Nikon weaponizes lower prices to break ASML's lithography monopoly — tech giant leverages in-house manufacturing to slash prices to lure back American chipmakers
Posted by sr_local@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 27 comments
ML7777777@reddit
ASML? At best they will compete with Cymer (an ASML subsidary) that is already on their 5th generation of ArF immersion machines.
ritz_are_the_shitz@reddit
I forgot that Nikon does lithography equipment
ThePandaRider@reddit
Sounds like they don't, or at least they haven't had sales in about a year.
And the product they have for sale is DUV machines while everyone is interested in EUV. And on top of that they still want $80 million per machine.
ButtPlugForPM@reddit
DUV makes sense for things like car chips and other stuff thats not A.I related.
there is no reason the chips in a ford ranger need to be on a 3nm node it's not like energy efficiency is required lol
FlyingBishop@reddit
Energy efficiency is always valuable. And also, if the machinery is only 30% harder to operate but 50% more effective in a variety of ways, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to invest time in the worse equipment.
There are probably some applications where larger nodes are strictly better but IDK.
ForceItDeeper@reddit
Id imagine while those chips in washing machines might be 3nm, they arent using the best silicon for them.
raptorlightning@reddit
Analog is better in larger nodes.
TowardsTheImplosion@reddit
But EUV is only needed for some layers. Looking at the big fabs: every EUV machine is usually accompanied by a few DUV machines. Why run things like BEOL on the most expensive process that is also the most throughout limited?
This is what Nikon is trying to bust into. The supporting processes that have gone to ASML by default with the rise of EUV.
80 mil is expected for a new DUV system...And relatively reasonable for what it is. Much cheaper than the quarter billion plus for an EUV system.
ThePandaRider@reddit
The problem is that companies like Intel and TSMC have a ton of DUV machines, as they transition to using EUV more heavily the DUV machines are left over and are now being used for things like packaging. And even those EUV machines are likely to be phased out for High NA EUV in the future. Intel has already been working with ASML to get High NA EUV going for years. DUV will still be needed but it's likely that people will prefer to continue to get their equipment from ASML as long as the prices ASML charges are reasonable.
Klemun@reddit
So does Canon, right? It seems like they are not on the bleeding edge like ASML, but rather satisfying the rest of the market, which is good too.
Nuck_Chorris_Stache@reddit
Their camera sensors don't need to have features that small
WhiteSpaceChrist@reddit
They're completely sperate business entities within Canon. They're not using them for camera sensors. They also do jet and flash nano imprint lithography I think mainly aimed at NAND flash.
ritz_are_the_shitz@reddit
Sony does their sensors
frankchn@reddit
Nikon yes, but Canon makes their own sensors.
IglooDweller@reddit
Weaponizes lower prices??
You mean like a normal thing under capitalism free-market rules??
Allfeelings0Logic@reddit
Yes but it's a bad thing under reddit communist rules.
Chipay@reddit
At least no one is getting 'slammed' these days anymore...
zakats@reddit
That one went on way, way too long. Thank you for SLAMMING their bad practices with such SAVAGERY, they'll never recover from this Complete Demolition of their Entire Business Model.
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(Yes, this comment was annoying on purpose for those who were born yesterday)
plantsandramen@reddit
I'm glad the comments on the article are calling it out as stupid.
hackenclaw@reddit
wouldnt that be better to just sell it to China fab companies without price cut?
sicklyslick@reddit
Probably not allowed
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Which is stupid because it basically amounts to a process and machinery R&D encouragement for the PRC government and will end with them eating the western name's lunch.
Sufficient_Loss9301@reddit
Eh Chinas been 5 years behind the cutting edge for the last 10 years. Doubtful that changes considerably
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Especially as the PRC is doing some clever things with DUV, meaning they can better compete with ASML there?
fenikz13@reddit
Weaponizes? Uhh this is just selling an inferior product for cheaper
DeCiWolf@reddit
Yeah except nikon cant do lithography what asml does.
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