Work colleague called me a "bible basher" and now my book has gone missing - how to confront?
Posted by DatabaseMammoth9986@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 104 comments
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Adorable_Click_7071@reddit
Raise a grievance and then immediately notify ACAS. Then submit an employment tribunal claim for discrimination. Make sure you build a paper trail and document EVERYTHING.
SpaTowner@reddit
A book going missing isn’t exactly proof positive of discrimination.
Adorable_Click_7071@reddit
Calling someone a bible basher definitely is, though. The book going missing is just the icing on the cake! It’s not on OP to prove he was discriminated against, it’s on OP’s company to prove they haven’t discriminated.
SpaTowner@reddit
https://www.crosslandsolicitors.com/site/cases/Royal-Mail-Group-Ltd-v-Efobi-discrimination-burden-of-proof
So I think at this stage, the burden of proof is on OP. OP doesn’t know what has happened to their book, they assume it has been stolen in an act of harassment, but the only reason to link its absence to the person who called them a bible-basher is pure supposition.
OP doesn’t not know that the book wasn’t taken by someone else, or even if it was moved accidentally.
Being called a bible-basher once, might be considered harassment contributing to an uncomfortable workplace, but you can’t leap straight from that to industrial tribunal without first exhausting the employer’s internal reporting systems.
AndrewHinds67@reddit
You could forgive your trespasser, I guess? It's in the bible. As is turn the other cheek. Prove how much of a real Christian you really are. (I don't give a shit about downvotes).
sheepandlambs@reddit
I'm an atheist, and honestly people like that make me ashamed. Militant atheists are just as vile as militant theists.
Honestly you need to say something. It doesn't matter that he's more senior, that kind of workplace bullying is not acceptable. Mention it to your manager at the very least. Or mention it to other colleagues and drum up support.
GreenVim@reddit
Going forward, best not to discuss outside activities in the workplace. If anyone asks me about religion or politics I change the subject. People are judgmental simpletons.
sheepandlambs@reddit
They didn't ask about religion though. They asked about what OP did at the weekend, to which they gave an honest answer. No reason to assume they then went on at them about religion.
GreenVim@reddit
OK i will clarify. if anyone asks me a question where the answer involves religion or politics I change the subject. Never discuss is regardless how innocuous it starts out. That’s all i meant. I grasp the colleague didn’t ask about religion in this case.
sheepandlambs@reddit
No, but that's clearly what you were getting at, no matter how much you might now want to pretend otherwise.
I'm sorry you work in such a hate-filled office. But most of us work in environments where saying you went to church at the weekend won't cause World War 3.
GreenVim@reddit
Nope, i never was making that point because OP never gave that impression. I’m simply sharing the philosophy of drawing a line between business and personal because of how judgmental people can be.
Late_Manufacturer157@reddit
I wouldn’t worry about getting anyone trouble. That’s religious discrimination and is taken seriously. Does this same individual call Muslim colleagues ‘Quran bashers’?
Willsagain2@reddit
The comparison is uncalled for
DopeAsDaPope@reddit
Kinda proving the point though aren't you? People think it's okay to bash Christians but bashing people for being Muslim or Jewish would get you in some serious shit
ReallySmallFeet@reddit
Explain.
heypresto2k@reddit
They might. Does that make it right?
Late_Manufacturer157@reddit
I am insinuating that the person definitely not does not call Muslims Quran bashers.
TemporaryLucky3637@reddit
If you’re determined not to make it a big thing…
Firstly email yourself an account of what happened with the bible basher comment, the date and time it happened, who said what and who was present. Include the date and time you noticed your religious book missing. By emailing it you put a date and time stamp on your account in case you need this as evidence later.
Next, I’d send a group email to everyone in your office. Explain a book has gone missing from your desk that is of sentimental and monetary value. Ask that if anyone has taken it they return it.
If it’s not returned then I don’t think you have any option but to involve your manager if there’s no HR. I’d even consider reporting it to the police if the book is worth £200. Taking your belongings is beyond misguided banter and seems like you’re being targeted for something that as other commenters have said is a protected characteristic.
catetheway@reddit
Fantastic advice
PennyBunPudding@reddit
I wouldn't mention monetary value in the email just big up sentimentality.
Vequihellin@reddit
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Mentioning the monetary value of the book could provide them a motive to sell it on, or a justification for taking it that isn't harassment of a protected characteristic.
Sutraner@reddit
I disagree, I tiki bringing up the monetary value is more likely for them to return it.
The person who nicked it probably didn't realise what it was actually worth, taking a £7 bible might not seem like a big deal but a £200 book very much is
Vequihellin@reddit
I suppose it depends on how you frame it. Because if you make it clear that the value of the item means you'll be reporting it to Police, then yeah, that might prompt them to return it. Just saying 'this is a very expensive book and I'd like it back' probably wouldn't have the same impact as, say, 'Given the age and value of this item, I have no choice but to report this theft to the police for insurance purposes'.
EmuSuccessful2766@reddit
Yeah, it could possibly be seen as religious discrimination too if OP wanted to get serious about it.
Jaded_Leg_46@reddit
Why would you take a missal or other to work, especially one that expensive? If someone reads a religious it infront of other people, leaves it where it can openly be seen, some would argue that is shoving religion in people's faces, even if you were doing it on your own time during a break. You can't gauge another person's reaction to religion so a general rule of thumb is to leave religion at home where it can be observed in private. If having a religious book tucked away in a draw helps through just knowing it's there is more than acceptable.
Pin a notice to the wall saying something along the lines of ' sentimental family heirloom lost in the office, if anyone finds it please let me know as there is a reward' If the book is suddenly returned with no explanation or witnesses buy a tin of biscuits for the staff room, if nothing else it will make them feel guilty.
Alternatively you could have a word with St Anthony and hope for the best.
Moeen_Ali@reddit
This has got to be the absolute worst post I have ever read on Reddit and that's really saying something with all the nonsense you see on here.
Jaded_Leg_46@reddit
You need to be Catholic to get most of the context.
Moeen_Ali@reddit
No you don't
Jaded_Leg_46@reddit
Yes you do because no Catholic would ever take a book worth that amount to a place completely unnecessary for. If OP was Catholic they would have understood what I was saying, just as other Catholics have. The post is rage bait
OlafPetersen@reddit
Not sane people.
Jaded_Leg_46@reddit
Sadly it's the political climate we're in. I don't have a problem with other people's religion as long as they don't try to convert me or preach it or weaponise it.
The problem is that people do the opposite and weaponise their choice not have a religion, not having a religion is a protected characteristic as is having a religion. The other problem is that the Equalities Act 2010 says that you can't prevent another person from practicing their faith or being discriminated because of it. OP has clearly been discriminated for being Catholic by one colleague unfortunately for OP they don't have any proof. An old leather bound book in good condition, especially a religious book would sell quickly so the book going missing could be theft and not religiously motivated.
Rockpool500@reddit
If you ask around who took it...the person with very dilated eyes will be the thief.
ChanchoDeLosEsteros@reddit
I’d suggest it’s unwise to keep valuable personal items at work - irrespective of their nature. I’m also a Catholic and spent my childhood (8 - 13) checking for bombs under my mum’s car (also Catholic - give you one guess as to my dad’s line of work 😜). I have also been personally insulted just for my denomination. While the person saying “turn the other cheek” may have meant it facetiously, you should keep that in mind. The potential theft is more important…..I wouldn’t want to work with thieves or bigots of any variety.
Vequihellin@reddit
Not wishing to come across as 'victim blaming' but I think you're right that keeping valuable personal items at work is a risk. Like you say, it doesn't really matter what the nature of the item is, if it's worth something, then it's best left at home.
Of course if OP brought it in to read during lunch and it was stolen during their work day, then this puts a slightly different spin on it as whoever took it would have specifically waited until OP was afk to steal it (as opposed to someone rifling through their desk out of hours, or while they were on leave), which would be premeditated and targeted (as opposed to a possible opportunistic theft by someone with out of hours access to the office).
OlafPetersen@reddit
Tricky problem. It's quite possible these two incidents are unconnected, but both need to be addressed. The priority is obviously to get the book back, so an email to the office explaining its origin and that you would like it back, and will escalate the situation if needed if it's not returned within a specific timeframe, is probably sensible. Maybe suggest that whoever took it leave it somewhere that's not highly visible, give yourself the best chance of getting it back.
Does your office have cleaners? It might also be worth contacting them urgently. It could have been accidentally swept into a bin bag, or could have been stolen by someone outside your company (and that's probably the only other people with easy access).
If that fails to prompt the return, speak to your manager and then the police. A second email to the group ("Last chance, I'm due to speak to the police tomorrow lunchtime if it's not returned to me by then.") probably won't do much, but it might work if the person who took it doesn't think you're serious about taking it further.
The other incident is trickier. Personally, I'd leave it for the moment, and here's why. If it is the person who shouted that also took your book, bringing extra heat on them for their idiotic comment isn't going to help get the book back. Second, if you report it after the incident, it might look like a vindictive reporting targeted at someone you think was responsible for the book, and that doesn't do you any favours. And third, if they do it again you can still report them then, and if they don't do it again that's about the best you could probably hope for by reporting it anyway.
Either way, document everything, off-site in some format where you can demonstrate times and dates if needed. Note witness names if other people were there, and include as much relevant detail as you can.
Paull7@reddit
Report it immediately. Not being funny but if you were muslim they wouldn't do it
pulledporktaco@reddit
They would, people get assaulted for being Muslim all the time
HallowedAndHarrowed@reddit
Source?
OlafPetersen@reddit
Seriously>
jady115@reddit
Ahh so you have never heard of The News
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
If they're cunty enough to do this to a Catholic you can be damn sure they'd do it to a Muslim too
HallowedAndHarrowed@reddit
Nah, people are scared of that. Catholics and Christian’s generally seen as an easy target, which is why comedians make jokes about them but not Islam to the same degree. And I’m atheist, so got no dog in the fight.
Willsagain2@reddit
That is an uncalled for comparison.
Leonardo_McVinci@reddit
What is the book? Just out of interest
Did_OJ_Simpson_do_it@reddit
Report him, he's a thief and a bigot. We can't keep letting these militant atheists get away with this sort of behaviour.
GreenVim@reddit
I’ve not seen a single atheist in this thread condone what happened. Careful with that brush.
SpaTowner@reddit
You have no idea whether this individual stole the book, or even if the book was stolen rather than scooped up with files and misplaced, or if she me accident befell it that someone is scared to own up to etc.
Beneficial-Data6892@reddit
This is an act that often results in instant dismissal. Manager/HR will sort it .
GreenVim@reddit
The problem is proving it. Do we really want to live in a world where an accusation results in instant dismissal? Because that process is absolutely abused in non-religious related contexts.
If there is no proof see if OP can record a conversation where they ask what happened to the book and see if the work college self incriminates. If they do, great, kick them out the company.
SonOfGreebo@reddit
In the UK, it's considered seriously unprofessional to discuss personal religious beliefs at work.
Approach your colleague and ask them to stop making these so-called "jokey" comments about you, because it is personally upsetting and professionally rude and unacceptable.
Reflect honestly on whether you are talking and sharing anything at all about your personal religious experiences during work time.
shinealittlelove@reddit
In what way is discussing religious beliefs seriously unprofessional?
SonOfGreebo@reddit
Workplace conflict is inappropriate.
Because people in the UK under the age of 60 overwhelmingly hold non-religious/agnostic beliefs. They dont think organised religion is necessary as a social movement; and they don't believe that you HAVE to have religious beliefs to be a morally good person.
As a result, people in the UK are likely to be wary that a person talking a lot about their own religious beliefs can easily tip over into EITHER a) the religious person declaring a moral judgement and disapproval of people who do not share their religion
AND / OR b) becomes a route to "recruiting" work colleagues to their own brand of religion.
As a parallel example: In a workplace, it would be very inappropriate for one person to try to recruit their workmates to pay into that person's MLM pyramid scheme. Same with religion.
It would also be inappropriate to talk AT WORK about a colleague as being immoral, shameful or wicked just because they supported a different football team. Same with religion.
heypresto2k@reddit
Is that what’s happening here? Stick to the topic. OP didn’t shove their beliefs down anyone’s throats. I don’t care if you don’t believe, you also don’t have to shove your disbelief down the rest of our throats.
FloydEGag@reddit
I don’t think telling someone you went to church when asked what you did at the weekend is pushing religion on anyone. It doesn’t sound like OP was proselytising at work, so there’s no issue. The issue is the colleague being mean to them for being religious. Just because you don’t believe in it doesn’t mean it’s ok to push your opinions about it on someone, any more than it is to proselytise. I’m not religious but I wouldn’t be offended or annoyed by a colleague saying they’d been to church when talking about our weekends! And I wouldn’t tell them they were wrong or bad for being religious. Live and let live!
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
I've been told off for discussing religion before and I do think it's meant to be a bit of a no-go topic, but fucking hell. Imagine turning this around on OP. She's not even the one who initiated the conversation!
theotherquantumjim@reddit
SonOfGreebo@reddit
Yes, and rightly so.
That's why I said 1. Confront this person and tell hem it's rude and ask them to stop.
rybnickifull@reddit
This is what HR is for though.
pajamakitten@reddit
Saying that you went to church at the weekend is hardly a major social etiquette breach though. It is not like OP is walking around and saying all his colleagues are going to hell.
Regular-Ad1814@reddit
Op literally said he does not actively start conversations about his faith, if asked a question he answers honestly.
It would be much worse to either lie about what you did over the weekend or refuse to tell your colleague what you did when asked.
Answering what did you do at the weekend with, "I spent time at my local church as I help out there at weekends. How about you, did you get up to anything nice?" Is a perfectly acceptable and normal response.
DefStillAlive@reddit
I think it was the bully that was being called unprofessional, not the OP
SonOfGreebo@reddit
Yes, which is why I suggested the OP confront the person calling them a "bible basher".
heypresto2k@reddit
Absolutely vile. Please talk to your manager and like another person said, write yourself an email detailing everything. I don’t know why or how people think it’s funny especially when religious people aren’t bothering them. This is NOT banter. This is theft and abuse.
Painal-Performer-69@reddit
I agree with most of the advice - check and see how much it costs to replace the book - get three prices from different vendors.
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
Stealing is not okay under any circumstance and this is (believe it or not) a hate crime (discrimination of a protected characteristic) under the Equality Act.
Send an email to the whole company explaining that your book has gone missing and how much you value it (sentimentally). Explain how grateful you'd be if it's returned.
Hopefully it magically reappears.
Whether it reappears or not, send an email to both your managers, and explain the earlier incident.
If nothing is done, then speak to ACAS, because I'm not joking that you have a serious case of discrimination here.
TheNathanNS@reddit
I believe all religions fall under the Equality Act 2010, and while it can be hard to prove the book was taken as an antagonistic act against your faith, if the guy did steal it, I'm sure it's still worth a bollocking at the least since it's still theft.
Report it if you can, and if you remember where your book was, ie in your desk, ask to see the cameras.
ukbot-nicolabot@reddit
The Serious flair means top-level comments must be a genuine good faith attempt at answering the question.
PaintedYogurt@reddit
What would Jesus do?
AskUK-ModTeam@reddit
A top level comment (one that is not a reply) should be a good faith and genuine attempt to answer the question.
Crafty-Strength1626@reddit
Or Mathew , Luke or john
RuachReader@reddit
No Mark love?
Crafty-Strength1626@reddit
Nah , nor Judas I've heard he's a bit of a dick
LowAioli3870@reddit
So flipping their desk over is an option?
Gold-Mixture-7824@reddit
That would be an ecumenical matter
AskUK-ModTeam@reddit
A top level comment (one that is not a reply) should be a good faith and genuine attempt to answer the question.
HotFuzzFC@reddit
FYI, this is actionable in the Employment Tribunal under the Equality Act.
DTH2001@reddit
As others have said, speak to your boss. If they do nothing then go to ACAS
https://www.acas.org.uk/
WideGassySea@reddit
You’ve not explained the book bit
DatabaseMammoth9986@reddit (OP)
Updated
Stifton@reddit
Do you have manager you can speak to? I'd have a serious word and talk about that comment and the value of the book and tell them you're considering calling the police if it's not back on your desk promptly. I'm not a religious person in the slightest but this is taking the piss, I'd be absolutely fuming if any of my personal items went missing, especially after a snide remark like that
No_Ring_3348@reddit
In light of your restrictions, the only way to address this is to confront this fucker directly and demand your stuff back. This will take a level of controlled aggression that you may not be comfortable or familiar with applying, especially in a workplace where there is a negative power differential between you and the bigoted thief, so I would gently suggest escalating the situation within work. Pick the option you are least uncomfortable.
UnafraidScandi@reddit
I'm not even a little religious, but this is so out of line. Everyone is entitled to their faith and to practice in peace.
Tell your manager and if they won't do anything, report it to the police as a hate crime.
Competitive_Pen7192@reddit
Is the colleague 12 or something?! I haven't heard that crap being spouted since I was at school.
FelisCantabrigiensis@reddit
If the company is so small that it's got no HR, then report it as theft to the MD/CEO.
Dissidant@reddit
I'm not religious but that is completely inappropriate behaviour, its a workplace.
Respect that you might not be a confrontational spirit but you need to let your manager know what is going on.
Never know your work place might have CCTV where the desks are
Left a link in case you get messed about which might interest you
https://www.acas.org.uk/religion-or-belief-discrimination
Bright_Spark_UK@reddit
Not religious, but this is not cool.
I’m sorry 🤗
stellardecay@reddit
I'm really curious as to what the book is. Could a cleaner have moved it?
TheSecretIsMarmite@reddit
Tell your manager. Then tell them that unless the book shows up the next morning undamaged you will be reporting the theft and the harassment as a hate crime to the police.
Necessary-Nobody8138@reddit
I feel sorry for you. Get the bigot sacked
RainbowPenguin1000@reddit
Ask them directly. If you don’t get it back go to the head of the company as there’s no HR.
It’s both stealing and potential discrimination. The head of the company would take immediate action rather than risk a lawsuit.
Auselessbus@reddit
Speak to your manager/boss if there’s HR; involve your union or you could go to the police and file a claim on the book.
HotelPuzzleheaded654@reddit
Considering you more than likely made this up, go about your day and get a hobby.
AdEmbarrassed3066@reddit
That is awful... What is the book? If I can find one for you I'll send you it (I'm a book collector)
Milita_leorio@reddit
unfortunately think this might be a low effort post to karma fam
DaveL16@reddit
Well it’s not really working
FREESHAVOCADO0@reddit
Speak to your boss or higher as there's no HR. This needs dealing with.
Deathskitten@reddit
Report it to a manager and/or HR, you don'tknow it was specifically this person but you do know it was taken by someone at work. I'd also report the comments you've been getting about your religion as it's starting to sound like harassment.
christianjwaite@reddit
It’s a protected characteristic, they’re in a lot of shit if that goes to HR or even the police.
What should you do? Go to your manager and say you’ve had a few incidents of “someone” insulting your faith and now your bible has gone missing.
Say you don’t want to take it any further but want the bible back and for it to stop.
RepublicofPixels@reddit
Make a formal complaint through your work place's published procedures because you're experiencing harassment based on a protected characteristic.
https://www.acas.org.uk/religion-or-belief-discrimination/making-and-handling-complaints
Sergeant_Fred_Colon@reddit
Straight to HR tell them you're being bullied due to you religion.
yeeyeevee@reddit
religion is a protected characteristic. do you have a HR or “People” department you can speak to? or someone at their level or higher that you can raise this with?
Upbeat_Cheetah3921@reddit
Turn the other cheek
Eoin_McLove@reddit
Jump straight to speaking to HR.
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