The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)
Posted by TheTwelveYearOld@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 71 comments
Posted by TheTwelveYearOld@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 71 comments
Tamaaya@reddit
Neat, yet another video codec no one will use because H264 is so ubiquitous.
JB231102@reddit
I've downloaded dozens upon dozens of videos encoded with AV1, gives great video quality and takes up less space. :)
Tamaaya@reddit
Yeah I'm familiar with that aspect, I've been looking at using it for files on my media server, which is a mix of DivX;-), MPEG-2, H264 and that weird Windows codec they had for a while.
I never seem to download videos that are encoded with it, though.
JB231102@reddit
I find that mostly YouTube videos have it. I haven't seen many movies other than the pirated kind. And the reason may be that to encode with AV1 the person encoding it needs a RTX card I think 4th gen or newer, or whatever the AMD equivalent is, and either way, those cards are expensive.
CryptographerNo8497@reddit
why is everyhting you say so confidently wrong? Just shut the fuck up jesus.
Brillegeit@reddit
That's for fast live encoding, for non-live transcoding you'd want to use a software encoder which can run on any hardware for best quality and compression.
JB231102@reddit
News to me
newsflashjackass@reddit
"Drops frames and kills the battery of any device that decodes it because it is so CPU-intensive"
MATHIS111111@reddit
As would MP4 if you tried playing it on a Commodore 64...
the_latin_joker@reddit
That's only if you can't do hardware decoding, Idk how many ppl can actually hardware decode it, my laptop has a pentium from 2012 and can't even decode h265 without killing itself.
JB231102@reddit
I can't say I've experienced either of those things
MATHIS111111@reddit
H264 is still everywhere for compatibility. Even the shittiest devices can software decode it if need be. H265 has seen a great influx in hardware support, as has AV1. Both being used extensively in both streaming and personal video recording.
I highly doubt that H266 or anything MPEG, will ever receive the same kind of adaption H264 had, now that AV1 and AV2 are being backed by some of the largest industry giants and proprietary physical formats like BluRays are losing relevancy.
Simon_787@reddit
AV1 is very widely used now. If anything, it's on its way to becoming the next H.264.
lebrandmanager@reddit
My nvidia shield TV from 2016 is not even able to playback AV1. I am happy that HEVC works.
kaszak696@reddit
Dunno what you expected, AV1 wasn't even invented yet when Shield TV got released. Of course it wouldn't have the hardware to play it.
lebrandmanager@reddit
You don't get my point. AV2 will not have any impact for normal consumers for the next 5-10 years
kaszak696@reddit
So? Of course people who use obsolete devices like Shield TV won't benefit from the new tech, duh. AV1 needed like 7 years to reach widespread adoption, this one will too in time.
devolute@reddit
Good point. Here that everyone? Stop advancing technology now. No point. Shut it down.
UKbeard@reddit
Devices will start shipping with AV2 hardware decoders in \~2yrs. Youtube will add support for AV2 within the next year on some videos. They will probably require you to manually enable decoding it unless you have a hardware decoder.
lebrandmanager@reddit
I am not so convinced, but let's see.
adamkex@reddit
Not even through CPU decoding? I thought that thing was a beast, or am I overrating old hardware?
kaszak696@reddit
Tegra X1 is nothing special CPU-wise, ARM Cortex cores from that era are quite weak. Though, it should be able to manage 720p or maybe even 1080p with dav1d.
sketched8@reddit
i don't have any av1 compatible hardware yet and av2 is already released. still a free codec is always better
FunEnvironmental8687@reddit
You don't actually need dedicated hardware software decoding and encoding will work just fine
creeper6530@reddit
Not if you have a CPU older than a year...
Negirno@reddit
I have a Sandybridge i3 and 1080p AV1 runs just fine.
mpvthrows some warnings/errors, but otherwise, it's good.JB231102@reddit
Try 2K or 4K AV1 :P
Shap6@reddit
1080p is 2k
Neither-Phone-7264@reddit
isn't that 1440p?
JB231102@reddit
Technically...
2K is short for 1440p and 4K is short for 2160p
1080p doesn't really have a short form, it is what it is. I guess FHD is short for it but I never hear anyone except businesses use it.
Shap6@reddit
this isn't correct. 1080p has always been 2k: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution
Shap6@reddit
the monitor industry has tried to make it mean that but no its 1080p. think of it this way: if 2160p is 4k. divide 2160 in half to get 1080, aka 2k. these designations come from the film industry. if we want 1440p to have a "k" it should really be 2.5k
creeper6530@reddit
And how fast does it encode?
sketched8@reddit
yeah dav1d is some great software.
SethDusek5@reddit
I mean, not exactly. You'd probably go from over 12 hours of video playback to something closer to 1 on most mobile devices. Encoding for screen recording would also be a problem while gaming unless you have a high core count CPU.
Lawnmover_Man@reddit
All these codecs were released waaaay before public adoption. AVC (h264) was released in 2004. Most people used h263 for years to come.
niceworkthere@reddit
meanwhile, h.266 (2020!) would be dead in the water if it weren't for some baksheesh'ed broadcast deployments
Lawnmover_Man@reddit
What does that mean?
cafk@reddit
It's being used for DVB broadcasting in Europe - otherwise the next Gen via-la (moeg-la) patented codec hasn't seen that much support, not even on desktop or streaming world.
Kichigai@reddit
They might be thinking about H.265 and how it's part of the ATSC 3.0 standards. No idea what “baksheesh'ed” means though.
Kichigai@reddit
Nobody used H.263 outside of telecom applications, like video phones. People used MPEG-4 Part 2, usually implemented through DivX or XviD codecs.
Mr_Skeltal_Naxbem@reddit
How fast is OBS going to implement AV2 encoding? What about hardware? Assuming companies don't abandon GPUs production for the sake of AI
usrname_checking_out@reddit
They are still on h264 lmao
ivosaurus@reddit
Twitch intentionally won't allow H265 streaming, if you switch to Youtube though, you should see both H265 and AV1 options show up in advanced output because YT does allow those
usrname_checking_out@reddit
You're right i thought i had it on custom..
Squeeps-@reddit
Twitch supports 265 and AV1 if you join Enhanced Broadcasting.
trenixjetix@reddit
h265 is implemented 🤔
usrname_checking_out@reddit
Well ok then, did not see that 4 months ago when i last i checked
Irverter@reddit
It's been there for years already.
GodsBadAssBlade@reddit
Heres hoping that av1 capable cards are retroactively given av2 encoding. Which probably doesnt work like that but a man can dream damngit!
FunEnvironmental8687@reddit
AV1 hardware won't handle AV2 they're completely different codecs and need their own dedicated decoding and encoding blocks
A_Canadian_boi@reddit
Partly true, but the codecs are often similar enough that they can sometimes backport the hardware. Eg. h265 is close enough to h264 that with some clever shaders, most modern GPUs just have a single unit that does both
580083351@reddit
It's never quite the same. Intel's Broadwell CPU for example didn't ship with full hardware decode for h.265 or VP09. They put out a driver that could leverage some, but not all of it and it did crash sometimes.
ilep@reddit
Modern hardware has plenty of programmability and hardware has fixed functions mainly for routines which are generically applicable. Things like fast fourier transformations and discrete cosine transformations might be implemented as fixed functions. There's no specific silicon dedicated for H.264, H.265 and H266, for example.
ivosaurus@reddit
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that
RayneYoruka@reddit
This was my thoughts right now after reading through the page a bit.
burning_iceman@reddit
You can expect the next gen of graphics cards to not have it and the following one might.
tonymurray@reddit
Going to be awhile I'm not sure the reference encoder even works fully correctly yet and it definitely isn't optimized.
Confident_Dragon@reddit
I have mixed feelings about this. New and better format is always better, but even AV1 doesn't have large-enough adoption. It's like Linux. Open-source has small market-share, and even that small market share is terribly fragmented. It's different when some edgy neck beards use something and when it's true industry standard, and the AOM is trying to achieve the latter.
Kichigai@reddit
Biggest issue, AFAIK, is hardware decode and legacy hardware. There's a gajillion old cable boxes, game consoles, Rokus, Shields, Fire TVs, smart TVs, etc. out there that don't have hardware decode for AV1. If that weren't the case I'd wager AV1 would make up the bulk of streamed video.
But that's not even relevant to AV2. AOM is just developing standards. Nobody has to use them. And all the user-facing stuff is developed by people who are just using their standards. So we're talking about two independent groups there, it's not like it's one or the other.
Besides, MPEG developed a shitload of stuff that most consumers never saw. Between MPEG-2 standards and MPEG-4 standards there was MPEG-3 that died on the vine (and no, that's not MP3, that's part of MPEG-1). MPEG-4 Simple Studio Profile only ever saw application in Sony’s HDCAM-SR professional tape systems. But there's stuff like Scalable Video Coding that never saw the light of day. And that doesn't mean it's useless, because it can inform future developments or inform parallel developments.
afiefh@reddit
Every codec under the sun takes time to become popular mainly because you need to wait for hardware support which can take a decade to proliferate. AV1 released in 2018, and it's being used by YouTube and Netflix.
Same happened with h.264, it was released in 2001 and it took ages to become popular.
A large difference is that h.264 is good enough for 1080p video. One of the biggest advantages of h.265 and AV1 is in 4k videos, which are still not as popular as 1080p due to diminishing returns.
This is also the reason so many websites are still using jpeg even though webp , avif, jxl...etc are better formats. It takes time to shift to new tech.
Irverter@reddit
Pretty sure that just Youtube and Netflix, which both stream in AV1, have more users than the total of linux desktop users.
Simon_787@reddit
The biggest streaming platforms in the world have significant shares in AV1 watchtime. The numbers are not even remotely comparable to Linux on the Desktop.
OneTurnMore@reddit
YouTube is the biggest influence here, at least on the decode side.
LocalNightDrummer@reddit
For the uninitiated how does AV2 comparé to AV1 in terms of encoding and decoding complexity?
Hamilton950B@reddit
Everything I've read including the AOM website says AV2 is faster at encoding, but says nothing at all about decode speed. Which makes me think it's probably the same or slower.
ivosaurus@reddit
A lot of the problem with AV1 is encode complexity making real-time streaming hard, compared to something like H264, so doesn't surprised me if that's most of their focus. Decoding is practically always less challenging, and necessarily so, you can't be demanding beastly compute for consumer devices just to play back video.
equeim@reddit
Average cpu will struggle will 4k av1 decoding. With av2 even 1080p will probably be very expensive.
mocket_ponsters@reddit
According to the announcement for the dav2d decoder:
So don't expect any sort of real-time software decoding in the foreseeable future.
gnerfed@reddit
If this is an extrapolation of AV1 and I can use the same hardware I am excited, if it isn't I literally do not care.
Not_a_Candle@reddit
It will use hardware extensions of your cpu. There is no graphics hardware implementation yet, as you can imagine.
Their decision for implementing the use of stuff like SSSE and AVX means, that it will be quite fast, even in software based rendering applications and even a Pentium 4 can decode AV2 that way decently fast.