Is there a reasonable alternative for authors and commenters?
Posted by baziotis@reddit | RedditAlternatives | View on Reddit | 28 comments
Let me be clear. This is not a rant about Reddit; or at least I do not care about one. Whatever problems I have with Reddit, I am convinced they will not get solved, and in my experience they are getting worse. So, there is no point ranting. Any complaint mentioned in this post has a single purpose: to describe what I am looking for, but more importantly, to describe what I am not looking for.
In short, I am looking for an online space in which authors can post their content so that the community, the author included, can engage with the content through a discussion. I care primarily about written, long-form content. At the same time, ere is what I do not care about at all:
a) Q&A
b) Posted content whose poster is not the author
You will probably say "this is what Reddit is for." Well, no. Please let me explain.
First of all, why not other platforms? What about Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, etc.? These platforms do not endorse long-form content and discussion. You have to scroll past tens of posts before you can find any that is long-form, and then scroll past many of those to find anything that transcends frivolous topicality. So, as a reader it's unbelievably hard to find noteworthy content, and as an author your content does not reach the people you want.
So, why not Reddit instead? At first glance, Reddit is better, because your content does indeed reach more people. But there are several problems. First of all, I am not picky when it comes to topics. To me if it's good content (long-form, novel, coherent, etc.), it can be about anything. An example I like to give is that I could read any article by Michael Sandel no matter the topic. He could write about the Kardashians and I wouldn't care. But that is exactly against the philosophy of Reddit (I can't argue with that, it's a matter of opinion). So, if you are like me, you have to subscribe to like a thousand subreddits if you do not want to limit yourself by topic.
But here is the problem: most Reddit posts are either in category a) or b) mentioned earlier. Thus, Reddit has its own version of the problems Facebook, Twitter, etc. also have. Namely, I have to scroll through hundreds of posts to find something of worth. But in this case, the flooding is exacerbated because of the multiple subreddits; their streams meet up at my timeline to create a forceful torrent of garbage.
And then there are the moderators. It is hard to imagine more illiberal gatekeepers. So here is what happens. First, they come up with about five hundred rules. You may think this is turning into passive-aggressive griping, but please allow me to put it into perspective. I have submitted to a fair number of peer-reviewed conferences, but I also happen to know people from fields different from my own. Thus, while I submit to computer-science conferences, I also know what happens e.g., in philosophy journals. Thus, collectively, I have a fairly decent idea of what happens in the peer-review ecosystem. Now, I think we can all agree that the peer-review system is one of the most illiberal institutions, and in fact by design. It's a feature, not a bug. See, for example, Peer Review: A Critical Inquiry, Chapter 2. What is more, unlike Reddit, conferences and journals affect careers, tenures, promotions, recognition---which also means money; a lot of it.
Yet, I have never come across a peer review venue with as many rules as most subreddits I have subscribed to. We are not talking about 1 or 2 fewer rules. We are talking about a difference of 1 or 2 orders of magnitude. What is more, the rules in peer-review conferences are easy to follow. For example, I have never personally met anyone who has gotten desk-rejected; ever.
By contrast, on Reddit, moderators come up with a literally incomprehensible set of rules, and then if you disobey one of them rule, what happens? Do they tell you nicely "you missed rule X, you should know for next time"? No. They remove your post, they lock it, and they ban you. If we return to our comparison with peer review, we will see how preposterous this is. As you know, peer review is a priori. This means reviewers are asked to judge without knowing what the community at large thinks of a paper. And frankly, this is tough. On Reddit, however, moderators will do all of those things even if it is qualitatively, quantitatively, and a posteriori clear that the content benefits the community.
Lastly, I know for a fact that all this absurdity does not affect me only as an author, but also as a reader. Many novel, thoughtful posts have been censored, taken down, authors banned, comments deleted. What is left on my timeline is "here is how to pronounce 'banana'" posts.
So, I want to get away as fast as possible, but currently I feel stuck. Is there any alternative for authors and readers who love long-form, written content, and discussions?
WanderingInAVan@reddit
Working on a passion project sort of like this using Drupal as a base.
Haven't been able to get my brain working enough at times. You know how it is.
That being said you might just need to set up a small site and a connected forum for such things. I am sort of trying that with Darkscribes.com. have a front page that will eventually display updates from RSS feeds of different sites and a connected forum.
Let me know your opinion on that set up.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
Well, I'm happy and almost proud you are doing this. I think it could work (although my suspicion is that to do it correctly, it should be its own thing rather than linking stuff) but for the time being I am struggling to accept that this relatively simple thing I'm talking about does not already exist.
WanderingInAVan@reddit
It just depends on how you define doesn't exist.
The Darkscribes project is just me creating something as a community but not an archive. Hence the links.
If you are looking for an archive setup thats why Content Management Systems exist. Its just a question of how you handle structured documents really.
The discussion part is easily handled through a discussion forum. Though I am pondering something for the project review discussion wise.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
I am this disaggregated system will not work because remember many authors e.g., in philosophy are not tech savvies to handle all these different systems. But I think I'm missing something in what you described.
WanderingInAVan@reddit
Yeah, I may be a bit wonky here.
The disaggrgation occurs because really where do you want the discussion of an article to happen? Specifically in the comments section of that article? Do you want to do a full forum behind it like I think Wikipedia does? Have a community forum that connects to the site by a link but is separate and able to have a different level of discussion.
I'm the kind of person that slightly more complex systems aren't more difficult for. Its an issue at times.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
Yeah, in fact I think the comments _have_ to be separate from the article because I think the article should not be on the platform, only shared there. But that's not the problem, the problem is how will be people see it.
WanderingInAVan@reddit
It sounds workable. Basically move comments to a seperate page linked to the content piece. I should see if I can n prototype something.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
No I mean the point is how will it get publicity? Let me explain from the reader's point of view. I am interested in, say, articles about philosophy. How do I get to see new articles and authors if e.g., I don't follow them on Twitter or I am not in their mailing list?
FidoTheDogFacedBoy@reddit
Poor moderation does not deter people from trying to use a subreddit for their own purposes. The site is built on a wiki and wikis don’t work unless people are polite, but the user list is literally anyone, so this will never go away.
You are the moderator when you post to your profile, or to a subreddit you made. You can disable all comments, requiring people to only make long posts. You can set a character minimum with the Automoderator. You can tailor your timeline to subreddits where a huge gap separates the experts from the rank and file, and then add as Friends the accounts with the best posts, and then check your Friends list first before the timeline. Subreddits devoted to the work of singular famous thinkers such as r/Jung sometimes have good posts. If you write something you think is good, you can crosspost it from your own profile or subreddit into one of those, and delete it from there if people are rude. There will still be posts originating from elsewhere and I don’t know what to do about that.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the comment. If I understood correctly, your suggestion is that I create my own subreddit. But this is volunteering. That's great, but there is a limit to how much volunteering one can do at any point in time, and currently I cannot do any more.
A second thing is I do not know if anyone else cares about the content I care about. So, perhaps the thing I am looking for does not exist and will not exist because not enough people care about it, or they don't know how to find each other.
Finally, please note that discussions are very important to me. I wouldn't want to disable comments and in my post I did not complain about comments. The reason is that this is not a platform problem. It's a more general problem. I am not saying it does not annoy me, but it is much less worse than moderators censoring posts willy-nilly or with excuses such as "yeah, in this case it is unreasonable but that's the process". Sometimes I'm wondering if they have ever read The Banality of Evil...
Anyway, this is Reddit, it won't change. That's why I'm asking for alternatives outside of it.
DualityEnigma@reddit
I mean, you’re kinda asking for others to volunteer to solve this problem for you. The best way is for you to solve this yourself by creating a sub or finding alternatives.
I’ve mad my social network a co-op so your feedback would be welcome. But change will not happen without you “volunteering” to work on the change you want.
r/tribesapp
baziotis@reddit (OP)
I'm not asking anyone to volunteer and solve this problem for me. All I asked for was whether anyone knows of an existing solution. If I establish that there is none, then it's a completely different discussion.
DualityEnigma@reddit
I think some of what you're asking for exists on our platform but not 1:1 for sure. I'd love to have your feedback and be part of the conversation. https://tribes.app/signup
Use this for lifetime Founder Membership: TRIBE-W4P6-CMNQ
baziotis@reddit (OP)
In this particular problem, "some" is not enough. In fact, even "more" is not enough. You see, Reddit has more than what I'm asking and that is exactly the problem. For example, your app has Q&A. I can't share a post, the link doesn't work for me, but e.g., in t/bookaholics-r-us there are a bunch of Q&A posts. As I said in my original post, this just clutters up my feed. That's just my opinion, just part of what I am looking for.
DualityEnigma@reddit
Great feedback thanks. Tribes is primarily about connection between people, which tends to involve a lot of questions. In Tribes you can fully customize your feed, join the tribes you want or don't want,
It sounds like the challenge is that what you want is more of a curated topical entertainment like feed. That's something that needs to be curated or generally created. Any social network is going to be full of Q&A posts, which is funny, isn't this thread a question we are all answering?
Good luck in your quest!
djfrodo@reddit
I (sort of) did this at Headcycle
It's basically an expanded version of reddit but top level posts can include images, videos, table of contents, etc. and they can be saved as drafts so you can edit posts as many times as you like before publishing (or after).
Check out the following:
A Beginners Guide to Lap Swimming
A Small Tactile Web Assistant for the Visually Impaired - Midi Edition
Good luck!
baziotis@reddit (OP)
Thanks! I have my own blog, I don't a platform to upload my content exactly as I want it. I just want to foster a community. For this purpose, what you sent seems not much different from Reddit, and it has users posting content that is not their own, which I don't like.
thegoatgod@reddit
Tl;dr
keener91@reddit
OP wants more creative control over their posts as an author and is looking for alternative to Reddit that can accomplish their goal.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
I'm sorry but no. And if this post is too long for someone, then they cannot help me.
Successful_Summer158@reddit
Hey, I think you're looking for something like a blogging platform with strong community features rather than a typical forum. Check out Ghost (self-hosted) or WriteFreely, they let authors post long-form content and readers can comment directly. If you want a Reddit-like structure but where only authors create posts, you could set up a Discourse forum with posting restricted to approved users. That way each post is from the author, and the community discusses underneath. Lemmy also allows per-community rules, but you'd need to enforce it manually.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
These are great suggestions, but they require me to create the platform. For now I'm trying to see if something exists already.
Successful_Summer158@reddit
Ghost and WriteFreely both have hosted options, no self-hosting required. Also check out Substack or Medium; they're built for authors posting long-form with reader comments. Those exist now.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
Just to be clear, I don't need a platform to publish my articles. I have a blog on my own website. In fact, I am against such platforms. I think authors should completely own their articles and only share them on such platforms (so Medium and Substack do not solve anything for me). So, the point of the platform is the fostering of a community. WriteFreely and Ghost don't help with that because thy don't have comments.
quarrel-admin@reddit
https://quarrel.ing/posts/4e27b6ab-4159-4b28-b6cf-acff047e2697
Youre welcome to join, i want it to be for creators.
baziotis@reddit (OP)
There are some problems I can see with this. The main one for me is that to see the posts, you need to be logged in, kind of like Medium. But thanks.
quarrel-admin@reddit
You shouldnt need to be logged in to see posts. I do want lurkers to enjoy as well so ill update for a lurker friendly viewing. But when you click on a post it should pop up with a message hey sign up. Then close out.
If the post isnt loading ill fix that later todat. With an added nav bar for lurkers.
FrankCastle2020@reddit
Openspace.social has long posts that supports 10000 characters and multi dimensional content with videos and photos etc