Fainted twice on commercial airline flights. Concern before starting PPL training?

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moaningpilot@reddit

What were the circumstances of your faints? Were they long flights? Were you tired? Was it just a classic case of a passenger getting on a flight way out of their circadian rhythm whilst tired and dehydrated? There’s a chance the faints were partly self inflicted however there’s also a chance for whatever reason you have some kind of medical anomaly that’s triggered by the atmosphere of a commercial airliner.

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Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit

What’s your purpose for flying? If it’s for career, yikes. If it’s for fun, you’re wasting time even thinking about PPL instead of sport pilot. Google “MOSAIC sport pilot” and start researching the requirements. Be mindful either way of your fainting episodes and what caused them. I’d check that out if I were you.

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makgross@reddit

This guy is the absolute worst candidate for sport pilot. Think before you recommend that.

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Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit

The busybodies of Reddit always have opinions. He came here asking for information so I provided information that is easily learned by picking up the phone or googling for ten minutes. Whether to act legally or not are things he needs to decide on his own, which is exactly the same of you on a daily basis.

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makgross@reddit

Quit rationalizing.

You made a really stupid recommendation without thinking about it. It’s obvious.

It is not strictly his own decision. He can kill or injure others, or destroy others’ property, by following your recommendation. That makes the recommendation phenomally irresponsible.

Yes, just like driving drunk is not strictly a personal choice.

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Rictor_Scale@reddit

Agreed. It's the "carrying passengers" part which is most critical regardless of license type.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Noted. Thank you so much.

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Mobe-E-Duck@reddit

Imagine you’re boarding a plane and the captain comes on the PA with, “I’ve only passed out in airplanes,” how would you feel?

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Of course, not good. Trying to determine if anyone had a similar situation as me and was able to resolve it.

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Mobe-E-Duck@reddit

What you need to resolve is your health issue. You’re not safe, you’ll be putting yourself in danger and then anyone who rides with you. Sorry to be blunt but it’s absolutely insane to consider flying a plane until you have this completely and utterly resolved and it remains so for years.

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doctorfortoys@reddit

Even if you find out the cause, it doesn’t mean you’ll never pass out when controlling an aircraft. It seems likely to happen again.

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makgross@reddit

Depending on what the cause is, it might be controllable.

Such as a reaction to a specific drug, or dehydration.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

My only concern is that will the doctor even be able to pinpoint the exact trigger. And assume the doctor cannot, then I’m gonna assume that I’m screwed and can’t continue PPL.

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Gabriel_Owners@reddit

Seriously, you don't think unexplained fainting is a problem? Particularly when you're in an airplane? Lol

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

I know it’s a problem, but I’m curious if anyone had a similar situation and was able to resolve it.

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andrewrbat@reddit

You may have serious issues getting medical certificate. Unexplained loss of consciousness is a disqualifying factor iirc.

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LigerSixOne@reddit

Regardless of anything legal or FAA based that anyone here tells you. That CANNOT happen while you are in command of an aircraft. You need to find out why you randomly losing consciousness for extended periods of time before moving forward.

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JT-Av8or@reddit

Don’t waste your money training, you will never be medically qualified to fly.

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3inches43pumpsis9@reddit

You will absolutely not be allowed to fly until you figure that out. Just a heads up.

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iluvplanes208@reddit

Heads down in his case

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makgross@reddit

Not solo.

OP can fly as a passenger or under dual instruction without a problem. But a certificate is impossible unless that problem is figured out and controlled.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Noted, thanks.

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Discount_Confident@reddit

nor should you want to no?

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Correct. I will go to my doctor to try and figure the root cause.

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LeagueResponsible985@reddit

The operative word in the medical disqualification is unexplained. If you can explain why you passed out and the root cause of the syncopal event is not aeromedically significant, the FAA will (eventually) issue you a medical.

I had a syncopal event in a doctors office. My wife needed open heart surgery. I went with her to the consult for support. As the surgeon was reaching to an anatomically correct pull apart model of the hear to show exactly what she intended to do, I passed out. Since the surgeon's office was next to the hospital, they dumped me into a wheelchair and wheeled me over to the ED. I was then sent to a cardiologist (the same one that treats my wife) where I did a cardiac ultrasound, treadmill test, and wore a halter monitor for 48 hours. There's nothing wrong with my heart.

I went to the AME with the records from the ED and the cardiologist. I told the AME the story recounted above. The AME reviewed the records, called the Regional Air Surgeon, and 90 minutes later I had a medical certificate. I was successful because I did the tests called for on the syncope worksheet and I could explain why I passed out.

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VolubleWanderer@reddit

Fainted or taken a nap? I am a pilot but nothing rocks me to sleep quite like a good takeoff during my commute. If im tired the rotation puts me right to sleep when im commuting.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Fainted, woke up sweating like crazy and had black/white vision.

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makgross@reddit

Sounds hypoxic. Gonna be a problem.

If you smoke, stop now.

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VolubleWanderer@reddit

Ah yeah that might be something to look into in general.

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warning_signs@reddit

Did you clear a medical before spending time flying?

From my understanding, this would be a big issue for an AME. Maybe get a consult first before?

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

I have not taken any medical exam yet. I have just been watching YouTube videos and scheduled a discovery flight.

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cfipilotmichigan@reddit

Do not go and take a medical exam until you know you will pass. At most, do a consultation with an examiner. Absolutely do not under any circumstance apply for a medical.

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segelflugzeugdriver@reddit

The guy can take a discovery flight jeez

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Odd_Entertainment471@reddit

Just get your 1st class medical before you spend a dime on training. You might want to get that fainting issue figured out before you see a DME, and let those medical records speak for themselves. Applicants say things during the medical (and most of us aren’t doctors so what we’re saying is either our uninformed opinion or our uninformed interpretation of what we were told) and cause a whole mountain of exams, testimonies, affidavits, retests, more paperwork, another retest, and 4 years and $10k later they get their medical, all because they were trying to be “open and truthful” about things. Careful…..

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iheartrms@reddit

If you go unconscious on your discovery flight, that poor underpaid low time CFI is going to shit himself and then declare a medical emergency. 😂

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altandii@reddit

Definitely go on you’re TIF and see how you feel and even see if flying an aviation is for you, because there’s an off chance you might not even like it and dont have to go you’re whole life putting it aside and wondering what if and beating yourself up that it’s a passion you could never follow through with. And if it is something you really love and enjoy then it’s definitely worth delving into to find what caused the 2 times you fainted. Happy to see you begin this journey and really hope you figure it out :)

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Fun_Supermarket1235@reddit

My dad isn’t a pilot, but he passed out so many times giving blood the Red Cross told him don’t come back to their draws 😂 which was funny because he has O.

It ended up being that he had naturally very low blood pressure. But either way you won’t pass a medical and probably shouldn’t try till you get a concrete answer about what causes it

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Pies-aviator1@reddit

Unfortunately mate, if you’re in control of the thing when you faint you won’t be waking up 15 minutes later feeling fine.

This is gonna be a huge issue with you getting a medical. If you really want to fly I’d go and get a heap of tests to figure out why it happened and try get cleared based on the answer. If it’s not something you care that much about, I’d just bin the idea of flying solo, and fly with an instructor.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Noted, thank you.

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CaliAv8rix@reddit

Forget flying, I wouldn’t even be driving a car if I had unexplained fainting episodes. For your safety and the safety of everyone around you, go see a doctor and get that figured out. Once you have a diagnosis, you can have a consultation with an AME who will tell you what your chances are and what steps you would need to take.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

I have never fainted outside of being on a plane or during blood tests. So I know there is something triggering it when I am in the air, which is why I am still driving. And yes, I will speak to my doctor.

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alexthe5th@reddit

As others already mentioned, multiple incidents of unexplained syncope is a serious problem for the aviation medical.

I hate to bring up something grim, but you should really ask yourself whether you really want to take up an activity where another fainting episode will likely result in your death, and potentially that of your passengers, if you're flying without another pilot in the right seat.

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Crusoebear@reddit

You: “Look I only passed out like two times for about 15 minutes…plus all those times I gave blood. Other than those unexplained time traveling trips to The Land of Nod - I’m a Triple Platinum Medallion with Oak Leaves member on Delta. Plus, I plan on flying higher that it takes to plummet to the earth in 15 minutes…”

AME Doc: “Oh Triple Platinum you say? Well normally this is an issue…but in that case you’re good.”

[a one part play called ‘A conversation that will never happen’]

Seriously, I wish you luck but this is concerning in so many ways & very likely a deal breaker with the FAA. Get It figured out for your own health and those around you. Even if this happened while driving it could be catastrophic.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Noted and 100% agreed.

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Mental_Durian_4431@reddit

Good on you for looking into this but until you figure out why that happened id say your biggest obstacle to getting a ppl is you lack the self preservation instinct

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EliteEthos@reddit

I’m pretty sure idiopathic syncope is a deferral and a lot of money in tests.

The fact that it happened on an airplane both times likely doesn’t bode well for you.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/Syncope_Disposition_Table.pdf

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x4457@reddit

As for the reason why I passed out twice, I'm not sure.

Yeah, so this is a problem. It's also a show-stopper for your medical until you can figure out why that happened.

Figure that out first.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

Noted. Thank you.

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acfoltzer@reddit

Here is the framework an aviation doctor will use, which will give you an idea of what will be necessary to get a medical: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/Syncope_Disposition_Table.pdf

Some might say you don't need a medical to fly gliders or airplanes as a Sport Pilot, but what you describe would, to me, be self-disqualifying. For your own safety and for your potential passengers I'd strongly recommend getting to the bottom of this before trying to solo anything. I hope it works out happily for you!

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Outside_Net6026@reddit

You’re thinking way too far ahead. See how the discovery flight goes

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DatSexyDude@reddit

if you have told a doctor about this, it's gonna be hard to overcome. If not, did you pass out? Or did you just suddenly fall into a normal restful sleep?

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21MPH21@reddit

if you have told a doctor about this, it's gonna be hard to overcome. If not, did you pass out? Or did you just suddenly fall into a normal restful sleep?

Come on man! OP has a serious problem. Do you really think that someone that's passed out, at least twice, for unknown reasons, should be flying?

Sorry, but OP shouldn't be driving a car until this gets diagnosed and resolved.

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78523985210@reddit (OP)

I def fainted for sure.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I'm in my early 30s and am seriously considering starting PPL training. I already scheduled my discovery flight for this week. I'm fit, active, and healthy.

One thing that's been on my mind is that I've fainted twice on commercial airline flights. The first time was around 2015, and the second was about a year ago. Other than those two incidents (and fainting during blood draws), I have never passed out, and I've been on hundreds of commercial airline flights throughout my life. As for the reason why I passed out twice, I'm not sure. I woke up 15 minutes later and was perfectly fine.

I haven't started flight training yet, and before I commit the time and money, I'm trying to determine if this will prevent me from getting my PPL.

Thanks in advance.

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