Dealing with Elderly Parents
Posted by Carinyosa99@reddit | GenX | View on Reddit | 42 comments
Ohhhh the sandwich generation! I have a 17 yo son and we're in the throes of preparing for his final year of high school and college applications. But I also have two elderly parents, who are divorced. Mom is 78 and lives locally with my brother but I am the one who takes her to her multitude of doctor appointments. Dad is 81 but has lived far away from us (overseas) since we were teenagers. He lives the closest to us ever now but it's still a 10 hour drive.
Now dad and his current wife (who is Korean) are on the rocks. Their entire 35-year marriage has been rocky for the majority of the time - I think it was more a marriage of convenience than a marriage of love (not that there wasn't love but convenience was a bigger priority for both of them). His wife has brought up divorce numerous times over the years but now she is dead serious about it. Most of their marriage they lived in Korea and only moved to the US after dad retired in 2019. She has never enjoyed living here and I think she's reached her breaking point and wants to go back.
Dad doesn't want divorce, but realizes that she will most likely be leaving him. So now the question is, at his age, should he get a divorce or just remain separated for the rest of their lives? I know that it's best to consult with an attorney who specializes in elder law, and that's what we plan to eventually do, but I was curious if anyone has dealt with this with their elderly parents. I put together a chart of pros and cons for divorce vs. separation and I'm thinking it's best if they just stay legally married. If he divorced, I think it would be financially devastating for him because he's already giving a portion of his retirement to my mom per their divorce agreement. He would likely have to do this with his current wife if they divorce. I also know that's a possibility if they got a legal separation agreement, but they might just separate without formalities. My dad doesn't have a lot in the way of assets, so when he passes away, there is not a big inheritance that my brother and I would receive. He has life insurance policies, but that's not attached to a will. He has a run-down property in another state that is his childhood home (it's a 125 years old house that hasn't been maintained and a little bit of land). Neither my brother nor I want it. He has no siblings or other family up there who would want it. And my dad has a federal pension that takes place of Social Security and his wife would get a survivor annuity whether she's married to him or not so there's no benefit to divorce for that.
Would you ever suggest your parents not divorce and just stay married on paper at this age? I just think it makes no sense in my dad's case because staying married protects him more than getting a divorce.
Emotional_Ad5714@reddit
It depends on whether you want her to get half his shit now, or all his shit when he dies.
s_mcbn@reddit
Yeah. If there is any estate at all, she’ll get all of it if they are married and he passes before she does.
In a divorce, she’ll get less. Probably half.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
There isn't really an estate except a $5,000 worthless piece of land with a 125 year old house that's falling apart. And a Jeep that she can't drive that my dad is still paying off. She can have both.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
She can have all of it after he dies because there isn't anything of value. I would love to see her having to handle that run-down property.
Inner-Confidence99@reddit
If he stays married but separated she is still considered his next of kin. She will be the only person a hospital will listen to what she tells them.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
No - he can have a power of attorney and medical power of attorney changed to name me and my brother. I've looked into that already.
Inner-Confidence99@reddit
Make sure as soon as it is done that his doctor and hospital have this on file. The hospital can scan it into his chart. He also needs a living will.
My partner had to have a living will, power of attorney for medical decisions with a copy of the persons named ID that had to be given to his doctors and the hospital 7 days before he had to have surgery. This was required by the Dr and hospital he was going to be at for the surgery.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
What I call a medical power attorney is an advance directive, so yes, living will. We went through this with my mom because she nearly died back in 2020 and the hospital had that on file. But she was much less of a complicated case because her next of kin would be me and my brother.
Which reminds me, my mom needs to update her advance directive since it has some old information for me and my brother on it.
heynow941@reddit
Never been in that situation, but trying to imagine it. Let’s say no divorce, by the wife moves back to Korea. Now you’re trying to mange what’s left of his estate with a wife who lives in another country, who possibly doesn’t want anything to do with it. Can you legally close out his affairs without her signature on documents, or without her consent? Or will you be doing everything in a legal grey zone?
I’d say divorce now to make future estate settlement cleaner. My assumption is you’ll never see or hear from this woman ever again after she moves back to Korea.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
I've looked into some of this. They have almost no joint property. She may be on the deed to the run-down property. He might be able to do a quitclaim deed and have her sign off on it to remove herself (it would have been a quitclaim deed to add her to it). I know she doesn't want the hassle of that property. But hey, if she's not removed from the deed, she'll be solely responsible for property taxes and the water bill (which has to be paid just to have the connection at the main out in the street) and that will be her problem, not mine.
The only other thing they jointly have I believe is their bank account and I think the plan would be for my dad to open up a separate bank account in just his name and have his pension deposited there and he can pay bills from that account. But I don't think he has more than a couple thousand dollars to be honest. Fortunately, the credit union where he does all his banking is very helpful for complicated matters because they're used to dealing with customers that are all over the world due to military or US government work.
The will honestly will have nothing really to distribute because he is worth practically nothing in personal assets. Life insurance is a completely separate matter and I know that he has policies naming me and my brother as beneficiaries. He has another one naming her and he can choose to remove her if he wishes.
RedditSkippy@reddit
r/agingparents but this sounds like more of a legal/estate question.
Available-Bison-9222@reddit
The benefit to divorce is that she can't contest the will. She won't have immediate rights of inheritance. As his spouse she is his automatic next of kin. She will be consulted regarding his care, end of life decisions and funeral.
As his wife she would have the right to have the plug pulled in the hospital. She would have the right to cremate your father and scatter his ashes in the sewer.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
There wouldn't be much to inherit - and my brother and I don't want the only thing that is of value, which is the run-down property.
If my dad has a power of attorney and a healthcare directive written to designate me and/or my brother as attorney-in-fact or agent and we provide copies, the wife actually has no say in the matter. If they do end up separating and not divorcing, this is the very first thing we will have him do.
Suspicious_Spite5781@reddit
Unless they get his healthcare surrogate and POA paperwork done. Yes, this is absolutely a concern!
Available-Bison-9222@reddit
The funeral thing should be taken into account.
Also, they mention a house that nobody wants. Would they not plan to sell it and distribute the money?
If the don't the wife will get the house and be able to sell it.
Nervous-Rooster7760@reddit
Mine probably should have divorced years ago. They seem set to just ride it to and now. As someone who got divorced it was such a good decision for both of us. We are happier better people and still get along.
My parent marital status is none of my business. I want no involvement on the matter.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
The only reason I'm involved with this is to look out for my dad to make sure that he can support himself with her gone. Believe me, I'd love to not be involved with this at all but my dad does not have a support system at all.
Candleforce-9728@reddit
I get where you are coming from. It’s probably best to stay married and just live apart. If he owns his house he should make a will that says who it goes to.
BabySea674@reddit
A no contest divorce maybe. She agrees to not get anything she didn't bring in. Let's say for a paid ticket .
neepster44@reddit
That’s not the way the law works. She gets half the marital assets that were gained during the marriage unless there was a very airtight prenup in place which it doesn’t sound that there was.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
Well, it's a good thing there aren't really any marital assets. She'd get survivor benefits regardless of whether they're divorced or married with my dad's FERS pension (he gets that instead of Social Security) because he set up a survivor annuity in her name when he retired and that likely won't be changed even if they got divorced because they were married so long - I can't see a judge being willing to take that away. Life insurance policies can be changed whether they're married or not, but knowing my dad, he'd keep her on as a beneficiary anyway.
marge7777@reddit
They did love in Korea. The rules could be different there…
marge7777@reddit
35 year marriage?
Really?
beek7425@reddit
Whether or not my parents stay married is 100% up to them. Even as elderly people, as long as they’re not demented, I would not expect to have any say in it, and wouldn’t offer my opinion unless they asked. Has he asked for your advice? If you’re in a position to pay for an attorney and he’s not, I might offer that to him. Otherwise, I’d stick to providing emotional support. As far as the property, is there a reason why he hasn’t sold it?
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
Yes, my dad is asking my brother and me for guidance. He has NO clue how to handle this. He has been like this as long as I can remember. When my parents were married, she is the one who handled all the paperwork type stuff. It's why she got the better deal in their divorce too.
He hasn't sold the property probably because of sentimental reasons, but also he needs to go there and it's a three day trip for him by car. He has personal items, mostly furniture that was shipped there when they moved back stateside and they never took down to where he lives now. Also, the market up there is horrendous - houses that are actually liveable don't sell and no one wants to live in this town. I think it's valued at less than $5,000 - I am not kidding.
elbyl@reddit
All this presupposes the wife has no agency in this decision. Its so strange.
LobsterLovingLlama@reddit
Right? A divorce is probably in the best interest of his current wife. I’m sure she is getting advice as well.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
His wife will not even go to a lawyer. We had some legal matters happen back in 2020 and she had VERY little understanding of what was being presented to her even though it was translated into Korean. At that time, she relied on input from her son, who has openly stated he hates me, my brother, my husband, and my dad. He has no legal background and only has a degree in accounting - not even a CPA.
This woman tried to swindle money that my brother and I are legally entitled to in the past. She's manipulative. I really don't care what's in HER best interest and it's surprising that people would think I shoud be sympathetic to her needs.
LobsterLovingLlama@reddit
I’m not saying you need to be sympathetic to her. Just that she has a say and will probably get different advice.
hiscapness@reddit
Why is it your concern? Feels like you’re more worried about finances than him, tbh. The whole thing is about settlements, insurance, annuities, etc. At 81, that guy likely can live well for the rest of his days no matter what if he divorces. If they’re unhappy and want to end it, they should know the consequences of doing so.
Chilly-Willy252@reddit
Dad is 81 but has had a Korean wife for 31 years?
Mammoth_Sell5185@reddit
I think the obvious answer is it would be helpful for you to consult a family law, lawyer in your jurisdiction who can advise you on the pros and cons and legalities of separation versus no separation versus divorce.
But beyond the purely Financial and “hard“ issues, how about emotionally for both your dad and stepmother? Do they want to make a full break emotionally and just be divorced and move on? Despite what you and a bunch of commenters on Reddit might have to say about this, she may have stronger feelings and want to actually get a divorce.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
Oh definitely. The problem is I can't consult with one that is in his jurisdiction because we are in a completely different state and I won't travel there. My dad was planning on going to a lawyer with her on Friday and then she changed her mind about the lawyer. So I don't know. My brother has a good friend who is a lawyer who works with estate planning, trusts, and probate so we could consult with him but it's in our state.
My dad doesn't want a divorce, but I think part of that is because he's scared. She wants a divorce because she feels that my dad didn't live up to her expectations based on Korean traditions (she is what's called "old school" Korean and it's hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it). There is a huge cultural element to all of this. But I honestly don't think divorce is even beneficial for her either. She'd still get survivor benefits on my dad's federal pension whether married or divorced. She doesn't have money to pay a divorce attorney. Yes, she would likely get alimony payments but I'm sure my dad would still send her money if they were just separated (and if they had a legal separation, that likely would be included). If they stay married, she will still have benefits that are available through marriage. And there would be statutory rights if she stays married. I think she's more concerned with how she will live after he's gone so staying married might be better for her, but also him.
Suspicious_Spite5781@reddit
Attorneys have phones and computers. They can absolutely consult using those two devices.
divergurl1999@reddit
Debts of the deceased are usually written off. A spouse is not legally liable for credit cards, medical debt, etc…unless the spouse’s name is jointly on the account.
The thing you should be concerned about is if he doesn’t give POA or medical POA to one of his children remaining in the States, hospitals are legally obligated to contact next of kin when the patient cannot speak for themselves. If they only separate and not divorce, your Korean step mother is legal next of kin, even if she’s not in the US. If he passes, even that property no one wants will legally be hers. The life insurance will be hers unless he named someone else beneficiary when he obtained the policy. She’s legal next of kin so everything belonging to him will become hers, legally speaking. It will be a huge PItA to change deeds, titles of vehicles, etc…to your name if she’s not willing or available to deal with this legal stuff due to her being in Korea.
There are huge ramifications you’re not even thinking about if he only separates rather than allowing the divorce. Consult a lawyer. I’m not one but I have watched this process play out in different family members who have passed away with no wills. Get your dad to make a will and file it with the local courts so that no one can “get to it first,” in an effort to destroy it to be able to say there isn’t one. Family deaths do horrible things to people. People can and will do things that you don’t think k they they otherwise would do. It’s horrible.
marge7777@reddit
If she wants some of his assets she will file for the divorce. It’s not only his decision.
Informal-Name3181@reddit
My husband is moving out. We just printed off a paper separation agreement and got it notorized. If I understand correctly, you only have to file separation in court if you want the court to enforce something. Having a paper separation agreement is supposed to protect us from each other's financial choices.
It hasn't been tested yet.
I personally can't see the point of a divorce at his age. However, I highly suggest making it clear legally who will make healthcare decisions if your dad is incapacitated and writing a will.
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. But that is interesting to know that you can just have a notarized separation agreement. Did you seek a lawyer for help with that?
Dad has had a will most of his life due to him living overseas and his job highly emphasized the need for one. We can also get both financial and medical powers of attorney put together so that he has them (or they're updated to reflect current circumstances if he has not put them together). In my research, I have learned that the power of attorney would take precedence over his wife and it's one of the first thing we need to get done.
clappuh@reddit
Is there potential liability of debts for staying together? Like medical debts or judgements? I’d talk to a family lawyer or financial planner
Carinyosa99@reddit (OP)
If there are any debts, they're more likely with my dad not her. She has health problems and has not seen a doctor here. That's also why she needs to go back to Korea because she trusts doctors there more than here.
No_Inflation1450@reddit
Stay married. Couples seperate and live in separate countries. No to divorce at this point. Let her go back. He can sell everything so there's nothing left for her.
Sufficient_Stop8381@reddit
Usually I’d just say ride it out to the end, but if the wife wants to move back to Korea, I could imagine the end of life medical care and estate legal nightmare you could be stuck with, with a surviving spouse living in another country while you have to deal with his stuff here.