Took a buddy to a farm strip for lunch and the narrow runway absolutely humbled me

Here in the CA coast, there’s a cattle ranch that has a runway at their steakhouse. Some students like to fly their instructor out there for a steak as part of their X-C training. So, I kept asking my instructor when we could go, and he kept saying it was too windy. I responded “we land in those winds here all the time”. He turned to me and said “Take the width of our runway and cut that in half. Then, cut that in half. Then lop a little more off of that”.

Yeah… don’t go to those “residential” runways until you can hold that centerline like a boss

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iceman_andre@reddit

Can you share the place? Would love to go there once with my family

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jemenake@reddit

Harris Ranch. 30' wide. Mercifully, the winds are usually right down the runway. I've only been there about three times and, to be honest, the last time I went, the steaks were mediocre. There is the novelty of the place, in general, though. It's a motel/restaurant with palm trees and swimming pools out in the middle of miles of flat, brown, cattle pens, so it feels a little like an oasis.

What might be a more fun trip is Santa Margarita Ranch. Aviation 101 has an episode where he flies in there. That one is listed as private, so I think you're supposed to call ahead to have permission.

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MechanicalPulp@reddit

Are you talking about Harris Ranch?

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jemenake@reddit

Yup

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Frederf220@reddit

3o8 is about the narrowest I ever seen

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keenly_disinterested@reddit

Definitely the width illusion. Transition your view to the end of the runway to defeat.

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xtalgeek@reddit

The most important things to remember, regardless of the length or width of the runway are (1) use the proper approach speed, (2) use and stay on the centerline, and (3) verify that runway length is suitable for your aircraft and skill level.

Pilots get into trouble when they carry too much speed on final, try to prematurely plant on the runway (and initiate a PIO sequence), do not react to sideways drift, and/or attempt to land on a runway inappropriately short for their aircraft or piloting skills. And yes, extra wide or narrow runways can present unusual visual illusions. On a wide runway, normal approach speeds seem glacial. We have a former SAC base nearby that is now a civilian airport near me, and I'm pretty sure I could almost land my plane across the runway instead of lengthwise.

Even when landing on long, wide, runways, always, always use appropriate approach speeds and nail the centerline. There are lots of these narrow "driveway" runways around, so it's desirable to keep those skills honed. I've ridden with pilots that have screwed up landing on a 4500 x 75 foot runway. The quickest way to get into trouble is to take the normal approach speed range, use the maximum value, add 5 knots for "gusts", 5 knots for the crosswind, 5 more knots for "safety", and 5 more knots for the wife and kids. That's how you wind up floating down a 4500 foot runway and overrun the end.

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DisregardLogan@reddit

OP I think you need some work on your PIC and decision making skills considering your post history

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CAVU1331@reddit

Again?

So you’ve posted about landing into birds, landing insanely fast, lacking see and avoid, and now not being able to land on a narrow runway. Your skills need serious improvement and I think you need some remedial training.

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7w4773r@reddit

He’s the next chief pilot for Air Wagner

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MyNameWouldntFi@reddit

Everytime this guy posts it's just a fucking disaster. You also forgot about the time they thought they had traffic clearance provided by ATC while VFR, then saw another aircraft same altitude head on, and then banked left to avoid them lol

His account will be deleted soon when he's reminded how small the aviation world is

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CAVU1331@reddit

By the looks of his flying he may delete himself first.

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KT0QNE@reddit

The strip I learned on was a gravel farm strip. Well maintained, but the gravel was only 16 foot wide at the widest. 2000 ft long with a 500 overrun on the grass.

There is no margin for error. I like to think it made me a better pilot.

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nellipalooza@reddit

13W is fun

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MaterialDull9480@reddit

45G

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IcyWire3209@reddit

Airline pilot (retired AF) here. Yep, it’s a thing even at this level, and best you can do is just recognize ahead of time whether it’s a narrow runway with a tendency for an incomplete flare or a wider runway with a tendency to flare high and then plant it. And then you can at least know why the landing sucked.

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Decision_Height@reddit

Isn't these kind of illusions hammered into oblivion during PPL theory? Back when I did theory (EASA) Human Performance topic was basically optical illusions (wide runway vs narrow runway vs slopes runways etc) and somatogravic illusions. Plus don't drink and fly.

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ronniebabes@reddit

Flat. Back seat flying.

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iiiiijustdontknow@reddit

I take my post solo students to KDTG at least once before checkride. 21' wide 2,100' length runway. I always preach Airspeed control on final. If you are fast, go around try it again. No room for error on those short rwys. There's a reason we practice those short field landings for PPL :)

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Occams_ElectricRazor@reddit

I landed at a runway about this width that was on a golf course. On final there was a dude standing literally right next to the runway hitting a shot just after where I'd touch down. I ended up making a decision to do a to around despite reassurance from my CFI but damn was that was crazy.

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Happy-Table-9515@reddit

Dude, you humbled yourself. Grab a CFI and re-learn how to fly.

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dexton10@reddit

So while my training in California, 3O8 (Harris Ranch ) was exactly 100 NM away so we used to land over there often because it has great restaurants and the weather was almost good year round.

It is a 2800feet runway and 30 feet wide . I remember landing there for the first time tried to do a touch and go and I almost struck into the Billboard cause runway was super short and i didn't have enough time to build speed .

Luckily I was with my instructor and he told me always do a go around approch when you are landing at a runway which you know is narrow and short . So i always and always do a traffic pattern before making an actual landing.

Hopefully my experience will help someone. Happy landings .

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Flying21811@reddit

Typical Cirrus pilot.

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Big-Carpenter7921@reddit

We have one in my area that 15' wide

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m4a785m@reddit

We have one in my area that’s 13’ wide

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Gabriel_Owners@reddit

Real farm strips don't have pavement.

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

It's a beautiful, long, flat, paved runway. Being narrow gives you the illusion you're high so you flare high. Go practice on some dirt strips. The experience will be good for you.

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Squawk_0877@reddit (OP)

Yeah that lines up with what i felt, sat high the whole way down then ballooned it. dirt strips are going on the list, clearly need the reps

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

It's when you need peripheral vision more than ever.

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LowBasil6260@reddit

You mean you think you’re high so you flare low?

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BrtFrkwr@reddit

Yes, or you overcompensate and flare high.

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KingJellyfishII@reddit

try landing at some gliding sites, they're narrower than this, and you have no engine or option for go around!

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flyghu@reddit

Watch Rod Machado's runway expansion effect video. A great timing tool that is not dependent on visual cues that change with runway width, length, or slope.

Practice spot landing.

Little runways are the most fun!

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Bepus@reddit

This would’ve been worth a quick overflight before circling back for a landing.

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beastpilot@reddit

Not a big reader of first paragraphs?

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Big_Assignment5949@reddit

There were three other paragraphs, he forgot by the end.

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Face88888888@reddit

“did a couple of orbits over the runway first”

Sounds like that’s what OP did.

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NevadaCFI@reddit

Go to Kingsley in Missouri (MO9). It is about 18' wide of pavement with no centerline and has a great little cafe there. It just takes more practice to get the sight picture right.

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Southern_Usual_8773@reddit

Probably my favorite place for a $100 burger.

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Weasel474@reddit

Also good for centerline control. There's a 17' wide strip around me that I'll take tailwheel guys to before their signoff just for fun. A decent bit of grass and smooth runway edge for the guys that aren't perfect haha

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TheOriginalJBones@reddit

Look at the grass beside the runway. Humans are good at telling how far away from grass we we.

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Impossible-Bad-2291@reddit

Maybe pay an instructor to accompany you into a particularly challenging strip and go over it with them? I'm a low time PPL myself. I go up with an instructor every few months for a bit of recurrent training. Flying to a narrow, short strip near here is on my list if things to do with him.

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sketchyoporder@reddit

Harris Ranch?

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red_fuel@reddit

You sure it’s not a taxiway?

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Maldivesblue@reddit

Love small strips. They are even funner with a cross wind. I enjoy the challenge.

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CantConfirmOrDeny@reddit

It’s an eye opener alrighty. I had about 200 hrs on my PPL when I flew into Flagler, CO with a friend of mine. The wingspan of my Cherokee was wider than the runway, and the runway could not have been more than 2500 feet long. I knew all this going in, of course, but seeing it in real life is a whole other thing.

Took two tries to get it right, but what a trip!

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SpaceGump@reddit

different runway width, length, slope, etc. All create visual illusions.

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MathewARG@reddit

It just happens, thats why I also include runway width in my preflight. Of course I started doing it after I accidentally wheel-landed a PA12 I was only supposed to three point.

Learn from it, don’t beat yourself over it.

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AlmanorDiscard@reddit

Are you sure that's a runway and not a farm country backroad or a taxiway for a runway that never got built?

Also, kinda looks like Sutter Buttes in the background.

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Due-Letterhead6372@reddit

PHAK Chapter 17 - Page 11

Also, it helps to not land halfway down the runway too. Make sure you're approaching at the correct speed.

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FingFrenchy@reddit

You know the strip is narrow when your 172 wing tips are over the dirt instead of the pavement.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Me and a buddy flew out to this little farm strip someone told us about, never been there, they walked us through how to get in and even showed it on the map, did a couple orbits over the runway first to get a look, theres apparently a decent little restaurant there thats worth the trip.

Then we go to land and i absolutely planted it, proper firm arrival, glad the airframe is a tough one, heres the thing im posting about. the strip was narrow, like really narrow, and short, and because youre always landing on these big wide runways the narrow one looked like it was further out than it actually was, it threw off my picture on short final and my flare was late.

So if you ever end up going into a strip like this keep in mind a small narrow runway makes it feel further away than it really is.

Would love if some of the more experienced folks could weigh in, is this the runway width illusion im thinking of or is there something else going on here

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