Our AI spending has gotten so high that layoffs wouldnt make a meaningful difference.
Posted by sassasmebas@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 329 comments
I am a manager at a mid sized company (roughly 5k-6k employees), and over the last couple of months our AI spending has absolutely exploded.
What started as a few teams experimenting with AI tools has turned into company wide adoption. Multiple departments are using different AI platforms, some teams have access to premium tiers, and a growing number of workflows now depend on high-end models.
The problem is that the bill keeps climbing every month, and management is becoming increasingly concerned. Our last month bill was close to $1 million dollars.
Leadership has asked us to find ways to reduce costs, but honestly I am struggling to see how that happens without either:
- Introducing strict usage caps and quotas
- Removing access to the most expensive models altogether and forcing teams onto cheaper alternatives.
The challenge is that once people get used to the performance of the models like claude, its very difficult to convince them to step down to something less capable. Every team is justifying why they need the best model for their use case.
Whats interesting is that during some cost-review discussions, organizational restructuring and even limited layoffs were mentioned as potential ways to improve overall spending. But after looking at the numbers, it became clear that cutting a handful of positions would barely move the needle compared to our AI expenses.
In some cases, the monthly cost of AI for certain groups is approaching the cost of adding new headcount yearly spend.
I’m curious whether anyone else is seeing this. Have AI costs become a major line item at your company? If so, how are you controlling spending without hurting productivity?
Are you using quotas, chargebacks to departments, model restrictions, approval workflows, or something else?
crazyeddie123@reddit
The challenge is that once people get used to the performance of the models like claude, its very difficult to convince them to step down to something less capable.
You really think convincing programmers to do programming again is hard? Shit, they'll probably throw a god damn party.
aford515@reddit
A friend recently told me that his company has already doubled their monthly AI token limit four times. He brought this up on the 20th of the month, mentioning that he couldn't keep working because they had prematurely hit the cap again. I asked him if they're actually making more money by using AI to build projects faster. He said the only money they make from AI is on projects that directly integrate it, or on dedicated AI projects.
c-digs@reddit
That's the hilarious thing: it's like we made framing a house 100x faster. That's great, but an investor still needs to figure out where to build, what to build, how to sell what gets built. Leadership thinks that the problem was the construction part. Now we can build 10x faster, but still haven't figured out the rest.
anonyuser415@reddit
My EM recently asked if we could use AI to make product requirements.
Not "turn this user research into a PRD"
Fully: tell us where and what to build, AI
psaux_grep@reddit
It’s for sure going to sound fancy.
anonyuser415@reddit
how could it be wrong? look at these eighteen markdown files it wrote
6stringNate@reddit
I’m in consulting and was doing a stint at a place with unlimited Claude. The amount of fucking markdowns I got as an answer to “hey can you figure out this problem, think of a solution and let me know what you come up with?”
It’s just someone throwing a half thought at a problem, generating a mountain of bullshit that then I have to actually solve, read and approve. Because if I blindly approve the slop, they will sure as shit let their Claude half baked implement their half baked idea.
WhenSummerIsGone@reddit
call for a team metting to have them explain, and review the proposed design
RandomPantsAppear@reddit
A commonly used copy paste for me is “Great, now explain it like a human and not a professor preparing a research paper for public release”
anonyuser415@reddit
2015 version: me Googling "solution to this problem," and sending the top result to you without reading it
Polite_Jello_377@reddit
I mean it can… they won’t be the right requirements but it definitely can make them.
seven_seacat@reddit
They'd be about as accurate as the PRD would be - that is, not very.
Dealing with this at the moment. Current process is that devs must critically analyze the requirements in every ticket they they pick up to ensure they are valid and correct, nothing was missed, etc. Then come up with a suitable product design that ensures the requirements are met, and all future requirements are possible. Then do the implementation.
Frank_White32@reddit
Ask again later
aford515@reddit
yeah his company charged 9k (were in germany) for 3 engineers explaining how to use copiliot in excel to some office guy running a non software related company. also kinda funny because all 3 guys going there knew how shitty copilot is. they just have some engineers in a microsoft devision so they explicitly bring the value of ms products to customers and inegrate them an my friend has 10 years .net experience
Immediate_Rhubarb430@reddit
Well, you don't, right? The appeal of AI was saving on labour by shortening development times so you can either do more with the same employees, or the same with less employees.
The implicit hypothesis there is the AI is cheap compared to employees.
But if your AI spend starts dominating your employee expense, well, then it all breaks apart. You are now easily doing the same but paying more for it.
And mind you, AI is subsidized now. We are not being charged what it costs, as evidenced by the operating losses of the big AI firms as documented by Ed Zitron.
scruffalubadubdub@reddit
I’m def gonna use the unionization comparison. Never thought of it that way before, but it’s very true.
hippydipster@reddit
These AI costs aren't coming close to dominating employee expense. 5k employees will cost $45-90 million ($9-20k per employee) per month, compared to the AI of $1 million. The AI needs to enhance productivity by <5% to be worth it.
Alternative_Win_6638@reddit
Doubling or tripling tokens will not yield any improvement to dev work.
The thing is nothing changed in the Software dev process since AI introduction.
The process stayed the same, Develop requirements, designs and plans, implement and test.
The same dev process applies with or without AI and if you deviate from it your project becomes a mess.
The gold is in integrating AI in the full dev process, rather then in coding only and using the tradisional dev docs and plans as a context to the agent.
hippydipster@reddit
Note to self: add line to resume about being able to continue being productive even after hitting rate limits.
RandyHoward@reddit
I don't know how someone gets a job in the first place if their productivity drops to zero without the use of AI. Are companies really hiring people who completely rely on AI and don't understand how to code at all now?
AvailableName1814@reddit
We hit our token limit last week and Claude stopped for the whole company. It's not easy just to switch back to no-ai coding. Experienced or not, consistent AI usage really messes with your brain and skill set.
aford515@reddit
Dude his job was to redactor an old python codebase lol. The time he was given was adequate to ai usage. Also he is specifically a net dev there and he never used python in his life. Please dont judge my friend he had 10 years experience. Coded since elementary school and is geniuly a good guy. He just god a big refsctor project no ine cared about not some specific logic implementation.
RandyHoward@reddit
I wasn't judging your friend. I was more judging the company for putting someone in a role who doesn't possess the skills for that role. I'm a PHP guy, and if my company tried to drop me into their .NET environment (we do have both), I'd say they were being pretty stupid even if I could manage my way through it with AI.
aford515@reddit
dude they make projects for big companies or small companies and they make money relying on having a big name and customers thinking about tech as a black box. customers are the main priority and the descision maker about bonuses. the dont develop alot of internal stuff for themselves or so, or sometimes they do. and yeah sorry for overreacting but i had some bad experience on reddit.
RandyHoward@reddit
I can't agree with this. That would mean every teacher and school is committing fraud because they're relying on the students' lack of information to generate money. Knowledge itself is a product that has been monetized for a very long time.
aford515@reddit
nah i mean youre taking his money knowing he cant formalise his needs. u go with this because u know it gives you more money, but you know exactly what he wouldve asked for if he had the information.
danielt1263@reddit
Do they have a choice? The people coming out of school only know to use AI for everything.
aford515@reddit
He is a senior. He got a shitty job of refactor a python codebase for a customer in like 2 weeks. Guys please
danielt1263@reddit
Ah! Not the "I can't do it" but rather, "I can't do it in the time allotted."
aford515@reddit
i mean it was a job that was only possible with ai.
tiagocesar@reddit
Probably one of those places where "everything has to be done using AI"
nrith@reddit
Yes
edgmnt_net@reddit
Presumably they can bill by developer. You add up the salary, AI usage costs and other operational costs. Then you can use that with the same caveats that poor development practices may increase costs further down the road, but it's pretty much the same thing with AI if they misuse it. The less obvious thing might be that increasing costs signals both quality issues and possible scope creep, as the company may have increased scope just because AI was easy to adopt. In any case, it shouldn't make a difference for billing per se, although it definitely makes a difference once you look at the bigger picture, decide pricing strategies and begin questioning whether development is sustainable at all at this rate. But it's essentially the same issue you get when outsourcing or hiring en masse with low standards, then your project keeps getting delayed and running over budgets over and over.
aford515@reddit
Yeah they outsource aswell to Indians. My friend did that. Half the day he was giving on-boarding and guidance. No one of them hat any intrinsic interest in software dev. Thats what I aswell dont get about big companies.
edgmnt_net@reddit
Yeah, I don't think you get to that unnaturally big scale without spreading yourself thin. This is largely a matter of macroeconomic incentives (and policies), I'd say. But people think that Google and others do big and important stuff. Which is true, but it's not the whole picture. A large part of such companies (or at least some of them) ends up being a highly-optimized money pumping mechanism. This typically means more and more ad-hoc work, custom development, lower individual impact, highly cost-sensitive stuff. Of course they're going to outsource to India and even then they won't just pick the good Indian devs (which are already much cheaper anyway and may be totally justifiable), since a large part of the revenue structure comes from extracting tiny profits from a lot of labor-intensive stuff.
The focus on SaaS in recent years also doesn't help at all, because it shifts work to the service provider in practice. Whereas previously the customer got to manage the complexity they created and keep the pieces when it broke (with varying levels of stability guarantees over a core product), now the service provider must maintain a lot of debatable ad-hoc stuff for who knows how long and the customer pays a subscription. I've seen a lot of half-baked random crap which was only justified by the fact that one single customer wanted it at some point (double damage if management thinks the feature has resale value, yet obviously it was cost-sensitive enough that it was largely made out of duct tape). Plenty of companies say they have actual products but they largely have a pileup of random features from customers. At any rate, that's not something that can be done without cutting corners. And even that gets progressively more difficult over time as things weigh down heavily.
Big-Pirate2371@reddit
My company just wants us to use AI for everything. I don’t understand it. Design docs are 40 pages of AI slop that I have to review. “Just use AI to verify it”. PRs are all AI and we are encouraged to use AI to review everything. Teams don’t even collaborate now because it’s all about shipping as many PRs as possible - there’s even a leaderboard.
As a staff engineer I feel so dumb. I don’t even know what my job is anymore. I try to get teams to collaborate and talk to each other but “no that doesn’t matter just ship more PRs but also we’re going to track your token usage and PR correlation to see if you’re using it effectively”.
I’m about to leave and down level to a senior engineer again.
e430doug@reddit
I’m always suspicious of these kinds of posts. It conveniently brings up two emerging anti AI narratives. Cost and productivity. These tools haven’t been around long enough to impact either. Most small companies already have software subscriptions to other services that consume a lot of money yet you never see those being mentioned. The productivity impact won’t emerge for another year or two. That’s how software has always worked. This sounds like an inauthentic posting.
jakubkonecki@reddit
Good luck next week when Copilot switches to per-token charging.
Able_Resident_1291@reddit
Where I work every senior manager has been telling us for months that everyone needs to adopt AI workflows for everything, and now due to the per-token charging everyone's also having their monthly token allowance cut in half.
IdeaJailbreak@reddit
I do think a token limit is the smart move. No ICs I work with care one iota about efficiency. Meanwhile I'm here with a tuned headroom and caveman trying to track my token usage knowing the bill will come due soon.
warm_kitchenette@reddit
Did you ever try the caveman-micro prompt?
https://github.com/kuba-guzik/caveman-micro
WhenSummerIsGone@reddit
pretty soon we will be speaking math
IdeaJailbreak@reddit
No. Will try. Thank
fuzzyFurryBunny@reddit
funny how they all chose to move forward without consulting the engineers that actually know what LLM technology is and figure out its use. If you actually know the tech you know how inefficient LLMs are inherently, you wouldn't be stupid to not realize the subsidized cost and force it down every which way while turning off brain cells that are free to use and actually help improve your employees' capabilities.
hardolaf@reddit
Where I work, managers don't seem to care about costs and deprioritize reports from us users about how changes in vendors and technologies used to access AI models increased prices by 40-100% for the same models that we were using the day before without no upstream price changes from the companies who actually own the servers.
anonyuser415@reddit
Meanwhile my CTO is #1 on our Cursor leaderboard with an order of magnitude more tokens used than the #2. I wonder how much global pointless leadership tokenmaxxing is costing rn
therealslimshady1234@reddit
This. The great enshittification has now properly hit AI as well, and you are getting less and less slop for your tokens. It's happening at every scale, from bbig tech to smaller companies like mine.
anand_rishabh@reddit
Everything is happening so fast with ai. The enshittification of the Internet had taken forever compared to ai
vegetablestew@reddit
I don't think its enshittification. Models are still fairly good, but you are no longer subsidized.
therealslimshady1234@reddit
Then why is everybody on r/claude moaning about how 4.6 was better than 4.7 and 4.8?
Both quality and quantity has gone down
tylern@reddit
The training data is getting shittier and shittier. We knew this would happen eventually. The models have peaked
03263@reddit
At least the singularity is coming and going quickly? I need a job.
therealslimshady1234@reddit
Yep, it’s ogre
Sokaron@reddit
Enshittification is not when new product bad. Enshittification refers to the specific process of a product over time getting worse and worse for the end user to better serve the wants of data-harvesting, advertising, and general profit maximization.
Distinct_Bad_6276@reddit
I don’t think you know what tokens are, because this would actually be a massive improvement as you stated it.
therealslimshady1234@reddit
How is getting less slop for your tokens a good thing? You guys want more of it, not less
Distinct_Bad_6276@reddit
“Less slop per [output] token” indicates that the ratio of slop to non-slop is decreasing, ergo models are writing higher quality code.
therealslimshady1234@reddit
I wasn't referring to a ratio though, but rather volume
Distinct_Bad_6276@reddit
It’s inherently a ratio since you can just run the model more
Frank_White32@reddit
Pretty sure they’re referencing all ai generated output as slop, and therefore you get less output for your tokens.
It’s not quite the best way to phrase is either way, but that was my read.
positev@reddit
I intend to drive copilot like a rented mule this week so my employer can really get a feel for the cost
_Wattage_Cottage@reddit
This is the way. I’m at a F100 and rumors are the next round of layoffs are coming in July. I’m hoping we band together and prove to senior leadership that layoffs won’t come close to offsetting the costs of AI adoption they’re pushing so hard.
yet_another_no_name@reddit
Well, the AI usage comes from employees. So cutting an employee also cut AI cost up to how much that employee used it.
Though the most effective cuts would be to cut those who completely adopted AI as per their request, and keep those who resisted the adoption 😅
db11242@reddit
I don't think using logic or data is a guide for these decisions at an F100. The executives can't admit their big push to use AI is not a money printer.
Etheon44@reddit
I mean, it is actually what they are requesting of you, so show them
And the most hilarious part of this is, right now, AIs are VERY cheap, from what they will be in a few years, the service is simply nowhere near sustainable with the current pricing as soon as the investments because of the hype die down, which will happen eventually
Careful_Ad_9077@reddit
10-20 gold increase, 10 for pure inference and static models.,20 if you add training and models that keep on improving.
positev@reddit
Yeah, when asked about the pricing, they said they will keep an eye on it, I’ll make sure it’s easy for them to observe 😁
Mtsukino@reddit
At my job, we were given advanced layoff notice per Warn Act. 800 employees laid off. Next week is going to be so much fun with claude opus 4.7
TheCauthon@reddit
Is that a US act?
RandomPantsAppear@reddit
Treat yourself, 4.8 dropped and it’s expensive.
its_a_gibibyte@reddit
Claude Code has been per-token pricing for enterprises for a long time now. I assume that's how OP's company is racking up all these huge bills. Copilot will still cheaper than Claude enterprise since Copilot gives you credit for the seat fee, while Claude code does not.
BananasAndBrains@reddit
My Copilot license is $19 with the per request billing. My company estimates $900 with per token billing for my usage pattern. Most of my requests run for 30 minutes.
So now Copilot will be canceled, and I get claude, codex, and deepseek. All 3 together are still cheaper.
U_L_Uus@reddit
Oh boy, that is going to be spicy. I have to stock up on popcorn
Which-World-6533@reddit
Have you tried writing code yourselves...?
You can do it by writing a prompt out, and then using your skills and experience to write out the solution.
Then you make a PR.
It's quire a revelation that people can write code just like LLMs can. Sometimes it's even better.
thiskillscoworker@reddit
Tell that to my tech lead. He uses AI to create Jira tickets, create the code, and to write the PRs. Totally brainrot.
Which-World-6533@reddit
Maybe suggest to his manager that you can replace him with a pigeon that pecks at the "Do AI Stuff" button...?
03263@reddit
Pigeons are unionized, no way.
Which-World-6533@reddit
I can start to see the start of the end of the AI bubble approaching.
Comedy86@reddit
Well, now... That's just crazy talk.
vrrrr@reddit
You might be onto something here… 🤔
DrxAvierT@reddit
My company just went from everyone please use AI earlier this year to we're reviewing our AI usage, moving forward only a few people can use it. I guess that's what happen when AI companies can't subsidize anymore
Comedy86@reddit
First of all, yes our AI spending is going up. Our 2K staff, from my understanding, average out around $200/person (devs use a lot more, some people only use automated systems).
How we're handling it though is to first, make sure as much of the AI which could and should be automation is turned into automation. Second, and more importantly, the AI usage needs to provide a positive ROI. If a dev making $120K/ yr ($12K/mth) uses $1.2K tokens a month, they should be providing an increased output of 10% or more.
So, assess the usage and add it into employee metrics. If they are using AI, count their usage as salary. If they aren't producing the increased "salary" cost, they're underperforming and you can reassess if their output is still worth the cost on an individual level.
It sounds a bit cold hearted to suggest some people are wasting money and corrective action may be needed to help increase their productivity or maybe it's more appropriate to let them go if they're not keeping up with others on their team doing similar work but that's unfortunately how capitalism works.
IceMichaelStorm@reddit
Token based is anyways expensive right?
We are small but each employee will simply get Claude Max, 100 bucks per month. Tbh, this will succeed.
Sure, you can tokenmaxx and waste stuff and yea, with more agents you could run a few things more, but that’s diminishing returns.
SimianWorks@reddit
Define success in this context.
IceMichaelStorm@reddit
Ah sorry, I mean suffice
SimianWorks@reddit
Your definition of success is making the most of tokens. Business will be looking for ROI. Whatever the spend is.
IceMichaelStorm@reddit
That’s so easy. 100€ per month given our backlog of burning stuff is accomplished very fast
SimianWorks@reddit
80-95% of AI initiatives have failed. Does burning through more tickets generate more revenue or reduce overall costs at the very least?
Only time will tell. But the odds are against it.
IceMichaelStorm@reddit
I know what I’m doing and that it improves my productivity when I review the code myself. If I use it as a tool that is better auto completion, I will complete more bugs and accomplish more features faster. That’s just how it goes.
I don’t care about general statistics because they have a lot of tokenmaxxing, vibe coding, and all these shit practices in. Of course, they don’t work.
I’m also not saying, I will become 10x as fast because review costs time, but I know I’m faster if I use the tools properly, with proper guardrails, and manual checking.
So no. Time does not need to tell. Unless they increase prices 10x or let devs use it unlimited for super inefficient use, it’s a lever.
kobumaister@reddit
I think that it depends on how you use AI, I'm VP of tech and we limited a lot the usage of AI in the company, no vibecode tools, and subscriptions over the basic claude must be justified. For developers they have access to whatever they need, but we track the in terms of story points (I know, it's not the best metric, but we've always measured sprint speed and it's a good metric to compare the after-ai) and credits usage.
On the other hand, for AI embedded in features (image recognition, comparsions, etc...) we try to find the best price value model, and it's working pretty well so far in terms of cost controll.
Psycho_Syntax@reddit
Why does it seem like it’s always the dumbest fucking people that make it to upper management? Anyone with a brain could see this coming, AI eventually getting prohibitively expensive was a common topic of discussion on this sub months ago lol
mabnx@reddit
That's $200 per employee. If it's useful to them in any way it's probably worth it?
nrcomplete@reddit
Some engineers remember how to code without AI and are still really good at it. Sack the ones who can’t, and just go back to building software.
dbxp@reddit
OP says they've rolled out AI across all departments. I suspect a lot of that usage is coming from things like generating powerpoints with images and marketing videos rather than code
03263@reddit
Helloo sir are you hiring? I remember the ways of the ancients
RandomPantsAppear@reddit
Gleefully chisels optimized Postgres memory settings into stone tablet
Taco_Enjoyer3000@reddit
All natty or nothing.
fuzzyFurryBunny@reddit
If you actually understand how AI works, you would realize how inefficient LLMs inherently are. You don't realize that if you think it's a magical box, especially when it's heavily subsidized. LLMs only make sense for tedious tasks that can't be done more efficiently or if there's a not-costly available solution. Like how many ppl rewriting the same tools that are probably free on open source that they just need to deploy and plug in and try. Even something tedious, I'd recognize.. are you repeatedly asking to do the right task or are you making an automation script once that you never have to repeatedly go through an LLM to repeat the task. And even then if you have engineers that do know how to code, is the LLM really going to come up with that script faster. I know if it's stuff I write normally, I have absolutely no need for LLM to write it itself. It's just useful when it's something I don't normally do that I do have to look up -- and even then, considering token cost, if it's straightforward, I should just find the existing solution. Prompt engineering is literally adding another layer to a more complex thing to get what you need.
Also putting out a bunch of code will accumulate enormous technical debt.
Funny how all the managers and ceos moved to 'we need AI' instead of deferring to the engineers who understand AI on how to use the tool than forcing them down their throats.
Wonderful-Habit-139@reddit
Crazy how much money they need to spend and how dependent on AI these teams are.
It's pretty sad.
SmartCustard9944@reddit
It’s crazy how some people use compilers instead of optimizing the assembly by hand. Have you seen the mess the compiler makes?
SimianWorks@reddit
A weird forced dependency by corporate kool-aid drinkers.
dbxp@reddit
For us it is a large figure but I'm not involved in the costing.
My first instinct would be to look for automations using it and rank them by cost. Automations are the easiest way to rack up bills so you should be able to decrease it quite easily. When you've wiped out the ones which aren't of any benefit then use something like Zapier or write Python scripts to try to replace the most expensive ones with regular code.
Second I would find a way to audit people using AI for non work purposes. Massively restrict image and video generation as those are way more expensive than text.
gorac_sport@reddit
DeepSeek and Qwen are x5 cheaper
BoostedHemi73@reddit
I’m genuinely curious if there’s a measurable change in productivity (that actually results in business outcomes - not just more tickets cleared, more screens built, etc etc.). Is the business graph going up? Are the spreadsheet finance dorks gleefully counting the profits?
Or, more realistically… was it all a big nothingburger like we guessed? Great typing accelerator, but a mess if you let it go buck wild.
RandomPantsAppear@reddit
Speaking personally, for me I would say there is.
But also I’m not using AI like an idiot. I obsess over code structure, and use it where it actually makes sense for me - basic things, debugging, even moments where I’m in a bit over my head. The meat of the logic I do by hand or close to it.
But there is also an understanding with my company - certain things need speed, and certain things are the foundation on which we build everything else.
The frontend Internal dashboard for our C suite and employees? Fucking slop fest. But the auth is stable and the UI works so it’s whatever.
The core decision making behind the product? Exhaustively tested. In the midst of a re-write because we do recognize quality matters (this is a startup with an early fast MVP behind us).
likeittight_@reddit
crickets.gif
bold_snowflake@reddit
Has this cost come with a measurable increase in productivity? What is your ROI looking like?
My company is a similar size and has similarly gone all in on AI development. But I'm struggling to see a measurable increase in productivity. There is a perception of greater productivity, but the data doesn't seem to be backing it up.
SimianWorks@reddit
80-95% of AI initiatives fail. More and more companies are starting to wake up. Most recently Uber.
SmartCustard9944@reddit
We are not even remotely close to having converged to “the proper way” to use these tools. I work at a very well known company at the forefront of open source, and I would estimate that 20% of teams have a consolidated use for AI tools. For the other 80% it doesn’t mean it’s a failure. Come on, every other day there is a new crazy model and new crazy tools, we are still early days.
bold_snowflake@reddit
Yes, I read about Uber, I imagine it will be eye opening for many across the industry and prompt many to look deeper.
SimianWorks@reddit
Preach.
Primary-Editor-9288@reddit
Honestly the pricyness of AI has yet to start. They still burning through a lot of VC money now so that Software Engineers etc become so dependant on AI for writing code and doing other tasks that they don't have a choice but to buy expensive plans of Copilot, Claude code etc.
Annual_Negotiation44@reddit
Pardon my ignorance, but when does the VC die off? When Anthropic and OpenAI go public?
RandomPantsAppear@reddit
Not for a long time. VC are in too deep, and the AI brainworm is equally deep in their LinkedIn.
They will figure it out eventually, right before the bankers financing the datacenter expansions.
Primary-Editor-9288@reddit
when expectations of profit come in.
metal_slime--A@reddit
Avg help is offshore at 30k a head. Yuck.
roodammy44@reddit
Our company has caps. When you run out of AI you need to use your mind. I don’t think it’s such a terrible solution. It makes AI use more targeted so you’re not as vague with your prompts.
Even_Me@reddit
Not when the company wants you to use it every day. We even have a door of leaderboard on how much each uses, with gamification and everything. We’re to use it all the tools, cursor, clause, gpt, Gemini, the more the better looks like it. Then we got the monthly cap and they don’t know what to do besides increasing the cap. They say, be mindful and choose the model, but when I use lower models they are very slow and make way more mistakes, the higher also make mistakes, but the list you babysit way more and curse way more the choices it does.
roodammy44@reddit
Honestly, that is the most dumb way to introduce AI into a company. Every other tool we have used as programmers has been from the bottom up. Making it a competition is a good way to make me as a dev waste as many tokens as possible on bullshit.
RandomPantsAppear@reddit
I still can’t believe these companies told a bunch of engineers “Optimize for this”, then got surprised that everyone optimized for that.
NoSpinach4025@reddit
Use my mind?? Claude is doing all my thinking now! /s
Tight-Requirement-15@reddit
Doesn’t sound productive. If employees are unproductive during the rate limits, it looks bad on the managers too
hubert_farnsworrth@reddit
I like this idea of cap. If you ration your tokens and not use them for absolutely everything you will be fine.
SimianWorks@reddit
Ah yes. The era of token rationing. Lol wtf happened to software development!
hubert_farnsworrth@reddit
Lol yes I agree and rationing would bring some of it back. You don’t need AI to read your mails, summarize slacks, read jira. People should cut those right away and if you go ci cd agile you will not have big enough changes you can’t do without losing your mind.
I honestly do not know what advantage does AI give a mature org but then I am not the one making decisions.
SimianWorks@reddit
Preach.
guareber@reddit
We started on corporate $200 per month licenses, and are moving to token-based starting jun1st.
First thing we asked was "cap all keys to 200 per month". Why would you open yourself up to uncontrolled liability like that without a cap?
Crafty_Independence@reddit
If you are unproductive without AI then someone else should replace you who is
lucky_anonymous@reddit
The thing is, once the user reaches the cap and unable to use the full AI, the reliance takes toll and user is unable to work effectively.
another_dudeman@reddit
I was switched to gpt 4.1 for the last couple days of the month. I ended up just writing code by hand again, fuck that.
therealslimshady1234@reddit
What do you think of all the AI copers who say that local models like DeepSeek are the future?
chuch1234@reddit
How are we supposed to buy enough RAM to run them?
JollyJoker3@reddit
There are usually cheaper models. People need incentives to use the cheapest model for a given task.
Scared_Mongoose_4788@reddit
We also have caps. It's not really that transparent what these caps are but we are using different types of AI tools which will eventually consolidate into a core set of tools. It's still too early to tell. I use the cheaper models for most of my workflow and only use the pricier ones for deep reasoning work i.e. brainstorming wide architecture changes
Visionexe@reddit
So much spending, so little productivity ... And even considered layoffs as a potential solution. The industry is fucking high.
VandererInn@reddit
I don't see the problem. $170 per employee per month sounds very reasonale. You pay more for an IDE alone.
MangoTamer@reddit
It's a management problem. There's lots of news about companies laying people off for not using AI heavily enough so people are scrambling to try and cram it in anywhere they can. Management definitely needs to be The ones setting The incentives on that.
Visionexe@reddit
What's the problem here? These are clearly the solution.
Idea-Aggressive@reddit
Anyway, how do you have 1M spare for “let’s try AI” and paying your workers 30k? Gosh you deserve it😅
SmartCustard9944@reddit
Because payroll processes are historically calcified. Salaries barely follow properly even inflation.
GaTechThomas@reddit
Their numbers indicate that salaries would total $150-300 million. It only takes a small productivity increase for that $1 million to pay off.
DeathByClownShoes@reddit
Stereotypically, those offshore workers generate lots of slop. I would assume the slop volume and velocity has increased with no meaningful improvement in code quality.
hissingkittycom@reddit
The amount of unlimited budget for AI right now is crazy. I can't even spend $99/mo on a new tool without CFO approval yet if I blow through $2,000 in tokens I get praised.
seven_seacat@reddit
$2000 is rookie numbers compared to some of the dollar figures I've seen
Flooding_Puddle@reddit
My senior architect told me he was at 8k the other day
SmartCustard9944@reddit
This is understandable, but a very limited point of view in my opinion. We cannot work under the assumption that we have converged, as the wide globalized heterogenous industry, to optimal or proven effective ways to use these tools. Every day we find new ways to use them. It would be very limiting if we only left a few people play with it and pave the way. Look at it like a distributed research.
composero@reddit
This feels like one of those, it was fun while it lasted phase. You don’t need AI for everything. It would be nice to keep it for lower models for syntax checks, but it really just outsourced the brain at this point and that’s what your company should be cultivating, its staff’s brain. I believe Altman even said recently the goal for them is to sell you intelligence
Taco_Enjoyer3000@reddit
>This feels like one of those, it was fun while it lasted phase.
Hell no, living and working in a world and industry delusional about this wasteful garbage is/was NOT fun.
welcomefinside@reddit
Uh.. we didn't need AI for that.
Frank_White32@reddit
I don’t even know if I could say it was fun while it lasted. It was more exhausting than anything.
ptrnyc@reddit
No it was great when it lasted. Yesterday I did a somewhat large refactoring, where a base class had its structure modified and the changes had to trickle down to 30 derived classes. Claude nailed it in an hour, where I would probably have spent a few days. For that kind of mechanical work, AI is awesome.
webbed_feets@reddit
It’s been really fun if you’re in a company that lets you use AI instead of making you use AI. I’ve been able to burn tokens to play around with AI-assisted coding. No pressure to deliver fast slop.
Polite_Jello_377@reddit
“It lasted”
hissingkittycom@reddit
If you look at same of the data on usage, there's still way too much focus on using AI for everything instead of using AI for what AI is good at. Unfortunately this feels like a snowball rolling down hill at this point gathering steam. Once you start connecting usage to ROI using ramp.com or costhawk.ai it becomes super clear who is using it well and who is wasting tokens.
anonyuser415@reddit
Woof, that second one you linked looks terrible. Isn't it ironic to have a vibe coded frontend when trying to be a product that improves AI? Anyway, maybe fix that on your site before writing the next shill comment
UnintentionallyEmpty@reddit
Have you considered not using AI?
If the productivity improvement is only marginal and evidently not worth the cost... why don't you just stop?
vansterdam_city@reddit
What do you mean layoffs won’t make a dent?
My company average employee cost is around $350k for an engineer and let’s say $250k for the average knowledge worker. At $1m/month you have to lay off 3-4 knowledge workers to break even for that month. So about 40-50 people to break even for the year.
That’s less than 1% of your company. You don’t think they could find the most useless 1% and say good bye?
I don’t mean to be an asshole here, but it’s worth understanding the math. AI is not going away, and the things I am saying are being discussed by people who actually can do it (not me in case that isn’t clear).
We are ALL entering the “you don’t have to outrun the bear, just the other hunter” phase of this process. Don’t be in the bottom 1 or 10%..
TheCauthon@reddit
These salaries are not typical for most orgs.
vansterdam_city@reddit
Don’t forget about medical, company side social security, office space, IT/HR/payroll support, and other misc benefits and overhead.
The actual employee cash comp is maybe 2/3 of the actual cost.
Bricktop72@reddit
You need to form a central AI team, consolidate everyone to a single AI platform, put a high cap on token usage, tell people token maxxing will be punished, and capture metrics for a few months. If someone exceeds the cap, verify their workflow is capturing business value and see if there are things they can do to reduce token usage. If they are doing a good job get them identified as AI SME's and start using them to create best practices and evaluate other projects.
If they are token maxxing with no value, give them a lower cap and require escalation to a manager to lift it. If someone says performance evaluations are tied to token usage make it your mission to explain why that person is a moron at every opportunity.
To reenforce that reviews aren't based on token usage, send out monthly or quarterly AI success stories that identify teams and people using AI that are doing a good job. An easy way to do this is to have people submit ideas and have a bake off. That way the ideas come to you. Make sure the email goes to everyone.
Also start an internal AI user community so people have a place they can ask a question vs them going to the Internet.
Use what you learn to write up AI usage policies for the company. Then start lowering the token cap to force teams to adopt good practices.
Or pay a consulting firm a few million to come in and tell you to do the exact same thing.
SimianWorks@reddit
Then once your company fails to see any ROI, enjoy returning to more grounded software engineering.
Bricktop72@reddit
The only way you can prove that is with centralized metrics.
SimianWorks@reddit
Brother, if they're unable to measure it, they'll pivot. If they manage to get their shit together to measure it, they'll pivot harder. ROI is notoriously challenging to measure in general, for a myriad of reasons.
Bricktop72@reddit
Lets be honest, they're never going to get their shit together. They probably can't justify their offshoring beyond "Number lower".
hell_razer18@reddit
I dont know how someone can get bill so high. Are you guys using API directly without subscription? like are these guys for real?
Say 1k employee, 1 claude max $100 thats like 100k bill per year. That should suffice for generic usage non dev(?). For specific team surely $200 suffice but not all should get that.
Then some workflow definitely use api key here and there but that should be maintained or at least has some dashboard about which api key skyrocketing the bill..
dhg@reddit
Can’t use Max for enterprise. All companies need to do usage pricing
hell_razer18@reddit
TIL..
NotACockroach@reddit
I don't see how your maths makes sense here. You said "layoffs wouldnt make a meaningful difference."
Let's say your 5k employees average $150k (I know some aren't software developers and will earn less, but many will earn more, and once you consider the additional costs of an employee over salary I think this is a low estimate),
That's $750m per year. You said your last month will was less than $1m, so that's $12m per year. In fact if your numbers are to be believed, you could offset your entire AI spend by laying off just 80 of the 5k users, just 1.6% of your workforce. That's pretty small in the scheme of tech layoffs.
To be clear, I'm definitely not advocating for layoffs, just pointing out that the assertion in the title is likely completely incorrect.
sassasmebas@reddit (OP)
That assumes a US centric compensation structure. Roughly 70% of our headcount is in India, where average total compensation is nowhere near $150k. A more representative figure for a large portion of the workforce is closer to $30k per year.
I'm not arguing that layoffs have zero financial impact, of course they do. My point was that the scale of the AI spend being discussed is large enough that the relationship isn't as straightforward as lay off 1–2% of staff and it pays for everything.
Single-Pen-726@reddit
Nasty company you work for. They are speed running the "cut expensive american devs" strategy. Congratulations youve reached end game. Time to start hiring those 150k a year devs to fix this mess for you. Youre cooked pal.
NoSpinach4025@reddit
AI + AI (An Indian) can very well perform the cognitive work of a 150K dev for way cheaper.
Single-Pen-726@reddit
Ops post says otherwise. They are paying 1 million dollars a month for indians with AI and it doesnt seem to be working out.
shared_ptr@reddit
Why do you think this is true? We’re actively hiring and expanding our headcount and the relative value of the work an engineer can provide has increased, not decreased.
shared_ptr@reddit
Ah, I came here to post exactly what NotACoackroach said. For engineers at our company we're spending 20% of engineer headcount cost again on AI, which is a totally worthwhile exchange as it makes engineers much >20% as productive.
But that's assuming an average eng cost of £150k/year. If we were paying $30k/year then AI would've literally doubled our headcount cost.
Honestly, I don't see how a company that values labour at the price of offshoring the work is going to be able to make the maths work with premium frontier AI models. Those models are priced for Western company accounts and if you can't afford Western salaries, you're not going to be able to afford the models either.
I'd recommend you look at using open-source models instead of AI tooling from companies like Anthropic/OpenAI/etc. You'll be able to run them for 1/5th the cost which might even out the value exhange.
Immediate_Rhubarb430@reddit
Just feel the need to point out that 150k per employee is quite a bit across much of the Western world. In Spain, a comparatively wealthy westerm country, typical employee gross salaries are between 30 and 50k so I assume cost to the company of 100k or so
shared_ptr@reddit
That is fair! I think the same applies for those companies also though.
The value exchange of AI services, at least the large frontier models, is calculated on the basis that engineers using them are producing >many hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of revenue. It doesn’t make sense to spend that much on AI when you spend so little (again, relatively) on actual human headcount.
Remember, Nvidia’s CEO is going around telling people if they have an engineer spending <$500k on tokens that is a ‘concern’. If you have budgets for engineer salary more around the $30k a year mark then it’s useful to acknowledge you’re priced out of the frontier market, just as you are the top talent pool.
Is just economic reality!
Immediate_Rhubarb430@reddit
I fully agree. In fact it is funny to see the discourse around AI in American dominated subs when I come from this reality, as we avoid most of the hype, but also most of the gains sadly
Given how it's all going, I wonder if that will be a boon or a loss for us
shared_ptr@reddit
I think AI models for the purpose of software engineering are probably 90% ‘done’ in that Opus 4.8 is a fantastic model, I’m unsure what type of work you’d be doing that would require something better.
So when I consider it like that, and think that open source models are 6-9 months lagging frontier, that means in a year we’ll be able to run an Opus 4.8 equivalent model on our own hardware for 1/10th today’s cost and probably 3x as fast.
At that point this price point divide might be less of a problem? As cost of AI ‘intelligence’ essentially trends to zero.
Immediate_Rhubarb430@reddit
That's a good point. I also think there's a lot of technical innovations coming down the pipeline for reduced inference and training costs. The current architectures were already criticized as inefficient in 2020, I am sure we will figure out better ones.
I kinda hope we don't, though, as I enjoy coding and I will take my "AI is expensive" cost moat over no moat
shared_ptr@reddit
We absolutely will see this get way more efficient and effective, and it definitely will lower the cost.
What I find interesting is if you’re Anthropic or OpenAI you need to find the next big thing if what you’re currently selling becomes a commodity. And I think their current position is AI will be “always on” which is obviously 100x again the token usage of proactively triggered systems, so the music keeps playing.
SimianWorks@reddit
20 percent productivity boost? Ha.
shared_ptr@reddit
Just this morning I got Claude to rebuild a part of our product's dashboard into a much improved design over the course of three hours just chatting to it and 'pairing' on what we were building in the browser.
It was about 10 pages with several visualisations. That would've been multiple days work had I been doing this before AI, possibly more like a whole week.
SimianWorks@reddit
How much money did it make? What was the complexity of this internal tool compared to an enterprise project?
AI makes easy tasks easier and hard tasks harder.
shared_ptr@reddit
See above. The tool is all configuring telemetry connections into logs/metrics/traces and configuring them.
It's not hugely complex but getting the designs high finish and just iterating many times over takes time.
Actually super tricky uploading images now imgur is banned in the UK or I'd share some screenshots to show.
Just occurred to me this is probably the easiest way to share! https://www.notion.so/lawrencejones/Workbench-redesigns-37085213c45380978a3ef75ec61799bd?source=copy_link
likeittight_@reddit
And this is going to generate revenue, right?
shared_ptr@reddit
It's a bunch of the pages in the incident.io dashboard that our customers use to configure telemetry connections (connecting logs, metrics, traces, configuring memory for their systems, viewing the queries, etc).
I think in the last 24 hours we've landed $500k of new revenue. The company is doing really well, the product is well loved, all of the additional care quality and finish that we get out of AI is really appreciated by our customers.
So if the implication was is this a hobby project or something, no, it's not.
ReDucTor@reddit
With a 30k per year average, it seems like 8% of your workforce. Which even without layoffs a company could possibly absord that through attrition, online it looks like Indian has an average of 13-17% attrition rate in the IT industry.
It feels like someone should probably be evaluating the productivity, if you can easily justify a 6-7% productivity improvement that it's a cost that the company should make room for and cuts in other places.
edgmnt_net@reddit
And I bet even large US companies have such overseas exposure directly or indirectly. Whoever maxxed AI by now, also likely maxxed outsourcing in some way before AI was available. Not to mention that it's exactly the business models depending on horizontal scaling of work that are most likely to do that, so once you exclude smaller and denser core projects that rely on highly-qualified and expensive staff, the rest is hard to optimize in different ways, could already represent a big part of the revenue structure and you still don't have the ability to cut costs.
aruisdante@reddit
I highly doubt that that was 5-6 thousand engineers. That would be a quite large company by tech company size standards. And a company with 5,000 engineers would absolutely not baulk at a $1mil/month AI bill, since as you say that would likely represent less than 1% of their payroll.
More likely, the company employed a couple of hundred engineers or less, and the rest are all business, sales, accounting, design, marketing, and product management employees (and possibly retail employees). In that case, you could lay off 20% of your engineering workforce and not really move the needle at all, particularly since now everyone left winds up needing to use AI more.
The only way to solve the problem is to reduce scope and actively manage output. AI has allowed this org to essentially grow significantly in headcount without a clear business plan on how to actually use that headcount to make money.
SimianWorks@reddit
Also, given the widespread lack of AI ROI, we could just go back to doing our jobs like we use to.
aruisdante@reddit
It’s not that there isn’t ROI in the abstract sense. It’s that the ROI isn’t dramatically different than simply increasing headcount, especially if your company was already one that offshored a lot of their work. There is a reason the company already didn’t employ 900 extra low cost engineers, and that was there wasn’t a business need to do that. Managers got in their head that AI was essentially “free” and so started green lighting work they never would have approved if doing so had involved increasing headcount.
mindfulnessman14@reddit
This is basically how it looks from where I sit too, management treated AI like free extra headcount so they greenlit a bunch of low value work they never would have staffed normally.
SimianWorks@reddit
Put simply, once they don't see an ROI, or can't figure out how, they will pivot away just like Uber and others.
GaTechThomas@reddit
We found an actual senior engineer!
petrol_gas@reddit
Company with 5K employees might not have 50 devs and 150k is bonkers. Average non-dev employee is going to max out at 80. I’d expect layoffs are looking like 80-100. And then if the customers are the ones generating the spend, this me problem continues getting worse while the org cannabalizes itself.
No_Lingonberry1201@reddit
I see Anthropic's master plan worked out pretty well. Sorry to hear that, mate.
zazzersmel@reddit
Anthropic itself has no path to profitability. It’s like layer upon layer of privately funded subsidies until you hit nvidia. And loans.
TheRealSerdra@reddit
Supposedly they’re on track to their first profitable quarter. Obviously long term that relies on similar token spending and we may see companies tightening restrictions, but they certainly do have a path to profitability
No_Lingonberry1201@reddit
I thought they had revenue, not profit. I really want to read their SEC filings once they go public. Same with OpenAI.
No_Lingonberry1201@reddit
A literal circlejerk, yeah. It's clear as day for anyone with a brain, which is why investors don't see it.
yxhuvud@reddit
We do not know if it worked until the dust settles. It depends on what is left of AI usage once the beancounters are happy, and right now they are starting to become markedly less happy.
No_Lingonberry1201@reddit
"Working," as in this is exactly what Anthropic wants, not necessarily what's actually putting dogfood on the table.
softwaredoug@reddit
I wonder if high token spends are a culture smell.
The speed of AI coding is like showing up at a tempting buffet of high calorie foods and gorging yourself. You'll regret it later.
The temptation is to go fast. But the real move is to use AI to go slower and write better code
https://nolanlawson.com/2026/05/25/using-ai-to-write-better-code-more-slowly/
therealslimshady1234@reddit
I dont think there is any kind of AI that is good for your code.
I mean, it's like saying a little bit of cocaine can help you get better results. You can see how fallacious that is.
In any case, in no universe will the suits allow us to use AI to write better code more slowly.
PoopStickss@reddit
You genuinely believe AI has no place in coding?
Do you use it?
therealslimshady1234@reddit
Yes, every day. Opus 4.8 enterprise
You can use it but the more you do the more the drawbacks become apparent
softwaredoug@reddit
Capitalism might have something to say when you build a buggy, unreliable product nobody wants to buy cause you churned slop out nonstop.
therealslimshady1234@reddit
Capitalism, yes. Late stage capitalism is quite different.
Remember how your washing machine and fridge lasted 10-20 years easily?
SimianWorks@reddit
Go slower? Did anyone tell c-suite about this?
bonisaur@reddit
I’ve been warning people about this from the start. We don’t know the real final prices for these tools. Huge companies won’t care because they’ll be building in house models and tooling for their employees to use. But until it scales to that level it’s a huge risk to just assume prices are not going up.
miredalto@reddit
This sounds like bad framing. Are you getting at least $1m of value from your $1 million spend? If so, what are you complaining about? Accountants whining about cutting costs rather than generating revenue is the standard sign of a 'past it' company.
If you are not getting $1m of value then you need to take a hard look at why, because that appears to be a pretty unusual situation. AI is certainly overhyped, but not to that degree.
SimianWorks@reddit
Not unusual at all. It's a signal that is growing.
miredalto@reddit
Well, maybe. But in that case the answer is obvious: no AI for you unless you can get positive value from it.
aruisdante@reddit
Congratulations. Your company “quite hired” a bunch of engineers (because that’s essentially what AI is: cheap junior engineers, that need to spend (tokens instead of time as the unit of billing) on reasoning about things because they have no inherent knowledge or understanding of problems, got used to the productivity of having a much larger organization cranking out features, and now are surprised that the payroll ballooned accordingly.
There is no magic free lunch, I’m afraid.
03263@reddit
Except humans can learn from experiences and grow into better engineers. Granted new models improve on old ones, but that's disconnected from the spend on tokens whereas spending on time is paying for that growth to occur.
kaekiro@reddit
I'm mentoring a junior right now, and trying very hard to teach AI is a tool, but you can't blindly trust it, and you have to be able to understand what it says to know when it is wrong. Most of what I'm focusing on is not coding but logic, troubleshooting skills, interconnectivity, etc, bc code cannot dig you out of a poorly architected hole. I think those are the skills that are missing and why we're seeing so much slop getting pushed to prod.
aruisdante@reddit
Absolutely. AI turned everyone into tech leads. There is a reason you don’t make an L3/4 engineer a tech lead. The slop we see is exactly what you’d get if you put a junior engineer in charge of a team of 3-5 other junior engineers/interns.
Zerrb@reddit
Our company is small in comparison, around 40 people. We've begun adopting AI company wide and we're encouraged to ask for more tokens once we hit our limits, and in Claude it's really easy to do because it's integrated into both the CLI and the desktop app.
I'm very worried about this, but I feel like I'm the only one. We have devs who basically can't develop once they hit their token limit. I'm thinking that the cost is gonna go up and soon enough management will start raising eyebrows, then Anthropic will bump its prices and there will be layoffs.
I feel like we've been given a tool that requires us to think less, while thinking is our most valuable skill.
Wide-Pop6050@reddit
I'm at a slightly larger company but we're at exactly this point. One of the engineers actually brought up "what will happen if Anthropic increases prices" and proposed some type of audit of our AI usage.
SawToothKernel@reddit
I'm really surprised more people aren't just switching to the top tier Chinese models, which are significantly cheaper. Why does everyone default to the latest opus or gpt?
AwesomePurplePants@reddit
Because they are hoping for the kind of performance that can significantly displace labour, not just an effective AI assistant.
Idea-Aggressive@reddit
Management is tracking those requests, sooner or later they’ll realise the LLM is doing the heavy lifting.
NickFullStack@reddit
What I’ve been doing is building my own agent harness. I use multiple models from various providers (Hugging Face, Moonshot, DeepSeek, etc.). And I have custom workflows that choose the cheaper models where appropriate and increase tiers dynamically as needed.
If you did that, you could explicitly control model choice and even do things like rate limiting. Many of the other models are a fraction of the cost of OpenAI/Anthropic, but still nearly as capable.
You could also host your own models on local hardware. Way cheaper in the long run.
Alternative_Win_6638@reddit
The thing is most devs don't know how to use AI effectively, and this is because most devs don't know how to run a development process effectively. From my experience, you can increase the outcome per token 10 times if you follow a structured, documented, traditional software dev process, feeding the requirements, design and plans to the AI Assistant as a context. To work with AI effectively, devs should concentrate on specifying and planning rather than coding.
immbrr@reddit
At my company, each person has a monthly quota. You can request increases but beyond a certain point you really gotta justify it to your manager/IT/someone further up. Haven't heard any complaints about the policy.
nintendo_dad@reddit
What are people doing with these models and workflows? I code through Cursor + Opus for almost everything these days, multiple tasks in parallel, and I don't come anywhere close to spending even $1000 a month.
Are folks just accessing MCPs for everything? Having an LLM read their Slack?
seilatantofaz@reddit
Big projects can consume a lot of tokens, specially for context-gathering and planning. And yes, MCP for everything, including slack, atlassian, git, data warehouse and production DBs, metrics, logs.
Those tools are specially valuable for investigations / incidents. Recently I've been able to perform investigations in ~2 hours that would have taken at least a couple of days without AI (and probably with less quality than AI).
nintendo_dad@reddit
MCPs are notoriously expensive, but if it can save time, specially in an incident response, then it's worth it.
I just wonder if folks are offloading too much, and using MCPs for non critical tasks, and thus, burning through their tokens super fast.
AlmightyLiam@reddit
Nobody reveals this info to us developers at my company. My boss has been pushing heavy for me to improve on some AI Agent workflow.
I’ve mentioned the cost changes coming June 1 multiple times, but even at his level nobody has made him aware of the impact we could face next month. Hopefully it’s not sustainable because I’m not a fan of the way my leadership wants us to use AI.
PricedOut4Ever@reddit
I heard a perspective one time that really stuck with me.
It claimed that the director/VP level up at most companies views their role as looking across the industry, taking current trends, and applying it downward.
It makes sense if you think of the way Harvard case studies are taught in business school. But, it also leads to this really silly tendency for group think. The people who rise in power at most orgs are truly the “influenced”.
It’s really bad in tech and is the reason we have these trends like mass hiring in 2021, mass firing in 2023, rebrand as an AI company, adopt AI and don’t worry about limits so we can figure out where it fits in our flows, etc. Your colleagues throwing out layoffs as a solution are just echoing trends they have seen.
Try to have an original thought brother.
puuut@reddit
Yeah! That’s what I’ve been saying: once again, we have discovered the business-IT alignment problem. The fix still is: put people that really know how to develop software to reach business goals in charge. But no, the MBA crowd wanted some of that sweet software need money and convinced each other that it was not that hard and there was no need to learn about details.
pseudo_babbler@reddit
And they were STOKED when AI came along and proved that they never had to learn how to do that hard stuff, and it was good, actually, that they never seemed to be able to work out how computers work. Those dumb nerds wasted their time because now you can just AI all the things and make money.
(I watched my old CTO and GM of Tech both of whom did business degrees and never wore a line of logic in their lives, just literally gushing with hysteria over how AI teams are going to AI the code with agents AI, MCPs and skills and things blah. The looks of glee on their faces, omg.)
puuut@reddit
Haha :) Indeed, that, too, although I was mostly thinking about the delivery process more than thinking about coding. The nerds shouldn’t be let off the hook either, ‘they’ (we) are also to blame, having focused so much on tooling, tech, and gatekeeping. The problem has always been to produce something that helps organizations succeed, and just tech, or just ‘business’ isn’t enough, there should be alignment towards a goal. I was really stoked about the DevOps movement, and the Agile movement, the cloud movement, etc. But eventually, once such a movement gains traction, its initial wisdom gets diluted, only buzzwords remain, and the true understanding of the problems gets lost in the sauce.
Annual_Negotiation44@reddit
Every industry had mass hiring in 2021 because of cheap money. Tech was just slightly more extreme
SimianWorks@reddit
I don't see where he said it exclusively hit the tech industry.
gigio123456789@reddit
Yea and all these brainless schmucks are now brain hive connected via LinkedIn so the dumbest nonsense spreads like wildfire now.
roger_ducky@reddit
The way to reduce costs:
Find ways to insert tooling and commands the agents can use to verify things, rather than have agents verify it “manually” by reading files.
In fact, most times after you do that, you can drop down to lower cost models without issues.
House13Games@reddit
Those costs would have been much easier to control with employees, but now you're completely at the mercy of large AI corporations reknowned for nerfing their products and tightening limits.
kittysempai-meowmeow@reddit
I’ve tried to warn the powers that be that the pricing is about to skyrocket and they might want to slow down on encouraging (aka demanding) everyone to use it more. But now they have said they expect everyone to use it so… ok.
mothzilla@reddit
make happy when use caveman
make layoff
shareholder value big moon
https://github.com/JuliusBrussee/caveman
kagato87@reddit
That worth spin for funnies. Token saving bonus.
mothzilla@reddit
fat wife winter strong son see you see
Idea-Aggressive@reddit
For accountability, contributors can pay for their own LLM usages.
likeittight_@reddit
Finally an intelligent answer
Big_Bed_7240@reddit
Lol
raddiwallah@reddit
We are at 10 million a month.
_5er_@reddit
LLM companies: - Step one - hook everyone - Step two - increase cost - Step three - buy every employee a Ferrari
fatman13666@reddit
luce
ggblah@reddit
Have you tried asking Claude for an advice?
Redditbayernfan@reddit
Try 20 million lol, it’ has become insane
fmgiii@reddit
That's been my observation as well. Improvement is marginal at best. Oh the tangled webs we weave.
k032@reddit
At $1m a month, you could probably save a lot capping the frontier models, buying on-prem infrastructure for Gemma, Deepseek, Qwen etc to be unlimited (ish) and a ops team to manage it.
Servers like that may be like $3-$5 million ?
aussiemcgr@reddit
The future of AI and worker performance will be a measurement of how much work an individual can do with as few tokens as possible, opposed to the current mindset of praising high token usage. Training people to construct precise prompts to get precise results is the answer.
The cost of Enterprise AI will likely never go down. In a few years, there will be probably 2 major AI players dominating the industry, exactly like how AWS and Azure have taken over the cloud industry. As is with the cloud industry, the high cost of physical hardware will keep new large players out of the industry. There will be no market forces to encourage lowering costs and it will be 100% about "how much can we squeeze out of Enterprise". Individuals will use open source AI solutions, but businesses will always prefer the high cost Enterprise versions.
besthelloworld@reddit
I literally have no idea how this is possible with the current pricing. I use the $20 Claude Code plan and have only exceeded my usage a couple times, only to have it reset like 30 minutes later. I walk the dogs or have lunch and then I'm back at it.
This being said, I never use Opus because when Sonnet doesn't meet my needs, I just do it myself 🫠
I know the current pricing is totally a fake entry level thing, but still. If you have the $100 tier, I don't get how you can run out even if you use Opus all day.
CatDawgCatDawg2@reddit
You're a manager in a 5k employee company and you were involved in preliminary layoff discussions? Riiiiiiiight
martiantheory@reddit
There’s a scene in the movie the big short where Steve Carell says “it’s a bubble!”… it’s a hard cut to him saying it and it’s hilarious and I wish I had that GIF for all the stuff I’m seeing on the Internet…
I don’t think AI is a bubble in the sense that AI is fake or going to go away. I think AI is a bubble in the sense that people think it’s a magic bullet, they’re overinvesting and not getting return on their money, and the companies were all sending money to aren’t even making money. We’re investing billions in something that’s just sorta, cool, but not delivering enough measurable value to the market to justify the cost in money, human suffering, environmental degradation, etc…
I sincerely think AI should be as popular and widespread as car insurance at this point. Sure most people benefit from it, but we don’t need to be re-restructuring the whole goddamn economy around it.
It’s going to be weird to watch these next 10 years. I feel like there’s gonna be some small subset of people and companies that explode into the stratosphere financially, and there’s gonna be a big portion of the economy that corrects even harder than is happening right now. More layoffs? A stock market crash? Who knows? But we are not steering the ship responsibly lol
Plus_Fill_5015@reddit
Is this TAG UK? sounds like it
ZunoJ@reddit
I wonder if productivity is through the roof as well /s
Tymew@reddit
Selling the tires to pay for fuel.
VRT303@reddit
Does that adoption actually translate to any significant measurable improvements before the AI adoption? More features that bring more customers or money?
If not, think hard about it lol
SimianWorks@reddit
Not that anyone has seen.
HoratioWobble@reddit
You know, you don't HAVE to use AI. Right?
SimianWorks@reddit
Tell that to my CTO.
Telvin3d@reddit
Easy answer then. You’re spending $1m/month on something that’s not delivering results. Just cut AI use completely for any department that can’t show productivity gains that justify the cost.
Now, when can I export consultancy fee?
turningsteel@reddit
And what are those teams using AI for?
'How can I center this div? Do it right this time Claude! '
Or perhaps 'write this test for me, but this time make it pass'.
Is using it as a Google search really worth the cost?
Whomever suggested layoffs to counter AI costs has lost the plot.
SomeWonOnReddit@reddit
You are all so stupid. I said this would happen.
You think “professionals” would have learned from the cloud saying it is cheaper and we are going to safe costs only to end up being more expensive.
NuclearVII@reddit
Hey, here's a thought: Stop creating AI slop engagement bait posts, how's that for saving tokens?
SimianWorks@reddit
Are you enraged by the post? I'm not.
SurpriseOk6927@reddit
1M a month on AI tools is wild but not surprising. the real issue is nobody planned for this line item when they started adopting. budgets from 2024 look like fiction now. curious what happens when the CFO finally looks at the per-seat costs
SimianWorks@reddit
Ask Uber CEO
Tight-Requirement-15@reddit
Lean AI tokenmaxxing teams
SimianWorks@reddit
Lol @ tokenmaxxing. Fucking wild.
vladlearns@reddit
Scum masters
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
Scummaxxers
Moonskaraos@reddit
I work at a large F500 company and people have recently started talking about this.
JudgementallyGloomy@reddit
the real issue is you're not actually measuring what the ai spend is delivering. if teams can't quantify productivity gains or revenue impact per dollar spent, you're just throwing money at a shiny tool. start there before you touch quotas or layoffs. make departments own their costs and justify roi, not just "claude is better than cheaper models."
SimianWorks@reddit
Amen.
SimianWorks@reddit
Curious no one has mentioned the statements quoted recently by Uber CEO regarding AI. Google it.
bombaytrader@reddit
My company has no company. We have blown 15 times that.
Livid_Conversation59@reddit
I'm curious if anyone else has seen a similar trend in their company's AI adoption. We've also seen explosive growth in AI spending, and I think it's because leadership is still figuring out how to measure the ROI of these tools. Has anyone else had issues with leaders asking teams to justify their use of high end models?
JuliusCeaserBoneHead@reddit
I thought this road was a couple years ahead of us but knowing it would take a few months for this to start happening.
AI spend will exceed human labor costs for every single company. When that happens, we should see a big change in how executives think about AI spend
Annual_Negotiation44@reddit
Lower spend on AI?? The Nasdaq might not like that…
Idea-Aggressive@reddit
Isn’t cost of inference going to keep lowering?
AwesomePurplePants@reddit
Probably. But will it happen in a predictable way? And are there chokepoints like available power and voter backlash?
The possibility of things working out in the long run doesn’t mean they can’t be going tits up today.
ben_bliksem@reddit
Our enterprise architects have been looking at ways to formalise ways of working with AI, standardising processes etc. All very good stuff have to say, but the amount of markdown files being generated is all going to end up as context bloat. No amount of /caveman skills is gonna save you from that.
Bushwazi@reddit
“People won’t know how to do the in job once we take AI away due to the cost”. What did they do a year ago?
Idea-Aggressive@reddit
These people don’t contribute. It’s an illusion! There’s a lot of movement, looks like hard work, lots of output but no outcome. LLMs just help generate more of that illusion. Most companies I’ve seen, have a small percentage of actual doers, the rest are quite useless booking meetings and sharing baby photos on general channel.
Bushwazi@reddit
OMG the baby photos part really brought it home. We may work at the same company!
JCMS99@reddit
Every large company is on the same boat. They pushed it down our throats. Copilot pricing change was expected to eventually happened but not so fast without only 1 month advance notice.
A month ago they were telling us to use Opus (on copilot) so we can get good enough one-prompt our tasks. Now this month we got Claude Code and we’re being gaslit and token shamed for busting the $200 quota they gave us. They’re being told by the consultant they hired for the strategy that most dev should be <$3 of usage per day.
seilatantofaz@reddit
1M dollars for 5k employees ($200/month) is actually not high at all. Some companies are a magnitude above that. Personally that's less than what I spend a day.
teomees@reddit
Frankly speaking this could be the most effective short-term way to quench the AI hype bubble that herky-jerkily grew.
Some small and mid-size companies I know (not FAANG ofc) are hesitating to mandate AI because it is so costly for them. The expense of AI is yet to be noticed.
InterestedBalboa@reddit
Stay with me here, you could try….not using it…..shocking I know. Bucking the trend and actually do your own work instead of slopping it with AI.
Everyone is just following the hype train, mostly for their CV when using human intelligence (that you’re already paying for) works fine.
CmdrSausageSucker@reddit
I am hearing about costs only here. What is the measurable number that shows that spending the money is justified? What is the outcome? Which departments actually produce more oomph / product / whatever?
This is being approached from the wrong angle.
shared_ptr@reddit
That is fair! I think the same applies for those companies also though.
The value exchange of AI services, at least the large frontier models, is calculated on the basis that engineers using them are producing >many hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of revenue. It doesn’t make sense to spend that much on AI when you spend so little (again, relatively) on actual human headcount.
Remember, Nvidia’s CEO is going around telling people if they have an engineer spending <$500k on tokens that is a ‘concern’. If you have budgets for engineer salary more around the $30k a year mark then it’s useful to acknowledge you’re priced out of the frontier market, just as you are the top talent pool.
Is just economic reality!
VictoryMotel@reddit
Just wait until you have fix all the nonsense it produced.
mechkbfan@reddit
I've noticed a trend recently of optimising for token usage on LinkedIn/YouTube recently
e.g. Getting local LLMs to do a bunch of stuff, but when you need a large context then you pay for Claude.
Also some models like DeepSeek have a much better cache hit rate but I haven't tried it yet.
Cool_As_Your_Dad@reddit
And this is cheap tokens. They havent even started to make back their ROI.
Wait till they starting to wanting make profits. Those token are going to skyrocket.
And replacing their gpu etc each year or two etc
SynthaLearner@reddit
good
dragon_irl@reddit
That's ~200USD per month and employee.
Obv the number of active users is lower, but that sounds pretty harmless cost wise?
nomiinomii@reddit
Why can't you add quotas.
We were given $1500 worth of tokens last month, but this month was only $600 and were told to manage usage.
Bricktop72@reddit
They can't add quotas because it sounds like they have zero governance around AI usage.
PmMeCuteDogsThanks_@reddit
I'm not seeing this at all. Our AI spending is about 7-8% of dev payroll, before AI was introduced. Payroll has decreased by \~40%, and we as an organisation is so much more effective.
DryHumourBotR4R@reddit
When you call a company midsize with 5-6k employees lol
ReDucTor@reddit
When FAANG companies have 100k+ employees it's not unreasonable to think these are midsize.
tom-smykowski-dev@reddit
Quotas is a good direction, especially if combined with a process to optimise usage that is repetitive and expensive.
mq2thez@reddit
They’re doing what you incentivized them to do. You’ll have to introduce limits, and more importantly, you’ll have to start cutting scope.
That much AI usage doesn’t just happen. It means some kind of pressure pushed people.
chat_not_gpt@reddit
What helped us was having caps on token spend and consistently educating on techniques for lower token usage. It's not going to make the spend zero but it is effective at making it manageable.
Polite_Jello_377@reddit
Thank you for subsidising my team subscription 👍
SawToothKernel@reddit
What models are you using?
ReDucTor@reddit
Is that $1m for all 5k-6k people?
$1m for 5-6k people is $150-$200 per engineer, it's definately on the high end but I would expect an organization of that size to be able to cover that if it seems like productivity is actually increasing. To put in in perspective if your engineers salary+bonus+total package is $200k each that is roughly the cost of 60 engineers, or 1% of your employees.
That's possibly even something a company that size seems like it could absurd through turnover and less hiring.
invisible_shrek@reddit
LOL. LMAO even. How are you measuring ROI on that spend? If management at your company was competent in any way they would know whether it’s positive or negative and act accordingly. But instead they’re just blowing a million bucks a month and that’s on VC subsidies. Good fucking luck lol.
Aggressive_Ad_5454@reddit
AI isn’t the first human endeavor to get ‘em hooked and then squeeze out every last drop of blood. Sorry to hear about this happening to your company.
Single-Pen-726@reddit
Dont feel sorry. In another post he said 70% of the workforce is in India. Theyve already fired all the expensive devs and cant fire anymore. Dont feel bad for them they've reached the fire and hire cheaper endgame.
itgforlife@reddit
I think that a lot of companies with the resources these days are seeing if they can at least maintain productivity while significantly reducing costs with offshoring + AI. If they did that, they probably assumed that the AI models would at least be cheaper for longer. Obviously it starts becoming less worth it the more that offshore dev + AI costs approach US dev salary. And if it starts to become more expensive, then it basically makes zero sense.
keelanstuart@reddit
The ol' drug dealer's "the first one is free!"
UsefulReplacement@reddit
I have 2 Pro subscriptions and use CodexBar to estimate my token costs if I were paying API rates.
Well, it's $11k a month between the 2 accounts.
IReallyLoveAvocados@reddit
I’m not sure if we are in the same boat spend wide because I don’t see those numbers, my pay grade isn’t high enough. However I definitely can see this happening because the incentives are all messed up. First of all everyone is spending someone else’s money (the company’s), and they are incentivized to get their work done as fast as possible. PMs want their products done faster. Engineers get things done faster and then can take the rest of the day off. There’s no downside, from the perspective of any individual IC or PM, to using the best and most expensive model possible.
myaltaccountohyeah@reddit
From a data scientist's perspective:
Processes that use AI need to be benchmarked in a way that allows you to measure the outcome quality. Then you can easily see if switching to older/cheaper models really reduces the quality substantially.
If people just use AI as a chatbot for their daily work, there are lots of inefficiencies. There should be standardized AI apps or workflows that are optimized for the most common tasks. Much easier to balance token cost and output quality that way.
I would also just introduce fixed budgets per team or department based on their average previous spending. Cheap models should be set as the default in whatever AI platform you're using. This forces people not to always shoot the big guns at the small birds.
Far_Mathematici@reddit
1m per month means around 200$ per employee, that's not too much. Your payroll costs for 5k employee should be 30 million per month more or less.
Alternatively you use cheaper models or model with aggressive caching.
Dalcz@reddit
We don’t have quotas yet but I think it will come, and I think it should.
So your 1 and 2 makes sense to me.
Honestly is your AI spending getting you any ROI? Most of AI usage is overkill and lazyness so must come to a point that we should really think twice if we need it before using it.
It’s a good tool, but we need to rationalize it, especially given the ressources it consumes.
Federal_Decision_608@reddit
You have 5k employees and $1M monthly spend is a lot for you?
Sure hope you're paying a lot more than $200/mo average salary lol
thisismyfavoritename@reddit
lmao
Quick-Benjamin@reddit
Some of the open source models are very close to frontier performance. In my opinion they're only about 6 months behind. Especially for specific use cases like coding.
I can see in the medium to long term that it's going to be cheaper for companies to host their own domain centric open source models on their own hardware. Either cloud or on prem.
That gives a fixed monthly spend that can be budgeted for more easily. Of course there's a shortage of ram and GPUs so that's an issue with this idea.
mehtheswede@reddit
You are too bloated and probably need to lay people off. AI costs money
GotAim@reddit
I’m not sure that I really understand your concern. You have 6000 employees but acting like 1 million dollars is some crazy number. It’s like less than 1% of your operational costs
seanlabor@reddit
Just introduce a limit per employee and the problem will solve itself.
There are definitely ways to save tokens and be more economical, if there is no incentive or limit, of course why bother
moremattymattmatt@reddit
Firstly look at consolidating the licensing to see if you can get it cheaper if you use one provider for everyone.
Secondly start consolidating processes instead of everybody doing their own thing, for example may be you need a shared context stores at the company, department and team levels. Or you have common agents where somebody has spent the time making sure they work effectively and efficiently.
Thirdly look at metrics and get people to prove their AI spend is adding more value than it costs.
Fourthly, teams/departments should have an over all budget. They can choose to spend more on ai and less on people if they want but the costs need to be as close as possible to the people incurring them.
Unfortunately this is a company level problem and no amount of tweaking individual teams will fix it.
throwaway_0x90@reddit
Hmmm.... are you really allowed to share that screenshot publicly?
sassasmebas@reddit (OP)
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Four-ai-spending-has-gotten-so-high-that-layoffs-wouldnt-v0-z80t0q7s994h1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Da5e98f47e6b32eaf6304cd8aabb9f59a8fc66836