Updated Majors Comparison
Posted by reidmrdotcom@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 28 comments
Hello All, with Spirit going bankrupt I thought I'd update the majors tab to hopefully help a little with your job search. How is the job search going and what are you currently doing?
I have a bunch of information for the major airlines, FO and CA pay scales, estimated pay when working minimums over 10 and 20 years, Glassdoor ratings, bases, links to the hiring or company pages, and a whole bunch more.
I use publicly available data along with what folks share here and directly, so if you have something let me know please. You can should also be able to download if that helps.
Would updating the regionals be of any use to anyone? I'm thinking of working on that for next month.
No-Duck4828@reddit
That is very nice. I'm (hopefully) at my destination, but very useful for anyone still plotting their course.
One thing I saw was that some of the Max $/hr are lower than the Min $/hr. Wondering how that would work...
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Thanks. Yeah, I don't plan to leave my place unless I'm forced out! Lol.
I tried to look through it and couldn't find those errors, but I also manually type in everything for quite a few hours over multiple days, so there are likely typos. I also just added Min and Max to those two. The maximum tab for the majors is based on the highest paid airplane, while most of the rest of the numbers use the 737 or 320 for those.
Oh, I see, you are talking about the regional tab. I haven't updated that since December 2022. I think some of the American regionals had weird first year pay scales for retention or something at that time. But it's been long enough that I don't remember the specifics. Someone said a regional update would be helpful so I'll try get that done within a month. It takes me a while as it's all manually done.
No-Duck4828@reddit
No worries, just wasn't sure
Again, pretty cool of you to provide this as a resource!
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Thanks. Yeah, it's apparently something I enjoy enough, and used it myself. At this point it's just a way to give back a little, so many gave me so much advice, support, and mentorship. So it's something to do the same in a way.
TSwiftIcedTea@reddit
I would caution anyone against using profit sharing as a metric to determine your expected pay long term. There is nothing guaranteeing that companies currently posting big profits will continue to, and history tells us they most likely won’t.
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I agree. Also, most of the airlines base pay is provides a good quality of life so the money aspect of most is already taken care of. Delta has been the primary airline with consistently good profit sharing for the last decade from what I've been reading.
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
I'm trying to think of what may be helpful info. Of the big 3, Delta is the furthest along the hiring wave, followed by United, then American with a lot yet to come. Delta has been the most profitable, then United, then American barely scraping by.
There are some small cargo carriers that seem to be struggling that seem a bit risky to join, but probably are better than nothing. Western Global pops to mind. Frontier and Sun Country seem to continue to try find their market niche.
The carriers flying for Amazon seem to continue to grow.
Ornery-Ad-2248@reddit
By profitability I think it DL UA WN AS AA F9 B6
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
I had pulled the net profit of all the public major airlines I tracked from 2004 - 2018 and Spirit before then was a bit more profitable than average. Allegiant was amongst the highest percent, probably because they didn't have that bankruptcy in the time I tracked. I'm thinking of updating that as well, but all this stuff takes a long time.
I heard, but haven't confirmed, that Delta and United currently account for most of the airline profits recently.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
2004-2018 doesn’t matter
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
I also put 2010-2018 time frame, so after the bankruptcies. This all takes ages to update, but I'm considering updating through 2025. 2004-2018 is confirmed, and as far as I know, all the data I put is accurate as best as I can find. Share anything that is incorrect, and you can also download the sheet, update anything that you think needs it, and share those updates.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
What I’m saying is the airline industry is vastly different from 2010-2018
You literally can’t compare an airline from the time to an airline now.
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
I agree. It's leftover data that I just haven't updated.
I do think it's interesting though because Spirt was one example of an airline doing better than average. Before 2020 I would have thought it was a solid airline choice. Then things changed. Reminds me of many senior folks sharing that you never know if you made a good choice until you retire.
PM_ME_YOUR_PITOTTUBE@reddit
Little note: Last year UA was most profitable.
Kandranos@reddit
Would love to see the regionals data
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I'll work on it this month then.
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
I’m not even a CPL but of course regional data would be of great value, I love data.
Good job on compiling it.
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I'll plan to work in it this month. Never really know if this stuffs any use to anyone, lol. I mainly do it for something to do!
Bible-Belter-Heathen@reddit
You can update the FedEx numbers to the new contract numbers. The vote on the contract ends in a week, but I would be absolutely shocked if it doesn’t pass. The new contract starts July 1.
If I was starting over it wouldn’t be my first choice, but it’s definitely higher up than a lot of options on the list.
latedescent@reddit
UPS soon too
Shadoscuro@reddit
I know a lot of us 0 TPIC guys that planned on staying don't have anything line up and are waiting in line behind all the more qualified CAs. We're looking at regional DECs but those will probably stop if they haven't already which means being a regional FO again.
That's the rub, so seeing some comparisons at that level would be huge as a lot of us have been out of touch with that segment of the market. Who still is doing DEC or not, longevity matches, bonuses, 401k, most junior upgrade etc.
I'll admit I've tried to do everything minus seniority stuff myself but of course haven't retained it all, much less organized it into usable spreadsheets. I would definitely appreciate it, but like you said I think most in my shoes are just trying to put anything together 🤞
Several-Village5814@reddit
Ok
yeshmate@reddit
Would be nice to see the main majors the big 3 and compare them to each other in a clearer fashion.
Also total projected 5 year earnings seems unrealistic. Delta may have a 65 hour guarantee but it’s by far the easiest of the 3 to get well above that. I average 100 hours a month credit while flying close to 40-50 at 80%. Add profit sharing even with conservative estimates and I don’t see my American friends anywhere near us is total compensation.
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Thanks! When I updated a few years ago I got a similar comment. It's pretty hard to objectively measure the subjective aspects across the board. But you are absolutely right that Delta has had probably the highest profit sharing in the last decade. Delta and Ed Bastian seem to be rocking the finances!
I added this to the other notes for Delta: "High profit sharing and actual monthly credit increase real world pay." Hopefully that at least gives an idea that the lower min credit pulls those numbers down.
Do you mean the total 10 year pay? The formula for minimum 10 year pay is the sum of the year 1-5 FO hourly pay, plus the 6-10 CA pay, times the min guarantee, times 12.
I've thought of looking through those ATP forum pay discussions but that was getting too subjective. Lol.
I haven't thought about groping the majors and other companies. Hmm, I'll think about it. It is downloadable though, I think. I've never tried downloading it though.
No-Duck4828@reddit
Yes, I agree that the min guarantee isn't a terribly useful metric, but I can also see how it would be more difficult to really see how many hours pilots get on each fleet at each company
i_own_5_cats@reddit
would def be useful to have updated regionals, a lot of us are stuck there or trying to lateral around while stuff freezes up after spirit and all these slow hiring waves, finding a seat anywhere is rough now
reidmrdotcom@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I'll try to work on that by a month from now then. Kind of takes ages, lol.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hello All, with Spirit going bankrupt I thought I'd update the majors tab to hopefully help a little with your job search. How is the job search going and what are you currently doing?
I have a bunch of information for the major airlines, FO and CA pay scales, estimated pay when working minimums over 10 and 20 years, Glassdoor ratings, bases, links to the hiring or company pages, and a whole bunch more.
I use publicly available data along with what folks share here and directly, so if you have something let me know please. You can should also be able to download if that helps.
Would updating the regionals be of any use to anyone? I'm thinking of working on that for next month.
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