Phoneix approach
Posted by phucursofa@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 105 comments
Does anybody else hate dealing with Phoneix approach or is it just me? Every time I fly into this damn valley I do not enjoy the experience.
Happy-Table-9515@reddit
Maybe they’re salty because you misspell Phoenix?
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Woah woah woah who said that
Happy-Table-9515@reddit
Someone who can spell Phoenix?
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I can spell phoneix
Happy-Table-9515@reddit
Can you spell blocked?
AckerHerron@reddit
American ATC in general are unprofessional jerks.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
USA USA USA USA USA
protobrink3@reddit
Airspace with one of the highest concentrations of flight training ops in the country. Along with 95% of the year being clear skies, means majority of time they are dealing with a massive amount of VFR slow movers going through/under the bravo. They are doing their best.
billofbong0@reddit
Norcal/Socal approach are the same and those guys are constantly friendly, patient, and professional.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Bingo. I was a way shitter of a pilot in a way bigger and busier sector than PHX and I don’t have the same complaint.
Helpful-Lion-6316@reddit
I wonder if the controllers need to maintain proficiency with IFR separation skills like we do with IFR currency and how they do that when based on Arizona.
Approach_Controller@reddit
I'll be honest with you. It IS a bit of a wake up going from an extended period of one from or another and visuals to ILSs and or another flow.
Usually that takes me a plane or two to adjust fully, but I see way more then 3 IMC days a year so... who knows.
capn_davey@reddit
Hard meh. They either need to provide the same level of VFR service as the rest of the country or deny radar service as appropriate to workload. It’s a bait and switch and worse than “unable” the way they do it.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
They are !
CessnaMir@reddit
I fly a variety of jets out of all the airports in the east valley and PHX. Phoenix 99% of the time is phonemail if you act like a professional. I've been cleared into the bravo in non-conventional ways while skirting around the bravo in a jet, they really do try their best. I think they are often over-saturated with little airplanes and the sheer volume of them yeeting around/under the bravo and just can't handle the volume. Now, ABQ center I dislike very much, but usually Phoenix helps me out after ABQ screws me over. Some of the guys/girls are better than others, sure, but most of the time I have nothing but praises to sing for them.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
When they are happy I like em. Guess I can say the same about my mom
BMFC@reddit
I say this about your mom all the time too.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
😂😂
CerebralSlate@reddit
I’ve flown in and through there several times in the last year. My experience was excellent. One woman controller on Approach is one of the best I’ve ever dealt with. When landing and departing KPHX specifically, I found all controllers to be very accommodating to the fact I was in a small plane. The only quirk in the area is a controller at Luke AFB who wants you to depart Buckeye, BXK, on the 100 radial when he knows you’re on a GPS flight plan.
Warm_Scientist4928@reddit
DON’T OVERSHOOT FINAL! you pilots are so stupid that we’re going to have to remind you in every damn ATIS for years after we had one incident (That’s how it comes across)
EdBasqueMaster@reddit
There have been way more than one incident from people overshooting final.
Warm_Scientist4928@reddit
Not disagreeing with you, but why don’t all of the other parallel runway airport ATIS’s have this, or why is the overshoot so common HERE?
Approach_Controller@reddit
Because common practice at virtually every other airport running simus is to maintain altitude on the join until another form of separation exists.
You dont hear that on the ATIS where I am because if you overshoot your still separated vertically. A little bit different when you and that Airbus filling your windscreen are the same altitude. And yeah, we have overshoots here too, but they dont generate RAs or make the news because a spoonful of positive control keeps the NMACs at bay
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Small space I think there’s a lot of airports here it’s amazing actually
takeoffconfig@reddit
Had an RA going in there last year when someone on the other side overshot, my only one yet.
rkba260@reddit
Yet to get one in PHX, SFO prior to their new ops was common, and DEN still occurs... especially when landing north.
AtariFerrariNH@reddit
Hooked on phoneix worked for me!
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I like you
AtariFerrariNH@reddit
I like me too!
soulscratch@reddit
I wish you'd like his message about Phoneix!
EmergencyTime2859@reddit
I learned to fly in Phoenix and on one of my solo cross countries the guy on approach was being such an ass and so rude I cancelled flight following because I was tired of listening to him.
I’ve only had one Phoenix Approach controller not be a miserable person
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I try to give them grace most the time. The bigger the plane I fly in the worse it gets and the less I can just go flight following at 5k. I got people in the back
rkba260@reddit
Never been to ORD or ANY NYC airport eh? PHX is tame compared to a testy ORD ground controller.
Wallphotography@reddit
When they start rattling off like 4 different taxi instructions in one go with no read back and they act surprised when people miss one instruction
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Yea. I think I got soft tbh
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
@ mod I think I checked it here. Please notice my lack of attitude
BigBadPanda@reddit
Three planes in front of me were given a base turn, asked to report traffic ahead in sight, then cleared for the visual. When I got my base turn, I read back the heading and said I had traffic and the field in sight and he lost it. “Did I ASK you to report traffic?!”
It was pretty funny.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Bingo. Snappy and rude. Seem stressed all the time. Gave me the wrong frequency 5 miles from the bravo. Came back got the wrong frequency after letting some stunt plane get within 3 miles same altitude of me. He said he never saw him. Brother I did.
BigBadPanda@reddit
PHX tower isn’t much better. I was doing IOE with a new hire and he was pretty far behind. The airport was dead and we got “line up and wait” really early. We were at least a football field and a half from the runway. I declined it and said we needed time. He comes back with professional pilots are ready at the runway. I told him professional pilots don’t let ATC rush them. When we are finally ready, he gives us line up and wait again and we sit on the runway for almost 5 minutes. I’m laughing my ass off and had to tell my confused new hire that ATC thought he was punishing a guy who gets paid by the minute.
throwaway642246@reddit
Boy you guys sure showed each other!
BigBadPanda@reddit
When you are effectively single pilot, in an airliner, and you’re not ready, it is what it is. Tower doesn’t get to chirp at me about professionalism.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
😂😂
Weasel474@reddit
Oh no, please don't make me over block, that'd be awful.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I am not hourly I’m 91 and 135. So it’s salary but you couldn’t punish me by keeping me in a plane in this life or the next. Our AC works
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
The punishing part ! It is so obvious when ATC is trying to punish us and I don’t get it. Why am I flying to TFD then all the way to PXR! I don’t have to I’m faster than most. Not all but I’m moving.
capn_davey@reddit
I mean, they’re super easygoing compared to NYC. But their procedures are hot steaming garbage.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Grew in the SFO bravo so I thought it was only them.
JasonThree@reddit
Also what's the deal with "report departing traffic in sight, maintain visual cleared for takeoff" how about you just slow down and give me a regular takeoff clearance. Im starting to hate all these airports that basically require visual approaches to get their sequencing to work.
Sage_Blue210@reddit
What specifically don't you like?
tomsawyerisme@reddit
Their tendency to slam dunk the shit out of us
Valid__Salad@reddit
shudders in northeast flying
capn_davey@reddit
Also this. There’s just poor service without an attitude in Phoenix :)
capn_davey@reddit
Eh, the SNA slam is hard to beat.
takeoffconfig@reddit
I did IOE in my first jet (no VNAV or auto throttle) in Phoenix and the amount of times I would be slam dunked, vectored off and back on the arrival, I was barely hanging on to the tail of the jet.
EdBasqueMaster@reddit
Damn I love that they slam dunk me. Means I get home 3 minutes quicker. I’ll take the short approach!
f1racer328@reddit
I’m based in PHX and I love it. No need to waste more time flying past the airport.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Dude ! I thought it was only me! I get slammed down Everytime. (3 for 3) and I don’t mind it if it’s just me. But I got people in the back and I don’t need them hating their life everytime we come in here.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Stressed ATC. Being rude terrible mix.
DankVectorz@reddit
Must be super stressful with 363 VFR days a year
trying_to_adult_here@reddit
Hahaha
Am dispatcher. I put an alternate on for PHX if there are clouds below 5000 feet. They can’t handle anything other than VFR.
(Their arrival rates are based on visual approaches and they need that 5000 foot ceiling. If they actually have to run ILS approaches, the arrival rate goes down and they hold. Some of my captains are chill and will take a split bingo to AZA and some panic and divert immediately, so it’s easier to carry the alternate.)
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
That’s our fault how ? Look i love my controllers they do a lot and maintain a lot. But i dont appreciate having my license in the hands of somebody pissed off before they came to work or neglecting a traffic call because I asked for lower to not get slammed. I’m sorry. They are in ac and I’m in the sky. Breathe and let’s keep it classy.
No-Brilliant9659@reddit
They’re talking about ATC having to deal with 363 days of VFR approaches being stressful, which it’s obviously not lol
jtyson1991@reddit
Whoosh
capn_davey@reddit
I used to go from the Tucson area to SDL and IWA in light jets and high performance pistons. It’s a bit of a kobiyashi maru scenario. Go IFR and get routed right through the (very stupid but don’t get me started there) “stack.” Or go VFR and get no class D transitions coordinated on flight following and no coordination with your destination. Do you know how fun it is getting told to squawk 1200 a mile before the SDL class D doing 200ish?
dodexahedron@reddit
This one. This ome so much. Like... I get that you have conflicting approach/departure paths for PHX and SDL. So...Sequence us better, then, so the occasional plane can cross? Coordinate with SDL a bit? It's not like the flight is a sudden surprise, and you know we are going to ask for the RNAV if we come from that direction, if we're at an IFR altitude.
Feel free to deny the 172 asking for the RWY 3 approaches on flight following when there are 9 jets on approach or 20 sequenced for departure across that way. But anyone who can get out of the way quickly enough? Let em through. And even the slow guy? He'll probably gladly accept a hold for you if it means he'll get to do what he asked for at the price of another 5 minutes of loggable time.
capn_davey@reddit
A couple jobs ago I went all over the country (and internationally) doing aircraft demos and transition training. I’ve never seen anyplace other than Phoenix that will bust a VFR on D airspace when on FF. It’s insane. I went Tucson to IWA on a 1200 squawk in a jet not talking to anyone as SOP after I figured out how much worse the other options were. That’s…not good.
twistenstein@reddit
I'm still fuzzy on how that's possible, and I've had to do remedial training for a pilot who did just that. He clipped the KDVT delta while departing KSDL on FF.
The answer I received from a supervisor I knew vs what was written in the book did not jive.
capn_davey@reddit
There isn’t a distinct FAR, the ATC manual can easily be broken with no consequences as anyone who’s flown around the NYC area can testify, and the “AIM isn’t regulatory” (unless the FAA wants to bust you). But every. other. place. coordinates. If you don’t have the manpower to do it, don’t take FF. It’s that easy. They want to be able to vector VFRs around and flick them away like the annoying boogers that too many controllers think any not-airline traffic is without actually providing any benefit to taking radar services.
twistenstein@reddit
I would not have expected coordination myself in that case, since that gap between the deltas was ~2nmi. Pilot should have had a plan already just for CYOA.
Now straight line flying where you can see what's about to happen 50 miles out? Definitely, and it's in their books.
capn_davey@reddit
That’s entirely why FF exists. Theoretically it’s best all around. The overall controlling agency that sees the big picture talks to you and coordinates with other facilities to either transition or vector away. But Phoenix is different.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Okay so I’m not going crazy. I’m not the most cookie cutter straight edge pilot out there. So I’m always a little taken aback when I run into a situation of not being accommodating or easy going because I’m easy going. So I thought.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Brother. I was in the TBM today going Mach Jesus in a decent right before the bravo and got the wrong frequency… keyed up no sound. No tag on the garmin immediately knew something was off. Came back and asked hey can I get that freq again. Guy goes oh ya. My bad I gave you the wrong one. After I read it back and switched.
AWACS_Bandog@reddit
Weird... I've been flying out of Phoenix for a while and never had an issue.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
In my years of operating in and out of the valley as a professional pilot, I have never had a single problem with ATC.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Happy for you then. I’m the problem. Is what I’ve learned today
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Maybe you're not as competent on the radios as you think?
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I ask that question occasionally. I could be better
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Most pilots would never think to log onto the internet and complain about a specific part of the ATC system. So yes this is all on you. Go fly in NYC, Mexico, France, UK, Ghana, Qatar, India, Brazil...
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
One day if the sky Gods allow I’d love to. I’ll be better for it.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I guess I’m not most pilots ?
a_provo_yakker@reddit
Yeah did all my CFI and II training here, instructed here, and most of my jet career here too. No biggie. In fact some time in the last year, the controllers all learned how to finally clear us to descend via for the rest of a visual. Instead of hand holding every arrival in through each fix and gate on an arrival. Runs real smooth.
TK3K216@reddit
Phoenix controllers are some of the best I’ve ever dealt with. Miss flying in the valley (just not in the summer)
uberklaus15@reddit
When you talk to them, do you pronounce it the way you spelled it here? Maybe that's making them grumpy, lol
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I’m missing the joke PPL break it down for me.
pballer2oo7@reddit
You misspelled Phoenix.
flying-ModTeam@reddit
/r/flying is intended to be a friendly and accepting place; check your ego at the door and take your snark and attitude elsewhere.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
No critical. Real world. Bar top conversations. Got it.
uberklaus15@reddit
If a light-hearted joke like that gets you this annoyed, I can see how you might get into it with Phoenix approach :)
They've always been nice to me. You get what you give, I suppose.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Oh yay the first person that wants to argue with me on this thread boy I been waiting for you
uberklaus15@reddit
I'm flattered, but I have nothing to argue about with you. Have a nice evening
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
And yes it’s spelled wrong. I fly planes not read books.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Damn nobody has thought I don’t need a book to fly a plane. Tough crowd.
pballer2oo7@reddit
I've never had an issue.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
I’m bout 7 beers deep on a two day layover. Please give me a reason. Smart asses. I love aviation and the people involved however. I don’t like snarky. Know it alls that think they bigger than the program because their whole personality is being a pilot. Touch some grass and talk to somebody face to face. Safe flight bubbas
Icy-North9888@reddit
Most easygoing controllers IMO, if you want to talk to some real assholes go to IWA
sniffddyyuh@reddit
It’s just you man- some of the best controllers in the US
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Keep zooming that Lear around big dog. If a seat opens up I’d love an opportunity.
aftcg@reddit
I've always had fine work from them. 121 and 91. I fly to DVT IFT 91 in my Baron about 6x a year. I always tell them I'm new to the area and get my hand held all the way to the tie down.
However, I know ATC is getting their asses handed to them from every way. It can't be easy being a controller these days, and there's no relief in sight.
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
See that I completely understand. I know they are getting their asses handed to them day in and day out. But I don’t go home and kick my dog or yell at my girl because I had a shitty day at work. ATC is increasingly coming at us a lil more day by day.
BasilProfessional09@reddit
I’ve had good experiences with them. Sure you’ll get slam dunked on the visual but that’s how they keep so many plane landing and there’s rarely any congestion delays. Figure it out
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Wilco
AGroAllDay@reddit
The controllers are some of the friendliest in the US—so no
phucursofa@reddit (OP)
Okay
noshling@reddit
Just don’t talk to them lol
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Does anybody else hate dealing with Phoneix approach or is it just me? Every time I fly into this damn valley I do not enjoy the experience.
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.