Asym spinnaker douse CHAOS — sail ends up twisted in V-berth every time
Posted by Patsfan1093@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 35 comments
Looking for some advice on asymmetric spinnaker handling. We’re running into a consistent problem and I’m trying to figure out if it’s technique, setup, or just us being sloppy.
Setup:
-Asym spinnaker
-Inside gybes
-Leeward douses through the forehatch
-No turtle bag or formal douse system
-After the sail comes in, it basically gets stuffed loose into the V-berth (no real packing/organizing afterward)
The issue:
After a douse, the sail is below the hatch in a pretty random pile. On the next set we often get:
-Full twists / corkscrew in the sail
-Clew/sheet wraps buried in the body of the sail
-Or just general chaos that makes the next hoist unpredictable
It feels like sometimes the sail comes down clean, but once it’s in the boat it loses all orientation and we’re basically gambling on the next set.
Questions:
-Is this mainly a stowage problem (lack of repacking/organization below) rather than a gybing issue?
-Would switching from inside to outside gybes actually help with this, or is that unrelated?
-Are we basically doing this wrong by just stuffing it into the V-berth instead of using a turtle bag or some kind of system?
-Any simple “bow-level” tricks for keeping the sail oriented (head/tack/clew + sheets) when you have to get it below quickly?
We’re not trying to slow the boat down with a complicated systems — just want something repeatable so the next hoist isn’t a crapshoot.
Thanks in advance.
Firebar@reddit
If you’re dropping in the forehatch try to keep all three corners on deck and not to let a loop of lazy sheet go down the hatch. That tends to make everything cleaner.
If it came down looking twisted run the tapes.
AmigoDelDiabla@reddit
You need to run the tapes on the upwind leg.
the-montser@reddit
Not if you’re takedowns are clean
AmigoDelDiabla@reddit
Did you read the post? Clearly the takedowns are a mess.
the-montser@reddit
Yes I did. Your answer is a band-aid and not actually the solution to the problem.
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
Dumb question, but are you saying to unhook the tack and clew and tape it in the v-berth, and then hook them back up once we’re taped?
KStieers@reddit
No .. just grab the head and follow the tape on the edge to the leading crew, making sure it's clear of twists or tangles.
-Maris-@reddit
This is the solution.
Foolserrand376@reddit
Looks like someone was on the bow once or twice. :)
kirbalert@reddit
You need to run the tapes
jaxn@reddit
Any chance you are driving too deep and letting the main out too much on the hoist?
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
It’s less on the initial set tbh. That’s out of the bag on the deck and is orderly. It’s the douse and following set that become the problem!
jaxn@reddit
yeah, that makes sense. there is less friction on the first hoist, so it may go up quicker. A slower hoist means you may be deeper before the chute fills.
futurebigconcept@reddit
Agreed, in my experience a bad host is usually the result of downwind angle at time of hoist. We usually have the tactician call the hoist from the back.
This is assuming that you've done some practice hoists and know that your lines are not clustered.
Comfortable-Ad8560@reddit
Work on the take down itself
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
IDK, I use a sock. Its just me on deck.
Foreign-Warning62@reddit
I’ve done a lot of bow and mast on a j105 and usually if it came down it would go back up. But, you had to be careful not to bring miles of sheet down into the v-berth with you. I usually aimed for having basically zero sheets down the hole (ok not zero but like, just as much as you have to to drop the clew on the v-berth).
Try to keep track of the clew, as squirrel I tried to shove it by my left foot, kneeling in the v-berth. Bring the rest of the sail in without bringing the rest of the sheets in. Have the tack and the head sort of on top of the pile if possible.
I gave up trying to run the tape because it took forever and I found it quite difficult to do (apparently this is a skill issue on my part). We really didn’t have many problems but I was always as diligent as possible in not bringing sheets down into the hole.
Also, I think this is not the preferred/recommended way of doing it, but I would bring the sail down by mostly pulling on the tape from clew to head (a bunch of belly would come in too, obv) and then pull the foot in last. So the tack was pretty much always on top and ready to come out first.
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
This is interesting; it seems like our primary issue is bringing a bunch of spin sheets into the vberth and then getting it wrapped around the sail. In your description, is the clew going in the hatch first?
Foreign-Warning62@reddit
Yes the clew goes in first. I know in theory you’re supposed to bring it in by the middle of the foot, but generally we would hand the sheet to the squirrel and they would run the sheet (keep it on deck out of the hatch) until they got to the clew then pop below with the clew. Call for halyard and then the sail comes down into the hatch. While this is going on the bowman is manhandling the foot onto the deck and helping pull/guide the sail into the hatch. Basically last thing the bowman would call for the tack and pull it toward the hatch. Squirrel brings it all in and the head and tack should naturally be pretty much on top of the pile. Bow shuts the hatch.
This isn’t really the usual method from what I’ve read but we had success with it.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
So we douse with a gopher, but if the tapes are put in the hands of the gopher in the right orientation then the sail will go back up in the right orientation. Some people here saying feed the foot. We dont do that because we've found it introduces a lot of twisting.
You dropping with a gopher? If the foredeck is just shoving it in foot first its going to be twisted.
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
Yes we have someone in the vberth, bowman is pulling the foot around the forestay and then helping to collect and stuff it down. We have had trouble with halyard timing and the pitman staying in sync. What do you mean by putting the tapes in the hands of gopher? Should the bowman be somehow organizing before passing into the vberth?
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
Bowman grabs the clew, ease the sheet, when they are ready they call tack, blow the tack and pole, and they collect the foot. The leech is on their shoulder as they collect, once their hand is around the luff (and they will grab the leech also which has been in their leeward shoulder during foot collection) once Bowman has solid grip on both tapes and pulling down they call halyard, halyard is released. Bowman puts the tapes in the correct orientation into the gophers hands, both pull straight down. Tidy drop for us means all 3 corners on deck
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
Interesting thank you! We have been doing a different sequence that might be contributing: Bowman pulls the clew around with the lazy sheet, once we get it over the hatch, we been burping the halyard to get it down, and then we open tack at the very end.
So you are saying, tack before halyard to basically hug the sail before sending it down the hatch?
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
Yeah going halyard first is probably the main cause of the mess. Ive only ever gone halyard first on boats with a drop line
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
That is super helpful, thank you!
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
I should add though this doesn't work if the spinnaker is too big
high_yield@reddit
How big is the boat? If it's not "big", you shouldn't be sending anyone below to run tapes or repack anything. That is slow.
Gybes have nothing to do with it.
Get the clew and foot in first, try to keep things "orderly" on the douse (mostly via controlling halyard speed), and have the bowman take 5 seconds before the hatch closes to make sure the tack, head, and most of the luff tape is visible on top of the pile. Take another 5 seconds before the hoist as the tack is going out to do the same.
Learn how to deal with hourglasses.
Learn how to do Mexican douses and windward douses.
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
40 foot. Often feels like we have the clew tack and head on top, but we end up with twists as the spin sheet somehow gets underneath a mountain of sail in the vberth.
jeffeviejo@reddit
Don't worry about it coming down. Bow man should be repacking it to set up for next use.
It's not hard to pack it straight.
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
Repacking it in the bag in the v-berth?
jeffeviejo@reddit
It's what I used to do.
Patsfan1093@reddit (OP)
Interesting, thanks! So from the hatch, are you putting the bag back in the deck or launching from down below again?
jeffeviejo@reddit
I always put it back in the bag and attached the bag to the bow pulpit.
Original_Dood@reddit
If you have time it makes for a nicer set. If you don't have time, at least run the tapes from head to clew/tack and trap the corners in the hatch once each tape is straight, or find some other way to keep the in the right spot after you confirm it's clean.
RegattaTimer@reddit
Not to be overthought. This is what a spinnaker looks like in its natural habitat.