Suggesting an airline career to the younger generation

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takeoffconfig@reddit

People discouraged me when the outlook was even more gloom (08-11) and I decided not to pursue it after my discovery flight. I did something else and couldn't stop watching airplanes in the sky and wishing I was up there. I changed careers in my late twentys and I'm flying a jet now but I can't help to think about my career had I just blocked out the noise, could probably be on my 5th wife and second porsche by now.

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citpilot1@reddit

In that window of time I know of several who never touched a plane again. I don’t think you are in any different of a place. That was a dog eat dog world topped off with the ridiculous 1500 hour knee jerk reaction. It might have took you the same amount of time to touch a jet regardless.

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vagasportauthority@reddit

There are a lot of careers that will get you into 6 figure debt with no immediate high paying jobs. This isn’t unique to becoming an airline pilot.

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HighRiskInv143@reddit

I’m not doing it simply because with the way AI is advancing, I’d give this field 30-40 years before were replaced. It’d be hard for them to have a full career. I try to live in reality, they are working hard to replace us and the younger generation has already shown signs of being ok with no pilots as long as they get cheaper prices (we all know that’ll only be temporary).

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sraykub@reddit

Airline pilots will almost certainly still be around for the next century or so if for no other reason than insurance, liability, and psychological reasons. I imagine new build airliners will be totally capable of self-flight, troubleshooting etc but the job will still exist even if only in a diminished systems monitoring capacity.

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Several-Village5814@reddit

Next century? Do you realize how fast Ai is progressing?

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HighRiskInv143@reddit

Just let them be in denial, I choose to live in reality. Flight engineers thought the same thing.

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

50 years ago it would be unimaginable that you could be flying 400+ people on a twinjet, flown by two pilots (plus relief), more than 6 hours away from the nearest suitable airport at one engine speed. And yet most of that became a reality mere 2 decades later.

People are in complete denial with statements like "we'll still have two pilots in every airline 100 years from now". Is it possible? Perhaps. Likely? Who knows. Guaranteed? No way.

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vagasportauthority@reddit

50 years ago was 1976 and the 737 was already flying and certified with 2 pilots and designs for the 767 were in the works with 2 pilots.

ETOPs was already being considered etc. This reality was well in the works 50 years ago.

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HighRiskInv143@reddit

Nothing is guaranteed but technology moves fast, hence why I tell my younger co-workers to save every dollar they can, because the good times can come to an end quickly, especially in this career.

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

That's a great advice, and I tell FOs who are about to upgrade to keep living as if they're still getting their current salary, and save/invest the rest.

We work in a very fragile industry.

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zkoolie@reddit

Even so, pilots will be one of the last jobs to go.

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HighRiskInv143@reddit

I’d like to think this, but when competitors overseas move towards these changes first and successfully, the companies here will need to be able to compete on pricing.

A century is quite the optimistic outlook considering we already remotely control aircraft in the military without issue.

Only thing I can really agree with is that insurance won’t be happy with the changes without at least a decade of data on the safety of that.

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Face88888888@reddit

“Without issue”

What? Those things crash all the time. Definitely at a much higher rate than would be acceptable for an airliner full of people.

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HighRiskInv143@reddit

They are mission aircraft, not point A to point B

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Face88888888@reddit

That makes 0 difference in the context here.

Going point A to point B, or burning holes in the sky orbiting over something… we are still not controlling them in the military “without issue”

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Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit

we already remotely control aircraft in the military without issue.

Which have zero humans on board and are the subject of plenty of memes/jokes regarding how often they crash, break, or malfunction. Not to mention they're quite literally intended to be destroyed with no consequences.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit

If they’re like 7, it’s fine.

If they’re like 50. Probably would keep that thought to myself

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WritingNecessary79@reddit

curious… how about 22

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit

Don’t go into debt to do it.

But if you’re happy just flying for fun, then sure. You ain’t getting anywhere fast though

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No-Advertising-1402@reddit

I’d like to offer a more optimistic perspective and if you have a counterpoint I’d gladly listen to it because admittedly I’m young and don’t know shit. I fully agree with the “don’t go into debt” point, but don’t most careers worth doing have the “you aren’t going anywhere fast” caveat? Every career I can think of that has high earning potential and relatively decent QoL can take years to get to a point like that.

Seems like the typical path for most careers is: years of schooling (and money) for a degree -> job if you’re lucky-> climb the ladder over a couple years while not making much starting out -> MAYBE feel fulfilled. Why not just go through the similar path for a career you dream of like flying, IF YOU CAN*.

I understand the risks of successfully getting a career in aviation in the first place but I don’t know mannn everything else seems like it sucks too for its own reasons. I’d rather risk the biscuit for a dream job versus grind away in an office reminding myself of “what could have been” every time I see an airplane.

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Mrs_Fagina@reddit

Keep in mind that there are just not many airline pilot openings nationwide.

There are more doctors in the US than airline pilots. And you’re competing with a huge surplus of pilots.

Here’s the big takeaway: Any business degree or other field you can go into business, project management, finance, sales, etc.

There are a ton of entry level positions. Pilot is literally just…Pilot. You can’t pivot. And there’s no lateral movement. You move, you start over. It’s that simple.

Waiting for jobs in the aviation sector means you’re making 15-20k per year, if employed at all. A dream business job you can bounce around and be making six figures before you even sniff that gig.

So when we tell people to be careful, it’s because this is an “all eggs in one basket” career. It doesn’t transfer. Guys who get furloughed from a $300k job sell car insurance for 50k a year because they have nothing else.

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vagasportauthority@reddit

There are more doctors in the U.S. than there are airline pilots in the world.

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garden_speech@reddit

It is kind of wild how the union means that there can be a massive surplus of pilots with lots of hours who want to take a pilot job at the majors, and the salaries are super high still

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WritingNecessary79@reddit

got it. in an unique situation where i could get my flight training done via military aero clubs for much cheaper than the normal rates and i get quite a bit of money back from university refunds given my school is covered

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poser765@reddit

So yeah. I think I would. Whatever are seeing now is not catastrophic hiring. It’s normal hiring. We have a whole generation of pilots with whom 9/11 is not bling memory. And for a lot of them all they’ve known is the post covid hiring feast. This industry fluctuates wildly between fears and famine. The good news is those fluctuations are only 5-10 years long. Jobs will be there. Then they won’t. Then they will again. This is the industry.

My biggest concern is ai and automation. Even then, though it’s a far off more abstract concern. I’ve got 20 years left and I think my career is safe. If my 8 year old son decides to be a pilot I’m not as confident but still think he will have an ok career. Now if he has a kid that’s to be an airline pilot… well I’m a bit more dubious that the career will exist in anything remotely the way it does now.

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Key_Math8192@reddit

I agree with your thoughts on ai and automation, but that is true for probably 70% of jobs. Some sooner than later (my brother is a marketing copywriter who is pretty much out of the job already), but something will really have to get figured out there to avoid having your kid’s kid’s entire generation and all of those that follow fighting over low wage unskilled labor jobs.

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JT-Av8or@reddit

Nope. It’s one of the few jobs that’ll still be around in 50 years. The hiring waves don’t change in any industry, peaks and lulls.

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Healthy-Sort-7293@reddit

Besides the market which has cycles all the time, I would be more worried about automation and the eventual removal of pilots from the cockpit. It is a tough sell to the public but they will go from 2 to 1 pilot and then eventually to zero. Its the future.

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DevLikeMikhail@reddit

open their eyes to more than just airlines perhaps. every airline pilot i know absolutely hates their job and misses the days of medevacs, janky cargo runs and “real” flying. there’s a lot of high paying jobs out there that don’t involve just sitting and monitoring screens.

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fallingfaster345@reddit

Yikes, where do they work so I know not to apply there? Every airline pilot I know is usually the first to tell you they love their job! Myself included.

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findquasar@reddit

There’s been human pilots in almost every sci-fi show I’ve ever watched or series I’ve ever read.

The job of a future pilot may not look the same or be flying the same, or even similar, aircraft, but I believe there will still be roles and uses for pilots in the future.

I don’t see anything wrong with encouraging people to consider aviation as long as we are honest about it.

Some of the kids visiting your flight deck may end up having the basis for the skill sets we haven’t fathomed yet.

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thrawoweyey@reddit

There are some old sci-fi movies that imagined a future with elevator and telephone operators

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Top-Intern4073@reddit

The Aviation industry and especially the Airlines, have always been cyclic. It usually depends on factors that we have little control over. About the time one gives up, suddenly there’s a big demand for more qualified crews.
Those who become doctors love to be doctors. It’s their passion. Those who love to fly usually have that same passion. No one talks us into it. It’s our decision. If you give up that goal, you have 0% change for success. The key is be ready because change will come.

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Warm_Scientist4928@reddit

I discourage unless it’s an extreme case where someone just can’t see themselves doing anything else

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Ancient_Mai@reddit

How long have you been an airline pilot? Talk to some old dudes. Things were way worse in the 2000s.

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Sad_pilot12@reddit

Need to also encourage them to be huge on networking and for the love of God tell all of them to make sure they know their family medical history and to get checked for any of those things that could ruin their career. Wish someone on my family told me we had HCM so I wouldn’t be $90k in debt with only 500hrs and a CFI-I and Commercial cert to show for it

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tundragoose@reddit

I tell people it's never a bad time to get into aviation, if you think you have a passion for it. Diving into it being laser focused on one particular outcome and having no desire to do anything else, you're probably not going to have a great time.

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120SR@reddit

I’ve dwelled on this a good bit and unfortunately flown with out of touch captains that have had a cushy airline jobs for decades that claim there’s a pilot shortage because they read one headline 5 years ago. I try to foster an interest in airplanes and not being a pilot, that’s the biggest red flag I see with influencers and new pilots.

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MultiMillionMiler@reddit

I just wish people would stop exaggerating how easy it is. I can't afford to keep taking flight lessons atm so am doing PPL ground school and boy is it difficult to remember and confusing. I honestly don't understand how any pilot can process all that stuff off the top of their head while flying the plane. Also the speed deprivation aspect with airline pilots crazy random schedules while away (even if it's only 1/2 or 1/3 of the month..etc still does damage). Naturally gifted pilots/studying geniuses aren't representative of the average population and biased people should stop recommending people go into 100k debt for this career cause "it's worth it", when under 5% make it all the way to the airlines.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

it’s pretty easy lol. yes, it’s super confusing and there’s a boatload of info to learn… but it’s easier than a lot of college courses.

don’t expect to understand it all immediately on the first time you’re told something. it’s a complex topic. that doesn’t make it difficult to get your PPL. it was like 70 hours of studying between the written and checkride, that’s really not a particularly large investment.

ever try to become a scratch golfer, or get a degree, or bench 315, or run a sub 20 minute 5k, or etc etc? things that require thousands of hours of work?

the only hard part of PPL is paying for it!

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MultiMillionMiler@reddit

I can't bench triple digits or even do a sub 30 5k for that matter...all I know is ground school is hard and am probably going to have to watch every single lecture again.

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

I can't bench triple digits or even do a sub 30 5k for that matter...

right, that's my point. those things are difficult. PPL knowledge really isn't

all I know is ground school is hard and am probably going to have to watch every single lecture again.

yeah I don't know what ground school studying you're using but rewatching and going over material is 100% expected! it's not like you should hear a piece of information and instantly understand it and all of the consequences of that information.

sounds like you've just got too high expectations for how quickly you'll understand and digest this info, more than it being hard. especially if you're just starting (like 10 or 20 hours of studying) it feels like you're always at the tip of the iceberg learning that actually there's 100 more icebergs! but you get a handle on things quicker than you think you will, don't stress about it

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Unhappy-Plantain-129@reddit

i would argue that studying for ppl is way less information compared to taking a semester of courses for other disciplines such as econ, engineering, sciences, medical etc at a university.

this is why people can have full time jobs and still train/study to be a pilot. the number one barrier of entry is really money.

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MultiMillionMiler@reddit

We're talking ATP though, not PPL (although many people say the firehose of PPL knowledge is the most difficult anyway lol), and aviation can be a whole college major. It's also being able to actively integrate all this while actually flying + multi-tasking 5 things at once vs just passing multiple choice tests.

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Comprehensive-Try430@reddit

Think I can speak for most people here. At least 95% of us are pilots because of an interaction like that or someone in our life influenced us. Let them dream as well as realize that being successful comes from hard work and getting through days where the sun isn’t too bright. Nothing more rewarding seeing the next gen dream and set goals

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Handag@reddit

You’re way overthinking this. If a kid comes up to the cockpit, you give them the “make sure you do well in school and work hard” type general advice. You don’t need to go into a diatribe of how they’ll never retire #1 at United.

If it’s someone older, I usually tell them to make sure to go to checkrides ready, avoid debt, and with a little luck and timing they’ll have an amazing career.

I feel like that is general life advice that applies to all fields.

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discgolfpilot@reddit

I am in my mid 40s and would not have changed it. That said I am honest I lived through trying to find a CFI job in the 2000s true qualifying for food stamps. And it can all be taken away with a failed medical. Or having a life event happen. You will be gone a large portion of your life. If you want a dog better have a significant other. Oh and they have to be someone that is ok with you being gone. If you have kids you are going to miss things and have to be on with it. If you go the airplane route you have to count on the board making the right choice. If you go the corporate route same thing or the primary owner doesn't sell.

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Timely_Entrance_7931@reddit

Tell them to do what I did, join the police force and fly helicopters for them. Best, most exciting job I can think of in the pilot realm. Great money and solid schedule. Not to mention extremely fluid flying. No mission is the same.

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Otherwise-Pen70@reddit

You should just tell the truth: Wanting to be an Airline Pilot is a great decision but there a many qualified pilots who compete for those high-paying jobs and Airlines are very selective and not everybody who wants to be an airline pilot makes it to the airlines.

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Denim-Luckies-n-Wry@reddit

Well, first I ask if they like gladiators and Turkish prisons. If that goes well, I'll frankly tell them that I dreamed of flying since I was a kid and I could never imagine doing any other job, because flying is a cool career and an exciting life totally different from any other occupation.

But I'm fortunate that when I was 12 years old, there was no one and no social media to tell me how many obstacles were in my path and how many ways I could fail.

The majority of the working world slogs away at a job that does not inspire them and they likely never dreamed of as a kid.

I do not encourage a kid to pursue flying. I let flying speak for itself and encourage them to pursue their dreams.

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BarbecuedShoe@reddit (OP)

Also doesn’t help that this whole pilot lifestyle thing is amplified by regional FO’s not even off probation yet posting GRWM on tik tok for the youth to idolize…

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Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit

It's always been this way, just in a slightly different flavor. Remember when SkyWest had to tell new hires specifically not to utilize food stamps while in uniform because the starting wage of an airline pilot was so pathetic pre-1500? Plenty of people who went through around 2008 saw the world crumble and decided maybe it was time to switch to another career.

Fast forward to now. Sure you're getting paid enough to feed a family once you're at a regional, but you have to slave away making poor money on the way there. Maybe you luck into a corporate job that's a little better, maybe you don't.

Be realistic. Don't lie and say this career is all sunshine and rainbows, but don't tell everyone how much it sucks from the roof of your third boat while your second ex-wife is driving it.

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I have countless buddies from college that can’t even find CFI jobs.

I get inspiring the younger generation but I don’t want to be the reason some 20 year old kid is in 6 figure debt with no job in sight… anyone else?

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