MS90 is for failing to identify a driver. It's not for speeding, although it can be for failing to respond to the notice.
Failing to update your car's address is a strict liability (no defence possible) offence, so there would reasonably be punishment for that, as it does sound like you have committed an offence, albeit not one that leads to penalty points/driving ban.
With the MS90 it's often an indicator of very serious "you are a homicidal maniac" type driving, because it's better to name the driver and get 3 points than suffer the 6 points for MS90, so is likely to lead to massive surcharges on your insurance. If you need to renew insurance you would need to disclose the MS90s now you are aware of them, and if you don't then that's another criminal offence - fraud.
An MS90 is just the offence when you don't identify the driver. It does not signify any sort of offence. It can be for 35mph in a 30mph zone, if you do not respond to the NIP - which is what has happened here.
MS90 is failing to identify a driver. It carries six points.
2x MS90s will get you a ban.
Do not plead guilty or admit liability.
You need to offer to plead guilty to the original speeding offences on the basis that they will drop the MS90s - which they will do.
The issue you may have (can't remember what you said in the post) is that they only have six months to prosecute a speeding offence and if that time period has lapsed then you are stuck with 2x MS90s.
You may be able to provide (with the help of a solicitor) what's called a statutory declaration of ignorance, which is you essentially swearing on oath that you had no idea proceedings were going on for X reason (you moved house). Whether this will work, I am unsure. If it does, the police will accept it and then re-issue 2x NIP letters. If it doesn't.....
Expect a day in court. I did, when facing a totting up ban, and managed to persuade the magistrates to drop the MS90, and reopen the original speeding offence so that I could plead guilty to it. Saved my bacon, but cost me £2,500 for a solicitor to assist me.
It's a separate offence that the DVLA basically never prosecute for. The statutory declaration will almost certainly reset proceedings to as if the orignal offences were received at their original date.
If you plead hardship they'll let him keep his licence. You can kill people but if you choose to use a car to do it with then the worst you'll get is a stern look.
But I will say thought that if his licence was not revoked at the court case, then it won’t be. The court process cannot be sped up but the wait time does vary depending on the court - it’s unlikely to take the full six months.
Its a legal requirement to update his address for his license and V5 for the car. Its not an excuse not doing so, given its an offense not to update this information. Has he updated the address now?
Yes the address has been updated for over 6 months now so not sure why this is the first letter we're getting at this address. We had a lot going on while we were in the process of moving with me in surgery/recovery during the offence taking place - not an excuse but that was his reason for forgetting to update the address on time
Just to add, my client issues work vans but runs DBS checks for all employees. In instances where the individual has been up front they have always proceeded with the offer and giving them a van etc.
You should ask in r/legaladviceuk, I'm not sure on the timescales but I think you can make a statutory declaration to reset the case back to the start and then exchange pleading guilty to the speeding in exchange for the MS90s being dropped.
If you moved before the offences occurred why didn’t you update your license and V5 to make sure everything was sent to the correct address? You’re right that no letters were received, but that is ultimately due to not updating the address correctly.
I think your best case is to wait for their response and try to explain in court the hardship it would cause.
Agree - it is your duty to update addresses for this kind of thing. In fact you can incur a £1000 fine if you don’t tell the DVLA you have moved. There will probably be a grace period but as you seem to have moved over a year ago, this may have passed.
You're right that we didn't update the address on time but we've had a lot going on our plates as I was in hospital during our move and in recovery afterwards during the time of the offence so I'm assuming because of everything going on it slipped my husbands mind. Not an excuse but it was a genuine reason for not updating on time
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WheresWalldough@reddit
MS90 is for failing to identify a driver. It's not for speeding, although it can be for failing to respond to the notice.
Failing to update your car's address is a strict liability (no defence possible) offence, so there would reasonably be punishment for that, as it does sound like you have committed an offence, albeit not one that leads to penalty points/driving ban.
With the MS90 it's often an indicator of very serious "you are a homicidal maniac" type driving, because it's better to name the driver and get 3 points than suffer the 6 points for MS90, so is likely to lead to massive surcharges on your insurance. If you need to renew insurance you would need to disclose the MS90s now you are aware of them, and if you don't then that's another criminal offence - fraud.
zephyrmox@reddit
An MS90 is just failing to identify. It has nothing to do with the severity of the offence, what are you on about?
Failing to update is a completely separate offence which the DVLA basically never prosecute for.
WheresWalldough@reddit
MS90 is 6 points, so if you've just been accused of doing 38 in a 30mph zone you'd name the driver, and get the 3 points
OTOH if you're accused of doing 60mph in a 30mph zone then that would typically be an instant ban, so going MS90 becomes more attractive.
zephyrmox@reddit
An MS90 is just the offence when you don't identify the driver. It does not signify any sort of offence. It can be for 35mph in a 30mph zone, if you do not respond to the NIP - which is what has happened here.
TedBurns-3@reddit
Unfortunately it is your responsibility to keep your address up-to-date, generally don't get let off for life things at the time.
zephyrmox@reddit
You absolutely do. The UK does not punish people for offences compounding - failing to update an address does not make you guilty of other offences.
GreenEmergency1752@reddit
MS90 is failing to identify a driver. It carries six points.
2x MS90s will get you a ban.
Do not plead guilty or admit liability.
You need to offer to plead guilty to the original speeding offences on the basis that they will drop the MS90s - which they will do.
The issue you may have (can't remember what you said in the post) is that they only have six months to prosecute a speeding offence and if that time period has lapsed then you are stuck with 2x MS90s.
You may be able to provide (with the help of a solicitor) what's called a statutory declaration of ignorance, which is you essentially swearing on oath that you had no idea proceedings were going on for X reason (you moved house). Whether this will work, I am unsure. If it does, the police will accept it and then re-issue 2x NIP letters. If it doesn't.....
Expect a day in court. I did, when facing a totting up ban, and managed to persuade the magistrates to drop the MS90, and reopen the original speeding offence so that I could plead guilty to it. Saved my bacon, but cost me £2,500 for a solicitor to assist me.
zephyrmox@reddit
This is the only post in this thread that OP should pay attention to.
BastardsCryinInnit@reddit
Big question is - did your husband never change his address with the DVLA or V5 log book?
Cos that is also an offence in itself!
zephyrmox@reddit
It's a separate offence that the DVLA basically never prosecute for. The statutory declaration will almost certainly reset proceedings to as if the orignal offences were received at their original date.
T_M4321@reddit (OP)
No he did, I agree it took some time but only because we had a lot going on at the time
BastardsCryinInnit@reddit
But did he do it before the offences occured?
As everything has happened, all your husband can do is try and provide some context and hope the court has some sympathy.
zephyrmox@reddit
Ignore most people here talking about the DVLA licence update. That is a seperate offence - failing to do it does not make you guilty of DS90s.
In all likelihood what will happen is that post statutory declaration the offences will be 'reset' to as if you just received them.
jonathing@reddit
If you plead hardship they'll let him keep his licence. You can kill people but if you choose to use a car to do it with then the worst you'll get is a stern look.
awkwardandroid@reddit
I would advise direct messaging me!
But I will say thought that if his licence was not revoked at the court case, then it won’t be. The court process cannot be sped up but the wait time does vary depending on the court - it’s unlikely to take the full six months.
mturner1993@reddit
Its a legal requirement to update his address for his license and V5 for the car. Its not an excuse not doing so, given its an offense not to update this information. Has he updated the address now?
T_M4321@reddit (OP)
Yes the address has been updated for over 6 months now so not sure why this is the first letter we're getting at this address. We had a lot going on while we were in the process of moving with me in surgery/recovery during the offence taking place - not an excuse but that was his reason for forgetting to update the address on time
mturner1993@reddit
It's been almost a year, so the lack of reply within the first few months would've been it.
I would speak to citizens advice urgently if I were him about what he can do to rectify. Better than any advice given on here.
-Rhymenocerous-@reddit
I have a DG10 on my licence and its not stopped me from being issued a work van in my last two jobs.
T_M4321@reddit (OP)
Do you know how long it takes for the court to get back to you ? They told us it can take upto 6 months
Key-Seaworthiness227@reddit
Up to 6 months, as the court advised you. They have many cases on.
Winston_Carbuncle@reddit
Just to add, my client issues work vans but runs DBS checks for all employees. In instances where the individual has been up front they have always proceeded with the offer and giving them a van etc.
cloud__19@reddit
You should ask in r/legaladviceuk, I'm not sure on the timescales but I think you can make a statutory declaration to reset the case back to the start and then exchange pleading guilty to the speeding in exchange for the MS90s being dropped.
SCWeak@reddit
If you moved before the offences occurred why didn’t you update your license and V5 to make sure everything was sent to the correct address? You’re right that no letters were received, but that is ultimately due to not updating the address correctly.
I think your best case is to wait for their response and try to explain in court the hardship it would cause.
hnnnnnnnnh@reddit
Agree - it is your duty to update addresses for this kind of thing. In fact you can incur a £1000 fine if you don’t tell the DVLA you have moved. There will probably be a grace period but as you seem to have moved over a year ago, this may have passed.
T_M4321@reddit (OP)
You're right that we didn't update the address on time but we've had a lot going on our plates as I was in hospital during our move and in recovery afterwards during the time of the offence so I'm assuming because of everything going on it slipped my husbands mind. Not an excuse but it was a genuine reason for not updating on time
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