Eli and Eve
Posted by Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 47 comments
Hello! I was telling my friend, who hasn't watched Xena, all about the main plot points and I eventually got to the storyline of Callisto, which of course brought up the angels, Eli, and Eve. I was always under the impression that Eli was supposed to represent Jesus. But she pointed out that Eve should have been representing Jesus due to the obvious (immaculate conception) and due to the fact that she "disappeared" for a while then starts following Eli's teachings. I was raised religious and we weren't really allowed to watch Xena once it got to this point lol Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit
I find it curious that a lot of people are vehemently denying that Eli is Jesus. Like yeah, he is named Eli and he is in India, so /technically/ he is a different person, but the allusions - down to his looks - are quite clear. I call him White Indian Jesus when introducing people to the show for a reason 🤣
The only time the show directly references the Bible is in s2 with the David and Goliath storyline, afaik- probably because this part of the bible is just so widely known and it was not that controversial. In other times when they want to comment on Monotheism and Christianity in particular they change names and all that - think back to S1 Altared states with Iqos or whatever his name was, which was clearly supposed to be Abraham and Isaac. Probably because they were afraid of controversy in the US (rightly so, I can only imagine the outrage), and to have a bit more creative freedom to work these characters into the Xena world
So in that sense, I do think we can treat Eli as stand in for Jesus sometimes. It clearly reads that way to me, a completely non religious person 🤷♀️ just because there were other religions mixed in and the storyline didnt perfectly match up the Bible doesnt change the fact that there was clear intent for the viewers to pick up on the Jesus connection. It’s just YAXI Jesus!
The Eve reading, I will admit, went over my head . Although I think there is something to it! but it’s buried a bit deeper for the casual non religious viewer
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
I really love seeing everyone's viewpoints on this! I was raised very religious, I'm not part of that religion anymore, and in my household Xena was "fine" until Eli showed up, and the lesbian alludment got heavy of course lol 😆 It was a difficult landscape to navigate, we were allowed to read Harry Potter, lotr, even Flowers in the Attic, but Xena was always tough territory. I think it was OK with David and Goliath, Easter eggs of Christianity. The Eli character was both too far away and too similar to Jesus, it walked the line of blasphemy lol I'm going to have to bring all these points up to my still religious parents and see if they've changed their minds about Xena at all, everyone's perspectives have been very helpful 😀
Efficient-Coffee-502@reddit
your friend actually makes a solid point because the immaculate conception and the resurrection parallel maps way more cleanly onto Eve than Eli when you think about it
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
That's what I was thinking! I'm glad I posted about it, because someone else brought up that Eve fits St. Paul's journey very well, I'm fairly new to Reddit, and everyone's input has been so enlightening!
islandgirl39@reddit
Eli is supposed be Jesus, Eve St.Paul imo
awesome118@reddit
I dont think any of them is Jesus. If you know about the christian religions is that they stole a lot of stories from other older religions and myths. So its easy to search for inspiration in old mitologys and for a christian person to assume it most be about Jesus.
Sorry if you didn't had the knowledge before of the bible not being a completely original story.
Agent8699@reddit
My thoughts are that I wish they’d stuck to Greek mythology! 😅
Shadoecat150@reddit
I started checking out by India
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
Yeeeaaaahhhh, I love Xena! But, like, if im gunna throw on an episode it's usually the earlier seasons. The Greek can't be beat! 😅 I just find the Eli/Eve parts intriguing. There's a lot to unpack 😅
Agent8699@reddit
I find it intriguing that Eli, Xena and Eve are all manipulated by the so called God of Love / Light into slaughtering the Greek gods so the GOL can reign supreme as the only god.
But, no one mentions Dahak and his own plan to … checks notes … impregnate a woman without her consent to give birth to a child that will usher in the end of the Olympians 🤔
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
🤣 wait hold on that's a good point that brings up another issue.. Gabriel was also impregnated against her will, had an evil baby (Eve was a monster before redemption) whom she LOVED, but they HAD to get rid of Hope. Why did Xena get to keep her weird God baby and Gabriel couldn't? 😅 Eve did way more damage!
Agent8699@reddit
Livia slaughtered thousands, drank the blood of her enemies, ruthlessly murdered rebellious Amazons by throwing them overboard in chains, etc. That’s all okay!
Hope killing … two people … is a big no, no from Xena!
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
Totally need a Hope redemption arc, she could have been taught the side of good just like Xena! New hill to die on!
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
Id always saw Eli as a Hindu version of John the Hindu Indian version Baptist and Eve the female version of Jesus for obvious reasons but Xena was no virgin Mary for also obvious reasons haha 😂😆
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
Next you'll be telling us they aren't virgins!
Gabrielle: I was married at the time!
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
Engaged actually Xena was engaged at the time
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
Technically Borias was married at the time ... just - not to Xena ... 🥲
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
I was talking about the other guy she was with before borias
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
Yeah, they really leaned into Hinduism and spirituality in the 90s, not just in Xena lol I actually really liked that they did that, they implied that Jesus traveled in the years he wasn't seen in the Bible, finding peaceful teachings and bringing them back with him. It's a nice little "what if?".
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
Did you know that the Hindus have over 330 million pagan Hindu pagan Gods
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
Million!? That's so cool!!
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
Yeah I know they have more pagan Gods than any other ancient civilizations or cultures
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
Yeah exactly
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
Eli is analogous to Jesus, in his role as a founder of a pacifist cult who is martyred, & his movement is strengthened as a result. But he’s not actually Jesus (& the timeline is very different, too). Eve is analogous to St. Paul, the violent Roman who persecutes the Christians, then is converted to their cause when he sees Christ in a blinding ray of light. Eve & Eli never met in life, & neither did Christ & Paul. The Elijians play a similar role as Christians, but there’s significant differences as well.
They didn’t portray Christianity on the show partly to avoid offending people but partly because it wouldn’t really be relevant to Xena’s story, so they came up with a similar idea that’s a better fit with Xena’s concerns.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
Love this! St. Paul fits for Eve, I never I thought of that! Granted, I had to do a quick Wikipedia search to refresh my memory lol
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
When Paul preached to the Greeks (according to the Book of Acts), they called him the Messenger, because they believed he was sent from Hermes, god of messengers!
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
That's cool! I love hearing about all the different religions colliding and mingling (even if it was through a lot of violence) maybe that's what makes Xena special for so many people. Every God does exist, I don't remember anyone outright denying a gods existence, just that they don't like them lol
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
Yes, & Rob said that was one of his favorite themes of the show, his they all influence each other!
BlueSonic85@reddit
I agree with this though to note although Paul was a Roman citizen (which he played to his advantage) that didn't really have anything to do with why he persecuted Christians. That was because he was a Pharisee who considered the Jesus movement a dangerous subversion of Judaism.
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
That’s right, there’s significant differences, especially from a religious pov. I’m just pointing out where they coincide.
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
Neither of them is Jesus imo. The show didn't want to get accused of being sacrilegious to that religion (although other ones are okay apparently). Eli was a way to sidestep that while telling a familiar story.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
I think the way they did was way more sacrilegious than if they went by the book 😅 Xena getting crucified and risen instead of Eli confused me, I was like it's supposed to be that guy what's going on 🤣 And yeah, the fear around offending Christianity is real lol
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
In this case, Xena is more like Lazarus being raised by the dead. Spartacus was also crucified, like a lot of people around that time.
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
to be fair since Xena bent Ulysses' bow for him and slayed the monster for Beowulf it seems only fair that she'd also nudge Jesus out of the way and do the whole Easter story herself too 😂 It's surprisingly even handed of the writers, from a certain point of view!
TypesAndPatterns@reddit
She is the defender of the Messenger, after all! 😇
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
Right by the time you're arguing Xena, Gabrielle, Eli and Eve are all Jesus I think we have to acknowledge that none of them are Jesus, the writers just borrowed some plots
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
OK, yeah, I like that explanation. They were much more vague that whole storyline, with the other gods or characters like Pandora or Midas they were like "you know who this is, here's our twist".
drvondoctor@reddit
Jesus was one of many people like him who went around preaching n' whatnot. He had his followers, but others had their followers too, and im sure some of them didnt seem all that different from Jesus. The movie "The Life of Brian" does a weirdly good job of presenting this phenomenon.
Eli was just another one of those wandering preacher types. Had a butterfly flapped its wings in a different direction, perhaps Eli would be the one we remember today and Jesus would be a minor footnote.
So id like to think that Eli and Jesus were basically work colleagues from different corporations. They arent the same person, and they arent supposed to be, but they pretty much have the same job and a personality that befits the job.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
I love that! I like the thought of a bunch of guys just wandering around, picking up besties, like "get in loser, we're gunna go preach love and kindness!"
WarAgile9519@reddit
Afraid I can't help you , this is the point of the series I always check out.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
🤣 Oh I definitely understand, it's not everyone's cup of tea lol
WarAgile9519@reddit
Don't get me wrong I like the show over all but the Eli arc was step too far for me . I just want to enjoy my Greek mythology show in piece without without pseudo Christianity butting in , granted knowing what we know now I'm kind of surprised that this story didn't take place over on Hercules instead.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
I've never watched Hercules, was there a plot point it would have fit in well to or do you mean what we know about the actor? Because omg did not see that coming 😳
WarAgile9519@reddit
I was talking about Sorbo , he's a great example of why it's best not to learn too much about your childhood heroes.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
Hey but!!! Lucy Lawless and Bruce Campbell are totally killing it still!!!
RotaVitae@reddit
Eli isn't meant to be the exact literal Jesus. He has different origins, a different backstory, and a different death. He's meant to allude to Christ, not be him. If he were Christ, the show would receive complaints that they did not depict the life of Christ accurately, especially his most important events: the Crucifixion and resurrection. Eli was murdered by Ares and he does not come back to life. These days I'm sure Sorbo would lead that protest if they said they are showing Jesus.
Eli combines elements of many religious figures who are perceived as Avatars, including Jesus and Krishna, who was featured in The Way and called Eli's Way "the Ultimate Way." Eli is an Avatar, a deity in human form. While it's fairly obvious he's not the avatar of a Hindu god (he called him "Abba", Hebrew for father), that doesn't matter in the Xenaverse. The Indians can recognize the avatar and venerate him because his miraculous powers are obvious.
His religion is not precisely the same as Christianity either because there was no prophet/healer named Eve. She is baptized by "The Baptist" who has no name. There is reincarnation involved, of angel Callisto. It's a 90s mashup of Christian mythology with Hinduism and New Age thought.
The writers are deliberate with their labels, especially for such a significant plot point. They twist Christian religion just enough that they can get away with saying it's "something else" rather than it being technically exact. We all really know what they're implying, but they avoid potential censorship by explicitly making it not so. Caligula calls the followers "Elijians" to show that we're dealing with something invented for the show, not Christianity.
There was a coy suggestion at the end of A Solstice Carol with Gabrielle giving her donkey away to the woman with her baby who gave them God's blessings. On Hercules, Iolaus performed good deeds and was guided by a star to a glowing stable that he was allowed to visit.
Infinite_Yellow1328@reddit (OP)
That's extremely well explained, thank you! I remember that episode! I haven't watched Hercules, but I like it when they do little things like that, like little Easter eggs (no pun intended)