Do companies actually want IT managers?

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k0rbiz@reddit

Yes, they want an IT Manager but the real question is do they need an IT Manager? Many SMBs don't. They just contract a MSP or hire a single IT Administrator.

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natefrogg1@reddit

“We’ve always done it that way…” those are the first people to be let go when the company gets acquired. Things change over time, none of this is static, stagnation is death

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Companies do want someone to manage things they do not understand, but at the same time want to seize control by only having immediate tasks that someone can supposedly 'do'. So they do want influence, but do not want to accept the responsibility of greater tasks.

If users designed a building that they would live in they would understand that if the building were to collapse someone could die or get seriously injured. So they do accept an architect or manager doing planning with higher responsibilities.

With IT it can become a "we want technical people to respect our wishes " while not being bound by how several systems need to be checked, audited, updated etc.. PCs and Workstations are often used to seize control. "We just want someone who can..." . Or "At home I can..."

That is the way IT is.

Cloud does have advantages.

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ProfessorWorried626@reddit

50% of places you are just the fall guy.

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Autoimmunity@reddit

See this is why I enjoy the MSP and consulting game. Internal IT absolutely has it's perks, but facts are that IT is the most blamed and least thanked part of any corporate organization.

At least when you're not employed by the company you are working with you have the ability to tell the truth and fire any client who doesn't want to meet you halfway.

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russianturnipofdoom@reddit

Yep was typing something similar until I saw your comment. Also most companies know they need a more senior, higher expertise IT manager to do the strategic work, but they don't understand that you cant then turn around have that person handling tickets and house calls for the senior execs.

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TaxHazyShade@reddit

but facts are that IT is the most blamed and least thanked part of any corporate organization.

This. And, most importantly -- if you are internal IT -- once you have this tattooed on your brain, the flaming emails and yelling in your face are just kinda funny. For me, i just do the "Oh no! Anyway .." reaction, and get on with my day.

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MaleficentJunket6916@reddit (OP)

🥲 sadly I feel this is the case

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tdhuck@reddit

We have all been in your scenario at some point in time, but I just want to confirm, when you discovered these issues, did you try to bring it up to your manager and have an actual conversation? Not just 'this is not the right way to do it, so give me money' conversation, but more along the lines of 'we are violating x law' or 'by backing up to personal account x is liable if something were to happen.

Businesses WILL spend money, but the request needs to be part of the following:

Which business problem is this solving?
How much will we lose if we are down for a day (or hour)?
What is our risk with the current tech stack vs the proposed tech stack?

If you still give them these types of questions, data points, etc and they still say no, you might as well look for a new job because it isn't going to change with the current ownership.

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1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v@reddit

I agree with you. Sounds like OP did not suggest his changes as a proposal with an ROI that his bosses could understand and support.

To do things only because the IT Manager says so never gets a lot of understanding or respect.

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NUTTA_BUSTAH@reddit

Remember to cover your ass!

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alexwhit80@reddit

When things are working “what are we paying you for?”

When things are not working “what are we paying you for?”

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rairock@reddit

I love it LMAO

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SAugsburger@reddit

I have definitely been in places where the turnover for IT Manager/Director jobs seems crazy. Maybe not as high as the lowest tier jobs, but pretty high.

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Disgruntled_Smitty@reddit

As always, CYA with email chains.

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Rudager6@reddit

The other 50% they don’t actually want a “IT Manager” they want someone to do level 1/2 support but fluff up the title to get people to actually apply.

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Enxer@reddit

Mine was the ELT helpdesk. When I had to let him go all the csuite came to me. Twice they held up a project of mine.

I told them to use the helpdesk queue and we'll prioritize a good tech to them. They all get level 1 like everyone else...

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diatonico_@reddit

Lol so accurate! "We want an application owner". Responsibilities: follow up tickets, answer customer questions, solve problems within the agreed SLA's.

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badaz06@reddit

You're confusing your role as a "manager" with that of a "consultant", at least from the perspective of upper management. I've been both, and it's odd how people that ignored me as a manager took my word as gospel when I consulted.

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mehx9@reddit

The Phoenix Project anyone?

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ZaradimLako@reddit

When I experienced stuff like this, I sadly was forced to use corporate tactics and threw out any interpersonal niceness out the door for my own safety.

At this point the only thing you can do is document absolutely everything that is wrong, in written form, and send emails in written form and inform as many people as possible in power. Dont lay out all the problems, but one after the other. Make sure to write what is wrong, what is the solution for it, the potential costs etc. and the consequences of it not being implemented and if nothing is done if they are OK with the consequences of the decision. That way whenever someone complains about something, you have a written trail of absolutely everything you tried to do. Do not leave a single stone unturned, make sure to put them in a corner. I saved my ass like that multiple times, but sadly that means being vigilant and using corporation politic tactic bs instead of just genuinely trying to make your workplace a better place for everyone.

If after even then they just chat bs, move on to another job. But yeah, the only thing you can realistically do is have them backed up against the wall when the consequences of their indecision hit as they wont be able to point a finger on you since you (the expert) pointed out the flaw and they (the passive morons with 5x your paycheck) ignored it and/rejected anything you proposed.

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cdoublejj@reddit

can you elaborate or tell the stories of these ass savings? is it worth staying in these orgs and trying to avoid back stabbings 24/7?

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ZaradimLako@reddit

Nothing much to tell there. In one company i just straight out left as it would have made sense anyway to switch to progress my career.

In the others, for example my current job, there are a few people who I force to do anything in writing that is more than a hello because I got sick and tired of the he said she said bs where the burden of proof lies mostly on me even though I am not the one "raising concerns". What then happens is, the person says something completely untrue or stupid, my boss asks me wtf is going on, I screenshot and forward to him the written conversation we had, and then I never hear about it again.

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cdoublejj@reddit

i'm glad i don't mind peopling and am usually on good terms with everyone though after some time i'm starting to see where less than optimal decisions are being made or where authority wants to be for lack of better words. i just gotta get them to tell me what they want to accomplish and realize i can help but, maybe history will just keep repeating it's self. also depends on the org or client too.

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TaxHazyShade@reddit

threw out any interpersonal niceness out the door for my own job safety.

100% yes. My wife says "you seem to have a 'resting bitch face' when you're at work, but you're fine when you get home."

Source: she works at the same company i do.

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pmandryk@reddit

This is the answer. Equate this to lost revenue, downtime, lost revenue, zero productivity, lost revenue...did I mention lost revenue?

It's all C-levels understand sometimes.

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RikiWardOG@reddit

They only speak in powerpoint presentations, make sure to also bring crayons for them to eat

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Substantial-Proof617@reddit

This is great advise.

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ExceptionEX@reddit

I mean that is like asking to people like pizza, some do, some don't, sounds like you landed in a don't

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groundhogcow@reddit

Business people do not understand IT. They just know they need it.

They then want to boss it around because they are so so great.

Part of the job of the manager isn't to manage the IT. (that should be done be the people who work in IT) The job it to teach the business people how and why things need to be done in a language they understand. AKA money,

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1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v@reddit

You can suggest and propose options to change the IT envurnmenrt, but if the execs don't see a short term ROI on your changes, you will have little sucess.

Try to package your proposals as increases in Revenue, lower Costs, increases in Production Output, or increases in Customers, and you will have more success.

If you can't show any advantages (gains or losses) for your changes, or a clear alignment with company strategy, why would they be interested in your proposals?

This is how you need to think to even get considered.

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shaun2312@reddit

They do want IT Managers, but that's just a label. They want someone to perform all of the IT roles, Infrastructure, Engineering, Service Delivery and call it all your job.

Also, if something breaks in any part of IT, it's your job to fix.

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zrad603@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbGbt0n5yRw
"You have my full support to fix the problem. Unless it involves any sort of resources or decisions or effort on my part.

Remember: Money is no object. Unless, of course, you plan to spend it."

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RegularMixture@reddit

Dilbert was a guidebook submitted as a comic.

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Taur-e-Ndaedelos@reddit

Every now and then up pops in my head the fact that the guy who made Dilbert of all things, is a raging alt-right loony Trumpist. And has burned all professional bridges and lives a very angry and sad existence.
What a world.

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rabid_android@reddit

small correction "is" to "was" and "lives" to "lived"

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Taur-e-Ndaedelos@reddit

oh he died Jan this year. Was not expecting that.

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nyantifa@reddit

This is where I’m at right now. It’s a struggle

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LetSufficient5139@reddit

Depends on where you work.

Work for larger companies and its not just a label as you will have teams who do those roles.

Don't moan about it if you choose to stay where this happens.

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jmnugent@reddit

I've never been a Manager, so maybe my opinion amounts to very little. But I would say the thing I expect out of Managers is to:

Understand how the organization works
Propose improvements that are easy to understand (and not just "easy to understand" but also "easy to understand how the proposed change improves things for the better")

People talk about how your Resume should be able to be boiled down to a 30second "elevator pitch". I figure being a Manager is kind of the same. Whatever improvements you're working on should be able to be boiled down to a 1 or 2 page PPT presentation.

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My_Legz@reddit

No one wants an IT manager. Literally.

IT is a cost centre and as such has to be minimized. IT's like having a cleaning service for the office, you have one because you have to.

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throwawayPzaFm@reddit

This... most companies don't want IT anything. They just need it.

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DesignerGoose5903@reddit

Meh that's debatable in this day and age. Somehow IT is expected to ensure SOC2, ISO27001, etc. compliance, but when a customer has it as a requirement to sign the contract, suddenly IT shouldn't get any credit for making the deal possible? That doesn't make sense...

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SusAdmin42@reddit

I think this view is further perpetuated by IT leaders that lack interpersonal skills. IT is not a cost center, it’s Ops. In the modern age and in many corporate environments, you can’t run a company without IT.

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tapwater86@reddit

They need IT employees (who they can pay the least amount possible) with a manager title (so they can classify them as salary exempt and make them work free overtime).

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Hectosman@reddit

IT is a cost center so anything to minimize the cost.

Especially fun if IT reports to the finance bros.

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Public_Warthog3098@reddit

Management is always the fall guy.

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thortgot@reddit

Understanding how to position business risk effectively is how you get past these conversations.

Segmenting your network into appropriate VLANs is important. It doesnt matter to stakeholders.

Id position it as a "network overhaul to improve security".

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RikiWardOG@reddit

Man I used to have the sentiment a lot of people in this thread have but my current place of work my manger is awesome and does have a lot of say in what we do and how we do it. Does he have to still deal with plenty of C suite politics and bs, sure. But I don't think there's ever been any real push back if there's a business case for what we are asking. That all said, we are a very successful company that has basically an unlimited IT budget and we're on the small side still with less than 300 users. Culture always shifts towards more shitty imo once you start hitting closer to 1k users.

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RangerNS@reddit

Lots of companies want managers.

Very few companies want leaders.

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MaleficentJunket6916@reddit (OP)

I just wanted to post a brief reply to all this as I did no think more than 3 or 4 people would interact with this.

First of all, I'm glad I am not alone in this sentiment. Secondly, it really was just a rant, so thanks to all of you for engaging with this and for providing support and or guidance.

It's not a large company I have gone to work for, and I have plenty of support from my direct reporting manager and their manager who is on the board.

I am very maticulous with providing reasoning for my wanted changes and also provides non technical documents to help others understand.

I was just feeling frustrated as there is a small groups of change adverse people higher up in the business who didn't appreciate me suggesting we make changes to policy and tighten up access.

I have cooled off a whole lot since that initial post, but thanks to you all for engaging with this. I wish you all the best of luck with your IT careers.

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lenolalatte@reddit

our IT manager is the backbone of the team. once they leave, i'm pretty confident others would follow.

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8008seven8008@reddit

Even though I’m not in the position of IT manager myself, I’ve noticed what you’re saying. In our case, they’ve appointed someone as an “AI visionary” who has never held an IT position and has no knowledge beyond the hype and their desire to “ride the wave” generated by the topic of AI, and they’ve created their own department. And it’s not just him, many other departments are trying to bypass any rules or regulations, even if that means losing the certifications we need to work with 90% of our clients. And if you try to explain this to them, they get indignant.

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ErikTheEngineer@reddit

appointed someone as an “AI visionary”

Every big Gartner-esque trend has these coattail-riders who parachute in to organizations in FOMO mode. I've seen AI visionaries, digital transformation visionaries, cloud visionaries and others over a long career. I have no idea where they come from, but just go check out r/LinkedInLunatics, they're there. What amazes me is their ability to get inside the C-suite's heads and get themselves anointed the God-king expert when you can tell they're just selling the management consultant slide deck they stole off the McKinsey guy in the airport lounge.

What's interesting is they get a free pass to change whatever they want, spend any money they see fit, and don't you dare question them because we're lucky we poached this guy from (other big company or consulting firm.) Assuming knowledge work survives, which is in doubt now, the next trend will bring another one of these guys.

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8008seven8008@reddit

The funny thing is that this “AI visionary” doesn’t come from some an outside company; he was just a product manager in the editorial department who had been brown-nosing the executives for years.

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mineral_minion@reddit

I heard a bigwig in our company explain that we need marketing consultants because, "AI is great at telling you what other people are doing, but we want to be doing something different".

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linuxlifer@reddit

As others have said, in a lot of scenarios you come into that role and you are expected to essentially manage within the environment they currently exist and when problems arise, you are the guy that takes the blame even though you proposed solutions that would have avoided those problems.

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sceez@reddit

For me, in Ops, the manager needs to make agreed upon changes. My experience, they come in and just want to do what they did at their last job. Switching ticketing systems cause they don't like reporting in our current one or whatever excuse. Change for changes sake sucks

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Denver80211@reddit

Companies never hire you to bring new ideas and change what they already do.

They hire you to keep doing what they already did better.

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smoothvibe@reddit

IT management often just is a punching ball, especially when the CEO isn't IT-savvy or thinks of IT just as a cost location.

A bit like when working at helpdesk, but further up.

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BadEgg1951@reddit

sometimes companies want an IT manager but hey don't actually want change. They want you to fix the problems just not the habits that caused them

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temotodochi@reddit

Yes because someone has to herd the cats.

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TrippTrappTrinn@reddit

A person with the "IT manager" title can be anything from a team lead to a person in the company management team.

A person not in close interaction with the management team is not a real IT manager, just a support person with a nice title.

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cmack@reddit

No. 95% of managers are worthless, imho

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bythepowerofboobs@reddit

Especially when you are a new manager, trust has to be earned. When someone comes in and starts wanting to make a lot of changes to a system that has been mostly working that always is going to raise a few red flags.

Are you just stating what you want to do? Or are you justifying your suggestions and backing them up with explanations, multiple quotes, etc.

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SevaraB@reddit

“IT Manager” with no direct reports is a huge red flag. It tells you they’re buttering you up with an inflated title in preparation to bury you in BS. At least when they title you a technician or analyst, there’s no illusion of you having any influence on direction.

If you talk to your boss, I strongly suspect they’ll tell you your OKRs (objectives and key results) are centered around response time and incident recurrence- not a peep about streamlining operations and if there’s any mention of cost reduction, it’ll be a vague, unqualified statement about supporting productivity by minimizing downtime.

You can dig yourself out of this hole, but you have to do it by learning to speak language the business suits understand. You have to learn to reframe IT “expenditures” as “investments,” which means you need to show them what benefits they’ll be getting in return for their investment, preferably with a dollar figure (or your local currency if not in the US) attached.

In the end, all they care about is making sure money in is more than money out, and this is why bigger shops have separate IT managers and project managers who are just there to translate the IT work into money terms for the business suits.

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travelingjay@reddit

What exactly are their complaints? How have you gone about explaining why these problems or problems? What solutions have you offered, and how have you talked about implementing them to keep things as smooth as possible if not better after change? What kind of relationships have you built with these people? Have you looked at their problems and tried learning how to make their lives easier with little wins to create trust and credibility?

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Maro1947@reddit

Apparently not nowadays

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rose_gold_glitter@reddit

I don't think most companies want any staff.

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TeamInfamous1915@reddit

The Sr leaders of SMBS often hire someone to manage their IT to save face for there years of neglect. You become the whipping boy for everything that goes wrong and get limited credit when things improve. Keep at it and they will inflate your job title but not your pay.

The best part is when you've finally had enough, big companies look at your job title and laugh when they see your headcount. Then it's back to Sysadmin

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Opposite_Bag_7434@reddit

OP depends on how big the company is. The company I work for now did not want an IT manager at all. We had a small helpdesk and no formal SysAdmin although 1 helpdesk member was somewhat in that role. Oh, and we had a CTO that was more managing development than anything else. No security stack to speak of, and lots of other issues.

Over the years I’ve found that small companies don’t know what they need and don’t want to implement what an IT manager knows needs to be done.

So this is how I approach this issue every time. I look for the lowest hanging fruit and deal with that first. Literally one small thing at a time. Over time we develop robust Systems Administration practices, robust identity management and robust security stacks. If infrastructure is an issue I also find a way to transition that, often one bite at a time.

My last employer had 2 IT people and no management. Maybe 60 locations. When I started everything was consumer equipment, like literally Asus routers and small consumer switches even at the corporate office. This was absolutely crazy to me, but worse were there identity management practices if you could even call it identity management. About a year later the corporate office was stable and we were beginning to roll out enterprise gear across the rest of the business units starting with new facilities and eventually updating existing infrastructure.

Where I am now things weren’t as bad but there was a ton to do. There still is a few years later but we are in a safe position and have been for most of the time I have been there.

The problem is that good IT costs good money. Many business owners and leaders may be unable to afford the investment but they also have no idea what the impact can be. Once they really start growing the need becomes more and more evident most of the time. Still, they need someone that can lead in a cost sensitive and appropriate manner.

It takes time especially if you are walking into a mess. Literally start by building trust and addressing the immediate issues that are impacting the team. The visible problems first, followed by the things that they are unaware of but that are still impacting productivity and the team. Then move on to business continuity and security. Once you are stable and reasonably secure move on to the next thing.

…

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jrandom_42@reddit

I'm a solution architect at an MSP and I deal with a number of IT managers at our customers who seem happy and empowered in their roles. A thread like this will always resonate with people who've had negative experiences, but there are some good examples out there too.

Personally I prefer MSP life because it lets me spend all my time in project mode. You can always make that switch if company politics are stifling. MSP staff don't have time for politics, we're too tired to care.

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Dr_Drizzle@reddit

After being in IT for nearly 20 years I've landed a manger who is both technical and a great manager.

All previous managers have either been okay ish in one way or another.

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some_kind_of_boogin@reddit

Companies dont want IT staff period.

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Longjumping-Cat-2988@reddit

Yep. A lot of companies say they want an IT manager but what they really want is someone to keep everything running exactly as it is and magically make the risks disappear without changing anything. What you're describing is pretty common. People are happy to hire an expert until the expert starts pointing out things that require budget, effort, process changes or uncomfortable conversations. A flat network and company data being backed up to personal cloud storage aren't preferences, those are legitimate risks. The problem is that you've moved from a technical challenge to a political one.

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BananaSacks@reddit

Do you have a compliance team? Do you have a security team? Do you have a legal team?

Does your company get audited? Do they get audited on any of their IT, data, or related systems?

If the answer to all of those is no, you're either the fall guy, or someone above has no real understanding of the risk and liability.

If your answer was yes to the above, start scheduling new-guy 1:1s with your peers.

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hankhalfhead@reddit

I see that too.

I think it takes time for leadership to see you as an asset that helps with growth and efficiency, which is the real value of an IT manager.

Start by focusing on what they want, communicate what you’re doing about it, gain trust. In parallel, talk about ‘modernisation initiatives’. People will shit talk but they also love to complain that nothing gets modernised. Doesn’t matter about the details of your initiatives, they don’t listen to detail. But while you communicate progress on their perceived objectives, tack on your own and get your own scores on the board.

You’ll still be an accessory manager tinkering on the edges until someone senior decides to engage you to start anything actually transformative.

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Dorghann-49@reddit

Je suis sur ce même type de poste et je suis dans le même constat mais pas forcément dans le même ressenti (l'expérience peux être).

Ce qu'il faut garder en tête c'est que les différentes règles de sécurité, et la logique du bon fonctionnent, les utilisateurs et encore plus les manager et cadre l'interprète comme une contrainte à leur travail.

Ce que je te conseil de faire c'est un état des lieu, puis demander à ta direction une contre expertise extérieur pour définir un plan d'action.

Ne surtout pas vouloir imposer ce qui pourtant serais logique et normal (voir réglementaire et légale), mais fourni le constat, pose les obligation légale sur le sujet si il y en a, et demande quel niveau de service ou de sécurité est attendu par la direction.

Suite à leur réponse, fait des propositions pour répondre au mieux à ce qu'ils ont demandé, et met en action la solution valider par ta direction.

Tu sera possiblement frustrer des choix fait, mais garde en tête que notre rôle est d'être force de conseil et de proposition, nous ne somme pas dans la décision.

Lorsque que quelqu'un se plaindra (il y en aura toujours), soit ta direction le renverra dans les cordes car la décision viendra d'eux, ou au pire tu aura de quoi rappeler que ce qui est mis en place est un choix de leur part et que si au final ça ne convient pas, propose de peux faire une révision des solutions mis en place, car faire et défaire c'est travailler.

Courage à toi

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Turak64@reddit

There's a difference between what companies ask for and what they a actually want. I've fallen victim of this before. They hired me to come in as their first IT staff / manager , but then didn't want me to actually change much.

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INAM_@reddit

For me its the opposite. Operations keep complaining all the time and doesn’t bother with what I’ve setup. The upper management mostly approves my measures.

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incompletesystem@reddit

Focus on Business improvement through IT. Consult with departments and demonstrate your value through project delivery. Get other department leads support your existence.

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TightBed8201@reddit

Management always wants results without additional investment.

You are to improve everything to highest standard, cut operational costs and accept every decision the make. Othewise, you are not to the "company value" standard.

Find another job.

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111111222222@reddit

Document but also contextualise the risks.

Set up a risk management program,and gain formal acceptance of when they don't want to change something.

I mean uploading work docs to personal storage is a giant risk from a legal, data compliance, and business perspective. What would happen if those documents are lost, stolen or leaked on the internet?

Are there clients that demand a certain security standard, is the org lying to them? Contracts will have stipulations that they can be ended because of materially false statements.

Also set up governance policies and standards (acceptable use etc) define what's acceptable and what's not. Build technical controls to enforce them.

You need to cover your back because something will happen and the finger will point your way.

Making them accountable for their risks and actions is the only way to get buyin a lot of the time. Non technical folk simply don't understand the impact poor cyber hygiene can have and part of the job is laying it out for them.

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serverhorror@reddit

It's a role just like any other and can mean any sort of thing. I've seen places where "IT Manager" was a full leadership role. Staff and budget responsibility, everything. Places where you were more like a "system owner", taking care if all things tech and executing it yourself. Last but not least, a tick box monkey to forward tickets to a vendor and nothing else.

It's hard to ask any question about any role given that it means completely different things in different organizations (sometimes even within the same company).

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MeetJoan@reddit

Yes, and the pattern is almost universal: companies hire an IT manager because something scared them (a near-miss, an audit, a competitor getting breached), then immediately resist every change that would actually fix the problem because change is uncomfortable. The flat network and personal cloud backup issues you flagged aren't opinions - they're textbook liability. Document every recommendation you make and every time it gets dismissed in writing. Not to be vindictive, but because when something goes wrong (and it will), you want a paper trail showing you saw it coming and were overruled.

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DesignatedControvert@reddit

Thanks ChatGPT

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ZaradimLako@reddit

Probably a bot rather than ChatGPT. But even if its a real person, wouldnt be the first time I have seen people unable to form a single coherent sentence without ChatGPT help.

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DesignatedControvert@reddit

The flat network and personal cloud backup issues you flagged aren't opinions - they're textbook liability.

That's textbook GPT imo

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Relative_Test5911@reddit

Congratulations you just got hired as the face of IT who users and management will blame you for everything. You will be a puppet for IT the business neither wants or needs but is dictated my management. Unless you have a CIO or equivalent that is on board and receptive positive change then likely going to be busing up a hill.

Seen this story time and time again in multiple orgs.

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MDParagon@reddit

I'm inclined to agree with you. My boss isn't even an IT Manager but I work with him steering the ship, which tools we should be using, which to implement and support, etc

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Bagel-luigi@reddit

Best you can do in those situations is document your findings and recommendations, everyone you informed, and who the deciding person/group was.

If shit hits the fan down the line and everyone starts looking at the IT Manager like "why were these awful practices even happening?" Then you have yourself somewhat covered.

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