Did all ancient civilization around the world from Egypt, to Cambodia, to Peru all figured out steel Clamps at the same time?

[-]

masdafarian@reddit

Egyptians invented it and crossed seas and built all the other pyramids with the same tech they used to build the Egypt ones. Poured concrete

Reply

[-]

Brave_Campaign1196@reddit

Well, the Egyptians didn't invent anything for 3,000 years. When the Romans discovered them, they were as backward as when they first found the pyramids.

Reply

[-]

masdafarian@reddit

Yes maybe that applies to the Egyptians who stayed in Egypt. The ones that left took the technology. Maybe they had to leave for major flooding and only the most prominent could leave

Reply

[-]

What's more plausible, portable smelters or geopolymers concrete that get staples Made (off site) and implanted before drying. More and More scientific methods are showing most (not all) of the megalithic structures are geopolymers. The simplest method makes the most sense.

Reply

[-]

i4c8e9@reddit

Can you link a scientific study that indicates most (not all) megalithic structure are geopolymers?

Reply

[-]

Strict_Jacket3648@reddit

The thin section of a sample taken from the Pumapunku red sandstone monument shows grain boundaries made of a thick fluidal red ferro-sialate matrix. To our knowledge, this feature is very unusual in sandstone formed geologically. It represents a *unicum* and supports the idea of artificial sandstone geopolymer concrete. Complementary SEM/EDS analysis for Na, Mg, Al, Si, K, Ca, Fe suggests that the Kallamarka site is the source for Pumapunku megalithic blocks. To make their geopolymer sandstone [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167577X18315982](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167577X18315982) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HsswLyGJkM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HsswLyGJkM) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335699977\_Tiahuanaco\_monuments\_Tiwanaku\_Pumapunku\_in\_Bolivia\_are\_made\_of\_geopolymer\_artificial\_stones\_created\_1400\_years\_ago](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335699977_Tiahuanaco_monuments_Tiwanaku_Pumapunku_in_Bolivia_are_made_of_geopolymer_artificial_stones_created_1400_years_ago) Go down the rabbit hole, it seems the megalithic builders were very ingenious with polymer mixtures.

Reply

[-]

spooks_malloy@reddit

Do you want to show us one that's actually peer reviewed or nah

Reply

[-]

Fart_in_my_mouf@reddit

It’s so tiring to hear about peer reviewed papers when speculating on potential histories. Nobody knows and it’s not a science subreddit, who tf is peer reviewing archaeological geopolymer papers anyways?

Reply

[-]

99Tinpot@reddit

Well, on this occasion the person who posted it did say that "scientific methods are showing" that some megalithic structures are geopolymers, so I suppose it's reasonable to ask whether these studies actually exist or whether they just heard that they did from somebody on YouTube who turned out to have made it up.

Reply

[-]

Fart_in_my_mouf@reddit

Hm. It makes sense that they could be geopolymers given that it’s generally simply limestone CaCO3 which would just be carbon dioxide and quicklime. I just don’t feel like alternative history subreddit is a place to ask for peer reviewed papers and it’s kind of annoying when people dismiss your work because there’s no peer reviewed paper on the subject.

Reply

[-]

99Tinpot@reddit

Geopolymers makes, on the face of it, more sense for limestone than for silicaceous rocks like granite or andesite (what some of the Inca ruins are made of), which some people have also claimed were geopolymers. I've seen some people say that there's some other kind of (experimentally demonstrated) geopolymer mixture that can do those, though - and I've also seen people say that analysis has shown that the stone these monuments are made of isn't either of those, and other people say that analysis has shown that it *is*. Possibly, it *is* kind of annoying to ask for peer-reviewed papers when half the people in here are just happily speculating and don't know much about science and don't pretend to, yeah... I generally save it for the ones that are being snippy and saying that "this has been scientifically proved, you're just too lazy to educate yourself" when it sounds like all they're actually basing that on is that they once saw somebody in a YouTube video say it had been :-D

Reply

[-]

Fart_in_my_mouf@reddit

Yeah, for granite that’s a big no from me. Maybe if you’re melting stone like from lava and allowing it to cool slowly, you’d get the granularity effect. Or if you could soften the stone or do some crazy quantum stuff where the stone is vibrating at a specific frequency allowing them to intersect the next stone. But hey — I don’t know science and I’m just happy speculating. 😂😂

Reply

[-]

spooks_malloy@reddit

Yeah, I forgot this place is full of people just making up insane stuff

Reply

[-]

Fart_in_my_mouf@reddit

Yes and no.

Reply

[-]

Strict_Jacket3648@reddit

The Geopolymer Institute were the only scientists allowed to get samples so that's the only scientific research paper available about puma punko but others have used magnetic readings to suggest other megalithic sites are also geopolymers but scientists cannot take samples of sites because of their historical standings. Cut and stacked stones do not realign magnetic fields geopolymers do. The simplest solution is often the right one but I don't claim to know for sure, It makes a lot more sense for the megalithic builders to use teams of people using a concreate type (geopolymer) process then cutting lifting and moving multi ton stones and it could be done in 1/4 the time.

Reply

[-]

Fart_in_my_mouf@reddit

Except when Edward Leedskalnin built a castle on his own in Florida. I think we do not think about a certain piece of the puzzle properly and this is what is causing you to believe that geopolymers are easier than cutting and moving great mass.

Reply

[-]

Strict_Jacket3648@reddit

Not at all I think both are true. They obviously moved massive blocks but it equally possible they new geopolymers like we don't, finding which are geopolymers and which aren't would go along way to understanding their way thinking and perhaps why they chose whichever method they did.

Reply

[-]

Strict_Jacket3648@reddit

[https://www.geopolymer.org/wp-content/uploads/TIWANAKU-PUMAPUNKU.pdf](https://www.geopolymer.org/wp-content/uploads/TIWANAKU-PUMAPUNKU.pdf)

Reply

[-]

maxeber_@reddit

Alternative history sub here dude

Reply

[-]

maxeber_@reddit

Are you kidding, this is alternative history sub

Reply

[-]

Aarpom@reddit

Yeah but you should still take your meds

Reply

[-]

Shamino79@reddit

Portable smelter for the win here.

Reply

[-]

skagrabbit@reddit

No because they were several thousand years apart, Egypt was way older

Reply

[-]

6ring@reddit

How do make a statement like that ?

Reply

[-]

skagrabbit@reddit

Err, ancient Egypt was 4300 BC and ancient Cambodian temples are 1300 AD. Comparing civilisations that are 6000 years apart as if they were the same is retarded and shows no historical knowledge. The Myans were around 500AD almost in the middle.

Reply

[-]

6ring@reddit

Sorry, man, Im not ever going to argue that out again.

Reply

[-]

OhmericTendencies@reddit

What's with the mf doom masks

Reply

[-]

farmertom@reddit

Don't forget your pot holders!

Reply

[-]

Paul-Van-DeDam@reddit

OSHA

Reply

[-]

Juliuscesear1990@reddit

Heat shield

Reply

[-]

Koraguz@reddit

Those cultural groups aren't even around at the same time...

Reply

[-]

Things_Poster@reddit

Came here to say this. Angkor wat was built thousands of years after the great pyramids.

Reply

[-]

bacchys1066@reddit

Pouring molten metal into the stone would damage the stone.

Reply

[-]

Fart_in_my_mouf@reddit

Not necessarily. If you were to thermally shock the stone it would damage the stone but let’s assume you’ve heated the stone first, cast your alloy, and allowed for a temper

Reply

[-]

aykavalsokec@reddit

People will claim that these are structural but a force big enough to move those blocks will snap these right out.

Reply

[-]

Howie_7@reddit

Uh ya that doesn't look like an OSHA violation at all. Seriously though, that thing looks flammable AF.

Reply

[-]

garry4321@reddit

Why are you misleading people OP? Not needed

Reply

[-]

DiscoDancingNeighb0r@reddit

No. No they didn’t.

Reply

[-]

kimthealan101@reddit

Depends on who you ask, but steel was not developed until around 500AD. Getting details wrong ruins theories. Copper staples would probably work better anyway

Reply

[-]

Onetap1@reddit

>Copper staples would probably work better anyway Probably bronze, been around since oh, probably about the bronze ago.

Reply

[-]

6h0stly@reddit

It's actually crazy to me when people think it took us soooo long to figure out metals when mining was prevalent for gold you'd obviously be looking for any other type of ore as well. You can easily test strengths and it seems like the logical next step to melt down hardier ore looooong before mainstream believes

Reply

[-]

99Tinpot@reddit

Why would melting down random stones be the logical next step, if you didn't know what ore was? Or was that not what you meant?

Reply

[-]

kimthealan101@reddit

Copper and tin would melt and form up from the heat of a campfire. They are fairly common elements too. The use of gold 7000 years ago intrigues me though

Reply

[-]

Adventurous-Ear9433@reddit

Each & everyone of them came from under the same umbrella. I keep tryin to tell people this. Independent invention is nonsense, Egyptian,,Inca,Chichimec (Aztec), Shakti, Ancient Cambodians, Naga-Maya, each of them will tell you that they learned those specific construction methods from the Sacred Secrets Brotherhood of the Sunken land that western academia claims never existed... They're not clamps tho

Reply

[-]

Chubbybellylover888@reddit

Does it even have to be so mystical? Who's to say this technology hasn't existed for a long time, continuously passed down, but we've not dug deep enough yet.

Reply

[-]

Adventurous-Ear9433@reddit

What's mystical about it? Why are people so closedminded & want the simplest explanation, that's a terrible habit. We cannot just ignore the accounts of the very builders themselves because it doesn't fit the nonsensical narrative of academia. There probably won't ever be an accurate understanding of history in the West because of our inability to remove ourselves and what people THINK they know. As long as the establishment ignores the builders of these sites there won't be any progress

Reply

[-]

Shamino79@reddit

It could have easily been a wood construction technique. Gets extrapolated to stone when metal becomes available.

Reply

[-]

Adventurous-Ear9433@reddit

No it couldn't. Don't think on such a simple level, And definitely don't think about what we would do today. That's never going to get to the truth, science today is inadequate & much of what's accepted today our ancestors knew was nonsense. This is why it's so hard for people to understand the construction methods

Reply

[-]

wreckballin@reddit

Just look at modern times. Let’s just say the last 200 years. This is before what we would call modern times. There is a phenomenon of people in locations across they world and considering there was travel by sailing ships which was very slow. There are accounts of people across these distances coming up with the same ideas and inventions at the same but live thousands of miles apart in different cultures. It makes you wonder how this would be possible? Yes there are many instances of this happening with current technologies. Radio communication, TV, phone. These technologies that allows us to talk to each other all over the world seemed to be worked on in different countries around the same time. It could be coincidence but it seems unlikely.

Reply

[-]

Chubbybellylover888@reddit

People are pretty smart. We evolved to solve problems. Its humanity's greatest strength and weakness. Also, the world was globalised long before 200 years ago. Technological and information exchange has been happening globally for thousands of years. Its not that much of a stretch.

Reply

[-]

ER1AWQ@reddit

You dont think people can look at the same problem then have similar solutions to it?

Reply

[-]

1oldguy1950@reddit

So much knowledge was lost in that last great catastrophe. Does anyone know why the Sphinx is water damaged???

Reply

[-]

Vo_Sirisov@reddit

Anton, I know that you know that these were not all steel, and do not all suddenly show up in the archaeological record at the same time. Why you gotta clickbait?

Reply

[-]

Glittering-Plum7791@reddit

It's a bot that keeps posting this on a bunch of different subreddits to get engagement. And it's working

Reply

[-]

King_rizvi80@reddit

It's called simultaneous discovery

Reply

[-]

Leading-Okra-2457@reddit

Both independent and dependent origin is possible. From Mediterranean to Himalayas there was lots of trade.

Reply

[-]

etherd0t@reddit

Those were not steel, but copper-made clams - and their purpose was not to hatch in and hold the stones together, but to ensure 'conductivity' between stones like an electric circuit.

Reply

[-]

theblackpen@reddit

Whoa - why?

Reply

[-]

ER1AWQ@reddit

So strange, a dumbass weirdo makes some schizo claim, then you ask a VERY simple question, and they ignore you while posting other stupid shit on reddit! How fun!

Reply

[-]

Temporary-Careless@reddit

I don't see one set of "clamps". Ya'll morons.

Reply

[-]

wreckballin@reddit

The clamps were the I beam inlay between the stones. Some say they were to hold them together, others have suggested since of the material they were made from which was conductive, it may have had another purpose. You don’t see this material today in current photos because it has eroded away. Considering these are thousands of years old that would be the case for those types of metals. It wasn’t so much a clamp but let’s say and ancient dove tail which is used in woodworking.

Reply

[-]

Temporary-Careless@reddit

Exactly. Those would be called bow tie inlays in wood workers' terms. And wood joints have been used for over 5 thousand years. These are just jointing members between stone. Not some ancient alien bs theory.

Reply

[-]

ButtonJaded8576@reddit

Does seem a little inprobable

Reply

[-]

HVLLOWS1999@reddit

Dude imagine the Aztecs with Iron weapons & engineering.

Reply

[-]

kawambonga@reddit

So irrigation systems and complex floating farming doesn’t require engineering?

Reply

[-]

HVLLOWS1999@reddit

Obviously not Iron toold & industrial level engeneering. Are you unaware of the fact that the Aztecs are a stone age civilazation? Or just stupid.

Reply

[-]

kawambonga@reddit

Define stone age.

Reply

[-]

HVLLOWS1999@reddit

Those periods of the past when metals were unknown and stone was used as the main material for missiles, as hammers, for making tools for such tasks as cutting and scraping and, later, as spear heads. Oxford University. The Aztecs had only stone tools and acheived many wonders. They are one of my favorite civs to study and mesoamerica is my favorite cradle of civilazation to study as well. This post reffered to societies of ancient antiquity industrializing(what if). All I said was imagine if te Aztecs did this. It would be cool to see.

Reply

[-]

CaseNately@reddit

They were probably more concerned with earthquake proofing structures and building above water levels since they were survivors of a global catastrophe. They would build and move to seemingly illogical areas during times of great strife for defense and in consideration of forces of nature that just caused them so much trouble.

Reply

[-]

Fmartins84@reddit

Aliens....def. aliens

Reply

[-]

ziplock9000@reddit

You know the laws of physics are universal and humans all have 1 head, 2 arms and 2 legs all over the world too. Plus it never all happened at the same time anyway.

Reply

[-]

cflanagan95@reddit

No, they discovered how to use iron at different times. Tin and copper are easy to use as they have lower melting points. Iron requires a blast furnace. We know that Africa didn't go through a bronze age and went straight to the iron age due to other iron age civilisations introducing the technology.

Reply

[-]

oceanpotionwa@reddit

it was obviously an email that got around showing the plans how to build duhhhhh

Reply

[-]

poop_on_balls@reddit

Reply all

Reply

[-]

jojojoy@reddit

Are all of these clamps made of steel? - > decided to stop constructing buildings using wood and mud bricks When exactly do you think that building stopped being built out of these materials in Egypt? Or in any of the other civilizations you have in mind here? - > with zero prior knowledge of mining, metallurgy, or metal refinery and processing I can't speak as well to other civilizations, but in Egypt metal was used in the predynastic period. Copper objects are known from the Badarian culture - which predates the types of monumental stone constructions you show here. - Do you have dates for the introduction of architectural cramps in Egypt? The earliest that I'm aware of date from the Old Kingdom, well after people in Egypt were familiar with and working with metals.

Reply

Reply to Post

76 Comments