At what price point are you no longer paying for better performance from a handgun and are single action more expensive because they perform better than da/sa or mainly for other reasons?
Posted by Realistic_Guava9117@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 16 comments
I've only bought Glocks up until recently. I started looking into different handgun designs the last few days and i'm not understanding why the general consensus is that Single Action Only performs better than Double Action/Single Action. I have of course only shot Glocks so I can't make my own opinion on it yet. What i've mostly seen online is people saying SAO is a better shooter due to it's design. Flat trigger, a faster rate of fire, lower recoil shooting, etc. Is all of that true even though you can set DA/SA handguns to single action for every shot as well? Is the flat trigger and the fact that the guns are not hybrid DA/SA what causes them to perform "better" or is that not truly the case?
ttkciar@reddit
I don't think a gun's performance has much to do with its price tag. The price has mainly to do with other things, like brand recognition and popular demand.
PrometheusSmith@reddit
I would guarantee there's a strong correlation between the price of a gun and the overall performance, and that once you start looking at things like actual QA/QC and support, it would be very easy to show that higher price causes you to have a better experience.
The reason that guns like Caniks and Arexs (not knocking either, but Taurus is shit) perform so well is that even though they may not be as well performing as a Glock, is that slope of performance vs price is pretty flat.
betelgeuse_3x@reddit
For sure a Taurus will perform just as well, and functionally just as reliably as an HK or CZ. 🤡
ASnakeNamedNate@reddit
Single Action only triggers are generally more crisp because they only have to design it to release the sear/hammer connection. DA/SA have to have geometry that allows it to work in double action (cocking the hammer then releasing) so even when they can be tuned to be very good (like a LTT Beretta) if you have double action function you have extra trigger travel/take up you don’t need for a SAO gun.
Single Action triggers help performance because they’re usually light, crisp, and short to pull. These qualities help prevent you from throwing off your own shot. If you put to much force on the trigger, at an off angle not straight back, even if your sights are aligned your trigger pull being poor can throw the shot off target. So while an SAO may “mask” poor technique, it should still be easier to perform better. Of course developing technique is better, but there’s a reason they’re popular for competition.
The drawback is that because theyre short and light, it doesn’t take a lot of input to fire. So it can be a safety concern. This is why you see SAO offerings almost always include a Thumb Safety. Double/Single and Striker fired triggers were designed to be heavier triggers to improve safety for duty use without using a manual safety which has merit because they’re able to be drawn and fired quickly with minor training and you don’t have to worry in a stressful situation that you’d forget to switch off a manual safety.
Because they have a lighter pull weight you can fire them faster, but being single action has no bearing on recoil whatsoever. That’s entirely on the design of the rest of the gun.
Tommygun1921@reddit
SAO like 1911's and 2011's is the perfect design for a race gun because the trigger moves straight back to get a mechanically better trigger pull, keeps the gun on target better basically. Â
Sa/da can have equally great triggers but the trigger rocks on a pin causing mechanical forces the can cause bad shots.
Mechanical being the way your finger moves the trigger.Â
betelgeuse_3x@reddit
A Glock is not a single action/ single action only firearm. It is a double action striker fired firearm. Single action means the trigger performs a single action (release of the hammer), like a cowboy revolver. In this case you must pull the hammer manually before pulling the trigger. Pulling the hammer rotates the cylinder.
Double action means the trigger performs two actions (3 for revolvers); retracting the hammer and releasing it (rotating cylinder if a revolver).
Recoil is a product of cartridge, barrel, frame, and slide weight and composition.
The trigger travel on a striker fired pistol is the same for every round fired. On DA/SA the first trigger pull travel is long because it is acts as a double action, drawing the hammer all the way back and releasing it, but on each round after, the slide, while retracting to eject and load another round, forces the hammer into the locked/ready position, the trigger doesn’t need to retract the hammer, just release it, so the trigger travel is short.
Personally, I shoot much better with a SA/DA. But every person, like every gun, is different.
Realistic_Guava9117@reddit (OP)
I wasn’t saying Glock is single action, I was just saying it’s all i’ve had up until now. I just purchased a 226 X5. Gotcha that makes sense on the recoil it’s just in the videos i’ve watched on 2011s for example, guys are always like this is softer & more accurate than a DA/SA.
As far as the first shot on a DA/SA, I thought if you cocked the hammer manually the first shot would be single action? Essentially is a DA/SA not simply a single action handgun with double action capabilities for the first shot?
betelgeuse_3x@reddit
2011s like a Stacatto, for example are DA/SA. Yes, absolutely you can manually retract and lock the hammer on a DA/SA and the trigger pull would be shorter.
SA is by definition either a revolver or a single shot firearm.
There is no scenario in which a single action would perform “better,” because it requires a manual retraction of the hammer after every shot.
1rubyglass@reddit
Single action guns can have hammers that are automatically reset by the slide. It doesn't have to be manually cocked every time.
piezer8@reddit
It really comes down to preference and what you want to do with the firearm. SA or DA aren’t levels of goodness or grades of performance. Just different mechanical actions that have their own characteristics. Maybe someone likes shooting one over the other for whatever reasons. It doesn’t really have anything to do with recoil.
Severe-Cow-8646@reddit
The issue most people have is transitioning from the lighter single action pull on the trigger to get bang and the heavier double action trigger pull to get bang. The single action pull is much easier to master and control than the double action. The problem is pronounced in double action revolers as without manually clicking the hammer, every pull of the trigger is double action. And most factory double/single action pull weights are ~13lb and ~4 to 5. A lot of difference and shooting the double action well takes a lot of practice and control.
DashMcGee@reddit
I much prefer a single-action trigger. Most have minimal uptake and creep, and break cleanly and at a low weight. I do not like SA/DA because I want consistency. SA allows for a single uniform motion for the first round and all subsequent rounds.
There is a big difference in the experience of using a Glock or any other striker-fired gun, although rumor has it that CZ makes a really good striker. A Glock trigger is mushy. Check out a 1911. They are perfect - the balance, the trigger... it's so sweet. The other awesome thing about the 1911 (most of them, anyway) is that the .45 caliber ACP round is softer shooting than a 9mm because it is slower, It also doesn't hurt that a 1911 is typically a heavier gun, which does absorb some recoil.
If you can, go to a range that let's you borrow or rent guns. CHeck out a 1911 and/or any other guns they have that are other than striker-fired. It comes down to personal preference and how much you practice. I have been going to the range once per week for the last few months, and am practicing with two different 9mm, one of which is a hammer-fired single-action and the other of which is striker-fired. Neither affords me the pleasure and accuracy of a 1911 in .45. You can get 1911s in 9mm or 10mm if you want. Some 1911s in 9mm are called 2011s. Those tend to be double-stack. An old-school 1911 magazine typically holds 7-8 rounds, but you can get extended mags if you want. Unless you plan to be in some wicked combat shootouts, you only need a few rounds from a .45, or any other gun for that matter, for self-defense.
No-Performance37@reddit
Depends on your use case but most DA/SA guns will be shooting in SA most of the time anyway.
smithywesson@reddit
There's so much complexity to your SAO vs striker vs DA/SA questions that it's almost impossible to answer. There is so much variation from platform to platform within each of those categories that it's hard to give a broad answer. IMO anything priced beyond "good" striker fired handguns comes with a steep drop off regarding the ratio of price to performance.
2WheelSuperiority@reddit
$900ish including tax. Imo. From a carry gun.
Comp guns are maybe a slightly different story.
betelgeuse_3x@reddit
Which can still get you into an HK VP9 or P30!