Is oppression denial as prominent in the UK as it is in the US? Do you talk about it?

Posted by Threedawg@reddit | AskABrit | View on Reddit | 36 comments

Whenever the oppression that the UK dished out to the rest of the world is brought up on European-heavy subreddits, it is often downvoted and/or denied(this is true of other countries like France as well). There seem to be a lot of people claiming that the UK either didnt do it, it wasnt that bad, that the UK was "civilizing" the rest of the world, or just an attitude of "thats how things are, we won, get over it".

As an American, I see similar attitudes from a lot of Americans but they are a distinct group. There is a huge divide of people that acknowledge the imperialism/oppression, and those that don't. It is a topic that really splits the nation.

Is the situation similar in the UK? Is it close to a 50/50 split of those that acknowledge it and those that dont? Am I just seeing the bigots because it is social media?

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govnyuuk@reddit

No Americanisms please we're British

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

What do you mean? Genuinely curious.

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kilgore_trout1@reddit

What you’ve asked feels like something that we hear of that comes out of primarily American Academia that involves a sort of national navel gazing that we don’t tend go through in for so much in the UK.

In the UK we know we have a very complex history but rather than tending toward being either overly proud of it or indeed overly ashamed it tends to be considered just something that happened. Mostly before we were all collectively born so it seems irrational to cling to it in either a positive or negative way.

I’m obviously speaking in very general terms here as of course I’m sure some people do feel very strongly and personally connected to our history in a way that would lead us to think in terms of who oppressed who - but generally speaking most people either consider it just some shit that happened a long time ago, or more commonly don’t think about it at all.

And it’s actually even more complicated than that because whilst Kenyans or Indians or the Irish might feel completely justifiably oppressed against by the British, well so were the working class English / Scottish / Welsh factory workers by the landed classes. So really these days who’s to say whose ancestors were oppressing who?

I think that was maybe what OP was suggesting anyway.

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

This is a fantastic answer and explains the disconnect, thank you.

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TrifectaOfSquish@reddit

No we are well aware of the negative things in our past with key events being part of the national curriculum https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/z7kvf82 for an example of free resources that are used for it. We also don't have the high level of propaganda that the US uses to mask it's actions

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

Im curious, was does everyone in this thread keep saying it is in the past?

Neocolonialism is still happening.

This feels similar to the Americans claiming racism was over when we passed the civil rights act. Can you help me understand why its not the same?

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TrifectaOfSquish@reddit

Well that's covered by the news as it's current events, spend some time in the UK and you will see it's a current dialogue or look on politics focused subs

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

I feel like politics focused subs have a HEAVY skew one way or another, and I dont want to generalize a county of 60 + million people based on it

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TrifectaOfSquish@reddit

Well that's the best place to get info on current issues you may also want to think about how you phrase your questioning to avoid being accused of bad faith questions as you started asking about the past and then pivot in response to asking about current events

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

Colonialism is not in the past. Why do you think it is?

I asked about denying oppression in the past *and* present.

You would think people with a country that such a long history would understand that the last 50 years is still very much "current". And also the UK is still exploiting and oppressing other countries right now.

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mrbadger2000@reddit

Main difference is that here in the UK we gave up this kind of stuff. USA seen to be carrying the torch for now

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

I mean, neocolonialism is still happening. British companies are still extracting wealth and resources from former colonies and keeping them poor.

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jibbit@reddit

So broadly, by ‘still happening’, you mean companies registered in the UK - the place where multinational companies register - exploit poorer nations?
that sounds less like colonialism and more like a criticism of multinational capitalism. What makes it colonialism rather than capitalism?

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

The only reason you have those companies is because they are former colonies, your government influences elections to prevent those resources from being nationalized, the international rules were written to benefit the UK, the list goes on.

All of the exploitation done by the US is in the name of "capitalism".

Just because it is in the name of capitalism doesn't mean its not exploitation and colonialism.

This is almost exactly what I mean. Why do people in the UK act like this stuff is okay/justified?

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Astroradical@reddit

I think this thread alone proves that it is. We like to pretend that we exploited people a long time ago but then ended it forever. Aren't we still exploiting Palestinians by selling aircraft to murder them?

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HiphopopoptimusPrime@reddit

This is the algorithm feeding you content.

All I seem to get is people criticizing what the UK did.

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OllyDee@reddit

To have a full understanding of the details of British colonialism you’d have to spend at least some time studying those details - not just the light and broad overview the majority of Britons get at school. People simply don’t know. And realistically how much time should the education system spend on this, at the expense of the other 2000 years of British history they also need a light and broad overview of?

We’re not all historians so I don’t think it’s fair to blame modern Brits.

There’s another factor here, the perceived risk of “doing Britain down”, that focussing on the negatives undermines the positives and teaches people a negative view about their own history and culture. I can’t help but think we’re already at that point, and it’s not healthy.

In summary, give us a break. We’re not the colonial empire we used to be, and some one else took that torch away from us, perhaps thankfully.

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BeaumarchaisApu@reddit

I don’t see that much denialism, but I see a lot of people who don’t care. Including me.

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

Why don't you care?

Is it not important to acknowledge and understand that the country's wealth and success has come on the backs of genocide and exploitation?

Neocolonialism is directly tied to current issues and is still actively happening.

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BeaumarchaisApu@reddit

Maybe for some people. I have no interest in history.

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

I just explained how its not history. Its literally still happening.

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nogardleirie@reddit

I grew up in the Empire. I also don't care. It was history.

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BeaumarchaisApu@reddit

And I explained that I don’t care.

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EconomicsPotential84@reddit

Unfortunately there is a significant number of people who view the Empire with rose tinted glasses, but they're not as aggressive as some of the same ilk in America who deni/defend slavery, jim crow, native genocide.

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

I mean, I am being downvoted for merely suggesting that neocolonialism is still happening.

Based on this thread it seems more like the UK is in denial that they are also still the bad guys.

I hope its just the internet/this subreddit and not the general vibe of the UK. Thats a pretty scary thought.

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Swimming_Acadia6957@reddit

I don't think anyone from the UK would deny we had an empire and did some fucked up stuff

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SilyLavage@reddit

I do think there's a general lack of awareness of exactly what we did, outside a few issues such as the slave trade.

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Swimming_Acadia6957@reddit

Sure, there is a lot to fit in to one hour a week for 3-5 years

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SilyLavage@reddit

What are you referring to, sorry?

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Gingers_got_no_soul@reddit

No one would deny we had an empire, but I've met a concerning amount that would deny it was bad

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feedthetrashpanda@reddit

I don't feel like British Colonialism is denied in the UK. It's taught in school, and often referenced in media, documentaries, dramas, all sorts and most certainly doesn't make the British the good guys. I think it would be hard to find a Brit that would say they were proud of it/thought there was nothing wrong with it.

Furthermore, there have been movements to further step away from slavery and things too. Bristol had a prominent slave trader named Colston with a concert hall, school, and many areas of the city named after him. His statue was thrown in the quay after being vandalised, the concert hall and school were renamed etc. Some people argue this is deleting him from history/denying the city's history, but some argue that it's unacceptable for him to have such an honoured presence in the town, given his actions. The concert hall used to have untouched historical dungeons essentially (not accessed by the public) where slaves were held with gutters down the middle. It's grim.

His statue was retrieved and if I recall there's now a museum exhibition explaining it all.

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etzpcm@reddit

Perhaps the difference is that your country is still doing it?

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Threedawg@reddit (OP)

The UK isnt?

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