AMD Announces Socket AM5 Longevity till 2029
Posted by gurugabrielpradipaka@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 197 comments
Posted by gurugabrielpradipaka@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 197 comments
epraider@reddit
What does “socket longevity” mean here? Zen 6 and Zen 7? Or intentionally keeping it vague so they can decide later if they’re just going to release some Zen 6 refresh through 2029 and kick Zen 7 to AM6?
greggm2000@reddit
This is "Zen 7 will be on AM5, but we don't want to outright say so, bc it lets us change course if Intel or Nvidia hop on the DDR6 train earlier than expected"
bubblesort33@reddit
I think it would be a mistake if Intel jumps on the DDR6 train, and would probably be a benefit to AMD. I remember how the Ryzen 7000 series sold so poorly, AMD had many retailers pair those CPUs with free RAM. I got my 7700x from Microcenter with a free 32GB kit of RAM.
If Intel goes with DDR6, while AMD sticks with DDR5, people will likely stick to AMD. Especially since at that time there will be like 7 years worth of motherboards oy there being able to upgrade to Zen7. And if plenty of Zen7 CPUs get cost ieffective3D v-cache variants to make up for the memory bandwidth, people won't mind paying $80-100 more for a similar preforming CPU if it mean not needing to upgrade RAM and mobo.
The real reason I think they might be thinking of keeping Zen7 on AM5, is because they know DDR6 will be totally overpriced at launch because it'll all bought out by the server market for the first 2 years. I think they weren't thinking the RAM craze would be this insane, and them shifting DDR6 to Zen8 is because of this. AMD Zen7 EPYC CPUs getting DDR6 is likely, though.
greggm2000@reddit
Yep, I agree.
I also agree with this, it makes sense, and I heard this idea mentioned from a YTer that's hated in this subreddit, something like a year ago.
I don't think that's the reason. Based on when DDR6 will be available at the earliest (2027-2028), and given that there's usually a couple years lag between when a new gen of RAM is available in Enterprise and when it reaches consumer platforms, that 2030 timeframe would match up nicely for when we currently expect Zen 8 to come out. Then again, if the other rumors about Zen 7 coming out a year after Zen 6 are true, if you combine that with AMD's declared support of AM5 to 2029, we might even see Zen 8 on AM5! Still, that's far enough out that I doubt even AMD has locked down such details. We'll need to wait and see.
I'm not sure about that. It's possible, but AMD gets great economies of scale by reusing chiplets where they can. But..... LPDDR6 will be out before DDR6 DIMMs. It's not impossible that we'll see some future consumer platform from Intel or AMD use LPDDR6, especially if the AI bubble pops. I think it'll be very interesting to see how it all evolves between now and 2030.
bubblesort33@reddit
I don't think it should effect the chiplets being reused, because the core dies are of course still the same for a Zen7 on desktop using DDR5 vs Zen7 in server using DDR6. Just the memory controller needs to change. And currently the memory controller for Zen5 on desktop is already different than the memory controller Zen5 EPYC servers. So it be the same scenario as now.
Seanspeed@reddit
It seems more to me like a "AM5 will be like AM4" claim and nothing more. But AM4 support doesn't actually mean platform priority, as we've seen.
EmekaEgbukaPukaNacua@reddit
It’s probably “hey Intel if you agree to handicap your products to keep margins higher and divert all our ram to AI, we are not only game… we made an announcement so you can trust it a bit”.
Fritzkier@reddit
Yea, this is why most big companies have intentionally vague promise.
PastaPandaSimon@reddit
They said it's until 2029 "for new products and architectureS".
I'm pretty sure Zen 7 arrives before DDR6 is commonplace and affordable, and lessons learned it's reason enough to keep in on DDR5, and so AM5.
One thing AMD has always matched platform to is DDR generation, where they launched a new platform when a new memory generation was worth buying over the prior generation in terms of price and performance.
This announcement is more likely just aligning AM5 with memory market expectations, and capitalizing on the fact that it's coming late and may be too expensive initially for most users to want to buy a new platform with it.
ComplexIllustrious61@reddit
AMD is in that weird timeline where Zen 7 could be released on DDR6 or be kept on DDR5... but given the crazy memory prices and short term uncertainty, they will likely keep it on AM5. That's why they're extending support to 2029. First gen usually doesn't really excel in performance on new memory standards either. We saw that with first gen AM5 CPUs too. 4 CPU releases should be the norm on sockets.
PastaPandaSimon@reddit
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're at the design phase of Zen 7 when they had to make the decisions about the platform and memory. If they have to make that decision now, AM5 is the safest decision, and communicating that now is the right call so more people still on the fence can invest in the platform.
Going AM5 makes sense as it ensures they can actually sell chips because the market has already got the platform and the memory. Gambling that DDR6 comes out and is affordable is too big of a bet with how unprecedentedly bad the memory situation is at the moment.
EmekaEgbukaPukaNacua@reddit
Maybe.
Also just maybe they will release some kind of 10500x3d product in 2029.
Zeroth-unit@reddit
Instructions unclear, Ryzen 5 5450X3D for AM4 releases in 2029. /s
SailorMint@reddit
Don't forget the Quad-core Ryzen 3 5100X3D.
And then there's still room for the bottom of the bin dual core "Athlon X3D" series. The sand must flow.
Zeroth-unit@reddit
Why stop there? Single core X3D chips. Or bring back an even older design and make a tri-core X3D chip just for the heck of it.
kittymoo67@reddit
i kinda want to see that
ComplexEntertainer13@reddit
Does not mean the architecture is tied to it however. We already know that Zen 5 was first tested with the Zen 4 I/O die. They could feasibly have released a AM4 version had they wanted.
Considering they have now seen the staying power and sales of AM4 as a budget DDR4 platform. And how poorly Zen 5 sold before DDR5 prices came down. I wouldn't put it past them to release a bridge architecture that comes out on both platforms.
Noreng@reddit
Granite Ridge reuses the same IO-die as Raphael
ComplexIllustrious61@reddit
Internal testing is showing that if they move to DDR6 for Zen 7, the performance advantages are very minimal. That and the uncertain immediate future of dram prices is what's likely driving AMD to keep Zen 7 on AM5. It'll also let DDR6 stabilize more and be more reliable when next gen hits.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
We already know Zen 6 is going to be AM5. And it seems as if Zen 7 will allow for a mix of I/O chiplets allowing products which work with DDR5/AM5 and DDR6/AM6.
IANVS@reddit
We don't know, you see, we assume. AMD said nothing conclusive, they haven't issued any official statement saying "ok folks, Zen 6 will be on AM5", as far as I know. What AMD does is show (or leak) some vague slide like this one, MLID releases a video about it with nothing but speculations, internet just assumes it's going to be like that and takes the whole thing for granted. AMD then proceeds to elaborate nothing or, even worse, starts to drop more vague stuff, buy AM5 motherboards and CPUs guys, thank you. And people then do exactly that, based on guesswork and AMD's vagueness. That's AMD's modus operandi on consumer market for a while now and it's annoying and scummy.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
We know Zen 6 uses DDR5 and PCIE 5. It uses existing AM5 motherboards. This is all all known.
https://www.techpowerup.com/341821/support-for-amd-zen-6-confirmed-on-am5-motherboards-with-32-mb-and-64-mb-bios-chips
As far as Zen 7 goes we know AMD has a flexible approach to IO dies and they've announced support through 2029 which includes Zen 7 release so it's pretty clear what will happen here.
IANVS@reddit
That's Techspot showing some chinese listing that may or may not be what will come. Like I said, AMD themselves haven't confirmed shit.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
We do know this. AM5 motherboard makers are already talking about supporting Zen 6.
" The ASUS TUF X870-PRO WiFi7 W Neo motherboard boasts excellent build quality, which is its greatest strength. Its robust power delivery system, featuring 80A phases, is built to last and should easily handle next year’s powerful Zen 6 CPUs."
https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-gaming-x870-pro-wifi7-w-neo/
I have no idea why you are so resistant to this.
IANVS@reddit
FFS...you just translated a line from the conclusion of some french review. NOWHERE does Asus mention Zen 6 support anywhere on the product page.
Again, 3rd party guesswork and assumptions and again you just prove the thing I was talking about. Stop wasting everyone's time, please...
CatalyticDragon@reddit
I don't know why you're being so obtuse about such an obvious thing. Everyone knows Zen 6 is coming to AM5 because motherboard makers have been telling us this for months.
It's the whole reason motherboards have been updating products with 64MB+ ROM chips.
- https://www.club386.com/msi-motherboards-gear-up-for-amd-zen-6-cpus-with-64mb-bios-chips-and-built-in-network-drivers/
- https://www.club386.com/asus-appears-to-confirm-support-for-amd-zen-6-cpus-on-new-am5-motherboard/
- https://videocardz.com/newz/asrock-confirms-b850-motherboards-to-directly-support-future-zen-6-cpus
Why does this fact upset you so ?
Seanspeed@reddit
We dont know that.
And they also include support for AM4 up until 2026 in the graph, despite Zen 4 and AM5 coming out in 2022.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
Oh, so much confidence!
You must not be aware that desktop Zen and enterprise Zen chips use the same CCDs but with different I/O dies.
The client I/O die (cIOD) is very different to the server I/O die (sIOD) as they support very different memory and PCI-express sub-systems.
And parts like Strix Halo use an entirely different I/O die as well (although this time integrated).
Proving that AMD has, in fact, been doing just this for years. It's why AMD moved to a chiplet based architecture in the first place and Zen 6 and Zen 7 will do the exact same thing.
Seanspeed@reddit
I'm very aware they use different I/O dies for consumer and datacenter.
But we are talking about consumer here. They've never been 'flexible' with Ryzen I/O at all.
I'm not saying they cant or wont do what you're saying, I'm just saying that none of this is 'proof' or anything like you're going around proclaiming.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
We are talking about consumer parts here yes. And consumer parts today have different I/O chips to server parts of today. This is something they already do.
AMD has also released consumer parts with different I/O dies and that's how they differentiate desktop (Ryzen) CPUs from consumer workstation (Threadripper) CPUs.
You are correct that AMD has not yet released two versions of consumer desktop CPUs in the same segment but differentiated by different I/O dies for different platforms but that's not because of any law or internal rule. It's just because market conditions didn't call for it.
The memory landscape is very different now though as I'm sure you are aware. AMD is seeking a way to insulate consumers from the massive DDR6 AI tax which is coming. And when the hyperscalers all move to DDR6 there will be a glut of DDR5 capacity looking for a market.
Plus, Zen 7 based on a cutting edge node will be expensive and AMD will want as wide of a market as possible.
So this technically possible (already being done), it is logically sound given market conditions, we have leaks suggesting this is what will happen, and AMD has announced support for AM5 going past the release of Zen 7 which falls right in line with this.
It is abundantly clear what AMD is planning and unless market conditions change drastically that is what you will see.
secretOPstrat@reddit
AMD usually uses an IO die for 2 gens in a row, see zen 2 and zen 3, zen 4 and zen 5. Its likely zen 6 and zen 7 will have the same IO die for DDR5, seems unlikely they'd try to make a new IO die for a few products for 1 gen. Maybe their mobile products will support LPDDR6 with zen 7, which could also be re-used in desktops like mini pcs but no real indication on ddr6. Also sk hynix's roadmap? Only had DDR6 coming 2029, and based on the 2 year cycle zen 7 releases in 2028 so that doesn't really make sense to design for a ram type that doesn't exist.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
So all the more reason to assume Zen 7 will appear on AM5 then.
Seanspeed@reddit
It doesn't 'seem' that way, this is still pure speculation.
CatalyticDragon@reddit
Grimlock Ridge (Zen 7 desktop) will use the same 155 mm² I/O die as used in Zen 6 desktop processors. This announcement of 2029 platform support all but confirms this and their track record with AM4 should put to rest any doubt.
Seanspeed@reddit
And where have AMD said this?
Jeep-Eep@reddit
AMD's 3d caches would go with dual format support like caramel and salt.
IANVS@reddit
They're intentionally being vague and letting buzzers like MLID generate hype. It's been their marketing strategy for years now...
Just come out and say it - "this snd this will be on AM5, that will be on AM6 in year X"...it's so fucking annoying. And then they spit out few useless SKUs that no one will buy but hey, " AMD longevity!"
Seanspeed@reddit
Or just assume that Zen 6 is gonna be the last generation, and anything else is a bonus? Dont know why this would be an issue for anybody. :/ Especially if you're going to buy an Intel CPU where you know there will be no longevity.
secretOPstrat@reddit
But it could influence your purchasing decision now. Like you upgrade to zen 5 thinking you will have a zen 7 upgrade 5 years from now, which should be enough of an uplift. But if that's not the case your platform is effectively dead end if you aren't going to upgrade as soon as zen 6 there's no benefit in doing that vs buying an intel cpu which is better value upfront.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
Don't let the marketing roaches infest your brain. That should last 6-10 years.
greggm2000@reddit
AMD is not alone in it's sleaze, Intel and Nvidia do it too. All will (and have) messed with us and led us on. However, I hope you don't let emotion guide you when it comes to your next build. If you can wait until early next year, why not see how Zen 6 and Nova Lake performs in independent testing? The 270K+ is alright, but there's no upgrade path, and if Intel can't considerably improve over Arrow Lake with Nova Lake, AMD will be very happy.
RJsRX7@reddit
Arrow not having an upgrade path is pretty whatever, really. If they managed to make an LGA 1851 390K somehow, and say it offered 8+16+2 P/E/HPE or something, and it was 30% faster than the 270KP, would that be justified to buy?
By default, it would be 100% more expensive to buy than keeping your current, at the low end. At what point is that justifiable? Are we all really just chasing numeric ghosts where biggest wallet wins, or are we using our computers to do stuff and upgrading when we need to?
greggm2000@reddit
I think many people that went AMD in the last couple years might have gone Intel, had it had an upgrade path to Nova Lake and beyond. The reason Arrow Lake is so cheap is bc people aren’t buying, for the most part. Intel recognizes this, that’s at least part of why Intel intends for the upcoming LGA 1954 to support at least 3 (actual) generations. Now, whether or not that actually happens, we will need to wait and see.
Now, I’m not saying that upgradeability is a mandatory feature, but it sure is a “nice to have”, especially if you buy in at the beginning of a socket generation. People who bought Zen 4 will end up being pretty pleased, they’ll have a viable system into the early 2030s, what with being able to slap in a Zen 7 X3D CPU with as many as 32 cores (plus other goodies) if they want, when the time comes.
venfare64@reddit
I hope it didn't happen though.
greggm2000@reddit
Which part? If you mean that you hope that Nova Lake will be a lot better than Arrow Lake, I'm in total agreement.. and honestly, I do expect that, based on the rumors/leaks out there so far.
venfare64@reddit
Sorry for poor wording. I mean wish Nova Lake bring significant performance improvement from arrow lake like at least Zen 2 to Zen 3 IPC improvement.
nisaaru@reddit
Why should AMD messaging even be a concern if you consider to make a decision for a 270k for the next 2-3 years? Do you actually expect that they release an AM6 product soon with DDR6 far away you might miss if you get an AM5 motherboard now?
I truly don't get your point. You can buy an AM5 motherboard now which will run Zen5, Zen6 and very likely also Zen7.
Verite_Rendition@reddit
Aye, they're absolutely being intentionally vague.
This is an announcement that is meant to make big headlines, but doesn't actually have any meaningful information. AMD supporting a socket does not mean they will release new silicon for it, as evidenced by the fact that AM4 is still supported today despite not having new silicon in 5 years.
In effect, today's announcement changes nothing from a hardware development perspective. It only means that AMD is committing to continue selling existing chips using the socket through 2029, rather than 2027. Which is fine, but no one was expecting the current slate of Zen 5 parts to disappear after 2027 regardless.
f1rstx@reddit
It basically mean “we gonna release cut down ZEN5-6 CPUs until 2029. Like 5800x3d -> 5700x3d -> 5500x3d. I dunno how people making things up like “omg it means zen7 is also on am5” from those news
secretOPstrat@reddit
Initially in 2022 I think they said am5 would have support for "2025+", then they said "2027+" (confirming zen 6 will be on AM5), now its "2029+". I think that means Zen 7. Its not like they claimed AM4 will have future architectures supported until 2025, because of 5500x3d lol.
Toojara@reddit
Yep, late 26-early 27 for Zen 6, some months to X3D, then a couple lower end parts and then whatever for the last year. Not that getting a +100MHz XT bin of an existing part for significantly more money is really relevant support anyway.
Exist50@reddit
With Zen 6 on AM5, it would make sense for them to try to get one more generation out of the (reportedly) new IOD. So Zen 7 on AM6 seems pretty reasonable, though you'd hope for that to be more like '28 than '29.
naicha15@reddit
The same way how AM4 has socket longevity to 2026 on their little graphic. 5500X3D came out a few months ago, that counts as supporting the socket!
They'll trickle out a worthless SKU if needed to keep their promises.
dsoshahine@reddit
They just announced that the 5800X3D gets re-release. That also accounts for supporting the socket, I'd argue.
Seanspeed@reddit
Yea, that's the biggest clue here. It will be 'supported', but it does not mean it's going to be their sole platform.
RageMuffin69@reddit
Is the 5500x3d worthless? I upgraded from a 3600 because I’m not switching to a ddr5 system anytime soon apparently.
f1rstx@reddit
It’s not worthless, however calling it as item that continues platform support is weird since every “new” CPU is from 2022
schmerg-uk@reddit
Still rocking my 3700X on AM4 and given I upgraded it to 64Gb of RAM back when memory prices were low (£42 GBP, call it $50 USD for 32Gb in 2024), I see myself skipping AM5 altogether (working desktop not gaming, been continuously rolling this build forward both hardware and the gentoo install since ~2002)
jaypizzl@reddit
Yeah, 5500x3D is what owners wanted. That’s not worthless.
dsoshahine@reddit
According to a quote on ComputerBase:
got-trunks@reddit
looking at the pace of things and from their planning before it seems to me like one more before DDR6 I guess but haven't heard anything past that
imaginary_num6er@reddit
DDR4 = AM4
DDR5 = AM5
DDR6 = AM6
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
AM3 was also DDR3
Terrh@reddit
and AM2 was DDR2
i_max2k2@reddit
Damm AMD getting the DDR sequence right!
railagent69@reddit
Unlike their laptop cpu names 🤣
wpm@reddit
Well, you just need to hop on one foot under a full moon for 10 minutes and consult the smoke signals to find that the Ryzen AI ZZRJNBXZ0982887359812367598772AI9vXZ909PeepeepoopooAi-3 AI is a Zen 5 chip because clearly there is a five in there in the right spot, see:
Ryzen AI ZZRJNBXZ0982887359812367598772AI9vXZ909PeepeepoopooAi-3 A
I don't know what the big deal is.
noiserr@reddit
That's exactly the difference which explains the schizophrenic model names when it comes to OEMs.
OEMs are putting pressure on AMD to name them that way, so that they can sell old stock to unsuspecting customers.
windowpuncher@reddit
Or literally any other name honestly
Calm-Zombie2678@reddit
Cant order new ram sticks for half of them anyway lol
Noreng@reddit
Just ignore AM1
Possible-Put8922@reddit
Time to change it!
CataclysmZA@reddit
And FM1 was a mistake.
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
We don't talk about FM1.
alelo@reddit
people forgetting AM3+ existed :( (but also DDR3)
MWink64@reddit
AM2+ says hi.
Keulapaska@reddit
Amd naming scheme that makes some sense and is semi-original?
Nooo that can't be, surely they'll find a way to mess it up and copy some other one and add +1 to that.
asssuber@reddit
One thing AMD has been superior to Intel since before the Zen architecture was the socket naming. Nice and simple. Meanwhile, it's near impossible to remember the number of pins in intel's sockets.
PigSlam@reddit
I wonder how many times the words "bridge" and then "lake" have been written due to Intel naming schemes.
Seanspeed@reddit
They dug some Wells in there too, dont forget.
splendiferous-finch_@reddit
Am6+1 AI+xtxtxtx
Select_Truck3257@reddit
Yep, but that's not true
SeantheWilson@reddit
I’m PRAYING that AMD tries to push CAMM instead of DIMM for next generation.
capacity04@reddit
Zen 6 is supposed to be early 2027, and the cadence is usually about every two years, so 2028 for Zen 7
Sev3nThreeO7@reddit
Yeah but with the RAM production lines focused on AI production
Its probably not going to follow the same cadence
kittymoo67@reddit
i wouldnt be surprised if they dont know that yet and are waiting on to see what other hardware prices for the mto do
Sh1rvallah@reddit
Doesn't even mean much if zen 6 is on am5 but not compatible with existing chipsets
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
Has AMD ever done that previously? Why reuse the same socket and make the chipsets incompatible?
Seanspeed@reddit
They have, but there's some solid reasoning to think they specifically avoided this situation by having more beefed up AM5 chipsets from the start, to make future Ryzen support easier to do.
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
That backwards compatibility is the biggest thing boosting AM5 CPU sales right now, compared with Intel who are about to switch to yet another new socket. It would be the biggest own goal of the decade for AMD to break backwards compatibility in this economy. If Zen 6 is good, AMD have a huge number of users they can market to just by pointing out "you only need to buy the CPU" while Intel has the uphill battle of trying to convince consumers to drop hundreds if not a thousand plus dollars on a new CPU, RAM and motherboard. AMD would be burning their biggest advantage so someone else can sell motherboards.
based_mafty@reddit
Zen 3 wasn't supposed to be compatible with existing AM4 motherboard. It's not untill big backlash that amd backtracked it and allow older chipset to use Zen 3 cpu.
Aw3som3Guy@reddit
On the Intel side of the fence, per sketchy custom foreign BIOSes, Intel 6th through 9th gen, so Skylake through Coffee Lake, were all on the same 1151 socket separated mostly* by chipset in the conventional 2 gens to a socket Intel standard.
Asterisk: I assume they did actually change pinouts and whatnot, and that some things probably don’t work properly across the two halves. I just know that allegedly you can boot a 9th gen CPU in a 6th gen motherboard.
NoAirBanding@reddit
It means another four years of Promontory 21
Verite_Rendition@reddit
Which ironically wouldn't be so bad if the CPU socket was changing. P21 is a decent enough southbridge, with plenty of USB 3.x lanes and PCIe 4.0 switching.
But without a socket switch and so long as they continue to use P21, AMD won't be able to add native USB4 support to their platform. Since they can't put it in the CPU's IOD, so it would need to go in the chipset.
The alternative is going another generation without native USB4 support in the desktop. And in 2027 that's going to be kind of silly. Especially when both Intel and Apple are offering full-on Thunderbolt 4 support.
capybooya@reddit
I had hoped for some updated features and possible a couple more lanes, but I guess not. Consumer is an afterthought for AMD after all.
dorting@reddit
It means whatever they do is coming for AM5 until 2029
Seanspeed@reddit
No, it just means it'll have some kind of support.
The graph literally shows AM4 support lasting through 2026, though they haven't actually produced any newly designed chips for it since 2021, and have produced two new architectures since that aren't on AM4.
dorting@reddit
I really doubt nothing is coming until 2029, a rather pessimistic vision of yours, a rather pessimistic vision of yours, considering that the 9000 series came out in 2024, it would mean 5 years without anything, despite the support, it simply does not make sense
kingwhocares@reddit
Is there even a need for a new socket as DDR6 is just around the corner? A new socket won't last more than 2 years.
Seanspeed@reddit
A new socket would specifically be for DDR6, yes. Zen 6 comes maybe early next year, then two years later, in 2029, AM6 on DDR6, and a Zen 7 release would make perfect sense.
Not guaranteeing that's what's going to happen, but so far that seems to line up.
sdflkjeroi342@reddit
Without context I would have said it's just a nicer way of saying end-of-life... but compared to the competition I guess longevity is the correct term :D
DehydratedButTired@reddit
“We are going on push out our cpus for years because gaming doesn’t matter, so it’s gonna live longer. L
siazdghw@reddit
It's 100% going to be an AM4 situation again where AMD just drags it along by releasing rejected bin CPUs of CPUs that arent competitive anymore. They will get the internet to clap for them but it will be mostly pointless.
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
Looks like zen 6 refresh, just like AM4 longevity includiles 5700C3D type releases and the re-release of 5800X3D
Ambifacient@reddit
If it's anything like AM4 then they will just release variants/binned silicon and market as new to "extend" the socket life.
railagent69@reddit
Zen 4 dropped in 2022, Zen 5 in 2024 so that could mean at least a Zen 6 and maybe its refresh if they find they need a new socket with DDR6 for Zen 7. Late 2028-29 was also the (rumored & delayed) PS6 launch window because of memory prices / supply shortage.
SilverWerewolf1024@reddit
Lets hope Zen7 also comes to am5, if not this is pretty bad compared to am4...
0 upgradeability from my 9800x3d... its the same as with intel then....
Seanspeed@reddit
Zen 6 is confirmed for AM5 already. :/
SilverWerewolf1024@reddit
Sooo, whats the upgradeability there? like 15% at most maybe for gaming?
Zen 7 another 15% maybe? so 30? nah
nukacolaguy@reddit
Intel - best I can do is one generation
elkond@reddit
u say that literally as nova socket is going to be 3+ cpu gens
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
What happened to "let's see about that, they've promised that before and not delivered"?
elkond@reddit
intel had multigen sockets...
dustarma@reddit
...so, two generations and a refresh, with both Raptor Lake series infamously burning themselves to death to the point that on this day anyone on a 12600(k)12700(k)/12900(k) would be insane to risk upgrading.
Exist50@reddit
The one leak we have is 3 gens, not 4.
SailorMint@reddit
It wasn't planned to be 3 gens.
And it'll mostly be remembered by how poorly it went.
Stingray88@reddit
Not that it’s much better, but Intel has historically been 2 generations per socket, not one.
gl_tt@reddit
1156: One generation of Lynnfield - got absolutely smoked into irrelevance by Sandy Bridge
1155: Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge - very small IPC increase, lower TDP, HD 3000 > HD 4000 iGPU
1150: "Devil's Canyon" incremental chips were released later on, which were the same as Haswell but with boosted clocks and better TIM. Broadwell technically did also release on 1150, but only 2 SKUs that were rare oddities with their Iris Pro iGPU/eDRAM and no one bought them. Plus they weren't even compatible with first gen 1150 boards anyway (i.e. Z87, B85, etc.)
1151: Skylake to Kaby Lake - lmao who cares
1151 (this time it's personnel): Intel themselves consider 9000 series to still be "Coffee Lake". Bit of a weird one as the 9700K changed kinda laterally to 8C8T compared to the 6C12T of the 8700K. The 9900K is full fat 8C16T and 8000 series had nothing like that, so that's something
1200: *tumbleweed*
1700: Intel followed up the compelling but power hungry 12000 series with 2 catastrophically brand damaging generations of self-frying silicone. Great job!
1851:
Now for AMD, Ryzen 2000 was something of a nothingburger, but 3000 saw much appreciated gains and 5000 series was pretty monumental. Then they followed that up with X3D SKUs that undisputedly handed them the gaming crown. That's all on one socket, and all compatible with first generation chipsets (luckily they were shamed into not backing out on supporting them for 5000 series).
The upgrade path hasn't been so hot for AM5 though after 3 years now. 9000 series was irrelevant except for the X3D SKUs, and even then, the I/O die was still not improved and no shift in core counts. Not that compelling of an upgrade for someone already on a 7xxxX3D despite the notable IPC uplift.
SailorMint@reddit
Zen+ fixed a lot of the teething issues involving RAM compatibility that plagued Zen1 and gave us the extremely appreciated 200$CAD R5 2600!
gl_tt@reddit
True, but the lifecycle of AM4 was so good that a more simple refinement doesn’t stand out as much in comparison to the 3000 and 5000 series.
VaultBoy636@reddit
Conveniently leaving out LGA775 which served for ages. You can also get ES laptop chips to work on even B150 boards and overclock them (ymmv with VRMs). Coffeetime is also a thing. Used Z170+9980HK is probably one of the best low budget builds if you're not scared of flashing a modded bios. Yes it's anticonsumer but it's possible. It's like whining about integrated gigabit ethernet when you can upgrade any motherboard to 25GBE for ~30€
yea but there's also clear power and amp limits defined by them that were conveniently ignored by board manufacturers. puget systems had less failures on 1700 than on AMD systems because they use sane power and current limits. X3D chips also love blowing up but "intel bad amd gud" so this time we blame the board manufacturers. Arguably the intel profiles are a disaster because the average 13900k throttles down to 5Ghz with them in games. I just uncapped amps and set a flat 240w pl1=pl2 and can max out my 5.8Ghz tvb oc on almost any game
gl_tt@reddit
That’s not conveniently leaving anything out, you’re off your rocker if you think the longevity of the physical socket itself actually means anything in and of itself. 775 started out housing Prescott Pentiums and ended up with Core 2 Quads - but you’re living in fantasy land if you think you were able to upgrade from a P4 system you bought in 2004 to a 2008 C2D or C2Q. Plus this was still the era of third parties making their own chipsets, so compatibility was even more of a Wild West.
It would be like saying 1151 lasted a long time because it started out in 2015 with 6000 series Skylake and ended with 9000 series Coffee Lake in 2018 - you couldn’t put an i7 8700K Or 9700K into a Z170 so it’s not relevant. 775 was also so long ago that it’s not really relevant to modern Intel platforms regardless.
burtmacklin15@reddit
After the bug in Windows was patched, the uplift from AMD 7xxx to 9xxx was actually quite significant.
Nobody covered that in mass media though because it was outside the launch window, and "this launch sucks" got more clicks.
Seanspeed@reddit
No it wasn't. Why are people upvoting this?
Zen 4 CPU's gained just as much performance as Zen 5 CPU's. The performance difference between the two stayed exactly the same. HUB even did a dedicated video demonstrating this.
TwoCylToilet@reddit
Lmfao Comet Lake to Rocket Lake evolved backwards.
Jofzar_@reddit
I would say historically they have been 1 generation per socket, recently they have been 2 generation per socket.
AndreaCicca@reddit
For example 6th and 7th gen were on the same socket
SagittaryX@reddit
To be pedantic 8th and 9th gen were also the same socket, Intel just artificially limited compatibility to sell more motherboards. They could have had a 4 generation socket.
Stingray88@reddit
Well at least in recent history, the last 15 or so years.
Numerlor@reddit
At least they won't be stuck with this shitass IO
Flynn58@reddit
I don't imagine I'll be replacing my 9800X3D before AM6 but if they somehow release an AM5 CPU two gens from now that sips half the power and does double the performance I won't be mad about this lol
Sandblut@reddit
I hope the stars align in 2030 for me to skip am5 completely and jump to 15800X3D (or whatever the name is gonna be) on AM6 with DDR6, gotta squeeze the most out of this 5800X3D and rx9070xt
Framed-Photo@reddit
At this point I'm gonna have my 5700X3D til DDR6 comes out, where I'll have the great opportunity to spend $500 for 16gb.
plantsandramen@reddit
Same with 5800x3d, unless there's a great microcenter deal on a 9800x3d/mobo/ram combo in the next two years. Like something do good I can't pass up, not something "good for the current market" because the current market is dumb.
bean-burrito-supreme@reddit
I kick myself from missing out on the microcenter 7800x3d ASUS tuf mobo and 32gb ram combo deal for $350 when they used to have it
plantsandramen@reddit
Damn, that would have been nice to get in on.
HulksInvinciblePants@reddit
If I could go back in time I wish I could have snagged a discount 7XX0X3D, just before the 9 series drop. I would have been able to keep my mobo forever.
Bibab0b@reddit
At this point I will stay on am4 until lga 2066 or sp3 became cheap
DannyzPlay@reddit
lmao they're doing the same shit they did with zen 3 and X570. Socket longevity doesn't mean that motherboard manufacturers will be incentivized to support older chipsets. and considering consumer motherboard sales are down, they might just use this a means to sell more boards.
ElvisDumbledore@reddit
I'm surprised motherboard sales overall are down. It seems like people would just be buying older tech. So instead of building that new DDR5 server/workstation they would add another DDR4 system instead. Or instead of adding a new DDR4 they would add a new DDR3 system instead.
For example: I'm dusting off old hardware right now. I have a mobo/cpu/DDR3 combo. The motherboard can't do vitualization but the CPU can so I'm considering buying a compatible mobo that can.
Sev3nThreeO7@reddit
Im fully expecting as soon as Zen 6 and DDR6 memory is made available that Morherboard manufacturers will completely halt DDR4 production
And for people who can't afford to upgrade, We're going to see a huge problem emerge
detectiveDollar@reddit
With RAM being dumb expensive, motherboard makers pulling something like thay would be suicide.
whalesareverycool@reddit
Yeah, the market must be terrible for self built at the moment. This is an aid, if anything.
Cheerful_Champion@reddit
I fell like last 8 years of PC hardware were defined by "If [this group] pulls something like this it would be a suicide", followed by them doing exactly that and doing fine.
Seanspeed@reddit
Probably, but suits going, "Why shouldn't we get some of that pie?" can still win arguments against better sense.
I'm expecting pretty fluid support for Zen 6 on existing boards.
your_mind_aches@reddit
People can't buy motherboards if they don't have RAM.
jedrider@reddit
Considering DDR5 prices, I just put together two AM4 machines.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit
2027 will be another mostly-aligned CPU cycle per the current rumors: Intel Nova Lake vs AMD Zen6 vs Apple M6 should all release within a few months of each other.
capacity04@reddit
Zen 6 was originally going to be early 2026, but got pushed to early 2027, which is a bit beyond their usual 2 year cadence. MLID was suggesting (at least I think it was him) that Zen 7 would follow quickly after Zen 6 relatively similar to the under-two-years cadance of Zen 4 to Zen 5.
This would make sense considering Zen 5 to Zen 6 is projected to be well past two years. Not that it's a fixed rule but it's the general cadance
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
AMD is always rumored to launch 12 months or less after the last and it never happens
Kryohi@reddit
Zen 5 was launched in August 2024. What do you mean "12 months"? In a normal market zen 6 would be launched within 3-4 months.
SagittaryX@reddit
I mean not 12 months or less, but Zen2 to Zen3 was only 1.25 years.
Seanspeed@reddit
The point is that the rumor mills from shysters like MLID always say AMD is gonna release the next generation in way shorter time frame than they actually do.
Seanspeed@reddit
MLID doesn't know shit.
Geddagod@reddit
Qualcomm snapdragon x2 elite vs NVL-H and Zen 6 mobile in terms of ST power is going to be really interesting to see, now that x86 doesn't have the excuse that they are a node behind (or are much more performant, which hasn't been the case for a few years now).
Tech_Philosophy@reddit
I'm feeling really good about building a PC when the 7800x3d came out. Looking forward to dropping whatever the last single CCD x3d AM5 chip is into the machine later.
AdeptFelix@reddit
Makes sense to maintain AM5 for now. It's a shit time to release new PC hardware, adoption of any big jump will be abysmal until (if?) the market returns to normal.
SmashStrider@reddit
While Zen 6 will almost certainly be on AM5, would Zen 7 be? I wonder if they've not mentioned it on the slide for that reason, kind of the same thing they did with saying AM4 has had 10 year socket longevity despite the last proper new architecture being released on AM4 being in 2022 with Zen 3 X3D.
RealThanny@reddit
Nobody knows yet, including everyone at AMD. The memory situation is too messed up.
Once Zen 7 is closer to tapeout, they can look at the memory market and see if it makes more sense to stick to DDR5, do a mix of DDR5 and DDR6 (which could be AM5 and AM6, or just AM5 with DDR6 only on server), or go all DDR6.
My guess is that Zen 7 on AM5 is more likely than not.
SmashStrider@reddit
Would be very impressive if they could fit Zen 7 on AM5, especially with the rumored massive core counts.
wintrmt3@reddit
Core counts have absolutely nothing to do with the socket, it's about the memory interface.
PorscheFredAZ@reddit
NOTHING NEW THEN..............no serious platform changes without a socket change.
Flynny123@reddit
Seems to indicate Zen7 on AM5
Pete258@reddit
The wording is doing a lot of work here.
Socket support through 2029 sounds great, but it doesn't answer the question everyone actually has: which CPU generations make it to AM5? If AMD was confident about Zen 7 on AM5, I'd expect them to say it outright. The vagueness stands out more than the date.
DCS30@reddit
doesn't mean shit if RAM prices don't drop.
Dull_Reply5229@reddit
Dangerous game. Intel could kick them pretty hard in the teeth if they get a strong start on ddr6 if it's ready sooner
bestanonever@reddit
Interesting that AMD is not labelling the upcoming Zen 6 and Zen 7 CPUs on AM5.
It makes sense to get 3 more years, since Zen 6 is not even out yet and it would need BIOS updates and the like. But the timing would be a touch short for Zen 7 arriving two years after. It's like they are leaving the door open but, most likely, Zen 6 is the final CPU gen on AM5, probably with multiple releases (non-X variants, for instance) late in life, like with AM4.
Seanspeed@reddit
It actually lines up perfectly if we assume Zen 6 for consumer platform(aka AM5) wont come til early 2027. Two years past that, it will literally be 2029.
SagittaryX@reddit
Why would it be short? All indications are Zen6 in 2027, then Zen7 would be 2029. Though rumours are saying AMD is prepared to quicken the release schedule if Intel becomes competitive enough with their next couple gens.
Fr0HiKE@reddit
probably depends on whether ddr6 support is required to compete with intel
bestanonever@reddit
Yeah, they are probably evaluating what to do, at this point in time. If Zen 7 is a quick release, some 15 to 18 months after Zen 6, and Zen 6 comes out early next year, that would still give them time to release it on AM5, if DDR6 is an expensive pipe dream for consumers by then.
Maybe a hybrid arch like Intel did with their 12th Gen?
oscardssmith@reddit
I feel like AMD wouldn't go hybrid, but could theoretically do something where they do Zen 7 cores with Zen 6 IO die on AM5 and Zen 7 with a ddr6 IO die on AM6
asssuber@reddit
I thought they would do that with Zen4 for AM4, but for some (supposedly good) reason they didn't. So I'm skeptical they would do that for Zen7...
admalledd@reddit
Basically similar reasons they are unlikely to ever do so: chiplet wafer supply constraints are too high. Back in Zen4 when that generation's IO die was being made there were early considerations on DDR4/DDR5 compat by designing different dies. Those plans/ideas quickly pointed out the costs required and the lower margins likely to return, and that they'd still be constrained (at least at launch, the most important timing) by core chiplet counts. So why spend money/effort on a down-rev part that would basically have to be priced lower but still cost just as much to make? Further, since then the demand for Epyc CPUs has only gotten larger and while those aren't always the same core dies anymore those are still the same wafers of throughput that they can buy from TSMC.
bestanonever@reddit
We will see. I'd personally love to see Zen 7 on AM5, if the performance jump is right.
It would be just like AM4, with plenty of upgrade choices for earlier gens.
blackbalt89@reddit
That doesn't seem long enough considering AM4
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
It's "at least until 2029".
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
Can't wait to read how this sub is going to spin this into something negative, like it always does with AMD.
skinlo@reddit
Pity my AM5 motherboard only supports the 7000 series...
InfiniteFeeCars@reddit
How? Can’t you just update the BIOS to the latest version for 9000 series support?
skinlo@reddit
There isn't a BIOS update that supports the 9000 series...
TwoCylToilet@reddit
F36 Update AMD AGESA 1.2.0.3e PatchA for new CPU support
This AGESA is available for every revision of the board.
Check the Rev 1.5 supported CPU page for the same board, you should see Granite Ridge and Phoenix support.
If firmware with AGESA that supports the new CPU exists for your board, it will work with that CPU.
PastaPandaSimon@reddit
People here said Gigabyte just forgot to update the page for the older revisions of that mobo but 9000 series CPUs work just fine and they DID get a microcode update with Zen 5 support, including X3D:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/s/eajZuPOnQW
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/QTD3jUxbDV
skinlo@reddit
Oh ok, thanks for this! Seems they might have forgotten to update their site then? It would be good to get official confirmation
Kayant12@reddit
This is 100% them forgetting to update the pages. As long as new bios are being released and the noticed AMD AGESA version matches what can be seen on other boards of the same chipset generation then things should be good. As ultimately the AGESA is what determines the CPU it supports.
i.e we look at the x variant it has the same AGESA version
Stingray88@reddit
Googling around says otherwise. I found lots of posts from users saying the 9800X3D works fine on this board. Even the earlier revisions.
InflammableAccount@reddit
That is 100% on Gigabyte.
skinlo@reddit
I agree, not blaming AMD, and I'll never buy Gigabyte again. It just didn't occur to me that any company would release a 1 generation motherboard in 2024.
ZTZ-Nine-Nine@reddit
I mean on their own slide they show AM4 is "supported" until 2026 which isn't true per se considering truly new stuff hasn't been released on AM4 for 3 years so....
They can well release AM6 next year and release a refresh of some kind of AM5 and call it support.
notmyaccountbruh@reddit
Well, I just announced AM4 longevity until 2032.
HobartTasmania@reddit
One thing people advocate against buying Intel is the constant socket changes, but this isn't a problem for me as I just buy the matching '900K CPU to go with it, or at least the '700K one, the end result being you can't upgrade the CPU anyway as you have either the fastest or second fastest and there's no substantial upgrade possible anyway.
With regards to a new generation of CPU's being released and reusing the old motherboard then you have the situation of being one or two versions behind in things like PCI-e lanes and M.2 slots, USB port capabilities and slower RAM speeds e.g. My Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master X Socket 1700 supports a maximum RAM speed of 8266 whereas the Socket 1851 bumps this up to 9500.
If you're a gamer then you're more interested in video card upgrades and not so much the CPU, the CPU+MB I just simply replace both at the same time.
rickybluff@reddit
funny how people here are complaining, bruh your other alternaive is Intel.
LuluButterFive@reddit
Cant wait for the 9500x3d to be released in 2029
AreYouAWiiizard@reddit
This is honestly kind of meaningless, was anyone even doubting they'd release new CPUs on AM5 til then after what we got with AM4? The issue is this doesn't mean Zen7 support (hell they don't even list Zen6 here...) and by not showing it and making this announcement it only gives me certainty that Zen7 is a new motherboard.
ChocolateSpecific263@reddit
oh no i wanted to buy every x years new stuff for XX% performance increase
XtremeCSGO@reddit
It was leaked that zen 7 was going to be on AM5 like a year ago. This is just me think that it’s even more true
RJsRX7@reddit
Groundhog saw his shadow, 3 more years of running out of PCIe