IMO if you’re an enthusiast this has to be a top 5 car on sale at the moment. There’s better stuff out there but nothing hits the intersection of looks, practicality, affordability, and pure fun like this car. Aside from the numb steering which everything has, it is a riot on the street.
228 hp and 7500 rpm is plenty too, tired of all the power comments
I almost bought one earlier this year as a sporty daily, but ended up with an M2 instead as it’s a much more livable car. I had 3 complaints with the GR86
> Placement of the hand brake. I literally kept hitting my funny bone the 4 times I got into the driver seat of one
> Cupholder or armrest? I want to have both, I get it’s a small car, but I want to be able to grab coffee on my way to work and rest my arm.
> Slow/Crappy infotainment: Not as important on a weekend car, very important on a daily and getting used to how good the Ford and Porsche systems are…
> No heated wheel
There were a few other minor things, but those I could get over. Pricing wise, hard to go wrong, although I think I was quoted almost $40k OTD, but not a whole lot thsts under $35k OTD these days. The M2 is of course a much more expensive car, like double, but as much as I would like to save money, I didn’t have a strict budget constraint other than being under $120k, and I didn’t want to buy something and get sick of it after the honeymoon period is over. My commute involves a lot of traffic, so daily livability was very important to me. If it was more backroads at a good pace, I might’ve gone with the GR86.
So I was about to buy a new BRZ to complement my GTI but man, I didn't have the excitement I was hoping for with the BRZ.
Obviously, it handles well and being manual, was a much more involved experience, but I think because im so used to the low-end torque of a turbo in my GTI, I missed havign that extra push coming out of a turn.
Again, the BRZ is a great car and I think my GTI alone has plenty of power as-is, but I think im just used to having more low-end torque.
Putting your foot to floor and feeling the lsd kick in coming out of a turn is one of the best feelings in this car. also the fact you dont have to slow down a whole lot to take a turn, i find that very engaging
That's true. Ultimately, im realizing I don't appreciate that as much as I thought I would/should, though objectively, that is exactly what makes it a drivers car.
Not going to lie. After this, I think ill test drive it again. I was at a shitty dealership and I may have been looking for an excuse not to buy from them, so I may have been biased.
I own a 2023 and i don't turn off traction control often, but when i do i keep managing to accidentally hit the traction control buttons with my elbow when i'm shifting and turn the traction control back on mid corner.
Toyota, can you please move the traction control buttons to a better place?
I have a Gen 1 and bought it last year. I was genuinely surprised at how quick it felt despite all of the comments shitting on the engine. I agree with what you say, I didn't really how well these cars drove and how there is nothing else that really compares. I fell in love with it.
People dont realize its a sub 3,000 lb car. This thing would straight up feel dangerous and scary if it had a 330hp turbo I4 in it 😅 I dont like the look of the Gen 2s so I think I'll just keep what I have and eventually just do a Gen 2 engine swap.
After watching G&G do their swap I desperately want a first gen with the bigger engine. I like how the second gen looks a little more but the first gen steering is nice
I feel like swapping in the FA20DIT from a VA WRX would be a good swap for the gen 1 cars because the motor is essentially just a turbo version of the stock FA20 but it has more 268hp which is plenty enough for these cars.
I'm curious about the 25+ because GrassRoots Motorsports felt the steering was 'better'
Though with aggressive alignment and 200TW I think my '24's steering is fiine.
>People dont realize its a sub 3,000 lb car. This thing would straight up feel dangerous and scary if it had a 330hp turbo I4 in it
Yeah, I thought the GR Yaris engine would be cool, mainly because it's a 1.6L and would better echo the theme behind the original 86. Even going to 260hp(instead of the GR Corolla's 300hp) with the added torque would be massive. It's almost too much for a standard trim, and you'd miss out on the sweetness of the NA package. If they could increase production and do another trim, then it could make a little sense.
Dude the Gen1 BRZ is f-ing slow no matter how you cut it. I was daily driving an NC Miata when I first had a spin in an FRS and I walked away going “yup, everyone is right”.
I wouldn't say that its slow. Its definitely not fast. I guess it depends on your perspective.
I had a MT Scion tC and that was slow. Legitimately had problems if you were trying to pass people. After that I got a GT350 which was just no comparison, and then I got a CTR which is the same.
I have a 2018 BRZ so its the refreshed one, dont know what really was changed from when it came out, maybe the tires but it feels significantly faster the ny Scion tC which was slow.
The refresh was new front and rear facia as well as a suspension tweak.
The Scion tC (which shared the Corolla platform) had 20-45 less HP and torque, is FWD and weighs like 200lbs more than the BRZ/FRS/86.
My '20 86 was night and day from my 5MT Jetta that would slow down on highway on-ramps despite my foot being buried in the floor and me playing with gears to hit peak power. That Jetta had 110hp despite being 3300 lbs. THAT was slow.
I had an 2.5L w/cams at one point with stock grand touring, NC1 suspension. The entire car would raise in the air when you floored it. So stupid. Miss that POS.
A second reduction in 0-60 time isn’t a trivial ask. If you’re going from 13s to 12s sure, but shaving a second from a mid 5 second 0-60 car from an already pretty stressed engine (from performance, emissions and reliability standpoint combined) is a HUGE ask.
High 4, low 5s is basically the time of the manual Z, yknow, the one with a twin turbo v6…
From a dig it’s mid 5s in the magazine tests. 2nd ends right at 60 in these cars. I figure with slightly shorter gearing it would feel more peppy in real life at the expense of the 60 time/fuel economy.
Id trade the slightly higher COG for a much more robust inline engine oiling system. The Miatas have a plenty low COG with an inline engine, and they get a +-1.5G oiling out of the box.
Subaru nor Toyota are willing to invest the money into head side scavenge pumps like Porsche started to with the 987.2 - before they did that, just like with the FA24, we get big oil pressure drops on extended corners. I had to accusump my 987.1 to handle 200 treadwears, and ill probably have to do the same to the GR. My last oil analysis with a cooler + overfill + 0w40 didn't bode well, sill ill have to keep tinkering with it.
Hmmm. Interesting. I don't recall seeing that anywhere, do you have a link?
A pressure drop isn't necessarily the end of the world, so long as sufficient pressure is maintained. The key is if the pressure drop gets to dangerous levels. Everything I've seen indicates it doesn't cause problems in street cars, especially with a mild overfill.
> Subaru nor Toyota are willing to invest the money into head side scavenge pumps like Porsche started to
You forgot the second part of doing this, which is that it drastically increases the price of these cars
Realistically they could increase the sump capacity like what aftermarket oil pans do. Or improve/add more internal baffling than they've already done. My bet is they are hamstrung by eco rules because that was the reason for decreasing the oil capacity from the first gen in the first place
Subaru already puts a head scavenge pump on the FA24 in the WRX, but its used for turbo feed - they would just need to add oil deaeration swirl pot, which is not a compex device.
not sure what you mean. the turbo is lower than the oil pan in the wrx, that's why it needs a scavenge pump. it cant rely on gravity to feed oil from the turbo back to the sump. what are you proposing the scavenge pump would do on an NA engine?
The same thing it does on Porsches naturally aspirated engines since the 987.2.
The oil pressure issues are caused by two things:
1. Oil sloshing away from pickup (resolved by baffles - this is why inline engines can get away with just baffling and good pickup design)
2. Oil accumulating in the heads, because its a flat engine, after getting pumped to the heads, oil has slide down much shallower ramp to make it back to the sump - under lateral Gs, oil can start getting trapped in heads, because that oil has to go down that long shallow ramp while getting pressed back to the heads from the lateral Gs. So your pickup starts breathing air, and air gets pumped into your rod bearings instead of oil. In inline engies, the oil return passages form basically a straight line down to the sump.
I'm aware of the issue, but you seem to be conflating scavenge pumps for turbos (different purpose, not meant to solve oil starvation issues) with scavenge pumps on an integrated dry sump system like on porsches. You're basically suggesting subaru should implement an integrated dry sump system. Yeah, I have my doubts they're doing that without substantially raising the price point
While there are Porsches with integrated dry sumps, the majority of Porsche engines use head scavenge pumps with a traditional wet sump. Hence why they call them semi-dry sumps. They aren’t complicated multistage setups. It’s literally just a wetsump with powered oil return in the heads.
Cam driven, single stage cap pumps just like what Subaru uses.
https://lnengineering.com/99710702105-oem-porsche-scavenge-engine-oil-pump/?srsltid=AfmBOorrx82xfpN02wGlBN7EfihkORSWjbHepMPcTDgMk-kXTZ2UhgdiLg8
You are describing the same thing. Given that the m96/m97 engines with this design still oil starves, i dont know what purpose this would serve.
people critique problems based on established baselines. they dont go "oh well, the problem could have been worse" and praise manufacturers for not doing a worse job. in its current state, people freak out about oil starvation (overblown for vast majority of track drivers). if subaru added any theoretical scavenge pump that made the problem less severe but still existent, that isnt going to move the needle in a favorable direction. the critique becomes "wow subaru added scavenge pumps and it still oil starves. what are they doing".
i'm going to take a wild stab and say these are the trade offs the engineers took into consideration at this price point and for the vast majority of use cases which is street driving. especially when proper oil cooling and overfill mitigates most of the issue on track
end of the day, people obssess over this 'issue' when plenty of hardcore track enthusiasts compete in their 86 with no problem. some people just shouldnt own boxers because they cant get past that anxiety. they should just move on and get something else and worry about different sets of problems
Would the FA24DIT WRX (not the cam driven FA20), which pulls oil for the return from the front left side timing cover with a pump, which doesnt show the right-hand turn pressure drops, be considered an established baseline?
Not really. We already established the scavenge pump is there for different reasons. it's out of necessity due to the turbo location. the bigger reasons oil starvation concerns arent as severe on the wrx are a) the redline is much lower, b) different pick up tube/oil pan geometry, c) they arent tracked as often
The critical piece is still raising the cost regardless of the amount, when a simple overfill accomplishes about as much. Take a look at the GR Corolla forum thread on oil pressure drops around Sonoma. Take a look at 555 Engineer's post on oil pressure drops around Thunderhill. Inline config, significantly more expensive and better built motor, still experiences oil pressure drops
I dont think its been established that it doesn't *help* \- especially after we've done a million variations on oil pans, oil overfills, and baffles and still see oil pressures dipping into the low-30s @ 6000rpm, albeit briefly with high capacity baffled pans + overfill.
At the end of the day - your right, I guess it was naive of me to expect an oiling system as robust as my old $500,000 Mazda Miata in my $35,000 sports car no matter what engine geometry its using.
We can just agree to disagree. Love that you just gloss over GR Corollas. I can go on all day about miatas. But yea let's go with the subaru bad narrative. Yeah.
I guess the Corolla also having shit oiling makes it better for our cars - ill add a note to blackstone on my next analysis that its a-ok, because the Corolla also lacks a good oiling setup.
As I said before, engines *before* 987.1 Cayman didn't use auxiliary head scavenge pumps. That began with the MA1 series engines in the 987.2 - which *does not* have the same issues as the M96/M97.
[A common modification on M96/M97s as adding an auxiliary head scavenging pump, like used by the MA1. ](https://forums.pelicanparts.com/boxster-cayman-forum/588354-ttp-oil-saver-system.html)
Subaru already puts scavenge pumps for the turbo return on the turbocharged variants of the FA24 - the only thing its missing is pan swirl pots for de-aerating the oil for non-turbocharged applications.
The stock cooling system is totally fine? The 2nd gen has an oil-to-water heat exchanger that does a pretty good job of keeping oil temps in check, and the primary cooling system is very robust. Standard coolant temp is 194, and I don't think I've ever seen it reach even 200 under spirited driving.
Sure, if you're tracking you'll probably want a dedicated air-to-oil cooler, but that's a pretty minor nitpick.
Is this coolant temp or oil temp?
Coolant is totally fine as you mentioned, but I reguarly hit ~230f oil temp in the summer just based on the BRZ's bar meter. And given the location of that sensor that could be conservative. Not an uncommon issue to address in the aftermarket here in Northern California.
It's a great handling car but annoyong when other cars like the ND Miata are engineered to keep their OEM recommended oil in check.
You're right that oil can get pretty warm. I just finished a spirited drive down some local backroads, and I was regularly sitting in the 220s to mid 230s. The peak oil temp I saw was 242 I think? Of course, that's why I run 5W30, so I can push up to 250 or so before backing off. (Which according to many people online is *still* leaving plenty of safety margin)
> just based on the BRZ's bar meter
I have a GR86, so with PCB turned off in track mode, I get numerical readouts. I did actually measure/compare a while back, so if you're curious I can dig up the comment and tell you exact locations on the bar graph for various temperatures. 230 is dead center (right over the thermometer sticking out of the oil can icon), and my hazy recollection is that before the left edge of "270" is 250.
> And given the location of that sensor that could be conservative.
Yeah, it's right after the cooler, so pan temp is probably a bit higher. Still, my understanding is that any car will get the oil pretty hot under sustained high RPM. Sure, boxers have two heads and two valvetrains, but I didn't think it was much worse than other cars.
I suppose my question is how hot most other oils get? Most cars I see online seem to run similar temps, 190-210 normally and 230+ under heavy load. That includes stuff like the Elantra N and Mustang. I recall German cars often run a bit hotter, including the Zupra. Some quick searching online indicates the ND Miata doesn't even display oil temperatures as stock, and actually has a "high temp range" setting for coolant...which the FA24 doesn't need, since I've never seen coolant break 200 if I was actually moving enough to get airflow over the rad. That to me would seem to indicate weaker OEM cooling on the Miata than the 86.
I ponder how much of the "oil temp issue" on our cars is people just being paranoid because they actually have a temperature gauge that's always displayed as standard.
_well technically_ there is an NA version of the G16.
but yeah NA is the way to go for the twins. if you really need more then you modify and tune it yourself as toyota and subaru always intended.
As someone who owns (and loves) both, the i3 from the GRC would ruin the BRZ/86. Boost comes on way too fast so you’d be spinning the rear wheels 100% of the time.
I don’t think the twins need more power tbh, they’re practically perfect as-is!
god no, boxer is a unique engine with good sound
im afraid highly boosted inline 3s are gonna be the new 4L twin turbo V8s
neither of them sound good imo
bring back the fucking ~~v10s~~ v12s
What are your favorite exhaust clips for the updated twins? I would not characterize almost any of the ones I’ve heard IRL as having “good sound”. Not to mention, I cannot fathom criticizing the relatively uncommon I3 against the Subaru flat 4, which is basically ubiquitous in the Northeast and Mountain West US.
They sound about as a good as any car with a quality exhaust set up. So above average sounding at best i.e. I wouldnt say they have "good sound" either. When you rev it up it just gets louder but there's nothing particularly exciting or inspiring about the sound
? The GR has equal length headers so just sounds like a 4 cylinder.
Ill trade 4 cylinder sound for not having the flat engine G-force induced oiling problems.
That’s a part of the appeal of these cars. A bespoke engine platform and distinct feel. A special appeal to enthusiasts but not many others. Basically everything else in the category puts some variation of the corporate I4 in their performance cars.
the miata engine honestly sounds great for a 4cyl. it revs high and doesn't have that annoying vacuum cleaner sound.
but yeah. Nissan Z is a 6cyl and sounds like dog.
Very fair. I like how brz sound with exhaust work but I hate how loud they are and how oboxinous their drivers are. Though I'm a weirdo, I hate hearing other people's motors in traffic during a weekday, but absolutely love hearing them otherwise haha. I really like cars that are quite at low rpm and sound awesome at high rpm, like a miata haha.
If you want to stretch the definition in the modern sense, yes, you can push it out to include what we drive - however, one can also argue that both my GR and your EN both are adaptations of cars not designed as sports cars, and thus aren't true sports cars. My RX-8 is a grey zone, since it is a dedicated chassis, but I still consider it a sports sedan and not a sports car, since the classic definition of a sports car is a small two seater car with the focus on driving above all else, where my RX is a bit of a sedan compromise.
TLDR, the definition has been blurring in more recent years, but traditionally it was always dedicated two seater cars. Depends on if who you ask adheres to the old definition or not.
squares are all rectangles but not all rectangles are squares
sports sedans are sports cars but not all sports cars are sedans, the RS6 Avant is a sports car, the M4/M5 sedans are sports cars, the Civic Type R is a sports car
It's not a capability thing, just whether or not you adhere to the old definition of a sports car, which was a two seater, purpose built car focusing on driving performance/feel above all else.
Just throw on UEL headers, and you got yourself one of the best sounding 4 cylinders on the market.
https://youtube.com/shorts/LcSjc-4UR4o?si=7soOXYzJ95c_aUd6
I really like this car and am considering getting it as my next car, but the infotainment is getting a bit dated.
Compare it with the entire rest of the Toyota and Subaru lineup and it's noticeably older.
I suppose it helps keep the price down though, so I should probably be thankful for that.
There's nothing *inherently* wrong with it, but by comparison, it's not as nice. The screen is smaller and lower resolution. Personally, I prefer the screens higher up on the dashboard too as I think it's easier to see when using navigation.
It's still a point of comparison even if it (rightfully) isn't the main one.
I came from a car without android auto and while it can be a little finicky or slow sometimes, it's absolutely fine most of the time.
Yeah, it's not the prettiest or brightest display, but it works. I'll happily trade slightly dated infotainment for the price point and physical controls for all the important things.
Fundamentally, it's an updated platform that dates back to the early 2010s, but that means you can actually work on it without absolutely hating yourself, and it's an absolute joy to drive.
I put Android Auto on it through a wireless dongle and it's good. It's a sub 35k dedicated sports car man. The super low dash with nothing blocking your view is amazing for looking ahead in autocross, for example.
Nah, Millennial Green is like a nice earthy green, and more saturated. My one wall is painted … uh … I think it’s called Hidden Gem from Behr.
Zinc Green from Mazda is way too desaturated, and I’m wondering if it’s just crappy press photos of theirs. All their press photos are weirdly washed out.
I’m so torn on millennial green. On the one hand, I’ve loved this colour for years and had used it in my own architecture designs and seeing it become popular makes me happy, but on the other hand, it’s being used so poorly and just slapped everywhere is not enjoyable.
That’s why I’m glad I only use it for accents. I have an accent wall in Hidden Gem from Behr and a green couch. The rest of my stuff is warm woods tones, beige or a dark brownish black.
Millennial green is quickly become its own “I’m not like the rest of them” type of cookie cutter but I’m still doing backflips when I see anything breaking the greyscale trend in cars and like you said, for some reason home decor
It’s funny… I am an Elder Millennial and I’ve always ever driven silver (4), black (2) or white (3) cars, but LOVE colorful clothing, and personal accessories
…and I also would have bold, vivid color in my house if my also-Elder-Millennial wife didn’t make every single FUCKING SURFACE OF OUR HOME beige, gray, or greige.
Nardo Gray is a nice color, as are the other grays. It just shouldn't be the only type of color we get. Everything moves in cycles, though. JNCO's made a come back because skinny jeans were lame and for old people, so will bright colored cars.
"Ugh, dad drives a Nardo Gray car. I want a harlequin Golf!"
The oiling issues are frustrating for people that track their cars. Them coming out with updates and not addressing it is pretty disappointing, personally.
And introduce all new ones with aeration and tons of oil going into the PCV system. Overfilling is a bandaid. Super 200s and being even moderately fast shouldn't be risk factors for a sports car that's marketed as track capable.
I don't understand why thinking Subaru needs to update their pan and sump is controversial.
We don’t know if t a sump/pan update will do it - as the aftermarket deep dumps with baffling haven’t been shown to resolve the issues.
It’s likely an oil-return issues due to the lack of head scavenge pumps like all of the Porsches since the 987.2 have.
Before they added those, the Cayman showed the same oiling issues in the 987.1.
Lots of people are - just like on 987.1s - I had an accusump on my Cayman and ill probably need one on my GR.
Its always been a bandaid for poor factory internal oil control. They come with their own downsides. I've seen a few accusump oil fountains in the pits.
How about we leave it alone and add yellow to the lineup so it isnt so damn boring... please stop with the Grey. Im a millennial and I hate these grey/black/white/boring blue color schemes we keep getting FOR EVERY CAR. Give us some color. Its a sports car!!! Bring back neptune with the red interior!!!
You can go pick up a brand new GR86 or BRZ in Yellow(2026 GR86 Yuzu Edition, and 2026 BRZ Series.Yellow).
Neptune would be cool to bring back.
If you want that older red interior that came with Neptune, you can pick up a BRZ Limited, which comes with the same red seats.
> You can go pick up a brand new GR86 or BRZ in Yellow(2026 GR86 Yuzu Edition, and 2026 BRZ Series.Yellow).
That’s technically true but that window is closing fast. There are like 4 Yuzu’s for sale and less than 30 new Series.Yellow in the entire country.
I want one of these so badly since I live in AZ and can actually own a RWD vehicle compared to when I lived in CO.
Unfortunately I also want creature comforts…a sunroof, vented seats and some upgraded speakers.
Im in CO now and these cars are even more fun in the snow than the dry honestly.
Some footage footage from my last run @ the [Roaring Forks snow time trials. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/GR86/comments/1bd4l5g/had_an_awesome_time_at_the_roaring_forks_snow/)
Oh RWD is fun as hell to whip around in the snow, used to have a mustang I’d go balls to the wall in in empty parking lots…but not commuting every day in it. Used to drive from northglenn to greenwood village and that drive every time it snowed sucked SO bad.
Things like this is why I went with a stinger GT2 vs the faster pony cars, they handle a lot better but I was more than happy to give that up for having basically everything else I could want at a 30k price.
Tbh it’s more likely I go honda accord or an acura or something. I don’t necessarily WANT rwd, just is an option. I’d honestly prefer AWD because i like taking roadtrips into the mountains during the winter time.
My 25 WRX(6 speed) has it.
It has a Camera in the black strip of piano black above the infotainment, I covered it up, and have it off through the software.
Issue is, if you want to use adaptive cruise control + steering assist you have to have the camera on with hands on the wheel to make sure you aren't just letting it drive you.
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