Renowned climate scientist shares paper warning of the potential for 0.5-1.0°C of warming within the next decade
Posted by wanton_wonton_@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 180 comments
FangFioDente@reddit
Lol this is a very conservative estimate. These scientists completely ignore the positive reinforcement cycle we released in the form of methane from permafrost thaw because they need to have hope in order to do the science in the first place. You’re boned, we’re boned, we’re all boned.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Care to supply us with your more credible estimate then?
only5pence@reddit
This tone is wholly unnecessary. Their point, I think, is that the polycrisis already has enough irons in the fire to f us within a decade and that's notwithstanding all the unknowns and black swans that could (or are likely to) occur as we pass known and unknown tipping points.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
There is a very common sentiment here, which shows up consistently, that everyone with actual expertise is either incompetent because they ignore basic facts, or they're willfully lying because of corruption, thus all of their work is laughably wrong. Comments like this are dime a dozen, and all it does is undermine professional credibility and the quality of the information being shared here,
No_Branch_5083@reddit
You're absolutely correct on all counts. This sub has a bizarrely hostile attitude towards actual science, especially if it contradicts the prevalent 'We'll all be dead by 2030' opinions.
Zayl@reddit
You're both right and tbh I think I need to block this sub.
All it's become is fear mongering. At some point it used to be about the science now it's developed into more of a fetish for the end of mankind.
No_Branch_5083@reddit
A lot of people here seem to have a death wish or complete apathy towards their lives, and cheerleading the apocalypse seems to work for them.
summercookiess@reddit
A user on here once said every human deserves maximum punishment and they got upvoted. It's extremely disturbing how this sub's misanthropy crosses over to sadism.
Obvious-Function-919@reddit
The sarcasm people sometimes use makes me roll my eyes.
No_Branch_5083@reddit
Also the general hatred of parents and resentment of children. If you went by this sub, you'd think that nobody was having children. Within my social circles (not remotely affluent), everyone is having or trying to have children, even those who are relatively collapse aware.
NihiloZero@reddit
While it's true that some of us can often be glib, it seems to me that this sub backs up a lot of what they're talking about with scientific data. And it seems to me that this sub looks at the connections between aspects of the polycrisis rather than focusing on one aspect and thinking it won't impact other aspects. Futher, I think it's of critical importance to examine the worst possibilities if there is to be any hope at all of humanity surviving. So many people defaulting to "this is fine" or "it's not so bad" is why things have continued getting so much worse.
GreenFalling@reddit
Are they experts? Or are they funded by the fossil fuel industry? It's exactly like the tobacco industry buying doctors to tell you cigarettes are slimming.
When you look at who's talking and presenting at things like COP, you begin to understand the government has been bought out by industry.
NihiloZero@reddit
Back in the day I used to say that climate science was a harder field to manipulate because there were so many widespread disparate interests and there was less motivation to lie. But, increasing (and not wholly), that may be changing. A lot of the softer models suggesting it won't be so bad... seem pretty suspicious when rivers are running dry, wheat harvests are way down, and a heat dome is sitting over our heads. Imagine pretending like we're in line for a soft landing in the same year that the Arctic experiences a blue ocean event!
This strikes me as increasingly true. The corporations have had more representation than the scientists at recent climate summits.
NihiloZero@reddit
There were studies, years ago, showing that climate scientists were intentionally underselling their findings because they worried that people wouldn't take them seriously if they were seen as alarmist. Scientists also have the same psychology as other people as well... making them not want to believe the worst possibilities of their findings. I wouldn't say they are corrupt, just... psychologically weak and politically naive.
Also, the studies we see are innately built upon old data. If we see a huge spike in the rate of warming this year... it won't be factored into new studies for a few more years. And that's already an issue because the last couple years have already seen extreme increases in the rate of warming. People were still pushing older models with worst-case scenarios saying that we would hit +1.5C warming by 2040 (at the very earliest)... even after we had hit +1.5C of warming in 2025.
I'd also add that many climate scientists ARE as pessimistic as people in this sub and those are the scientists who seem more reasonable to many people here. The consensus is that global warming is real and caused by human activity -- but there isn't as solid of a consensus about the expected rate of warming.
ConfusedMaverick@reddit
I agree that there's a lot of inane exaggeration in this sub.
At the same time, it has been documented many times that mainstream climate science tends to understate the scale and speed of the problems we are likely to face. You don't have to think scientists are incompetent or bought to assume that reality will be worse than what has managed to pass through peer review.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
True, although it's important to add that in most cases when you see a new paper with "underestimated by models" or "faster than models predict" it's often exposing a gap in simulated future scenarios, which were made using data and software from years ago.
Directly comparing model results to observations shows remarkable accuracy so far with the biggest divergence being in Arctic sea ice loss, since multiple generations of climate models failed to recreate the abrupt decline and the stabilization that followed it. In pretty much every metric, observation and data correlate closely enough.
FangFioDente@reddit
Exactly It’s not “day after tomorrow” levels of crisis it’s more like a crack that keeps getting wider slowly but faster annd faster log instead of linea and people keep falling in. It may not kill you within your life time but half the planets human population is slated for death within the decade another quarter within half the time it took to get there, and that’s only if we consider half the story. And we take the current models that are always underestimations and we correct a linear estimation to the exponential one. Let’s look at “the great dying” as an example : During "The Great Dying" (the Permian-Triassic extinction, (\sim 251) million years ago), massive volcanic eruptions in the Siberian Traps caused (CO_{2}) levels to skyrocket. Atmospheric carbon dioxide rose rapidly from a pre-extinction baseline of about (400\text{ ppm}) to peak between (2,000) and (2,500\text{ ppm})
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
"In 20 years we will be at 8C increase"
No further questions, Your Honor
FangFioDente@reddit
I’m sorry I should explain that past a certain point things are going slow down, 18C at 2100 ppm is still a long way away. So we’ll be at 500 ppm in 10 years, At 3 C where shit will start to go little fucking crazy. Fires are going to double this number in short order, once it’s double methane release in Russia is going to compound that number again on a scale that I can’t imagine or even begin to postulate Becuase I’m not an expert, I just know that it’s much worse than carbon and even worse in combination.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Look, I am sorry that I was mean to you, genuinely, I shouldn't have been a dick when I was phrasing my earlier responses. But I truly don't think there is anything to talk about here.
These scales you mention are way beyond anything that trustworthy evidence supports. You say you aren't an expert, that's fine, honestly I'm not either, I'm just a dude who tries to learn as much from as many publications as possible.
Now I don't think "scientists say this is wrong" is going to be a convincing argument, but if it's not, then there's nothing I could say that would work anyway. Just have a nice day or something, and if we're still here in 10 years or 20 or whatever, feel free to hit me up for a drink, my treat.
FangFioDente@reddit
Sounds great. 👍 have a good day.
FangFioDente@reddit
My estimation in comments, my estimation comes with the caveat that I am only considering carbon with a worse outlook and the reality is still worse and faster than my math can account for.
Sunim416@reddit
Venus by Tuesday?
No_Ear_1633@reddit
Boned by Wednesday
theCaitiff@reddit
Promise? Also who's going to show up to do the boning? I want to be sure I have appropriate snacks and drinks for them.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Make it Wednesday morning and you got a deal
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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zue4@reddit
Always blows my mind to see people still willingly having kids while the state of the world gets worse like this. Both in terms of climage change and political upheaval/rise of fascism.
Sly-Ambition-2956@reddit
I'm still having kids. Someone has to survive. It'll be the apocalypse. But people will still survive here & there. People were still having kids during the Second World War.
daywreckerdiesel@reddit
No they don't. The fate of every species that has ever existed or will ever exist is eventual extinction.
ideknem0ar@reddit
A coworker's kid just got pregnant again and another coworker, bless his unfiltered Asperger's heart, said, "I don't know why people want to have kids with the world the way it is." Her response was that you need to have kids to raise them to be good to outnumber the bad ones. Yet another generation given the job of "the children will save us!" Been hearing that my whole life. I also don't get the conceit of thinking YOUR kid will be Neo or whatever when it's more likely they'll be a Cypher.
-mrhyde_@reddit
Never give up! Never surrender!
bread_and_circuits@reddit
Okay well I fucked up, had two kids before fully understanding the scope of the crisis and also before I got diagnosed with autism and ADHD, passing both traits on to them.
Can’t really do anything now other than love them, support them, parent them like I didn’t get parented and make them aware of this when they get older. I guess I’ll have two little soldier helpers in the coming water wars.
But yeah, not everyone is doing it with some cognitive dissonance going on, some people truly didn’t grasp the scope until they already had them.
country_garland@reddit
We’ve only been waiting for the boning for 2000+ years. Any day now!
FangFioDente@reddit
That’d be Jesus, and no, we can literally watch the world get hotter every year with little variance. During a solar minimum, so ya know blow ya self.
country_garland@reddit
I’ll get right on that after another day of work
FangFioDente@reddit
Enjoy it! And Remember DONT LOOK UP!!!
country_garland@reddit
Are you suggesting there is something I can do to stop it?
FangFioDente@reddit
Nope. Not at all. Go about your day. Enjoy yourself.
uslashuname@reddit
Hey don’t forget they just realized the first disposable satellites in the mega constellations are coming down, and their burnt up aluminum and other parts are going to rain down on the ozone layer to provide reaction surfaces
And in this political climate don’t expect any companies to be told to hold off on launching millions of additional short lived satellites
zue4@reddit
Thanks Elon Musk!
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Don't forget aerosols from mostly flying, but also everything else.
SavageCucmber@reddit
We need more AI Data Centers to figure this problem out
andreasmiles23@reddit
In the *The AI Doc* Sam Altman seriously pitches how AI can “help solve climate change.”
No actual solutions. No material propositions. Just an unsolvable mystery that the magical new machines will “help” us with.
Fuck the billionaires. They’re sucking the planet dry so that they can have dick measuring contests on their yachts and private islands. Until we stop them, there’s nothing much we can do.
NihiloZero@reddit
Instead of making the problem worse (as it currently is), AI might be necessary at this point to geo-engineer our way out of climate catastrophe. But I don't think that happens by building countless data centers to make AI slop videos. Rather, AI needs to be nationalized and strictly focused upon humanitarian projects. AI simply doesn't need to be as destructive or as frivolous as it currently is. It's first focus should be to operate more sustainably and then it should be used democratically to deal with serious problems.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but... I don't see many other plans to address the climate catastrophe. If everyone isn't going to drop out of civilization and focus on planting trees, or if that's not enough, then I'm not sure what other hope for humanity there might be. I don't really like it either, but I don't see many other plans or solutions... and I do believe that AI could be capable of solving some serious technical issues.
Part1O7@reddit
AI used properly could radically reduce climate change simply by societal change alone. How many people now don't have to pay 300 researchers to drive to the library? The issue isn't AI.. the issue is AI in a world that is trying to profit against it.
NihiloZero@reddit
Yes, thank you for understanding. A lot of people (somewhat understandably) reach for their pitchforks whenever you have anything at all positive to say about AI. But... we could use the technology in healthier and more constructive ways.
And hey, the development of AI may ultimately do us in one way or another (ASI), but... we'll just have deal with that crisis when we get there -- because it looks at this point like humans won't be able to deal with anything else if we don't deal with climate change.
R3StoR@reddit
It seems like most of the answers were already available for quite a while ...without AI.
AI can tell us what we already know and maybe something we don't. Then what?
The missing ingredient is the change and sacrifice needed personally and also towards disabling the levers of the ultra wealthy and other destructive forces of the planet.
Many of us try to hold on to some faint hope that AI or cold fusion or antigravity (or whatever) will come along and somehow serve as a deciding factor to turn things around.
Maybe .. but the real deciding factor (either way) would be the act of stopping the damaging activity that we're already doing.
allonsyyy@reddit
Why do we need AI to stop researchers from commuting to a physical library. We can just put the libraries on the internet, we would have already done so if not for copyrights.
Do we need the AI to tell us that our copyright laws are stupid? I'll do that for free.
andreasmiles23@reddit
We have for pretty much all meaningful scientific manuscripts done by the major global north universities.
There's still an issue of the erasure of science from the global south but that was an issue pre-AI and that AI actually makes worse.
It also can't like...read the shit in libraries that's not available online. So that doesn't fix that problem. And it makes shit up about the research online that is digitized, so scholars still need to read and write and do corrections themselves.
AI isn't helpful in the actual research process. It's a decent analytical and editing tool (it can do qualitative interpretations and fix code/grammar, for example). But higher-order and conceptual tasks, like theorizing a psychological effect based on previous literature, still can't do as well or as efficiently as a human.
Bandits101@reddit
How can AI “radically reduce climate change”?
andreasmiles23@reddit
It can't. People just make these crazy claims, and since no one actually understands the tech, it "feels right," and so they go along with the script.
This is the exact type of cognitive distortion the AI CEOs like Altman weaponize to juice up the viability of their products.
andreasmiles23@reddit
No one. Pretty much all of research is digitized now. And AI is, infamously, bad at synergizing the concepts from research articles.
So those people still need to read and write the research themselves.
The AI is just a fancy search tool that requires 10x (at least) the resources of the ones that already existed and were problematic.
None of these accounts for the science done in the global south that is erased by algorithms on Google Scholar, and made even worse in the AI searches.
So like, this isn't solving any problem or providing any efficiency. It's basically the same thing with extra steps because now the search bar thinks it can talk to me.
andreasmiles23@reddit
I simply don't see the rationale of this theory. It doesn't really add anything to the current workflow. It's bad at writing. It's bad at stats. It's bad at generating visualizations. It's a white rabbit and it's a sunk-cost white rabbit imo to be like "well it's here we might as well use it."
NihiloZero@reddit
I understand that many people have been led to believe that everything AI produces is worthless garbage, but... I simply don't believe that's accurate. When used correctly, I think it has proven itself capable of helping to solve various complex problems.
For what it's worth, I saw this video recently which addresses several perspectives and possibilities regarding AI...
andreasmiles23@reddit
"When used correctly" is the key verbiage I am going to push back on here.
So basically, the LLMs are coding models that were initially employed to scan and correct huge chunks of code. The engineers found that you could also get it to generate text, and with a big enough pool of information, it could spit back semi-coherent answers and dialogue.
It's obvious on its face that the initial function, finding and correcting errors in code and text, is perfectly applicable.
I have yet to see any data or any argument that it's useful or efficient in any other area of labor. I have colleagues who think it can possibly be helpful in qualitative analyses, but that's basically relying on what it could do with code and text. That doesn't shock me.
It's remarkably inefficient. It's bad at writing, so you can't have it generate tons of text ex nihilo and ship it off. You have to check its work.
It's also bad at research. If it can't find anything confirmatory, it will hallucinate and make shit up. That bias is detrimental to the average researcher's workflow, again making it less efficient than just doing the work yourself.
I don't wanna sound like an argumentative ass, but I am being one because I think it's important to challenge the assumption that somehow it's this magically amazing tool. It really isn't, and there's no real case for it. Coding and text editing...yes. It's really helpful. But the rest of it...We are better at doing it ourselves.
Additionally, this is all based on the assumption that productivity is the end-all, be-all. Which I disagree with. I think cars make people "more productive" but are incredibly damaging to our health, environment, and society. But just because it can get me medium distances "more efficently" than waiting for a bus, or walking to a train that drops me off somewhere, and then I have to walk some more, doesn't mean we should have created a society that revolves around its use. I feel the same about AI. And in fact, it's the same fallacious assumptions that turned us into a car-brained society that I worry about with AI overtaking everything.
NihiloZero@reddit
Since you seem to be responding in good faith, I'll try to do the same...
I'd argue that finding and correcting errors in code and text is a powerful ability and could be incredibly useful in beneficial projects.
That's largely a model problem, imo. Some models hallucinate more than others, but... I believe this is something which isn't the problem that it once was. Sort of like how the AI image generators don't mess up fingers and toes as often as they used to. Some modern models are more likely to tell you when they simply don't know an answer or are unsure.
Again, I think it's improving in this regard but... I would never suggest just copy-pasting output without proof-reading it. You shouldn't just ask, copy, paste, and forget it. The same is true if you were the editor of a newspaper and a human reporter submitted copy to print.
AI can make mistakes, that doesn't mean it isn't improving or not still useful in various ways. Also, to the extent that it's "making workers less productive," that could often be due to misuse (or casual/careless/ignorant use) -- not the fault of the AI. If I give someone a calculator and they press the buttons in the wrong way... it's not necessarily the calculators fault. If 90% of the population can't use AI properly, it's not necessarily the AI's fault.
Again, I don't think those are small areas of importance. For example, all the zero day bugs that a model recently found... is nothing short of impressive. But, I'd also note that it is now solving advanced mathematical problems that humans haven't been able to solve for decades. And this is why I think it can be used to further advance science and engineering projects that we may need moving forward.
I'm more concerned about finding specific answers to specific technical problems, and don't support using it lazily to solve any and all problems. I understand it is often being mis-used now, but I'm proposing a change in that regard to promote more focused, mindful, and democratic usage.
Of course. But let me reframe that a bit...
Cars, for the most part, in general, are kind of terrible for the environment, culture, society. But, we do have them. So, supposing there was an urgent problem (you had to get to some sort of specific location by a specific time in an emergency) that could only be solved by using an automobile... you probably would use a car despite most people using cars poorly and despite all the other problems associated with them. That's sort of how I feel about AI. If it can be used to help solve a serious problem that we might not be able to solve without it... then I think we should use it. This is still not to say that we should use it mindlessly.
My position isn't to continue building more data centers, quite to the contrary. But... I do think we could make AI more sustainable and useful for more serious and urgent problems. If it can help produce and analyze advanced geo-engineering projects... that may be necessary if humans can't solve certain technical issues in that regard.
I feel like global warming is an existential threat to humanity. And I think we might be able to use advanced AI to help us get over the hump in terms of designing tools that might be able to help us mitigate the problem. For example, if it can help engineer advanced carbon scrubber sinks... that might be of incredible importance. Perhaps it can figure out effective cloud-seeding patterns. But those are just a couple small ideas (off the top of my head) where the AI may be able to help humanity engineer something that it couldn't without the AI.
Hope some of that made sense.
andreasmiles23@reddit
That's reasonable, but here's where I digress. I actually don't think we disagree on much outside of this one aspect of the converstation...
I don't think there's a single use case that can "only be solved" using AI. And in the case of something like climate change, its use actively makes the problem worse, so any "progress" we can claim to make with it is undermined materially by the expansion of environmental destruction necessary to get it to a point where it could be remotely helpful.
In the car example, we are living in 2026. There are indeed problems that only automobiles can solve because we have built a whole society around them. There are hospitals that can only be accessed via car for example.
But we aren't at that point with AI. We haven't built a society around it, yet. So rather than making the same mistake we did with cars, and allowing capitalism to hijack a technological innovation to make us reliant on a product that is bought and sold for profits, we need to put up guardrails. Cars aren't more efficient or productive in a lot of cases, outside of the conditions that we built infrastructure, economic policies, industries, and careers out of their use and existence. So now we are kinda stuck figuring out how to put the genie in the bottle with cars. It's really hard.
We have to resist the same thing happening with AI. And if our political and economic leaders were governed by evidence-based results, they'd see the foolishness of doubling down on building out AI capacities at this moment in history. The trade-off simply isn't worth it...unless you own stock in those companies. Too bad those are the folks who make up the rules too. Just like Henry Ford did in the early 1900s.
IAm_Trogdor_AMA@reddit
Is it time to bring out my skimpy leather clad fuel crisis clothing yet?
vinegar@reddit
Let’s start with once a week, call it Mad Max Monday.
NiceSupermarket7724@reddit
During NYC Covid lockdown, I had a morbid joke that I expected there to be more sexy leather outfits during the apocalypse…
zedroj@reddit
of course, fuck it, the world's a bum
PowerandSignal@reddit
Do it.
ost2life@reddit
Why wait? Live your best life while you can.
dashingsauce@reddit
Ironically a non-sovereign, non-captured AI coordination substrate is basically our last chance at solving the collapse trajectory.
We’re either going to bifurcate into singularity or collapse, but they are the same mechanism.
m0nk37@reddit
If 4 billion people died, realistically that leaves 1-2 billion able to work. Spread ourlt over the entire world. At conditions which can easily kill you (super weather). So its going to be difficult to keep things running.
Robots and data centers can just handle most of it. If people would just adopt it already. /s
shaliozero@reddit
AI: "You dumbasses already figured it out before creating me, you just don't never started working towards it."
Gumbode345@reddit
42
Robertsipad@reddit
My AI assistant/best friend/therapist says we just have to eat less meat and bike when it’s nice out.
Also to build out more electricity production and transmission.
Hot_Masterpiece_9613@reddit
Yes and make sure they are gas turbine powered
Ooftwaffe@reddit
I’m hanging myself in a bit. Not worth sticking around in this dogshit existence. Good luck.
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theantnest@reddit
Nobody cares apparently.
"0.5 to 1 degree over 10 years? That nothing, what are you even going on about?"
EnvyofWindandRain@reddit
Two things I like to point out.
Firstly, 2C less and we have ice caps covering huge parts of the planet. 2C plus means an equally massive change in the opposite direction. That is dyer long term. Doesn't mean the end of humans but industrial civilization will be slammed.
Secondly, 1C higher is an average over the entire planet, 70% which is the ocean that warms much slower. It is about 2-3 times higher over land because of this difference.
FangFioDente@reddit
Exponential increases are not your strong suit are they….
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
poop-machines@reddit
Obviously it's A LOT.
This warming is mostly due to changes in regulations surrounding SO2 and other aerosols.
Hot_Course9003@reddit
People just don't understand how delicate and fragile the environment actually is; and how much we depend on it. The earth will be fine without humans. But humans can't survive without the earth.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Reminded me of "He gives so much to us" talks from religious people. In reality, we get so much from nature's systems working as intended. You could probably convince religious people that "this is what the bible meant" and get a good portion of them on the side of climate action lol.
ideknem0ar@reddit
Though way too many religious people have taken that whole "stewardship of the earth" bible thing and interpreted it to mean "don't waste an opportunity to exploit every inch of it because Gift from God."
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Seems obvious even ~2k years ago we had a concept of over-hunting and cutting down forests to the point where shit goes sideways.
roblewk@reddit
I believe this to be true. We have more information at our fingertips yet have less respect for nature than ever. As long as we have heat, electric, and easy food, we assume life will go on just like it is.
zue4@reddit
Yeah but disgustingly rich people need to get richer. Won't anyone think of the profits?!
ost2life@reddit
Rule #1: Line must go up.
nickiter@reddit
Gotta use "1-2 degrees F" for the Americans.
pagerussell@reddit
Folks don't understand averages, so we should stop talking in that form.
Summer peaks will be 5-10 F degrees higher.
That's maybe less precise but it's phrased in a way that normies can understand.
theantnest@reddit
The problem isn't whether you need a sweater or a bathing suit, the problem is germination temperatures of crop seeds and the ability of plants to survive rapid, large, abnormal temperature swings.
gnostic_savage@reddit
Absolutely. Sudden cold or sudden extreme heat at the wrong two week period in plants' reproduction cycle is all it takes to destroy agriculture for a year.
brickout@reddit
And to add another scale, it takes way, way more time to form new arable soils than it takes to destroy old ones. Like, 5,000-10,000 times longer.
roblewk@reddit
Look at France, experiencing their summer peak in May!
NihiloZero@reddit
"tHe wEaTheR iS sO nIcE!" -- countless individuals
andreasmiles23@reddit
But they do. Everyone talks about the changes in weather patterns. The erratic precipitation cycles. The hotter summers and colder winters. The lack of seasonal progression. Just cold one week then hot the next.
But no one wants to talk about why. I’ve found Americans in general are most resistant, because the solutions are disproportionally about them figuring out new ways of living life. The billionaire class doesn’t want their consumer base to change their habits so they craft misinformation and social scripts to keep us locked in.
frikandellenvreter@reddit
So it'll be 21,5c instead of 20c? Sounds fine to me 🤪🥲
Gumbode345@reddit
And the IPCC just concluded "only" 2-3 degrees by 2100. We have 7 decades until then. Do the math.
wanton_wonton_@reddit (OP)
The pre-print paper notes statistically significant warming trends of up to 0.482 ± 0.113°C decade⁻¹ are found from 2015 onward across all satellite and reanalysis datasets examined in this study, representing an increase of approximately four to five times relative to the pre-2015 period. This large trend, however, is only a conservative estimate. At the upper end, statistically significant acceleration rates of up to 0.48 ± 0.12°C decade⁻² are inferred near 2024, indicating that the recent temperature jumps are part of an ongoing acceleration amplified by the El Niño event. Projections based on the accelerated trend estimates suggest the potential for an additional 0.5–1.0°C of warming within the next decade.
disclosureanticlimax@reddit
i'm late to this thread but i just wanna add something i dont see being talked about in other comments.
2-4billion dead by 2050. 1999 is when the global population reached 6 billion. the global population reached 4 billion in 1974. . .
idk
perspective?
Straight-Razor666@reddit
The rich parasites sucking everyone's blood have known there is no stopping the inferno to come. Their solution has been to keep the sheep docile, confused and debating about the "truth" so they can keep on looting the coffers long enough and then hit the lifeboats to leave the sheep to burn.
*see flair*
No_Ear_1633@reddit
Nowhere to go in the lifeboats though
Straight-Razor666@reddit
sure, i understand that many people feel that way, but there are thousands of places on the planet that are much safer for them than others. They all the money and all the resources to live in opulence, detached from the horrors the rest of us will face. They live in an entirely different "dimension" than we do.
bluehands@reddit
For how long will the be able to do this?
One of the things that is underappreciated, what capitalism explicitly obfuscates, is how deeply connected we are.
Musk is now worth more than the bottom 53% of Americans but his very existence relies on so many people doing so many things.
The original example was a pencil, showing how all of the bits coming together migh as well be magic. Scale that up to petroleum products, food, toilet paper, everything that we take for granted and suddenly you can see it start falling apart.
Even if you pretend that you can store enough for 100 lifetimes for everyone you bring with you, that the systems are magically reliable into the distant future and that the neo-john-Galts maintain control...
Everyone would be miserable.
Because while billionaires are about accumulation, the only growth they are capable of is cancer. They don't know it but their only win condition is death.
KlicknKlack@reddit
Seriously, something a important as a petroleum product distillation column... one of the backbones of the 20th and 21st centuries... and even if you know how it works, its extremely complex based on inputs and what kind of outputs you are trying to get and their quality.
The more you understand how the technology works (outside of the digital world, in the material world), you start to understand how GOD DAMN complex and interconnected everything is. For example, transformers - the thing that takes in line voltage and converts it to usable 120V for your house appliances... those require a special kind of oil in them, and without it we can't make them or replace them.
Hell, there was a severe shortage of breakers (for your electrical panels) during COVID because factories couldn't get the dielectric necessary to make them...
Both of these examples are of pieces of 'behind the scenes' technology that require replacements every 15-20 years if everything goes right.
And ALL of that isn't even taking into account the glaring fallacy of billionaires thinking they can "survive the collapse" --- You always hear that "Wealth is Power"... But what is Wealth. Well the first instinct is 'Money', but what is 'money'... well its paper bills or digital 1's and 0's that we exchange for goods and services. But where does the value come from? --- Well in the past it was 'Gold backed' aka each dollar = a weight of gold. But where does the Value come from?
So if a 'collapse' happens, what will 99.9% of the population believe is valuable? Paper? A device that says you have $1,000,000,000 in wealth? .... No, they will value Food, Clothing, Shelter, Community.
So its absurd in the highest degree that these billionaires think that having a 'Bunker' or an island will save them. These people who gained their wealth and power from the work of others. They might understand some abstract concepts of how things work, but could they safely maintain a lifestyle they would want to live themselves?
And if the answer is they could build a community that they completely paid for and built up before the 'collapse'... why would anyone need them 'after collapse'? The community isn't going to worship them as a prophet, they are going to see them as a 'king' at best... but also with the modern knowledge of what happens to kings who don't rule fairly --- they get overthrown by those 'faithful' commanders and royal court....
Its all... so... predictable... its a wonder why they don't pull their heads out of their asses and try to fix things ASAP.
Straight-Razor666@reddit
value comes from human labor and from nothing else.
Good_Captain_8665@reddit
I have found myself thinking more and more how the fall of ussr and its ideas, inevitably ensued the collapse of humanity. The realizations that were made in order bring about the communist revolution were important and the failure of the communist regimes made the further pursuit of those truths disappear from mainstream society.
It doesn’t matter how bad climate change is going to get when all the resources in the world are given to the wealthy to sustain an unsustainable life.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
This. The psychopaths in charge of the world have no idea how things really works. Nor do the sycophants and tools who support them.
Fit_Tumbleweed7943@reddit
Wonder what happens with ultra wealthy narcissists selfish careless individuals try to survive without a society to leach from. And very few necessary survival skills.
I’d watch that shit show
TheEPGFiles@reddit
Oh yeah, you're right, they'll eventually notice that their wealth only makes sense in the context of an existing and functioning society.
Slamtilt_Windmills@reddit
That they don't know that already, how smart can they be?
TheEPGFiles@reddit
Well, in the case of Sam Altman, he doesn't know shit about computer engineering according to his own employees, so I think it's fair to surmise that a lot of them are just sales people. You don't need to know how the thing you're selling works to sell it, that's why marketing departments exist. I personally believe it's all more about being a show than having actual substance.
RandomBoomer@reddit
I was watching a Kara Swisher video last night and she made the point that most of the tech bros billionaires aren't that smart generally. They may have one narrow area of brilliance (or not), but their understanding outside that specialty is pretty dim. "Just stop talking," was her advice, because they don't know how the world works.
ThrowawayACC458995@reddit
They will die out eventually, with the rest of us. They will take us down nevertheless.
XI_Vanquish_IX@reddit
It’s not about lifeboats. They know they can live their best lives at our expense and watch the world burn until their day comes too. It’s just about “getting theirs” as long as they can
SeVenMadRaBBits@reddit
Hence the billionaire bunkers and race for robotics, A.I., mass surveillance.
They need something that will be able to repair things outside the bunkers and make things they need since humans won't stand a chance.
KlicknKlack@reddit
Yeah... but where do they get the parts or people to maintain those systems...
Straight-Razor666@reddit
slave labor
mrsduckie@reddit
I bet this is why they need datacenters, just to keep the sheep under control, every dollar, every step tracked 24/7
NihiloZero@reddit
Perhaps in part, but... I honestly think they are trying to create AGI. And it seems they are willing to get there at any cost -- even if it means covering the entire world with data centers.
And whether or not you believe AGI is possible, AI is already basically winning the war against humanity. Some tech overlords have been overt about their acceptance of that outcome -- seeing AI as merely the next step in evolutionary intelligence. We are basically living in a sci-fi dystopia.
mancubbed@reddit
One could interpret the push for AI to be that the only realistic way to save the planet will be massive sudden depopulation.
morphemass@reddit
https://postimg.cc/JH3qH20R
I'm very alarmed at the implications of the various research that is coming out suggesting far higher warming than is the mainstream conscious. I revisited an old project today which was to extrapolate EEI trends based on Mauretsen et al (2025) and compared it to what it will mean for various ECS estimates. I wonder how well it will track for the future.
Yes, we are in a lot of trouble if the mainstream models have been conservative.
Deanoh1546@reddit
If the sensitivity really is higher, every year of delay becomes a much bigger problem than current policy discussions seem to assume.
morphemass@reddit
It's almost certainly higher than 3C but I'd hazard to guess how much higher. If it's closer to 4.5 as Hansen et al have suggested, it's a dire situation given civilisations appetite for decarbonisation is far lower than necessary. The fact is that our energy consumption is rising far faster than the renewable sources have been able to moderate and there seems to be no realistic end in sight. I have very little faith in current policy.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
The first rule, THE VERY FIRST RULE, of ANY deadly threat, is to NEVER underestimate it.
morphemass@reddit
Honestly it's why I look at worse case scenarios, tail end extremes, rare but catastrophic risks. The frog in the pot doesn't care that the average temperature is 21C, it cares when the heat is turned up and suddenly its 100C. We're the frogs being told that the average isn't too worrying.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
Yep, Murphy's Law is a law for a reason.
GoodDogBrent@reddit
this needs to be framed more dramatically like "american football players will need longer time-outs during games"
TanteJu5@reddit
What about the natural variability that will inevitably result in cooler La Niña years?
Yeah, unmitigated climate change will undeniably cause severe economic damage, displacement and tragic loss of life but predictions of 4 billions of deaths are sensationalized.
HomoExtinctisus@reddit
The problem is you have a false assumption built into your rhetorical question. In a stable climate, La Niña does indeed do what you say. In an increasingly accelerating warming environment, La Niña cooling is overshadowed by the warming growth rate.
Also note La Niña do not actually mean the Earth is cooler, it is just a time when atmospheric heat is absorbed into the ocean and El Niño is the expelling heat from ocean back into atmosphere.
TanteJu5@reddit
Your assumption is that the Earth acts like a sealed thermos where energy merely sloshes back and forth between the ocean and the atmosphere. Where did you leave the thermodynamic system that is continuously exchanging energy with the vacuum of space? Also, the Earth Energy Imbalance (EEI)?
A hotter atmosphere radiates much more thermal energy aka Outgoing Longwave Radiation (OLR) out into space. Therefore, during an El Niño, the Earth system as a whole actually loses heat to space at a faster rate. On the other hand, during a La Niña phase, cold waters well up in the eastern Pacific, dropping the global average surface temperature. Because the surface and lower atmosphere are cooler, they emit less infrared radiation into space. So, the Earth actually accumulates more total heat during La Niña than it does during an El Niño. ENSO ain't just a geographical heat shuffling mechanism. It acts as a planetary radiation valve that regulates the total thermal energy retained by the Earth.
HomoExtinctisus@reddit
Can you point out the words I used which claim that? Otherwise your interpretation is adding your own bias so you can make such an absurd accusation.
TanteJu5@reddit
You explicitly described the mechanics of one. The exact words you used were:
Which is a closed thermodynamic system where energy is merely transferred between internal components i.e., the ocean and the atmosphere without changing the overall total.
Striper_Cape@reddit
Earth's ability to radiate heat away is not closed but in terms of human timescales, its got a slow leak in that thermos because of the sun constantly refilling it.
vinegar@reddit
There will still be variability, but a ‘cool’ la nina year will be hotter than a current el nino. The 4 billion deaths comes from the actuaries, released last year.
TanteJu5@reddit
4 billion deaths by 2050 is roughly 160 million deaths per year above baseline for 25 years. Even catastrophic historical events didn't approach that pace. Yes, food system collapse and conflict could cause enormous mortality but not that fast without something truly unprecedented.
Striper_Cape@reddit
This winter year was fucking atrocious for the US West and it was a La Nina.
Uncle_Charnia@reddit
There’s much more to it than that
imeme1969@reddit
So in 2126 we won’t need to as much artificial heating
suckcorner4nutrients@reddit
Opus 4.8: Good — and your instinct to treat it as an estimate is exactly right, because this is a paper where the verdict depends almost entirely on one methodological choice, and reasonable people are arguing about that choice right now.
First, provenance, since you flagged the algorithmic feed. This is not crank work and not a denialist paper. Cheng-Zhi Zou is the scientist who builds NOAA's official satellite temperature record (the STAR v5.0 dataset), so he's establishment satellite climatology, citing largely his own well-regarded data work. And note the direction: the paper argues warming is accelerating faster than models predict. It sits inside a genuinely live mainstream debate — Schmidt's "uncharted territory," Rahmstorf and Foster, Hansen, all arguing acceleration is real; Beaulieu et al. arguing it isn't detectable yet. So: legitimate authors, legitimate question, real data. That earns it a serious read rather than dismissal.
Now where it's soft. The load-bearing move is fitting a cubic polynomial and reading "acceleration" off its second derivative. Here's the problem a mathematician would flag instantly, and you can see it without the math: the second derivative of a cubic is a straight line. So once you've decided to fit a cubic with an upward curve, you have built in an acceleration that rises steadily and is necessarily largest at the very end of the record. The dramatic headline — "acceleration reaches ~0.48°C/decade² near 2024" — lands exactly where a polynomial fit is least constrained and most twitchy (the endpoint). The cubic can't even represent acceleration that rises and then falls; the shape of the answer was chosen before the data spoke. This is your "premature coherence" in its purest statistical form: the curve imposes the story.
The same issue poisons the scary projection. Their 0.5–1.0°C range isn't one estimate with error bars; it's two different models. The piecewise-linear model (just extend the last straight segment) gives ~0.5°C. The cubic, extrapolated ten years, gives ~1.0°C — because an upward cubic curves upward forever; that's what cubics do when you push them past the data. Extrapolating polynomials is one of the things you're explicitly taught not to do. Tellingly, their own one-year out-of-sample test on 2025 favors the conservative model: the piecewise projection missed by 0.001°C, the cubic by 0.045°C. Their modest number validated; their alarming number didn't.
Two more discounts on the significance claims:
The ENSO–aerosol adjustment cuts variance by ~50%, and they're candid that this is what makes the trends "significant across all datasets." But shrinking the noise is exactly the operation that shrinks p-values, and there's no clear sign they propagate the uncertainty from the adjustment regression itself into the final error bars, or that they correct for the strong autocorrelation they describe ("3–4-year variability") in the residuals. With ~44 annual points and heavy autocorrelation, the effective sample size is much smaller than it looks, and standard t-tests will overstate significance. So "significant in every dataset" should be read with a meaningful discount.
And they drop the one dataset that disagrees. RSS shows roughly half the acceleration and is excluded from the headline mean. The stated reason (RSS doesn't correct a known spurious early-period warming) is real and defensible — but it's also the dataset that disagrees most being set aside in favor of the author's own NOAA record. Not misconduct; just a place where the result rides on contested calibration choices in the most structurally uncertain temperature record we have.
To the authors' real credit, the honest tell is in their own discussion: they can't find a physical mechanism. Greenhouse forcing rose linearly over the period, they've removed aerosols, and they can't pin it on clouds. An acceleration that no forcing explains is precisely the pattern you'd expect if some of it were a fitting/endpoint artifact rather than physics — and they more or less admit the projections are curve-extrapolation, not mechanism.
So my estimate: plausible in direction, oversold in magnitude. That recent warming has run hot is solid and mainstream. The specific dramatic numbers — peak acceleration "at 2024" and the 1°C/decade upper projection — are substantially products of the cubic, not robust features of the data. The conservative piecewise figures are the defensible ones, and the paper's careful readers (you) will notice that buried in the text it actually concedes this; the abstract just leads with the frightening framing. If a referee asked one question, it should be: show that the acceleration survives a model that isn't structurally forced to peak at the endpoint, with autocorrelation-corrected significance and the adjustment uncertainty propagated through.
If it's useful, I can sketch in plain terms why the piecewise and cubic models disagree about the future even while fitting the past about equally well — it's a nice illustration of two stories the same noisy data will happily tell.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 14: AI-generated content may not be posted to /r/collapse. No self-posts, no comments, no links to articles or blogs or anything else generated by AI or AI influencers/personas. No AI-generated images or videos or other media. No "here's what AI told me about [subject]", "I asked [AI] about [subject]" or the like. This includes content substantively authored by AI.
No_Sign6616@reddit
I'm thankful i'm deeply misanthropic who wished this species would just fuck off already
Spunge14@reddit
It has reached the point where there's literally no point in even announcing these things anymore. What do you want the average person to do?
Anyone who has any meaningful scientific understanding of these stakes should be focusing 100% of their energy on proving to the ultra wealthy that this is bad for them personally somehow. Every other ounce of effort is completely wasted.
HeartsOfDarkness@reddit
I spend a lot of time in these circles, and I have a few general observations:
(1) A large percentage, significantly greater than normal folks, genuinely don't believe we have any influence over climate. My sense is that they've talked themselves into this belief because they don't want to consider the "good times" coming to an end. There's also a strong strain of "what do those scientists know, anyway?" mixed in, because people successful in business or finance tend to believe they're smarter than everyone else.
(2) Those "who know" largely understand that crisis is on the doorstep, but the collective action (e.g., government action) needed to make meaningful interventions towards mitigation and resiliency is politically impossible, so they just don't talk about it.
(3) The third group, those "who know" and are desperately calling for action, know they're basically "pissing into the wind."
Badlydrawnboy0@reddit
Per all three points - remember when the world (mostly) shut down for pandemic and air/water pollution rapidly declined after just a few weeks?
Of course it was only a drop in the bucket after we went back to business-as-usual. Sad that the only thing that spurred us into meaningful collective action was a literal pandemic that cost 18M+ people their lives (which could have been mostly prevented)
PowerandSignal@reddit
Depressingly accurate.
Magnesium4YourHead@reddit
I want the average person to rethink their reproductive choices.
theCaitiff@reddit
Depopulation via birth control takes decades we don't have my friend. I mean, I don't have kids, I'm not going to have kids, I'm 100% behind self sterilization especially for those of us in the west who are in high consumption countries, but even if 90% of people who are of child bearing age got snipped and tied you won't see enough reduction worldwide to have a meaningful impact on climate change for at least 50 years.
Minimumtyp@reddit
Oh no we mean "don't drag any more poor souls into this sinking ship", the ship has long sailed for methods to fix it
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
So glad I got that vasectomy.
Strenue@reddit
Don’t look up!
filmguy36@reddit
He’ll, with the super El Niño coming, it’ll happen this year
hiddendrugs@reddit
3°C was the collapse of global society, as far as I remember?
zedroj@reddit
even 2 degrees was detrimental, at 4+ we get acid oceans and rotten smelling skies
sludivvitch@reddit
sorry but I just have to say I think you could make your point with an actual good science article and not whatever that clickbait youtube is supposed to be
it jumps from +4 to +5 to +6 without giving any real data/information and then just starts talking about how the entire sky is going to be methane and 1 lightning strike is going to nuke the entire planet or something????
like come on lol....
Squozen_EU@reddit
Well, it was a nice run.
Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit
Richard Crim was saying this in pretty much every post for years
Uncle_Charnia@reddit
Ad hominem fallacy
NoBee3283@reddit
This world is going to hell in a bucket, and turning around 8 billion people is just about impossible. Especially with the greed that is inherent in our species. Adaptation and resilience is the only way to go at this point
Uncle_Charnia@reddit
Morality doesn’t ask you to turn around 8 billion people. Just one
herefromyoutube@reddit
I just came back from florida. It hadn’t hit above 90° or anything but that humidity in the 80s just put a fresh coat of sticky sweat over my skin the instant I walked outside. I cannot imagine what the 100° is gonna feel like but warming up the planet is going to make summers unlivable in places like the south.
zedroj@reddit
chat are we cooked? 😌🥀
robotali3n@reddit
One more giant asphalt or concrete parking lot and we can turn this around
Existing-Stranger632@reddit
I thought we’ve already passed the threshold? Or we have and this article is just explaining a potential result. I imagine the super El Niño that’s coming is gonna really fuck shit up if it’s as bad as what they’re saying.
nighteeeeey@reddit
i just installed a balcony solar power plant with 2kw. so its not me folks. its not me. im riding electric 2 wheels since 2019. i dont fly i dont consume, i dont drive a car. just for the record, its not me.
click-monster@reddit
This is me every time I leave the house (just kidding)
nighteeeeey@reddit
thats actually pretty cool
click-monster@reddit
(Sorry to anyone if this is getting too off-topic for thread) Nice! Those portable power Stations are 9lbs (4.1kg) so not really practical for extended toting around imo, but I was looking at fat tire touring eBikes with a rear rack. Motorized vehicles aren't allowed in many nature areas while eBikes are.
nighteeeeey@reddit
No he charged his scooter with those panels! Electric scooter!
11SomeGuy17@reddit
Lol, who could've guess that deregulating environmental policies would accelerate the destruction of the planet? Truly shocking. /S
Javontarious@reddit
Let’s build a data center there, that will fix it …
Obvious-Function-919@reddit
4 to 5 degrees by 2100 here we come.
Whooptidooh@reddit
Wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
StarlightLifter@reddit
Well that doesn’t sound great
nanapancakethusiast@reddit
I feel like I’ve been reading this headline since the late 80’s.
AdiKadiAdi@reddit
Not so bad
zue4@reddit
3.6 roentgen. Not great, not terrible.
RoyalZeal@reddit
Hey don't worry y'all, they just said RCP 8.5 is no longer a scenario we have to worry about, it'll be fine.
The biggest /s in the world. Reality will worse than the 'worst case' scenarios we've drawn up.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/wanton_wonton_:
The pre-print paper notes statistically significant warming trends of up to 0.482 ± 0.113°C decade⁻¹ are found from 2015 onward across all satellite and reanalysis datasets examined in this study, representing an increase of approximately four to five times relative to the pre-2015 period. This large trend, however, is only a conservative estimate. At the upper end, statistically significant acceleration rates of up to 0.48 ± 0.12°C decade⁻² are inferred near 2024, indicating that the recent temperature jumps are part of an ongoing acceleration amplified by the El Niño event. Projections based on the accelerated trend estimates suggest the potential for an additional 0.5–1.0°C of warming within the next decade.
Drill baby drill!
Edit: Tacking this on from a previous post.
Remember that German scientists are saying recent observations mean 3°C by 2050 cannot be ruled out.
...which actuaries predict could cause 4 billion deaths via mass mortality events.
Yes, 4 BILLION DEATHS.
2 billion deaths at 2C of heating by 2050.
Fuuuuuuuuuuck.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ttsoe1/renowned_climate_scientist_shares_paper_warning/op4lizu/
Cool-Contribution-68@reddit
The "worst case scenario" has been ruled out. That's what I've been told recently.
wanton_wonton_@reddit (OP)
Good thing we have an even worse scenario now!
xXthrillhoXx@reddit
That's regarding our inputs to the problem (i.e. we will probably not burn literally all the coal on the planet) but it doesn't have much to do with the outcome
AstralVenture@reddit
I know