. \- 2.0l+ turbo engines made a lot more torque on their own than the current 1.4/1.5ls. it's a helluva "feel" difference when driving in traffic and around town. \- throttlebody > drive by wire change makes many cars feel laggier as they are.

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BuckTheFuckNaked@reddit

That’s why the 6 and 8 cylinder modern turbo engines feel pretty good. You have enough torque before spooling that you don’t feel slow off the line.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

> throttle body > drive by wire change makes many cars feel laggier as they are. That's actually a software issue, they just add a lot of input filtering/smoothing on throttle so average driver doesn't hop around wildly. I think on one of Rob Dahm videos he was tuning the throttle and showed how unfiltered ones look like and it was SUPER responsible but also slightest change had instant effect so there was a lot of hopping on non-WOT. It basically pulled the leg back when gently pressing because it accelerated, that made it go lower on throttle, that made engine break, push on throttle again and hence hopping. Modern ECUs are set to filter that but obviously some go overboard with it.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

It's not like the lag is massive, but going back and forth between a higher displacement NA engine and the small turbo engine, you immediately notice how much more predictable and intuitive it is to row gear on the NA engine. My opinion at least. If the Si had a K24, we wouldn't be having this discussion, I'd be driving it right now.

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tacoswithants@reddit

I'm pissed Honda/Acura went with the 1.5t for BOTH the Si and the Acura Integra. At least the ILX had the DCT and the K24 and I think at one point it had a 6sp manual.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

I'm not surprised though. Same engine as the CR-V and Accord, meaning economies of scale. The K24 was probably getting harder to get certified for modern emissions and fuel economy standards across the world. This is the world we live in. Wish they'd just do a detuned 2.0T from the Type-R. They had it in the Accord until recently.

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Specialist_Duty5736@reddit

> Wish they'd just do a detuned 2.0T from the Type-R. extra 50hp would be nice upgrade for Si that's 200hp since the 8th gen...

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Vegas22lr@reddit

2.0t in an si coupe would be amazing.

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Vegas22lr@reddit

Exactly, 18 si here... If I am driving sporty there is zero lag. The only issue is power tapers off near redline. Down low is where the turbo shines.

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MaximumDerpification@reddit

I miss my SE-R Spec-V... it would still be my DD if some teenager hadn't run a red light and t-boned me. It was a great little car.

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Vegas22lr@reddit

Same but between the header and intake I was chasing ghosts getting it to pass smog. Loved that car and drove it hard.

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phorkin@reddit

I can say, the VB and the FA24 basically eliminates that little lag they had before. The Si, those boost like my old Focus ST did. Hell, after being tuned and FBO my ST would spool 15lbs if I farted on the throttle at 2500rpm lol

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weristjonsnow@reddit

Had an 06 wrx that I put a little money into. Was running about 14 pounds of boost on that guy.. It went from feeling like you were sitting still with your foot on the floor to getting hit in the back of the head when the turbo spooled. It was such a difference it was actually kinda funny

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manesag@reddit

Same, I’m fully stock and don’t notice any lag at all

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blindeshuhn666@reddit

Never try Renaults 0.9 TCe engine. Very bad turbo lag , but it gets even worse with AC on. (Only a 90bhp engine , but it's okay for small cars that weigh 1000kg or less for everday Drive in European cities

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gainzsti@reddit

Ok ok. Whose turn it is now to explain boost threshold and lag?

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Followyourtroves@reddit

Check the wrx.

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CodewortSchinken@reddit

I occasionally drive a 2009 A3 with the 1.4 tfsi. These engines absolutely do have their problems. The power delivery however is my least concern. Considering the displacement and power output the turbo lag is minimal. The boost hits nice and smooth exactly where you need for daily driving. Sounds like you are shifting way too early. As soon as the engine is up to temperature I basically don't drive it below 2000rpm.

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JustShitpostingXd@reddit

Owner of a Twincharged VW Golf here, no idea what you're talking about All I know is that my car pulls the same at any revs

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fantaribo@reddit

Definitely exaggerating on this one.

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maximus129b@reddit

I really want Corolla GR(if I find one and convince my wifey to learn stick), but coming from 3.7 vtec I’m sure there will be an adjustment.

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SwissMargiela@reddit

This is why I prefer supercharged vs turbo for my S2k. The turbo is much faster but the linear powerband is really nice with super chargers.

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KungFuActionJesus5@reddit

Supercharger supremacy needs to return. They are so much cooler than turbos.

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DH64@reddit

I love my turbos tho :(

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

I feel like the s2000 is best served NA. You can bore and tune for a tiny bit more power. To me the K engines felt far more suited to forced induction

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SwissMargiela@reddit

Currently I’m not running too much boost so I’m at about ~350 whp and it honestly feels amazing. Feels just like stock, but with a bit more umph. I have 9” wheels in the front and 11” in the back and the car feels so planted it’s insane. I can barely spin the wheels.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Nice, if I may ask what tires do you run? And does it hold up well on the track?

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SwissMargiela@reddit

I run continental extremecontact sport. I don’t track this car too much, mostly twisty road driving. With that said, she feels great. I can dog it constantly and she stays faithfully reliable.

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dcux@reddit

>about \~350 whp \[...\] Feels just like stock, but with a bit more umph. Damn, +150 wheel hp and still feels like stock?

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linuxguy192@reddit

I had plans to boost my Si before someone hit it, and my fear with a turbo was I would actually boost myself into the back of a car in stop and go traffic. I much preferred the idea of a supercharger.

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irongrab@reddit

MFW a cheap non-driver focussed car designed for getting from A to B isn’t amazing for driving experience….

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roman_maverik@reddit

Even though I love NA engines (current Honda k24 and Chevy LT1 owner), I’ve never experienced bad turbo lag with any *modern* 4 banger. All my past ecoboost, Nissan and Honda small turbos have been… adequate. Of course they aren’t as good as NA but there’s definitely not a huge difference, at least for daily driving. I didn’t even notice the lag unless you were purposely looking for it. Are you sure yours wasn’t just a lemon?

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

I've tried 3 different Si. It's not so much lag as the variability in power. Anyway, just my opinion. I'll cherish my NA car while I can.

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komrobert@reddit

Was it the newest generation Si, or the previous gen? The specs on paper are similar, but I’ve heard the new one is a lot more consistent power delivery wise and the shifter is much improved as well. I didn’t like previous gen Si with the rev hang and all, but the Type R was great.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Previous gen A brand new Si is now over 40k$ (am in Canada). Ain't no way I'm paying that much.

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komrobert@reddit

That’s fair, but that one does seem vastly inferior manual wise fwiw. I just drive an integra type S (basically civic type R with a little more comfort) and it was great, supposedly the new Si got a lot of the manual upgrades from the Type R so I’m guessing it feels nice too. I’ll need to drive one sometime

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TheTightEnd@reddit

I drove the regular Integra with a stick, and while it lacked power overall, the delivery was very pleasing and car felt quicker than it's 7+ second 0-60 times. I did not note any significant lag. There were just too many other disappointments that a Type-S wasn't going to fix.

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komrobert@reddit

What were the disappointments? For me it’s mostly about pricing, and maybe the lack of middle seat in the rear/generally lackluster back seats

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TheTightEnd@reddit

My biggest disappointments centered around refinement. I was looking for a premium (if not entry-luxury) sport touring car. The Integra doesn't deliver in that space. NVH is excessive. The ride is is choppy and undercontrolled (contrast that with the firm and well-controlled ride the Germans deliver). There are plenty of gadgets, but the feature set is sparse (no full leather, no built in navigation, no 12 way power passenger seat...) I also thought the Alcantara inlays looked cheaply tacked on and only putting them on the front seats was an unforced error. The console for the manual was inferior to that for the CVT. The regular Integra is well-priced. The Type-S is about $4000 too much, at the exact same price as the Arteon SEL Premium I ended up buying and is so much more car.

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komrobert@reddit

I disagree with your assessment, at least on the Type S. The ride is sublime, probably my favorite part, same with previous gen (FK8) Type R and those adaptive dampers but even better. The driver area and inputs are great, sound system is great. They cheaped out on the passenger comforts for sure, and idk why the Type S can’t have memory seats, but the driver comfort and daily drive ability is great. It almost felt too isolated and for me, aside from the exhaust pops in sport +. I don’t think I can go from my Z06 to that and still have the raw fun factor I want, but it’s a great car. I think it’s worth around 50K, so I agree it’s probably a little overpriced, but frankly there’s not much competition if you want manual.

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TheTightEnd@reddit

I focused on the disappointments. I will agree the Acura ELS audio is the best in mid-premium autosound. Handling and driver hardware are mostly great. It felt more responsive and quicker than it was. It is roomy for passengers and cargo (I think limiting the rear to two is wise, as it is too narrow for three). In isolation, it is overall a nice car. However, we came looking at the Integra with totally different expectations and demands, as a result our assessments differ. I wanted a premium sport sedan rather than a gussied up hot hatch.

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komrobert@reddit

Ah, yeah it’s still a Civic chassis at the end of the day, it’s pretty compact and has some limitations. I will say I think the Type S rides as well or better than the A3 I drove, I guess a bit worse than the 3 series/A4/C class (need to drive back to back) but those are also significantly heavier to the tune of 500+ lb, so it’s not too surprising. Those all seem pretty floaty, new 3 series with the dynamic handling package or whatever is decent and I drove that at an autocross event, but I’m fairly certain the Type S would spank it around a course in most conditions even being FWD. IMO if you were looking for Arteon, it would make sense to test the TLX, that surely feels more cushy and luxury sedan like than the integra. The Genesis G70 is pretty solid value as well in that segment.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Can confirm, the new type-r is very good with boost. Seems they've tuned the engine so you get good boost even low in the rev range. You can short shift and still enjoy the car

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

I'll check it out in a few years when they're available used.

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spriggan4@reddit

Yeah previous gen did have some critic of turbo lag. Heard the 11th have barely any at all?

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EntroperZero@reddit

Nah, you're 100% right. Turbo lag sucks, it's not as bad as it was in the 80s and 90s, but it absolutely still exists, and anyone telling you otherwise is in denial or trying to sell you something. I've driven so many small turbos that have been reviewed as "no turbo lag", "non-existent turbo lag", "un-noticeable turbo lag", and every one of them was a disappointment. Physics is physics. Unless your car sounds like a machinegun because you're dumping fuel off throttle, or you've got an MGU-H in the car physically spinning the turbo at all times, you've got turbo lag.

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jondes99@reddit

Let alone the 80s and 90s turbo cars.

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ShawtySayWhaaat@reddit

Try fiesta st, boost comes in pretty quick

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ktappe@reddit

What I haven't heard mentioned here is that there should not be any lag. Honda got rid of the lag by having the turbo stay spooled using an electric motor. So I don't understand why you'd be experiencing something Honda specifically engineered away.

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GC51320@reddit

Someone can't drive and is blaming the car... it's you OP.

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Mrv12@reddit

Lol then get something with a bigger turbo. Fist, Fost, Speed3, Subi plenty of options

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PanzerPeach@reddit

a bigger turbo would have even more lag lol

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pgoyal1996@reddit

From India. I recently had the chance to drive my uncle's Mahindra XUV300(Turbo petrol 1.2 L), while the boost and all was good at one point of time, I was literally fed up with the excessive clutch work and I was more interested in driving my humble NAs(Suzuki Alto 796cc and VW 1.6 MPFI). Being NA, the engines are so much more predictable and again, I do like keeping my engine and myself sane.

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CB200Cafe@reddit

All those great turbo cars from the 80s: the F40, the Group B stuff. All had a lot of turbo threshold, not lag. This made them exciting to drive, but not practical. Modern cars have engineered out threshold, but are still laggy, which gets boring in stop and go. I love this conversation, so let's dive into it a bit. Turbo threshold is the time you hit the go pedal to when boost kicks in. Turbo lag is the RPM range when boost finally kicks in. There will always be turbo threshold unless there are other types of forced induction in there. Gotta get pressure into the turbo for it to work. Throttle is how that happens. Now that that's out of the way, reyular conumers want a turbo car to operate similarly to an NA engine. With an automatic it's easy to program shifts to keep the motor in optimum RPM range so it stays on boost. With a manual that's impossible because the consumer is shifting. What does this mean? You're going to naturally keep the motor on the boil (re: winding it up) because that's where boost is. Modern cars don't have high boost threshold, but you can't engineer out lag without a supercharger, sequential turbos (money) so the motor will operate best up on the tach and if you're rowing your own you're going to stay in a boring place. It's a lot like riding a beehive. Don't short shift and drive it like it's a Japanese sport bike.

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speeding2nowhere@reddit

I love turbo lag. It builds anticipation.

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G4Channel@reddit

Yeah I’m sure the turbo lag is just horrible when it comes to the massive economy-grade turbo they drop into civics… come off it, man.

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FC1PichZ32@reddit

TLDR OP is short shifting and can’t cope

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MazdaRules@reddit

Get a Mazda 3 turbo... there is no lag at all.

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mechshark@reddit

i had a 2.0T 5 speed and it drove nice O\_O

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HunkyUnicorn@reddit

Shift faster lmao

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Throw_Spray@reddit

"Unless you drive like a psychopath." See, I think you already know the answer. You just don't want to face it. 😁

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time_to_reset@reddit

I had that with a bike I bought. Reviews said it was an absolute riot to ride and requiring skill to tame it blablabla. I found it incredibly boring unless you really stopped caring about basically any traffic law which would land you in jail and without a license for years where I live.

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Throw_Spray@reddit

Truth. Also, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. That said, if an engine wants to rev high when you shift it, then that's what it wants. Doesn't matter if it's a 2 stroke dirt bike, a Mazda Rotary, or a Subaru turbo.

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loulerg@reddit

Driving like a psychopath helps the pain 🤣🤣

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vzwire@reddit

“Turbo lag” Bruh- the turbo is the size of an apple.

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KittyTerror@reddit

This is why if I’m buying a manual I only look at cars NA engines 🤷‍♂️. Can’t stand turbo lag. Power delivery > peak power.

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levinano@reddit

Just curious, have you driven a turbo performance car for decent period of time? If you're driving a recirculating turbo car correctly, the lag itself is basically nonexistent, even when compared with NA engines.

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Mwebb1508@reddit

I’ll also say any 1.4t vw is not built for the drive quality. It’s built to be comfortable and fuel efficient.

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longrange_tiddymilk@reddit

How about you shift higher

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LizardKingTx@reddit

😂

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Fast-Interview4368@reddit

I LOVED my MkVII GTI with a stick. Turbo lag? Not the way I drove it!

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Slasher1738@reddit

That's surprising. I lived my Turbo w/ a 6 speed.

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aroundincircles@reddit

You’re doing it wrong.

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CandlestickWick@reddit

I have a 2016 Fiesta ST and it builds boost very quickly. It's hitting the TC by 3000 rpm in gears 1,2,and 3. In the wet, it breaks traction up to 5th.

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critical_suspect1@reddit

Psst! The entire car market has already gone to automatic transmission. Time to get with the times!

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marimbloke@reddit

Them's fightin' words on this sub

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p_rex@reddit

Ignore any stupid shift lights and hold more revs. I doubt the Si is slower or laggier than my Fiesta ST was, just anemic below maybe 2,500 rpm. If it loses boost when you shift at redline, something is wrong with the car you drove. Even if you shift up at, oh, 4,000 rpm and drop to maybe 2,500 rpm, boost should build very rapidly, almost instantly, with the small turbos in common use with such motors now. If boost builds real slow, it’s because you’re below the rpm threshold that the motor needs to build boost quickly. My FiST was indeed a dog below 2,000 rpm, which is why I never had it below 2,000 rpm — ever — except from a standing start. It largely lived between 2,500 rpm and 4,500 rpm, cruising in the 2.5k to 3k range. I only got maybe 24-25 mpg in the city, but I didn’t care because it was a hoot. The motor should bring enough midrange output to bear that it should easily leave traffic behind at decent throttle openings in the middle of the rev range — and should absolutely leave the N/A Mazda 3 for dead while not demanding a lot of you as a driver. I’m not a maniac at all, but if you want to short shift it, you are looking at the wrong kind of car.

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JamesBoboFay@reddit

Just shift at 4k rpm old man

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tobbelobb69@reddit

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time your title kind of made me smile and think "now wait until you try a \*big\* turbo engine".

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Modna@reddit

Honestly I'm the exact opposite. I absolutely love the added dynamic of driving a turbo engine. There is so much more throttle modulation to play with as the turbo reacts to the load. I learned stick on a 68 mustang 289, then drove a small 1.8 turbo for a while, then an Audi v8, and now back to a small turbo. The crisp throttle response of a larger V8 obviously has its place and is fun but I enjoy the dynamic of a turbo **way** more

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KawiNinjaZX@reddit

Drove a 2020 Si 31k mikes stock and tuned never had this kind of issue

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deepaksn@reddit

What? I have a regular Civic.. 1.5T base model.. and there’s like maybe a hint of lag on it. Best part is… huge power band. I can row all of the gears when I want.. but usually I skip them.. 1-2-4-6. 6th gear and stay for anything above 40MPH. Go uphill in 6th. Pass in 6th. Pass while going up hill in 6th.

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ChadThundercock42069@reddit

Just bounce it off the limiter until it hooks. It's a Honda

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Fun_Stranger_83@reddit

Let me tell you about the first gen Honda S2000. It's a very well loved sports car. You had to drive it like it owed you money. No power below 5500 rpm. Once you got above that it's fantastic! You just had to come to terms with the idea that Honda wanted to drive it in the upper rev range. Short answer is: they sold you the whole tachometer. Don't be afraid to use it. And yes, I have a Civic Type R, and I use all of it.

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That_Fix_2382@reddit

Have you tried lightly holding some throttle while shifting so that you're appx matching rpms that the next gear will be near? Never drove a turbo but it seems that might keep the turbo fan spinning better. I do it with my NA car for smoother shifts sometimes because the engine loses rpms than I normally shift. (Not racing, so I don't shift fast as a psychopath, haha)

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NEOTHEONEE@reddit

I like my si, but I hate the power band. I prefer the high reving k20’s. Those with a turbo would be ideal. The L15 in the new si is a disgrace to the SI name. We would of been better off with a fucking R18 over this garbage. But that’s just my opinion what do I know. Well I know the motor is made of plastic and Glass lmao

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ImperioliGandolfini@reddit

I had a 2023 si for a few months. I am now a fan of that 1.5 turbo. I poo poo’d it unfairly before I experienced it. It’s peppy and was more than enough in that car. And 40 mpg on the highway didn’t hurt. That transmission - Honda does their manuals so we’ll still.

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Clustre2@reddit

My 23 WRX feels like it is more responsive with torque than my old V6 Acura RDX. I genuinely feel zero turbo lag unless I accidentally lug the engine. Maybe you’re experiencing rev hang?

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coffeeINJECTION@reddit

Is the solution more turbos?

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rugbyfiend@reddit

I think he actually needs a bigger turbo. In fact, better install two in series just in case.

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strangway@reddit

I most definitely do not like any turbocharged car with less than 6 cylinders. You’re not alone.

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S2kKyle@reddit

If you want instant power buy a V8. Any turbo car will have some lag but newer cars with small turbos hardly have lag.

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Mumei451@reddit

If you're losing boost between shifts you're shifting too low in the rpm range. If you really want to accelerate, don't shift early. If you're just casually accelerating and shifting early the loss of power you feel isn't turbo lag. You're lugging the engine, that's why she has no juice.

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foothilllbull530@reddit

Bet that old Civic had all kinds of vacuum leaks unless it had a big aftermarket turbo shouldn't be lagging like that

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Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit

The Civic Si has been a dog under 8k RPM for over 20 years now. It’s not a turbo problem it’s a Honda problem.

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biryebread@reddit

Out of curiosity, how long do your clutches last?

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AdventurousWave5838@reddit

Depends on engine and setup Get an r56 cooper s or jcw the turbo lag is hard to notice sometimes

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Realpotato76@reddit

Fiesta ST also, with the stock turbo you have boost from ~1600 rpm onwards

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KungFuActionJesus5@reddit

I'm gonna disagree. People keep saying turbo lag and then talking about what RPM the boost comes on, but OP isn't talking about that. OP is talking about the time it takes for boost to build back up when you let off the throttle for long enough to shift smoothly, and then get back on it in chill city driving. You can be well into boost RPM's and still experience that lag. Smaller turbos that spool quickly and come one early like the FiST's turbo will reduce that delay, but it will still exist. I was thinking about this today as I was driving to work. Especially between 1-2 and even 2-3, it takes some time for the revs to drop properly in this car if you want a seamless shift. If you're driving chill and shifting at 3000, it's for sure noticeable in those first few gears. It doesn't bother me much, but it takes a noticeable moment for that turbo to spool. Maybe it's a skill issue on my end, but it feels like that's the cost of driving smoothly with a small displacement turbo motor.

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deli_sliced_ham@reddit

I was just scrolling looking for a fellow FiSTer!

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rssin@reddit

Awww yiss boost everywhere except near redline

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TechEdison@reddit

Fister.... nice lol

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tduncs88@reddit

I don't notice it at all in my f56 cooper s either.

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CaterCordova@reddit

Go drive the 23+ WRX. The twin scroll turbo on that thing basically makes it so you can't even tell it's turbo.

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Famous_Bit_5119@reddit

That engine is also known for rev hang with the manual.

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PDNYFL@reddit

Turbo lag on a modern DI turbo? Bruh, go drive a turbo car from the 80s or 90s with low compression. Then we will talk.

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mic_crispy@reddit

Ive never been a fan of MT + Turbo. In my mind a dct etc suits the characteristics of a turbo motor far better. I had a F80 MT when they came out and didn't like the experience at all so I moved over to F80 DCT and was much happier (until my ADD kicked in). Conversely, I feel a MT suits NA cars far better than a dual clutch in most applications.

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snubda@reddit

You all don’t know what turbo lag even is. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a14242489/you-might-not-actually-know-what-turbo-lag-really-means/

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guy_incognito784@reddit

Back in my day we didn't have no stinkin turbos and instead had to wait for that variable valve timing and lift to kick in and would lose it after each upshift. \*shakes fist at kids\*

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FiveseveN45@reddit

No complaints here with my somewhat slow but incredible driving experience I get from my BRZ. Like you said, the response is incredible. I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

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Rob_af_a@reddit

Bro I drive a Gti DSG and honestly I feel like that might be the right tranny choice for that car because of how the power band is done

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Knotical_MK6@reddit

Are you confusing turbo lag for boost threshold or just an unresponsive electronic throttle? My '13 GTI has effectively no turbo lag, and it doesn't have the fancy integrated manifold and close mounted turbo of that 1.5 Honda or 1.4T VW

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dabigbaozi@reddit

I feel like a lot of people confuse throttle response for turbo lag. I feel like we should cram them in an early 00’s WRX or similar and let them enjoy the agonizing wait of the ole days.

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Project-Evolution@reddit

So one thing to look into is if a vehicle is vent to atmosphere or has a recirculating valve. Most small engine small turbo cars dump the boost as they can build that boost back rather quickly. Recirculating valves are designed to keep some built turbo pressure avaliable after shifting. Check out an Evo 8-10 their 4g63 engine is bullet proof, they don't use lil baby turbos like most eco turbo cars these days, they recirculate after shifting(slamming gears is a blast) Yes there is turbo lag but like I said these aren't typical eco turbos they are 26psi peek from factory. After a tune you'll be producing more than 100hp a cylinder ;) There's a reason Japanese car companies turn to Mitsubishi for their turbos.

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Liquid_Padpo@reddit

The civic si with the turbo was hardly noticeable unless you're really driving it hard when I drove it. It just felt N/A unless you kinda lean into it

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Latter-Bird-1276@reddit

Turbo lag is fun tbh

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buttsnuggles@reddit

Have a 1.4T VW and yeah the lag is kinda nasty. On the flip side, you can get a stage 1 tune and it’s super torquey.

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samc1253@reddit

The problem with the Civic Si is rev hang. It just takes SO LONG for the revs to drop, it’s not fun at all

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HeavyHebrewHammer@reddit

*Chuckles in AP1 Honda S2000 with F20C motor*

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AccipiterCooperii@reddit

Hey, no turbo lag in the Focus ST 🤌

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attackofthenigel@reddit

My HP peak numbers are 5800 ish and tq starts real low but it's a boosted straight 6.

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GenosOccidere@reddit

Predictability is one thing but becoming familiar with what your car does when shifting at certain RPMs is another My point is: how long have you driven the turbo? It takes a while to get familiar with how the turbo spool engages at certain ranges and it absolutely doesn’t involve driving like a psychopath. I prefer turbo cars over NA because of that deeper complexity. The predictability of NA comes from a more bland personality of the car imo.

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PointyButtCheeks@reddit

Tune/understand the car. You're driving the car or is it driving you?

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Sttocs@reddit

There are dozens (hundreds) of new NA manuals on sale. You just have to give up two weeks.

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eyesack_@reddit

My mom has a 5 speed Mk7 Golf TSI, falls flat on its face in the high revs but the turbo kicks in at such low rpm’s that this isn’t an issue. For the type of driving you’re talking about (having some fun on the way to work without getting arrested) I think it’s great. Could be worth a try.

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RolandMT32@reddit

I recently bought a Mazda3, non-turbo, and I like driving it. I figured a turbo would be one more thing that could break, and the nom-turbo has enough power. Also, the turbo reduces fuel economy .A turbo Mazda could be fun though.

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smacks23@reddit

I genuinely don’t think you are driving correctly. Modern cars with small turbo engines make boost almost instantly. As long as you are above 1500 rpm after a shift you should still be in boost. Turbo lag is on big engines with big turbos

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Minute-Solution5217@reddit

I sometimes drive a VAG 1.0t and never had any issues like this, spools up from like 1600rpm. Way better than a NA 1.4 which has no power anywhere.

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Xanzar21@reddit

An anti-lag system might fix that, but do you want to add weight and increase maintenance time to fix it?

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CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit

While this is technically true, I chuckle imagining someone just daily driving with ALS on and getting into accidents due to brake booster not working very well with ALS.

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Xanzar21@reddit

Lmao , woops insurance *stares motherfuckerly*

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tractorcrusher@reddit

Weight? Anti-lag is usually just a tune and maybe a secondary air injection system which weighs next to nothing.

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Xanzar21@reddit

More weight is still more weight.

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tractorcrusher@reddit

Considering most people DON'T go with an SAI system, no it's not. And if you did you're talking about the weight difference of wearing lightweight running sneakers vs air force 1s while you're driving, or eating a salad for lunch vs a chipotle burrito.

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Xanzar21@reddit

True, but you know how people are. They'd rather eat their lunch than diet.

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tractorcrusher@reddit

Hahaha. In jealous you have a R129 SL500, I still want one some day. Got real close to getting a 2001 SL600 years ago but my Mercedes mechanic said hell no, get the 5.0L.

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Xanzar21@reddit

If you do get a 1998 for the leman winning m119. If you get a 1999+ save yourself the trouble and buy the r230 , reason being that the m113 was designed for that specific chassis and it wouldn't be too difficult to swap it for an m113k. Far as the m119 is concerned you can get an alberx supercharger or a koenig-specials unit, both will push the car to 500+whp.

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thecarguru46@reddit

I hate my Taos more than any car I've ever owned.The gas pedal is a hand grenade because of the turbo. Bought it after covid when there wasn't anything available. I can't wait to get back into a car with a decent size engine.

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Infinityaero@reddit

Honestly, gonna have to stick with 90s-mid 2000s for the most part in terms of non pony and sports cars. The VTEC days are over, even at Honda. Instead of keeping an engine revved out all the time, you've gotta keep the boost up. Automatics could actually lend a benefit in terms of boost management as they can be programmed together so that even when you let off throttle or shift it still holds the boost. A lot harder for engine management to predict when you're in control of the throttle and shift points and the turbo is responding directly to your inputs and manual transmission state.

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Last-Maintenance4352@reddit

Mazdaspeed 3 is fun to drive and definitely a good car to try out if you can!

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arcticrobot@reddit

Had turbo Si for few years, no horrible turbo-lag detected. Small engine, small turbo spools really fast. I do like to rev though and even in my manual NA Tacoma I tend to drive "spiritedly"

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Super_Colossal@reddit

As a fellow gen 3 3 owner, the reason the power is so linear and available is because there is none lol. But also the shifter feel is so good.

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daffyflyer@reddit

Interesting that a Civic is like that, I've got a Honda S660, so similar era of turbo honda, but a 0.6L i3. It's not like that as long as you don't shift up at \*super\* low RPM. As long as you rev it out to like 3.5 - 4k it drops right back into the boost and keeps going. Yes if you do a shift that drops you below like 2.2k it's a bit gutless until the turbo wakes up, but what small displacement engine likes being below 3k and making power anyway? Looking at dyno sheets for the 10th Gen Civic SI it looks like as long as you keep it above 2.5k it should be right in it's happy boost zone. It's a 1.5, no shame in keeping it on a few revs, it's never going to drive like a big displacement motor. If you want something with more bottom end though, an [11th gen Civic Si does spool at lower revs -](https://prlmotorsports.com/cdn/shop/articles/baseline-dyno-testing-our-11th-gen-honda-civic-si-484494_768x.jpg?v=1655746514)

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xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit

I test drove one and didn't notice any issues. It was a riot. Ended up with the Miat tho. But I thought the gear changes in the Si were super slick and the boost was fun. I'd defo pick one up as a daily if the need arose

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campr23@reddit

Audi TFSI (turbocharger and supercharger) is the solution.

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TrickyDicky111@reddit

Did you test drive on a really hot day? Turbo's don't like really hot days!

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_autismos_@reddit

NA engines don't either. The first thing to go is low end torque, it's super noticeable in the summer months.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Oh boy, remember driving my previous Mazda3 through Death Valley while it was 120 degrees. Poor little time struggled to get out of its own way. And yeah a shorter 2nd gear would be nice! Actually make all first 5 gears shorter and closer, then let 6th be an aggressive overdrive.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

It is hot as balls this week, gonna admit to that

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farsh_bjj@reddit

You need a 2.0 turbo to have enough low end torque imo, especially in a manual. My mk8 gti does a lot better than my mk6 Jetta 1.8turbo did. That car was I would deem acceptable but borderline and below that I agree with you 100

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cheeseIsNaturesFudge@reddit

The new swift sports with the 1.4t have a variable geometry turbo and no lag with a faaat midrange, it's great.

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RacerM53@reddit

Hearing people complain about turbo lag in modern cars is hilarious. Drive turbo stuff from the 80s. Now that's turbo lag.

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theposs101@reddit

Very interesting situation to say the least, most modern turbo engines are designed to minimize turbo lag.

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Cowhide12@reddit

Lmao. I have a speed3 that I shift around 5500, no problems that you have. It feels great.

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UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit

Did you try the Mazda with turbo? Or is it not available with stick. No turbo lag in that one that I’ve felt. Just falls on its face after 4500 rpm

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bigloser42@reddit

Laughs in B58.

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allaboutgrowth4me@reddit

My experience with modern small displacement turbos is the opposite. My accord 2.0t spools instantly and gives lots of low end torque. A huge contrast to the 90's dsm cars i came from.

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solvenceTA@reddit

This exact lack of predictability, dropping out of boost after a shift, getting shoved into the seat as the turbo spools, losing traction, etc is what makes a manual fun to me. NA and even DSG turbo feels boring in the sense that it just pulls. No perceivable change in torque, you just watch the speedo go up. But tastes vary I guess.

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Incompetent_Person@reddit

Eh, driving around with the 1.5t as long as you aren’t upshifting before ~3k there’s basically no turbo lag, I can get the boost to kick in almost right after I clutch out and it feels kinda nice when it all comes together. You upshift and revs drop below ~2.2k yeah, I can feel it lose power and have to wait for it to build back up for a sec. But again, just don’t upshift early and it’ll be fine. The turbo kicks in at 1.8k rpm on this car, so you really don’t want to be near that anyway while driving around.

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ahkenaden@reddit

"Granny shifting, not double-clutching like you should..."

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DatNaggaSouffle@reddit

All I've noticed is that all these commenters don't know what rolling on is whether manual or auto.

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TechEdison@reddit

You could buy a D16 Honda, or you could buy a 1.5t Honda. The difference is, you wouldn't have that extra power without the turbo. Also, those make peak torque at close to 2k rpms. If you're having turbo lag, you're lugging it. If you want fun, shift it like you mean it. Small engines need revs. If you shift it early, you wouldn't have fun in an NA either because it'll make the same power sans-turbo at all.

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Z3temis@reddit

I really enjoy driving the 2002 audi tt with the 1.8t and stage 1 tuned, never felt unpredictable. Just have to compensate for the lag a little bit. Super fun to drive.

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larphraulen@reddit

This actually why I enjoyed daily driving the my 1st gen BRZ. I would shift at the start of the torque dip. It was a subtle enough change that when I'd clutch in, it was a very smooth transition for that brief loss of momentum when coasting, before clutching back out. Then you're back on the torqueier part of the curve.

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thefizzlee@reddit

I have the same issues with the turbo diesel vans at work, we got a newer model with more hp and it's absolutely God awful to drive, everyone thinks it's great and fast but all I feel is turbo lag. You hit the gas, nothing happens then boom all the power, you shift and it's the same thing and it's driving me crazy. I actually prefer the slower van because while it's slower it feels more like an NA because there is hardly any boost at all. Don't get me wrong turbo cars can be Hella fun when you got boost but for a work car/van it just needs to be smooth imo, not fun for a few hundred rpm and then back to nothing

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32steph23@reddit

throw some antilag at it /s

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kyonkun_denwa@reddit

My experience with my dad’s Saab 9-5 was the opposite. I found it easier to control the turbo lag with a stick. The automatic Saabs of that era had VERY noticeable turbo lag and were less fun to drive as a result.

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longgamma@reddit

My mk7.5 has a noticeable lag in eco mode but it just disappears in sport mode.

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Hot-Praline7204@reddit

I have one Tesla and one VW turbo. The turbo lag is infinitely more painful when your other car has instant low end torque.

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Living-Day-By-Day@reddit

Twin turbo setups? Kia stinger is an pretty neat car. Sleep almost you could say

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TheTightEnd@reddit

Having driven the Integra with a stick, I am thinking claims of lag are exaggerated. I also have a 2.0 turbo with a stick in another car, and it has no noticeable lag (torque peak at 2500 rpm and pulls well from about 1500 rpm). Perhaps it is a need to adapt the driving style.

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RacerX3888@reddit

Some cars, like my 2020 impreza have "Rev hang" programmed into them. There is a tune to get rid of it but I got pretty used to it. I'm also not really slamming gears like I used to.

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Badluck2killaseabird@reddit

the turbo charged Sis have some of the worst rev hang ive ever experienced. They're also way overpriced

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mehdotdotdotdot@reddit

I have had an mx5 2.0 manual, 2014 Mazda 3 sp25 2.5l manual and an i20N 1.6 turbo manual. The Mazda 3 was the least fun manual of all my cars. Is a transmission that has zero feel, it’s super floppy, and requires you to short shift to stay in the torque. The engine completely runs out of puff when accelerating hard onto an on ramp for instance. The mx5 manual box is so fun to use and provides so much feedback, you will change gears just for the sake of it. The i20n has rev hang and turbo lag, but it took me like a week to get used to driving it and now it’s incredibly fun and very easy to drive. In eco mode the mapping actually gives more torque down low too. I think for you it’s just a matter of getting used to different cars. The Mazda manual is easy, but is also not rewarding or fun. I would prefer it to be an auto honestly, which is what the engine is designed for

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exgokin@reddit

I dunno man. I’ve have three 2.0 turbo cars…one with a tune and some basic bolt on’s. I don’t notice much lag if any at all. They are fairly small turbos and the way the power builds feels pretty linear. Only way is if I shift way too early.

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LazyLancer@reddit

I have a MINI JCW and i don't really notice lag. There is a boost threshold, yes, but gas pedal response above 2K is brilliant. I can only guess if this is a benefit of "no throttle" design of BMW coupled with boost bypass valve rather than a blow-off. Not sure about smaller engine MINIs though. For comparison, i've recently driven an Abarth 595, and both turbo lag and turbo thresholds are crazy. Engine is numb until 3K and it takes 1-1.5 sec for boost to build, OMG.

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ztimulating@reddit

Makes it fun. Start out slow and then torque kicks in.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Boost is certainly fun. Technically I'm not complaining about turbo lag, just don't like its impact on driving stick (unless driving very aggressively)

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papoosejr@reddit

You can shift at a higher rpm without driving aggressively.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

But then you experience that massive rev hang issue that the Si has. Didn't think it would be such a big deal... it's really annoying.

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mehdotdotdotdot@reddit

You get used to it very quickly

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minkus1000@reddit

Then that's an issue with the SI, not with turbos + manual. I've heard a hondata flash greatly helps with that though.

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Ocarina-Of-Tomb@reddit

I had a 2018 Subaru STI and before that a 2014 WRX Hatch. Both of those cars were gutless below 3500 RPM. Felt like dogs in the city unless you were driving like you stole it. The STI had short gears, which helped. I had a 2016 GTI that had a lot more low end torque, that was better, but geared way too tall to be much fun to shift. My point is, there is always some kind of trade off. Now I drive a Honda Ridgeline like an old man and I love that thing. Plus the VTEC sounds pretty awesome when it comes on. It really made me appreciate having an NA V6 with good mid range power. Turbos were fun when they were a novelty. Now they are in everything.

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TriggerTough@reddit

I'm in a fully built Type RA STI. If I heel toe it and drop it to 3k RPMs I'm always at that sweet spot. Below 3k and it's an Impreza. YMMV. lol

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JYL007@reddit

That is a Honda issue, not a small turbo engine issue. Plenty of small turbo engines that provide plenty of power across the rpm range. I came from a 18 Civic Si into a 19 Veloster N, the small turbo Hyundai engine has no lack of power after shifts!

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lynch1986@reddit

Honestly sounds like heat soak. My MK7 gti is very responsive and predictable, but on a really hot day, sometimes we go fast, some times we go not so fast.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Yeah, it's hot as balls this week, probably didn't help.

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spriggan4@reddit

Did it feel like it was limiting itself. Cuz that most likely might be it. The stock intercooler on hondas are trash.

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LonelyDriver@reddit

Sounds like user error.

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Zcypot@reddit

On my Yukon with the 6.2 I’m feathering the gas and it rolls off quick. With my WRX I need to rev it out and it sounds like I’m smashing on it haha.

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Beneficial-Space-670@reddit

Yeah, that's the main reason I went with the DSG transmission on my GTI.

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Herr_Tilke@reddit

I have 1.8t mated to a pretty tall 6 speed. It's good enough for daily driving. I can keep up all right and it's not horrendous for stop and go either. I've driven the BMW 2L turbo w/ a manual transmission and it's one of the best driving experiences I've had.

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WabbitCZEN@reddit

Imagine trying to drive a 1.4 turbo like it's a spirited car. That's why VW has the 2.0 turbo.

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flatsix__@reddit

turbo engines in general make me hate driving

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Darth_Mustache@reddit

I have a 23 Forte GT Manual and I notice no lag.

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Anteater_Reasonable@reddit

Rev hang is what made me hate driving a stick. Most new manual cars seem to suffer from this to the point where they’re frustrating to drive. I just can’t be bothered with it anymore. I traded a manual for an auto last year and I don’t really miss it like I thought I would.

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BlueJDMSW20@reddit

My daily driver uses a very old 3s-gte from the midnineties. It helps to have an appropriately sized turbo to your powerband and revlimiter, lacking that, turbolag can very much so remove streetability and a nice linesr powerband for your turbo 4cylinder.

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StandardSherbert8441@reddit

1.4T VW owner here and I don’t think its turbo lag its the fact these tiny motors don’t have enough rotational mass to keep the rpm up between shifts modern small displacement turbo engine hit peak boost damn near instantly then drop off in the top end.

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SlothsAndArt@reddit

I had the same exact experience going to test drive the new Si in my S2000. The combination of fewer revs and peaky power made me feel like I was on a rocking horse. The car costs about $10k more after taxes than an AP1 with 60k miles so it was a no brainer to keep my car (practicality aside).

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

Plus the S2000 is likely to appreciate with time.

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MaliciousMilk@reddit

The turbo on a 1.5L civic SI should have virtually no lag whatsoever, it is very small, it's likely just that the powerband leans more towards the top end since boost will be higher there, more boost = more power. If you own a 1.5T si and want to wake it up get a flash tune on it, pretty sure they are capable of almost 200whp with just some adjustments to fueling and whatnot, no modifications needed.

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WonderfulNet5587@reddit

You need to drive a Ford Focus ST. No such thing as lag and they only come with a manual. I bought mine brand new in 2017 and still love it.

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Glixator@reddit

I own Fiesta St180, now with hybrid turbo pushing 300hp, but I don't notice any turbo lag when shifting at 3k RPM. The turbo spools almost at idle rpms.

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Hunt3rj2@reddit

The whole point of a turbo engine is to be able to have that bi-modal behavior. Either you're trying to keep it economical and out of the boost or you want the power so you keep it in the RPM range where the turbo spools quickly and wring it out. Modulation is easier in an NA engine but you trade that for less torque, especially in a modern GDI turbo engine.

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exceller0@reddit

I only drive Automatic ...dont know why people still use manuals...

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Chef-mcKech@reddit

Same reason people like sports cars in general. It's fun.

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Bloody_Biscuit_Balls@reddit

I have a MT 2019 WRX and the turbo lag was pretty outrageous until I had it pro tuned. I’ve heard that the VB has a much better engine and powerband from factory, but haven’t had a chance to check it out yet.

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MeneMeneTekashi@reddit

How about the Civic base model with the NA 2.0 and a MT? It might be one of the best value cars available.

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

At that point I prefer the Mazda3 I ended up getting. Similar power, but more torque, and better fuel economy. And you can get it in the hatch... well... could. I'm talking about 5 year old cars here. Base Mazda3 is now a 2.5 with an automatic. Still a few k$ cheaper than the equivalent Civic though, at least here in Canada.

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TheLuckyPanda@reddit

Did you get a touring trim or something? (I think they removed it as 2.5 is now base) But I just got the latest Mazda3 hatch in a manual. Super fun to drive, solid interiors. I think you'll be happy with the Mazda3 for a long time - solid choice!

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ThisGuyKnowsNuttin@reddit (OP)

It's a 2018, back then the 2.5 was only on the GT (trims are different in Canada) and didn't have luck finding a GT hatch with a stick. I like the driving experience of my GS (mid trim) but it's certainly not fast. Actually my 2nd 3rd gen Mazda3, also my 3rd Mazda3. They're a known quantity to me (also had 2 Protegé prior to that)

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I_Wanda@reddit

My advice is keep searching; there’s lots of fish in the sea! A Subaru WRX is worth taking for a test drive imo.

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alexseiji@reddit

Tbh... i loved the turbo lag on my Citroen C4 w/ 1.2 3cyl turbo rental when I was in England. It made it feel a lot faster than it was.

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VincentVanH0@reddit

Depends on the car. I have a couple complaints about my manual Veloster N but turbo lag is not one of them (twin scroll turbo).

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I_Drive_a_shitbox@reddit

Love the 1.8T in my 03 Passat. Doesn't make sense that a heavy German sedan doesn't feel laggy with a 4cylinder small turbo, but here I am. Probably due to the fact that it's not stock...my old stock passat only made 7psi and was a bit lacking in city traffic

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demonkeyed@reddit

I had a Fiesta St and it wasn’t laggy at all.

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awesomeperson882@reddit

My Passat’s 2.0T I find to be pretty predictable.

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speedfreakphotos@reddit

Check out the new WRX, it’s pretty linear across the band.

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