How hard is for a 30something to buy a 30-55m2 apartment in your country
Posted by Responsible_Trick466@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 78 comments
Ill go first: In Albanian capital its very hard for a single person to buy a home here so many either buy in other nearby cities or they become a couple and take a 40 year mortgage .
universitate@reddit
Common, but expensive and also often undesirable. Like every other Moldovan, I'd rather not live at home and come back when I'm old, and by then also live in the countryside. I have invested into my parents' house after getting a substantial inheritance from my grandparents because I plan on moving them where I live and selling their place at some point. It's not the housing, it's everything else.
FriendlyRiothamster@reddit
I remember that I looked up a house for sale in 2012. It was in good aparent condition, had about 100 m² and a small yard for 100k €. Now you can buy a 80 m² apartment in a new construction for that money. Prices are insane.
Buddha_of_Arbanon@reddit
I live in Pristina, and the situation is laughable. Apartment complexes are being built everywhere, over 30% of them sit empty, but the prices go from 1300 to 3000 per meter square. I believe this is due to cartel forming, and I ain’t falling for that scam.
I am 30 now, worked hard for 10 years, managed to save a good amount of money, and i thought thst till now i’ll have an apartment of my own, but nah.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
I had the idea that Pristina was cheaper smh
Buddha_of_Arbanon@reddit
Housing is an investment now, not a right. And the rich do the investing, meanwhile the others deal with crumbs.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
For me housing is a right especially considering we have no safety net like social help or such
Buddha_of_Arbanon@reddit
It very much is. I often say that birds build their nests, but we as the most advanced species on earth are prevented to have a home. But modern economics beg to differ.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
For me home is where a house on my name is .
AbbreviationsFree792@reddit
Completely the same in Montenegro with the part u list the viable ways to achieve it. And isnt it crazy how our cultures always potentialise honor and morals, while the very system in them is telling us:"Get immoral or sink."
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Good point. Morals are the more important but survival is most important. Its so discouraging watching honest people slave their whole lives and dont even got a 45m2 in their name and even a pension sometimes meanwhile a comming prostitute or drug dealer have a luxurious 100m2 house in a nice new building with elevator and have travelled whe whole world at only 30 . :/
My mom discourages me from making money the wrong way but all my jobs have been on the black and in some way involved scamming i just wasnt very good at it enough to have a house in my name already .
Mammoth-Effort1433@reddit
Impossible
BeatnologicalMNE@reddit
You can take 40 year mortgage in Albania? Really?
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Im not sure but the wages are low here so i imagine they might
BeatnologicalMNE@reddit
Really doubt it tbh as everyone who is at least remotely financially literate would take 40 years loan ASAP.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Yeah, probably 30 . I mean if youre 30 when you get approved for a mortgage that would mean until 70 lol, haha. But that 30 feels like 40 when it comes to high interests and low salaries :/
BeatnologicalMNE@reddit
Freaking hell... I had to look up your interest rates and I'm beyond baffled...
Goes up to 8-9% for real estate mortgage? What the hell...
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Albania is crazy
BeatnologicalMNE@reddit
Yea I know but I was not expecting that high rates tbh, that's beyond absurd. 😞
ImamTrump@reddit
30 m2 is sad af. Prisoners get 5m2.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Better to own 30m2 than pay high rent for 45m2 imo
ExtremeProfession@reddit
Not easy for sure, depends on the industry you and your spouse work in.
You'll find many people in finance and IT with their own studio apartments, but it's also becoming impossible for them as prices for buildings constructed 50-100 years ago are minimum 2500 euros per sqm, reaching even 3500-4000 if they're in a better state.
New construction typically starts around 3500 if it's in a remotely desirable area with those closer to centre being around 5000 euros per sqm.
Icy_Cherry5559@reddit
I live in Split 6000-8000€m2 so impossible🤣
Responsible-Egg4156@reddit
In croatia really hard , i would say desirable locations m2 is above 3000 goes up to 6000 , but dont expect a 3000 to be a "center" just in town , while avarage pay is around 1400 1500 i guess
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
So expensive !! Im so sorry for you guys
mne1237@reddit
Montenegro, id say its similar to your situation. Average take home pay is 1000 euro, average sqm cost is 2500 euro.
People buy with 30+ year loans. I still have not bought and ive been working for 10 years.
Planning to buy soon tho.
Ecstatic-Team7837@reddit
In Slovenia, I would say it is really hard. An old one-bedroom apartment in Ljubljana easily costs around 200,000 to 300,000 EUR. Keep in mind that these apartments date back to the 1970s and are only around 50 m2. The average wage is around 1,600 EUR. For younger people who are just starting a job and earning less than the average wage, it is quite impossible without substantial financial help from their parents. And if you take out a loan you need to have already 20% of the total price saved in cash. And if you take out a loan, you need to have at least 20% of the total price saved up in cash.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
God
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
Greece here but have some insighta from the UK, Germany and Switzerland:
Challenge impossible really.
You just can't unless you have in cash half the value of your desired property to put-in as deposit. Plus, depending on the price of the apartment you want to buy, a spouse is required in order to secure a loan.
I am one of the lucky ones to be already owning property in Greece at least.
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
I need to mention that youngsters typically go for 50-70m² in Greece and 30-60m² in the other aforementioned countries.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
That must hurt the pockets though
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
Yeah even when you earn like 5.000€ brutto in Germany (2600-3500€ net pay) if you count in expenses like housing, groceries and a leased car you are practically left with nothing at the end of the month.
Meanwhile tech stocks in the US keep skyrocketing and we are about to witness another bull run soon in crypto.
So this tells you all you need to know.
There is a catch in Greece however because many people heavily invested in real estate for the last 60-70 years, thus letting their kids enjoy a constant stream of passive income which keeps many people afloat.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Smart parentd
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
Yeah barely my case though 😆
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Well you can still inherit the one your parents live in
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
P.S. Thank God for albanian handymen in Greece, they literally revived two of my crumbling properties the last couple of years.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
It used to be much more easy, but since the financial education is pretty bad, for many people real estate is the only viable investment vehicle. Together with this, probably billions of money from the grey economy had to be legalized prior to switching to euro and that created an enormous boost in demand for apartments. The market cooled off since, but the prices remain low (and since the construction activity is expected to cool off too, I don't expect the prices to go down any time soon).
So currently (not only Sofia, but even in small towns) it is incredibly hard for a single young person to buy an apartment. Yes, the interest rates are very low, but the prices are very high. You would need at least 30% in cash, otherwise you would have to repay insane sum to the bank.
Which creates a weird situation as I was considering buying a small apartment at the time (scrapped my plans even though I can finance most of it in cash). It gets exceedingly hard to acquire an apartment as a young single working person, even when funded by a mortgage. On the other hand, at some point, probably half of the apartments were bought 100% in cash, by people who don't intend to live there and the demand was insane too, a building next to mine was sold out already before the construction of the first floor was finished, there are some kind of discounts for early buyers.
And contrary to what other people say, it's not just Sofia or Plovdiv or Varna like that. It's everywhere. In Ruse for example, which is a town of \~130k, the last 2 years saw more construction activity than the previous 10 combined, they were/are building a whole complex of eight 11-story residential blocks close to my parents home for example. A huge number of new residential space all that while access to it (at least by poorer folks) gets harder and harder.
markohf12@reddit
A 55m2 at a good middle class neighborhood in Skopje would cost around 95,000 EUR, you can finance it with the avg. wage.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Avg wage of two people im guessing .
markohf12@reddit
Yes xactly, household income of two people, the downpayment of 15% minimum is what sucks.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
20% here for a 100k€ apt 60m2
TragicGloom@reddit
Impossible
venit_enim_ad_me@reddit
It is possible if you want to live in Vojnić, Karlovačka Županija
Sowkeres@reddit
In Bucharest, Romania’s capital city, it’s pretty hard to buy a flat if you are starting from the bottom.
All the home owners I know have either got their flats as a present from their parents or inherited.
With no help, you’d need to be paid over the average salary, never do financial mistakes and save aggresively. Even then, I think the situation is fragile because you’d be taking a 30 year loan which in my opinion is a huge gamble because the work market is not stable.
Sowkeres@reddit
Also, I’d have to give context.
The minimum wage in Romania is around 500€/month. The median is around 1200€ I think.
If you’re lucky and don’t have any expectations, you might get a tiny one room apartment for over 50k + 21% tax in a bad neighborhood. Keep in mind, that neighborhood is most often overcrowded, got shady neighbors and your apartment would be in an old building with a pretty high risk of falling the next time an earthquake strikes.
Want something decent, but not necessarily in the central area? Over 100k + 21% tax in an old building for maybe 2 rooms, but in a more decent shape. Over 150k + 21% tax in a new building.
Central area? Dump a bag of cash, then. The old one room flats that you can’t get a loan for (because have a very high chance of falling) are over 80-100k+ 21% tax. Want something new or at least acceptable? Dump over 250k + 21% tax.
Don’t forget, the base salary is 500€ and the median is 1200€. Soooo, you can do the math, but it seems out of reach for most. Either you inherit or hustle your way up. The average joe will die renting and living the rest of the month off with 200-300€ for groceries.
In my opinion, the best option right now is to buy land in one of the neighboring areas and slowly build a house. The only downside to this is the commute, but at least you’d have a small yard and maybe more peace.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
I get where your comming from
Wild_cmpt6406@reddit
It varies from location. And the size.
30m² studio apartmant for a solo man in a small town away from Belgrade, NS, Nis, can be relatively mid difficulty. Depending on family wealth, personal income, expenses, job, sitiation.
55m² one, one and a half bedroom apartmant in Belgrade can be like lifelong debt repaymant thing, even for a relatively high earning couple.
Think €200k credit line you have to repay with interest, like a 1000€ monthly just to service debt for 20 years. Thats in range from impossible to extreme difficulty for majority.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
5 years ago i had a friend that bought a big enough house in Nis for like 56000€ . I know prices have tripled now
NoSync22@reddit
I’m in Niš right now and I see lots of ads for new builds (direct from constructor) around 1500/sqm. That’s not bad compared to Belgrade or NS.
Brief-Star-9936@reddit
Slovenia: In the capital and near the sea, its alost imposible without a lot of help from the parents. Anywhere else its doable, but you might have to comute to work in high traffic.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Wth this is ridiculous. 5000€/m2
Brief-Star-9936@reddit
Yes, and it just keeps going up. 80% up form 2021.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Now im understanding why suicide rate is high in slovenia :/
New_Accident_4909@reddit
I went outside capital and bought an apartment in neighboring town for 70k. Now you can't buy anything remotely like that below 90k. The place is 59m² plus 4m² of balcony.
Two years have passed.... Had I waited more to buy an apartment in Belgrade I would be just priced out.
Don't let the flair confuse you this example Serbia.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
1000€/m2 is crazy cheap tho lucky you. A friend of mine bought a 100m2 for 60000€ 6 years ago now it costs 150000 same apt
New_Accident_4909@reddit
Yeah at some point during the sale process the owner made a remark that she was selling this way to cheaply.
Since it was made after the deal was signed i just replied it was here decision to do so hahha. She was on the hook 14k euros for penalty of breach of contract so i did not care xD.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Wow we dont have such a hook in Albania . Well enjoy living rent free. Thats a big step in financial freedome .
New_Accident_4909@reddit
I think its a process with notary, you pay "kapara" in my case i just paid entire down payment of 14k.
If I pull out of a deal i lose 14k, if seller pulls out they return the money and pay additional 14k.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
We have it only from the buyer side if he pulls out he loses the money but not for the owner .
No_Database_7462@reddit
it's quite fascinating in the worst possible sense that the rate of prices rising on real estate is way over any inflation dynamics, good that you didn't wait more
New_Accident_4909@reddit
My wife was about to give birth so I kinda locked in to get shit done hahha
fedexpres@reddit
Its impossible in Sofia even if you work on above-average for the city salary.
If both you and your wife/partner are working on an above-average salary - its still really hard, but if your family helps with the down payment(as its next to impossible to save 20% of the cost on a salary) - its maybe doable.
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Whats the price per m2 there?
alecpu@reddit
Around 3000 euro
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Similiar
fedexpres@reddit
According to an official broker website(take this statistic with a grain of salt) - 2500eur for an average or even below average part of the city. Good ones are around 2900-3100eur avg price and best part of the city around goes around 3100-4200euros. You might find around 2000eur / km2 in the worst parts of the city.
fedexpres@reddit
Keep in mind that renovation work(for old apartments) and/or buying furniture/kitchen/bathroom for new ones has become a lot more expensive in past few years. This increases the cost significantly...
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Yeah i know
alecpu@reddit
it used to be very possible until 2021 if you were in the IT sector and had some experience. Especially if you had a working partner is was actually easy.
fedexpres@reddit
A simple Google search shows that IT salary in Sofia in 2021 were between x3 and x6 the average(and median) salary in the city at this time, which means not a lot of people were living on that salary. Apartments prices were also quite different and the current reddit thread is asking about the current situation and not about 5+ yrs ago....
alecpu@reddit
I'm just sharing how things have changed
bangobangohehehe@reddit
Not true. For a 30\~55sqm apartment, you can generally afford one on a single salary, but of course not in very desirable locations and with a mortgage. A cursory glance shows me quite a few properties that will cost (significantly) under 500 euro per month on a 30-year mortgage.
seanugengar@reddit
I believefor a 30yo in Greece buying an apartment, at the moment, is not a realistic option.
Considering that in Thessaloniki the average price is 2300€/m², for a 50m² one would need 115.000€.( source ) The average salary for full employment is 1376€( source )
Not sure what mortgage can someone get with that income or what the interest rates are but with the current living costs, one can simply not afford to buy a house...
alecpu@reddit
There used to be a time before like 2021-2 where the IT sector paid disproportionately well compared to the living costs and then people bought some apartments for cheap . Now it's over for everyone and apartments are 3-4x the price. Unfortunately there is practically nothing going on outside the capital here, so you either become a slave for life or go back to your village to herd the goats
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Omg that sounds awful . Where ur from btw? Can’t you find some city nearby with good prices?
alecpu@reddit
Sofia. No not really, the only places here with some resemblance of live going on are the 3 big cities and they are all over expensive
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Maybe is time for a side hussle 🫠 forex scamming haha
Rundas77@reddit
Really hard, unless there is family support etc.
Also it has come to point where you start to think if you’re willing to pay a fortune for a tiny flats that won’t fit your needs in the future (small for families etc)
Responsible_Trick466@reddit (OP)
Maybe the kids will sleep in the living room lol