Does "The Turk has no friend but the Turk" sentiment hold true?

[-]

bugog@reddit

I don’t think it means something significant. Too little participants. And Reddit is heavily used in “western” countries which Greece is usually aligned with.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

If Greece attacks Turkey and commit massacres against us, 90% of Europe will be celebrating it.

[-]

Interesting_Piano_99@reddit

They already have, Turkish-Cypriots are victims of ethnic cleansing and also been embargoed by the west. Make that make sense.

[-]

i know it doesn't matter that much in this context but the inner nerd in me has to say that's actually 85 million

[-]

Danish haahahaha. More like Turk living in Denmark hiding his identity behind the Danish flag. I've seen him make many pro Turkish posts and comments. No sane Danish guy would be so pro Turkey or think about Turkey at all

[-]

[-]

Jamesanitie@reddit

They dont hate the turks but they love the greeks, so if a hypothetical war started between the two you will see huge backing to greece. Simple as. Doesnt matter who is right or wrong.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

I wish we had nukes and low inflation so that we wouldn't have to be close with the people who want to eradicate our existence

no we are not like your people who celebrated after Ukraine got invaded, after October 7th and many other terrorist attacks we suffered by the hand of muslims...handing out candy and posting it on social media was a brilliant idea

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

70% of Turkish population has their family became victim of the Russian aggression during 19th and 20th century. The opinions on Russia is inherently negative and only some people who became so Anti-European that they came to a situation to support everything against them sincerely supports Russians.

The loss that the Russian Empire caused us in Caucasus and Balkans are still in our mind and the majority of our people have a tenderness for Ukraine. Ukraine also protected the Turks of their country and saw them as fellow Ukrainians.

However, it is true that the majority of our population is also anti-Israel.

[-]

Tribalecho@reddit

Okay, I should have specified the people that were celebrating and posting were turks/muslims that live in the EU and hate us.

Greece attacking Turkey is a suicidal idea. It's not going to happen. Just theoretical nonsense.

[-]

Turkey will never and ever start it. If a war happens, Turkey won't start it.

[-]

kostas_vo@reddit

Believing that your country (formerly an empire that invaded countless regions and peoples) is absolutely in the right and would never start an offensive war is dangerous. No one should fall for propaganda, wherever it may originate.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Bro, I'm anti-war already. How did you conclude that?

[-]

Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit

wtf are you smoking

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

I live in Belgium for 7 years also have some ties in other Western countries thanks to the business of my uncle.

Turkey doesn't constantly threaten Greece.

Erdoğan said "We can suddenly come one night" after Greece started to arm the neighboring islands.

[-]

Temporary-Aside5306@reddit

You tend to want to arm islands when you have a neighbour who consistently questions your sovereignty. Not forgetting turkey has threatened to cut any undersea cables linking Greece and Cyprus, as if they have any right to do that. While also not forgetting turkey still don't recognise Cyprus as a country. And turkey have threatened war if Greece exercises a legal right under the UN law of the season convention. So I don't know what you call it when you foreshadow war and proclaim you will interfere between projects of two other sovereign nations that don't relate to turkey but I'd call that pretty threatening

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Turkey does it because for years it defended 2 state solution in Cyprus. In 2004 we even gave up on it and accepted to withdraw from the island if a federation that recognizes Turkish autonomy gets established. It was accepted by the Turks and rejected by Greeks.

[-]

Temporary-Aside5306@reddit

Defends a two state solution that you created by invading in the first place. Cyprus was just fine as a complete state before. Always an excuse why your imperialism is ok

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Cyprus was a state where the Turkish minority became a target for a decade and Greece openly intervened to the politics.

We took 30% of the island as a compensation for the lost Turkish lives.

When I said 90%, I didn't talk for everybody of course.

We are so lucky that in Europe, there are some nations that respected us, accepted us and even protected us. We LOVE those nations and we are forever greatful for them.

For the reason that we had Russian Empire as a common enemy, Ukraine accepted Turkic people as their fellow Ukrainians. To an extent that they accepted 1944 Crimean Tatar Genocide as their national diseaster and in 2016, they sent Jamala (she's half Turk) to Eurovision. They literally won Eurovision 2016 with a half Turkish song.

Romania became the only country in the Balkans that didn't ethnically cleansed it Turkic population. Not only that, Romania opened its arms for Tatar refugees from Crimea.

These countries became our heros and we'll forever keep them in our hearts for the good deeds that they've done for us.

Some people think today's world like the middle ages I think.

[-]

int23_t@reddit

That's not going to happen. Erdogan is just a clown.

I haven't seen someone that actually wants to conquer any Greek asset just "it's a shame we lost the islands"

[-]

SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"I haven't seen someone".

is this a joke? lol.

literally 12 hours ago on this a sub Turk was saying "he will visit the islands as a soldier" (the comment is removed, now).

MANY MORE examples like this.

there's people in Turk subs posting maps w/ Turkey controlling half of Greece, & in the comments people unironically support it.

I'm not saying everyone is like that but it's very clear MANY r.

We celebrate 19 may since it is the day that our liberation movement has begun. We were a country as big as Jordan with Sevres then we gained 800,000 km2 of land. Not a genocide.

[-]

Ok_Huckleberry4563@reddit

The pontics would beg to differ

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Most of the Pontics were deported by the Kemalist Army, the massacres were not in an extent to identify it as a genocide. Plus it has nothing to do with 19 may.

Pontic Massacres started in the beginning of 1900s and lasted until the end of WW1. 350K of people died in a decade. If it is a genocide, massacre of millions of Balkan Turks during the 19th century can also be identified as a genocide.

[-]

Ok_Huckleberry4563@reddit

acting a victim and "oh poor us eu hates us" but committing genocide against pontics AND armenians, while also illegally occupying cyprus is wild

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Genocide according to the international law means: Intentionally im to destroy a certain unarmed, unprovocative group.

The decree that started what we call the Armenian Genocide is given by Talat Pasha. It's copies are still online and displayed in many projects about the Armenian Genocide.

It is called Tehcir Fermanı which means Decree of Deportation. Which commands to deport Armenians from Anatolia to the Levant. Armenians of Istanbul, Bursa and Edirne are exempted. Word "itlaf" basically mean "eliminate, unalive" is not present in the decree it only commands Tehcir (deportation). Which means there is no intention to destroy a group. That's why the UN still didn't recognize Armenian Genocide.

You can google Temporary Law of Deportation and examine the PDF files yourself published by numerous universities.

If deportation followed by death marches which people die on road by attacks, disease and hunger is a genocide, which I don't object, then the loss of Balkan Turks during the 19th century is also a genocide.

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

but declaring a 12 mile isnt aggression, is it?

gif

lol, big myth. In case of war, Turkey will feed its citizens spaghetti while Greece will receive billions of euros from Europe.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Because most of the Europeans see Turkey as a lost land, rightfully belong to the White European Christian Civilization stolen by orcs. If Greece attacks Turkey, invade it and unalive people, Europeans will perceive it as a "struggle" between humans and non-humans.

[-]

Wooden-Trouble727@reddit

No. But we remember how Turkey started a war in Cyprus for the aim of weakening Greece and we see ongoing Turkish disrespect for borders, including frequent airforce fly overs in different Greek Islands.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

Ah yes, Turkey just woke up one day and randomly started a war. It definitely had absolutely nothing to do with the Greek Junta's fascist coup trying to annex the island 5 minutes earlier

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

The first intervention was justified. However the Junta had fallen, the killings has stopped, they were in the middle of peace negotiations and Turkey decides to invade and capture 1/3 of the island.

Let's not mention the thousands of settlers Turkey sent over to Cyprus in breach of international law.

Everyone but the Turks say it was an invasion but according to the Turks, everyone is wrong.

[-]

Few_Winter_3453@reddit

Most people don’t have any idea about the conflict. So they just support the “wests” idea. It doesn’t really mean anything.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

'The killings stopped': Tell that to the victims in the mass graves of Maratha, Santalaris, and Aloda, slaughtered in August 1974 during those exact 'peace talks.' Your leadership stalled in Geneva while EOKA-B kept besieging enclaves.

'Capturing 1/3 of the island': It's called creating a defensible perimeter. When you prove you can't live with a minority without trying to exterminate them, borders get redrawn for physical separation (later formalized by the 1975 UN Population Exchange).

'Everyone says it's an invasion': 'Everyone' also ignored the 11 years of state-sponsored ethnic cleansing against Turks before 1974. International consensus is often just geopolitical convenience. We prefer the reality where Turkish Cypriots are alive today because of that 'invasion'."*

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

slaughtered in August 1974 during those exact 'peace talks.'

Those massacres happened DURING the invasion.

EOKA B was considered a terrorrist organization... they even killed Greek Cypriots in their attempt to sieze power.

Are you going to talk about the massacres and ethnic cleansing caused by the invading Turkish army?

It's called creating a defensible perimeter.

Israel would be proud of your choice of words.

'Everyone' also ignored the 11 years of state-sponsored ethnic cleansing against Turks before 1974.

They did a really shitty job of trying to "ethnically cleanse" a minority for 11 years and failing to do so then...

[-]

Jamesanitie@reddit

"Those massacres happened DURING the invasion."

Then you justify the massacre? The invasion was there because of the massacres before hand, imagine how much more massacres would have happened if they were not there?

Your last comment is upset they failed to cleanse them.

Good to know.

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

Then you justify the massacre?

Not at all. I was nerely saying that the massacred happened because the Turkish army invaded.

The invasion was there because of the massacres before hand

No. The Intervention was there for that. The invasion happened so they could grab land.

imagine how much more massacres would have happened if they were not there?

The hostilities had stopped, the Junta had fallen and there were peace negotiations.

Do you know how many massacres happened because of the Turkish army?

Your last comment is upset they failed to cleanse them.

You're just reading whatever you want by now.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

Claiming 'we didn't ethnically cleanse you because you didn't all die' is a new low, even for Greek nationalist propaganda. Turkish Cypriots survived because they armed themselves in ghettos, not because your fascists were merciful. And trying to pass off EOKA-B as just some 'rogue terrorists' when they literally executed a coup and BECAME the government in 1974 is hilarious.

Also, save your dumb Israel comparisons for someone who doesn't know history. Israel occupies to expand; Turkey intervened, drew a hard line to stop you from filling more mass graves, and hasn't fired a bullet or moved a border in 50 years. You lost a war of annihilation that your own side started

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

Claiming 'we didn't ethnically cleanse you because you didn't all die' is a new low,

Do you have the numbers of victims from both sides over these 11 years (with sources obviously)?

not because your fascists were merciful.

I am not a fascist neither am I a Cypriot.

And trying to pass off EOKA-B as just some 'rogue terrorists' when they literally executed a coup and BECAME the government in 1974 is hilarious.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion when I said: EOKA B was considered a terrorrist organization... they even killed Greek Cypriots in their attempt to sieze power.

You need to read what is written to you instead of fantasizing fictional opponents.

Also, save your dumb Israel comparisons for someone who doesn't know history. Israel occupies to expand; Turkey intervened

No. Turkey firstly intervened. Then Invaded to expand. Massacred thousands of Greek Cypriots and resulted in 160.000 civilians leaving their homes and their land (also 51.000 Turkish Cypriots from the south). Then imported thousands of Turkish settlers from the mainland in breach of international law.

The way you as a Turkish nationalist talk about it would make any zionist proud.

How about both Greece and Turkey leave the island to the Cypriots? Are you willing to remove your army and the thousands of settlers and let Cypriots rule their island? Of course you aren't. Because you're a colonizer force.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

Let's look at neutral, international records. According to the widely documented history of the 1963-1964 'Bloody Christmas' massacres (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963) and historian Pierre Oberling's demographic records, that period alone resulted in the deaths of 364 Turkish Cypriots and 174 Greek Cypriots. More importantly, the UN Secretary-General's official report, Document S/5950 (Official UN Archive: Document Viewer ), officially recorded that 25,000 to 30,000 Turkish Cypriots were forced to abandon 103 villages, taking refuge in besieged enclaves that made up merely 3% of the island. Forcing a minority out of their homes and confining them to blockaded ghettos under the threat of violence is the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing.
And regarding your attempt to call me a 'Zionist'... The irony is absolutely palpable. You are trying to use that as an insult against a Turk, while the Greek Cypriot administration and Greece are literally Israel’s closest strategic, military, and energy allies in the Eastern Mediterranean. Your side actively conducts joint military drills with the IDF and buys their weaponry. If anyone is making them proud, it's the state you are defending. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

Regarding your link to the Solomos Solomou incident in 1996: Let's be brutally honestthat is a textbook case of 'fuck around and find out'. The man bypassed UN peacekeepers, crossed into a highly militarized buffer zone, and actively climbed a military flagpole to tear down a foreign army's flag. What exactly is the expected military protocol when a hostile actor attempts to pull down a flag at a heavily guarded border post? Confetti? He wasn't a victim of an 'invasion' expanding its borders; he was a victim of his own extreme nationalist stupidity. A Darwin Award moment at a military border does not change the fact that there has been zero systemic inter-communal violence since 1974.

Finally, you asked a crucial question: 'How about both Greece and Turkey leave the island to the Cypriots? Are you willing to remove your army and let Cypriots rule their island?'

I absolutely agree with you. In fact, we already voted on exactly that.

It was called the 2004 UN Annan Plan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Cypriot_Annan_Plan_referendums). The internationally backed plan proposed a unified, independent Cyprus, a shared government, and the withdrawal of foreign troops. 65% of Turkish Cypriots voted YES to demilitarize and let Cypriots rule their island together. 76% of Greek Cypriots voted NO. We were entirely willing to leave the island to a united Cypriot government; your side overwhelmingly rejected it because your leadership refused to share power equitably. You cannot overwhelmingly vote against a UN unification plan and then cry on the internet about being a divided island. We agreed to your exact proposal 22 years ago; you were the ones who refused it

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

officially recorded that 25,000 to 30,000 Turkish Cypriots were forced to abandon 103 villages, taking refuge in besieged enclaves that made up merely 3% of the island.

Where did you find the "3%" from? I cannot find it.

Around 25,000 Turkish Cypriots from 104 different villages abandoned their homes. These consisted of 72 mixed and 24 Turkish Cypriot villages that were completely evacuated and 8 mixed villages that were partially evacuated. The displacement amounted to a quarter of the Turkish Cypriot population. Approximately 1,200 Armenian Cypriots and 500 Greek Cypriots were also displaced

Forcing a minority out of their homes and confining them to blockaded ghettos under the threat of violence is the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing.

I agree that losing your homes and having to move by force is ethnic cleansing. Very sad thing.

Do you also agree that the Turkish military did ethnic cleansing by displacing 160.000 Greek Cypriots?

Regarding your link to the Solomos Solomou incident in 1996: Let's be brutally honestthat is a textbook case of 'fuck around and find out'.

You can justify it in any crude way you like... but you said the Turks didn't fire a bullet.. they did, and they killed a person who was trying to take down a flag from the buffer zone.

I absolutely agree with you. In fact, we already voted on exactly that.

No you didn't. Turkish military wasn't going to completely withdraw though. The Annan plan was heavily in favour of the Turkish side. It was never going to be accepted by Greek Cypriots for numerous reasons:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_Plan#Reasons_for_rejection_as_explained_by_the_Greek_Cypriots

I know you are heavily biased judging from your language but even you cannot help but accept some of the reasons and understand why it was never going to be voted for.

You also seem to refuse to address the thousands of illegal settlers Turkey has sent over to the occupied lands.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

I want to be completely sincere I deeply sympathize with the Greek Cypriot families who lost their homes in 1974, and I retract my previous harsh tone about the 1996 incidentevery civilian loss is a genuine heartbreak. To answer your specific question about the '3%' figure: it comes from historical documentation and UN reports regarding the 'enclave period' (1963-1974). It doesn't refer to the population, but to the land area. After abandoning over 100 villages, Turkish Cypriots (who made up ~18% of the population) were forced to retreat into heavily blockaded enclaves that collectively covered only about 3% of the island's territory. Understanding why the mass displacement of 1974 happened requires acknowledging this preceding decade of confinement. The resulting demographic shift was a mutual tragedy, eventually formalized by both leaderships in the 1975 Vienna Agreement. And later, the Turkish side accepted painful territorial concessions in the UN Annan Plan just to finally end this, an opportunity that was unfortunately rejected. True reconciliation means acknowledging each other's full history, not just the chapters that start in 1974.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

Unfortunately, bad things happen in wars, and the burden of these falls on civilians. My personal opinion for the future of Cyprus is that both the Greek side and the Turkish side should live in peace. But this is such a complicated issue that it is really hard to find a way out, because both sides inevitably have aspects that conflict with each other

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

Don't throw stones from a glass house.

The vast majority of Greeks are against what Israel is doing. The Greek government is very pro-israel because they need them as an ally. Maybe because we have an aggressive neighbour 8 times our size whose president has numerous times, threatened to attack us?

[-]

Few_Winter_3453@reddit

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro

[-]

Jamesanitie@reddit

Get your facts straight.

Turkey was a guarantor and had approval to land troops in cyprus following massacres of Turkish cypriots which the Turkish government at the time pleaded many times for the west to intervene before it gets messier.

They did not give a fuck and the result is what it is today. Turkey is overstaying their welcome maybe but they have no reason to trust the greeks and cypriots to leave the turkish cypriots lives in their hands. They are also benefiting from northern cyprus for sure no denying that but painting the Turks as pure evil invaders is disingenious and damn right propaganda.

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

Get your facts straight.

Get YOUR facts straight. The first time they intervened every agreed with it.. even Greeks. Then Junta fell and both parties were in the middle of peace negotiations when Turkey invaded and captured the north part of the island. Everyone agrees the first intervention was justified.. noone but Turkey agrees the invasion was justified.

Let's not mention the thousands of settlers Turkey sent over to Cyprus in breach of international law.

but they have no reason to trust the greeks and cypriots to leave the turkish cypriots lives in their hands.

So you think an EU country will suddently start killing it's own populace?

but painting the Turks as pure evil invaders is disingenious and damn right propaganda.

rofl.. when everyone in the world agrees an invasion was an invasion, maybe you're the one gobbling down propaganda.

[-]

Jamesanitie@reddit

When did the Turks invade? 5 days after greek junta coup d'etat.

The junta was the reason they invaded. The reason junta failed was because the Turkish army invaded to prevent further massacres.

What the fuck are they teaching you?

Granted Turks overstayed as I mentioned in my reply but the fact is and still remains to this day, the main reason of invasion was not because "Hurr durr turks are out to get us they are bad people" but genuine concern for the Turkish cypriots.

The settlers were the cypriots who ran to Turkey after the rising tensions in 60's.

Why should Turkey trust that the greek cypriots will not cause grief to Turkish cypriots?

This debate goes both ways and will never end until all 3 countries involved stop fucking clinging onto the past but pride is too much for all three involved. Closest was the UN deal Annan but both parties had their issues with it.

I've said my piece. Excuse the foul language but I am gettinf fed up of the Tr/Gr bullshit thay ultimately is gonna end up a dick measuring contest for politicians and life is still gonna continue the way it is vause all fucking politicians are corrupt.

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

What the fuck are they teaching you?

There was an intervention and then there was an invasion AFTER the Junta had fallen.

What are they teaching you?

Granted Turks overstayed

Ethnic cleansing a local population and you distill it down to "overstayed".

The settlers were the cypriots who ran to Turkey after the rising tensions in 60's.

Bullshit. Thousands of mainland Turks came and settled on the island in the houses owned by Crypriot Greeks. Even The Turkish Cypriots admit this. It's even mentioned in the Annan plan.

Why should Turkey trust that the greek cypriots will not cause grief to Turkish cypriots?

Why would they not? Cyprus is not in the same state it was back then. It's an EU member state. Do you expect an EU country to start killing it's own population?

This debate goes both ways and will never end until all 3 countries involved stop fucking clinging onto the past but pride is too much for all three involved.

Greek Cypriots are the ones who want a united island (Turkish Cypriots as well afaik) and will not accept it divided. It's Turkey that wants a seperate state.

Closest was the UN deal Annan but both parties had their issues with it.

Let's be honest, it vastly favoured Turkish Cypriot side and Annan knew the Greek side would never vote for it... but they were out of time and thought they would at least give it a try. Of course (sadly) it failed...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_Plan#Reasons_for_rejection_as_explained_by_the_Greek_Cypriots

[-]

greece has better foreign relations, turkey tries to play all sides and comes out losing, they try to play russians, arabs and the westerners and all despise them, greece has decided to be on the westerners side and all seem to be on greece's side. Greece also is one of a few countries in europe to not be atheist or agnostic in a majority sense or nig margin, this indirectly gets support from othet christian nations and notably muslim ones who hate turkey.

Not to mention that turkey historically has been a very bad oppressor and ally, whether that be during ww1, the crimean war or literally now.

Im albanian and i personally pick greece, yeah we have our problems but by far we hate turks more.

[-]

Few_Winter_3453@reddit

Whatever you believe bro

[-]

Savings_Dragonfly806@reddit

For the last part, could it also be that you have relatives here in Greece?

[-]

Current-Tough7084@reddit

no, historically turks and greeks have done us wrong, just that greeks didnt occupy us for 500 years.

Also greece is like our second biggest trade partner and greeks and albanians generally tend to visit each other countries like albanians in mykonos (sorry if i pronounced that wrong) or greeks in ksamil and sarande. Greece in my opinion has been done wrong through history by turks, brits, french germans and italians and for being the cradle of western civilisation it deserves better.

Despite never visiting greece i do want to visit it somedays, crete alone has so much id like to see. If we ever join the eu then corfu would literally be a canoe away.

[-]

SOHONEYSAME@reddit

Greece Albania relations is the (actual) "love hate" one that Turks portray the Greek Turk to be.

vast majority of Greeks dislike Turkey. that's undeniable, & backed up by polls.

Turks that visit r considered respectful "cashing cows" for tourism purposes.

there's no "special relationship" or anything like that.

but Albanians can be found across Greece (some had worked even in the most remote islands) & majority have integrated, it's different.

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

"vast majority of Greeks dislike Turkey. that's undeniable, & backed up by polls."

"Turks that visit r considered respectful "cashing cows" for tourism purposes."

"there's no "special relationship" or anything like that."

[-]

YesGameNolife@reddit

Uhh..your opinion after I read your comment I was confused how bad an opinion it is then your last sentence explained a lot.

[-]

chato35@reddit

Komsu, tell me something.

How many of the ppl that you know will support Greek government if 🇬🇷 attacks 🇹🇷?

I don't have too many dumb friends but 100% of them will say fuck no, 50% will be on the streets.

I am from Karșiyaka (That's Kordeloi to you 😁), we are a bit different.

I had Rakı where Atatürk had rakı after the liberation of İzmir.

I also know who started the great fire.

[-]

Savings_Dragonfly806@reddit

Interesting question.

For starters, I haven't really heard anyone that would be in support of Greece attacking Turkey. Since well, we are bothered by the economy, so why go to war. So the opinion of the people will be the same as it was when Venizelos declared war in the 20s. Not in favor.

Personally, I wouldn't be in favor either. Since I know damn well how much stronger and richer your country is. So, to start a war would be a foolish move.

[-]

chato35@reddit

All wars are foolish.

I was talking about the hypothetical.

devoker35@reddit

Japan has incredibly low number of foreigners compared to their population.

[-]

annuminasguard@reddit

Tell that to Japs. They are ones the who are complaining. They even steal the fiber cables.

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

The Japanese are extremely xenophobic and there's a far right sentiment inspired by MAGA growing lately.

Just because they're barking loudly that doesn't mean it's true.

3k in 123mil is by no possible comparison a large number.

[-]

annuminasguard@reddit

Oh mein brother, as i said tell that to Japanese people, it's not my problem. They are complaining about that refugees are going there in masses and destroy their culture. That's their rhetoric, not mine.

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

I'm replying to you because you agreed they were migrating in large numbers.

[-]

ThatOneCloneTrooper@reddit

You can do 1 google search and plenty of stuff will come up. Hell there's even a wikipedia article.

WelcomeDesigner2051@reddit

And turkish weddings are not loud 🤣🤣 i live in germany i have been on plenty of turkish weddings its literally the same as kurdish weddings.

[-]

RyokugyuFan@reddit

I literally live near a kurdish neighborhood called Kanarya in Istanbul. Have you ever been here? The fucking ceremonies and celebrations lasts days and they don't stop the music for a minute here. Not, even for 1 MINUTE.

Every summer is the same.

[-]

WelcomeDesigner2051@reddit

I live in germany and hear turkish wedding convois with turkish flags on their cars every weekend. Just let the people celebrate special days. Even the germans dont get annoyed by these convois. Kurds are citizens of turkey just like u. And in the end we are all muslims no need for this hatred.

[-]

Tridentnutella@reddit

yeah, idk what that guy is on about.

"However, Turkey is a regional power which wants to play both sides (Muslim/middle eastern and western/European simultaneously)"

This sounds like it could cause some social instability.

[-]

Remote-Snow4596@reddit

Those are people participating the poll and governments.

[-]

Tridentnutella@reddit

I mean, I am not really aware of the japanese government aiding, co-operating or supporting Turkey to such an extent that polls like this would come as a surprise.

[-]

Korea, in particular, does not fit at all. Anyone familiar with the history of both nations knows about the deep bond they share.

[-]

Savings_Dragonfly806@reddit

For South Korea, Greece helped them in the Korean war.

[-]

8NkB8@reddit

Downvoted for speaking the truth.

[-]

Savings_Dragonfly806@reddit

The Messiah for real

[-]

No_Idea_479@reddit (OP)

Turkey did the same. Not only that, but they've spent millions in propaganda in the country.

Japan has historically had a few anti-Turkish bursts (e.g. Shibusawa Eiichi, WW1 Caucasus Campaign Japanese volunteers and weapons).

Greeks might be more known in Japan because of the half-Greek race driver Sachio Fukuzawa. Every OG Japanese race-driving fan knows about him, he had a cult following back in the day.

No idea about S. Korea.

[-]

HyrkanianBlade@reddit

Also a very important Japanese literary figure, Yakumo Koizumi (Lefcadio Hearn) was also half Greek.

[-]

"Greece attacking Turkiye" scenario is a nationalist Turk's wet dream, more like a fantasy for them. They do not fear-mongering upon such thing, unlike the Greek nationalists.

[-]

cicikusbabacik07@reddit

Can someone teach the meaning of "hypothetical scenarios" to you?

I'd say, even if unrealistic, this hypothetical scenario did work out well to unmask the Non-Turk stance against the Turkish kind.

[-]

puzzledpanther@reddit

Can someone teach the meaning of "hypothetical scenarios" to you?

I wasn't implying Turkish nationalists constrain themselves to the opinions shared on this topic, just on this thread. Quite the contrary.

did work out well to unmask the Non-Turk stance against the Turkish kind.

gif

[-]

xr3dxi@reddit

Obviously the defender will be favoured in terms of support when we think logically. If u really wanted to see something then the situation had to be swapped into Greece attacking Turkey. The ratio would be way more interesting tbh

[-]

andreiim@reddit

It really doesn't mean much.

The current tensions are mostly about how Turkey feels that it should have more sea rights because from their pov islands don't matter. Therefore, it makes more sense that if a conflict arises, which is unlikely, but that's what we're discussing, Turkey would be the aggressor to obtain some rights that they currently don't have, but would like to. In practice to the extreme. it may mean Greek people living in the Aegean islands would have to leave their homes and that would be a tragedy. Considering the somewhat recent imperial history of Turkey and the root of the current tension, it makes sense that most people would align with the defender. If the majority would agree that islands don't matter, Turkey would have what they want already.

With this being said and with no other context, I would also support Greece, BUT. And it's a big BUT. Turkey and Russia are competitors for control over black sea, therefore Greece, historically, tends to ally with Russia to limit Turkiy's power. From where I'm standing a more powerful Russia means I have to leave my home. Between the tragedy of Greeks having to leave their homes and my family having to leave our homes, I wouldn't think twice about who to support.

If Greeks would have the foresight to not align with Russia in any way, I'd fight to defend the rights of Greek Islanders, but never against my family.

Context matters. Luckily, this is hypothetical, but I wouldn't exclude it on the long term, and I hope all Greeks get it by then, if ever.

[-]

Self-Bitter@reddit

Be more careful in modern history lessons: Greece always sides with the West (more devotedly than Italy Spain or Germany) and not with Russia.

[-]

andreiim@reddit

Tell me there's no Greek that would give in to a Russian promise of reconquering Constantinople for Christians.

But don't tell me that no sane Greek would say this, and it's only something some nut extremists would say. Because of course it's only nuts. Sane people don't make wars.

Are you Turkish brother?

[-]

No_Tell5399@reddit

And yet some Turks somehow believe the bullshit Islamist propaganda that "Turkey is alien to European civilization"

It's pretty natrual when you see maps like these tbh. Lots of younger folk get roped into conservative Islamic beliefs because they're convinced Europeans hate them.

The political right loves a "good vs. evil/us vs. them" story. Whish more ppl knew ab the Irish potato famine.

[-]

chrstianelson@reddit

Erdogan's policy of shitting on Europe through his media empire in order to consolidate his voter base in the last 15 years has done a lot of damage in how Turkish people view Europe, let me tell ya. 20 years ago Turks overwhelmingly supported being an EU member (at a peak of 73%). I remember those times. We were all about being pro-European, becoming a EU member. People were actually hopeful. Which feels unbelievable nowadays.

Then Erdogan started his term and that support started going down. Gezi Park happened, Erdogan openly started turning into a full fledged dictator, which European leaders spoke up against and suddenly Erdogan decided that Europe is the enemy and Erdogan is the hero for standing up against them. Almost every national TV channel in Turkey started pumping the narrative that Europe doesn't want us, they are working against us, that Turkey has no friends and voila. 15 years later people have actually started believing all that bullshit.

And it all started because Erdogan wanted to become a dictator and never give up power.

smh.

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

"Europe doesn't want us, they are working against us, that Turkey has no friends and voila."

is it lie?

"at a peak of 73%"

peak is %60. now %20-25 😃

[-]

chrstianelson@reddit

Be a good neighbour, a reliable ally and don't try to scam people at every turn and we'll see whether they want us or not.

And the peak was 73% in 2004 according to Candidate Countries Eurobarometer 2004.1 study.

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

if they could, they would wipe us out like medieval andalus. the real problem is historical. we have been an object of hatred for them ever since the western huns.

[-]

chrstianelson@reddit

Same story between France and England. Ireland and England. Scotland and England. Russia and Poland.

Historical enmities mean nothing.

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

turks have different race, religion and relatively big population.

[-]

NidzoMadjija@reddit

"civilization"

gif

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Yes, Buddhist culture that you see in Indochina is a Civilization with it's own values, structures, mindsets and ideas. West is a civilization. Islamic worlds also form a civilization. Civilization doesn't forcefully mean a "beautiful" thing as you can imagine. It is produced by people and vary according to the place that it was generated.

[-]

NidzoMadjija@reddit

Don't hide behind Buddhists, I was talking about turkics and turkey specifically

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

I never said Turkic Civilization

I said Turkey belongs to the Islamic Civilization.

"Turkey belongs to the Eastern Civilization, the Islamic Civilization that extends from Egypt to Malaysia. It is not an Islamic country, but it belongs to the Islamic World."

[-]

NidzoMadjija@reddit

Oh I understand you, no worries

But I also know what I said

[-]

PomegranateOk2600@reddit

If Erdogan stays more in power maybe. But Ataturk tried to build a new culture for the turks, one closer to the western civilization rather than east. Changing the alphabet changed alot, because nowadays the connection to arabic is low to nonexistent probably.

Maybe the turkish culture isnt yet one western, but for sure it isnt an eastern one anymore.

[-]

S0mber_@reddit

we are an eastern civilization. there is no need to feel ashamed of this. i am sick of trying to appeal to the west who frankly will never accept us as one of their own. we will be a democractic country that is respecting to the liberties of its people, but not a part of the west.

[-]

PomegranateOk2600@reddit

When I think about eastern culture I think about Arabs, Iranians and if we go further, indians, chinese and japanese. To me you don’t similar to them. Also appeal which west? The idiot french, british and germans which destroyed their countries?

[-]

S0mber_@reddit

we are turks, we are literally "the east" the average european pictured a few hundred years ago. geographically, it might look as if we're right between "the east" and "the west", but that is precisely because they made the cutoff based on us. typically, all the people you listed would be called "eastern", with chinese and japanese being "far eastern". but the ones who come up with these definitions are the westerners themselves, and clearly they don't see us with them.

[-]

Available_Bus_9010@reddit

Well i am not accepting this statement. Even DNA researches shows we are almost not have bound with Middle Asian Turks. If you are not genetically Turk, it means you are just using that identity. You can change your identity whatever you like anyways.

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

lol

[-]

Available_Bus_9010@reddit

LoL

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

no

A tiger raised by lions may learn their habits, language, and culture, but it is still a tiger, not a lion.

[-]

S0mber_@reddit

this understanding of race is wrong. sure, you may call an entire population of turks "not turks" because their genetic contribution from central asia is low, but you'd still have an entire population you refuse to give a name. the thing is, genetic contribution hardly matters for a race to continue existing.

the thing is, there really were no "turkish people" with distinct genetic differences anywhere in the history for you to compare modern turks. any nomadic people living in central asia at some point were simply called turks and their genetic background were always mixed. the people of central asia of today may have different genetic backgrounds than people of turkey, but that is expected as they diverged a lot geographically. this does not mean turks are not turkic.

[-]

Available_Bus_9010@reddit

Well, DNA evidence shows that our biological ancestry is much closer to Greeks, Balkan peoples, Hittites, and Iranians than to Central Asian Turks. In that sense, I am making a similar point.

I understand that "Turk" is not a race but rather a community, culture, and identity formed through the mixing of different tribes that came from Central Asia. However, the Central Asian groups that entered Anatolia originated from a very different genetic, historical, and cultural background than the indigenous populations of the Balkans, Anatolia, and the Eastern Mediterranean. In that sense, they were not native to these regions but newcomers who became part of the local population over time.

So if someone identifies as Turkish, that is completely understandable.

However, on a personal level, why should I necessarily identify as Turk if my genetic ties are much stronger to the Aegean and Balkan regions? That is the part that does not seem logical to me.

Imagine that Brazil were conquered by African tribes, and after 1,000 years the population ended up with only 10-30% African ancestry while the majority of their genetics remained local. Would it make sense to say that those people must identify as African? To me, it would not.

That said, I have no problem with how anyone chooses to identify themselves. Everyone is free to define their own identity. But i am choosing to calling myself as Anatolian Local.

[-]

shiwonozomu_majochan@reddit

Turkish culture is more similar to Asian cultures such as Malaysian or Uyghur than it is to Romanian or Greek, let alone further western peoples like Germans or French. The presence of muhacirs with roots in Balkans doesn’t change that fact. You can’t talk about what Turkish culture entails if you haven’t ever been in deep corners of Anatolia, spoken to people from the villages of Tokat or Erzincan, observed the familial relations in Antep or Rize, or argued about the differences in mindset with people from Sivas or Konya.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Most of the Sunni Muslim countries won't pick Greece in this case.

The Anti-Arab people from Turkey generally use the Arab Revolt where 30K of Bedouins from Hejaz marched through Levant with British aid as an excuse for their racism while 300K of Arab soldiers fought side by side with the Ottomans at that time. In the other hand, many people in the West make assumptions by the commentaries that they read online and say "Hahaha! You see! Even the easterners don't like you!" to demoralize the counterpart. This really doesn't have a correspondence in reality.

Yes, it is right that the position of Turkey is disputed in the Muslim world by many countries. However, defending an unprovoked invasion is one different thing. There are some groups like Kurds or perhaps Egyptians who hold a grudge on us and has ancient ties with Greece, or Gulf Arabs that see us as rivals, but if you wanna look at the totality, Turkey's prestige in the Muslim world is pretty high. (Considering Arabs make 80% of the Muslims) Many Sunni Syrians are very thankful to Turkey, they already were pro-Turk before the civil war. Today in Netherlands, Turks are the group that the Moroccans marry most after their own community and we have Turkish grooms/brides in Turkey. I don't even have to think about Southeast Asian Muslims. The image of Turkey as a total in the Muslim world, is not sufficient for other Muslims to support the invasion and massacre of.

[-]

mirror__magic@reddit

Most of the Sunni Muslim countries won't pick Greece in this case.

I wouldnt be so sure

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

why?

[-]

mirror__magic@reddit

do you know what at arab peninsula happened in ww1

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Yes 30K of bedouins revolted under Hashemites. We had 300K Arab soldiers in the Army back then. This revolts didn't happen in Syria, Iraq or Palestine.

Rebels marched from Hejaz to Levant as you can see in this chart demonstration.

[-]

koltuklanmis_kargi@reddit

I've been to Jordan , which is ruled by the grandson of Shariff Hussein who started the Arab Revolt. The amount of love/respect you receive from the Arabs just for the sake of being a Turk and "a grandson of the Ottomans" is incredible.

[-]

gk98s@reddit

It's not as simple as that, as a Turk I would support the defender 100%. If Turkey attacks, then I'd support Greece but if Greece attacks I'd support Turkey

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Most people don't think like this.

As human beings we are tribalists, we support those we can identify as "We" and exclude those who are not "We".

Believe me, all the "non-racist" people in Europe that you see, they'd be celebrating if Greece invades Turkey and unalives Turkish civillians.

[-]

gk98s@reddit

I mean it's not the case with Gaza tho is it? Most people support Palestine eventho Palestine is as distant as you get from Western civilisation where gender equality, lgbtq rights, etc are in shambles. Whereas Israel is way closer to Western culture/values.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

Bruh.

In Europe we are the Israel.

We took away the Anatolia, the cradle of Christian Civilization, we took away their capital.

[-]

plebbitchungus@reddit

Lol. Only dumb larpers think like this. Not saying there is any shortage of westoids like that, especially in the US, but like, chill my guy.

If anything, knowing my mere existence makes some dumbasses from some the other side of the planet butthurt gives me joy.

[-]

Alternative_Turn_470@reddit

You’re talking a lot of nonsense on here brother. And you have a massive victim complex. Literally nobody here I know in Ireland hates Turks. Saying all Europeans hate Turks and we cry for 'our capital' whatever that means.

[-]

Inner_Variety2826@reddit

Chill my guy. I don't think Europeans care that much for the fall of Constantinople and the end of the Byzantine/Roman empire in 1453, hell they played a big part on this happening. Most people that hold a grudge against Turkey it's because of how the government handles international matters that many times go against European intest (blocking countries for joining NATO for example). Plus the big rise of ultra nationalism that's becoming more and more vocal on denying some "shady" event's doesn't help either.

[-]

Available_Bus_9010@reddit

They can celebrate like you can celebrate 1453. What is the problem? They lost their land while defending and they want to took it back. It is natural response, you should expect that...

[-]

No_Idea_479@reddit (OP)

What's funny is that Kyrgyzstan is 2-to-1 for Greece here.

Obviously insignificant, but personally I wouldn't doubt a 25-30% favouring Greece in a neutral scenario.

[-]

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit

This kind of polls are not very reliable. Because there's no way to prevent you from lying about your country, number of participants are low and generally comes from 1 type of group from their countries (The Redditors).

However, it is true that Kazakhstan (despite being Turkic) would support Greece invading Turkey in the case of an invasion. Also Gulf Arabs, Kurds and Egyptians would side with Greeks.

If we exclude them, the overwhelming majority of Turkic countries, Syria, Palestinians, Afghans, Maghrebins and Southeast Asian Muslims would support Turkey in this case. We don't always get along, but in an invasion scenario, they wouldn't side with the invaders.

[-]

No_Idea_479@reddit (OP)

I know, it's basically the best we have right now and it's bad. I don't think any polling company would waste their time on that issue.

However, it is true that Kazakhstan (despite being Turkic) would support Greece invading Turkey in the case of an invasion. Also Gulf Arabs, Kurds and Egyptians would side with Greeks.

I get the latter, but Kazakhstan? I have seen some Kazakhs who post some vague anti-Turkish online, but I was guessing it wasn't that deep or anything. Mostly an online phenomenon.

[-]

You have to remember there are a LOT of russians or russified people in the ex-USSR Turkic countries. So even if this poll was genuine, and properly done, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kazakhstan/uzbekistan/kyrgyzstan in blue due to those people voting for their 'orthodox brothers.' No Kazakh would ever side against Turkey, we love Turkey and consume a fuckload of Turkish media. Never in my life have I seen a Kazakh express negative sentiment towards Turkey here. Just because we don't want some pan-Turkic state to exist doesn't mean we are anti-Turkey. And it's nothing personal, we just cherish our independence too much, after decades of USSR.

[-]

No_Idea_479@reddit (OP)

Never in my life have I seen a Kazakh express negative sentiment towards Turkey here.

Not saying that you're necessarily wrong, but some of Kazakhs argue that Anatolian Turks steal Kazakh history and try to force them to Pan-Turkism. This meme was trending on Kazakh & Turkish twitter a few days ago. I don't agree with it obviously, but it was there.

[-]

readyornotb@reddit

PomegranateOk2600@reddit

I wont compare the islamicity of Turkey with the ones in Iran or Pakistan, Turkey is similar to how Albania is.

I was yesterday on the street and saw girls so underdressed that even many romanian women wont be, for example.

[-]

Waste-Restaurant-939@reddit

"iran, pakistan, albania" "underdressed"

Same-Ad-6523@reddit

Well please research the bloody christmas from a non-biased pov and also read other sources than western only, there is a reason the event that happened in 1974 happened and not before or after

[-]

S0mber_@reddit

there are multiple pages in this post, the last one showing if greece were to attack turkey 44% of voters would still be with greece as opposed to 37% being with turkey

[-]

oops_all_memes@reddit

this is the case for most muslim majority countries like Iran

Even if we put aside the fact that all three countries mentioned have extremely problematic regimes, surprisingly many people support Iran in its war against the US. I think to people it is important how they view the other side and who attacked first

[-]

No-Heart3432@reddit

Türkiye isn't as Muslim as Pakistan or Iran. New generation are mostly nonbelievers.

[-]

Potential-Run-6540@reddit

Honey wake up another post about Turks dropped by No_Idea_479

[-]

No_Idea_479@reddit (OP)

This is how I've been moving recently:

Israel was founded as a colonial project and has a colonial identity to its core. Greece is a homegrown nation that was founded by the same people that lived in that land without interruption. They are foundamentally different, and despite what our shitty government might make you think, most Greeks don't like Israel at all.

[-]

No_Idea_479@reddit (OP)

gif

As an arab, this map looks so wrong based on the arab attitudes towards Turkey that I've observed throughout the years. Most arabs would be neutral or support Turkey.

The only arab nationality that would DEFINITELY be against Turkey is Saudi. They call erdogan "gerdogan" there which means "Monkey-gan". Lebanon would be divided as almost all Christians and Secularists would support Greece, while religious muslims would support Turkey.

[-]

Univer001@reddit

As a turk, i dont understand people who would support turkey if we decided to invade greece out of the blue.

[-]

Lumpy-Valuable-8050@reddit

UK being Greece? Lol

Oops sorry. Thanks.

[-]

Stalaagh@reddit

Nobody would support a Greek attack in Turkey, in fact people would be overwhelmingly against it.

If Turkey attacked first, which it has threatened to several times, people would gladly fight.

[-]

Early-Show2886@reddit

Op you have a big issue with your identiy. it seems to me.

[-]

Genocidal authoritarian regimes illegally invading a European nation typically doesn't go over well in the polls.

[-]

many_zeros@reddit

Not being able to consider hypothetical scenarios is scientifically a sign of low intelligence, just saying.

[-]

Surfer_Rick@reddit

I am describing the reaction to the hypothetical scenario OP posted, by drawing on other contemporary examples. Such as Russia invading Ukraine or Israel invading Lebanon.

What hypothetical scenario am I neglecting?

[-]

O_945@reddit

Friend read the title of the post but failed to read the title of the map

[-]

Surfer_Rick@reddit

In a conflict between an authoritarian state and a democratic one, the result is the same. People rightly assume the warmongering authoritarian state is to blame.

as you can see, there’s always an excuse. who's right doesn't even matter. muslims support muslims, christians support christians. welcome to the real world

[-]

YogurtclosetSad9472@reddit

There is a basis to that, but the concepts of "just war" are different in the theologies of Christianity and Islam...

[-]

TheOnurobo@reddit

Well governments are not the same with reddit users, i dont necessarily believe that support for greece would be that high, it mostly relies on who proves or attacks first, while greece is a NATO member just like Turkey is, they are orthodox and they are not necessarily reliable in a Russian war as they were in serbian war, But Russia has been the biggest rival of Turkey throughout the history and Turkey is reliable in that regard so, EU might just even stay neutral, if Turkey attack first, Turkey attacking first means there is definetely an agreement going on with the US in background so its 3 dimensional chest in a sense

[-]

I am turkish my guy i just can see we keep losing

[-]

Check last poll.

[-]

chrstianelson@reddit

The poll is bullshit simply because it starts with a leading question. That alone disqualifies it as a serious attempt at gauging public opinion.

With that said, Turkey always sucked at international PR. Never had a politically powerful diaspora like Greece, Armenia or Israel who kept demonizing Turkey in western societies with state funded campaigns. The one powerful diaspora Turkey has is the one in Germany, but unlike Greek, Israelite or Armenian diaspora, those who emigrated to Germany (and to a lesser extent other European countries) weren't (relatively) educated, progressive, liberal, urbanites but highly conservative, uneducated, rural Turks from Central and Eastern Anatolia.

And the last 20 years of Erdogan regime and his policy of ruthless realpolitik at every turn even against long standing allies has eroded what little good will Turkey had internationally.

[-]

yns1899@reddit

Christian vs Muslım

[-]

SiofraRiver@reddit

Read the fucking question and drop your victim mentality.

[-]

Odio-gli-imbecilli@reddit

Most Muslim countries in this map would support Greece chief, the real reason is that Turkey has always kept an active stance on foreign politics and it's considered an aggressive power in the region, like Israel or Iran.

Most of Europe will mainly support us with funds and ammunition and would fight by us through social media.

Most muslim countries will definitely aid Turkey, and most of Asia (besides Russia) will side by Turkey or won't get involved at all, maybe just get involved through social media.

[-]

radjPpP@reddit

Mhm OP what is the purpose of this post?
First I thought you only posted this information for the purpose of it being interesting but reading your comments I can’t help but feeling you are quite clearly having an agenda. Elevating Greece by calling them an ancient civilisation (which is true) while calling Turks famous for kebab, genocide and Kurds (which is also true but I feel there is more to be said).

Honestly disappointing to see people here trying to divide people instead of uniting.

Stverghame@reddit

Serbs would support Greece, but Serbian dictator would probably go with Turkish dictator. He kinda likes going against the will of the people.

[-]

Early-Show2886@reddit

The outcome was to be expected, after all. As a Turk, you simply stand no chance against the Greek lobby—not with all the anti-Turkish smear campaigns currently being waged.

[-]

Character-Pirate1297@reddit

FFS with that same old question.

[-]

Flat-Employment-4165@reddit

When I visited Greece, I didn’t feel like I was in a typical Balkan country; instead, I felt like I was in a European state, more in the style of Slovenia or Southern Italy. It is, without a doubt, a strong cultural part of Europe. I understand the dynamics of Europe and their 'all for one' motivation. However, wars are unfortunately fought with weapons, not just rhetoric. For instance, France might stand firmly behind Greece today in political terms, but a mother in Normandy would not easily send her child to die in a war against the Turks just to defend the Greeks.

In such a conflict, Greece would suffer immense loss of life and territorial damage. Furthermore, the European Union would be the biggest loser in such a scenario. They heavily underestimate Turkey’s role as a fortress, guarding the gates of Europe. Neither the Bulgarians nor the Greeks are strong enough to hold those gates. If Turkey were to open its borders for even a month, it would bring Europe to its knees.

Beyond the strategic side, the idea of killing and taking lives for the sake of politicians and those obsessed with mapping games is absurd. Why should we get amputated, die, or commit atrocities just for the sake of wealthy elites? We only have 60-70 years to live; why spend it trying to destroy one another? These 'old men' in power should be the ones solving these issues so that people don't have to die. Bureaucracy should exist to resolve problems through dialogue, not to create them.

[-]

Downtown-Figure6434@reddit

It’s eurocentricism. Ofc no matter what Greece can do no wrong and Turkey can do no right

Even their stance on Ukraine war is not all “white” as they like to think. They are just happily turning Ukraine to a meat grinder for the Russian army by letting the war drag out instead of helping them with a decisive blow and kick the Russians out. Ukraine wont be accepted into nato or eu either. They will be discarded just as soon as they think Russia is weak enough