Lucid Motors tells customer the cars are 'not designed to be parked outside in the winter', need alignments several times per year, and thier ADAS sending you into oncoming traffic is your fault.

It is mostly a non factor in range though. A basic, commodity electric motor you can buy from harbor freight is 93% effecient. Lucid is probably somewhere around 97%. As part of the whole system of where energy goes, that 4% is not a lot. Real world, it might be worth 5 or 10 miles of range over a basic motor, simply because a 4% improvement in motor efficiency isn't a 4% improvement in range, but only a fraction of that.

It really is the dumbest engineering wank that sounds impressive, but really isn't because it is a lot of cost and effort for such a marginal gain.

[-]

A_Pointy_Rock@reddit

You should look into their motors. I was not talking about energy loss. They are actually very impressive.

[-]

BillyJohnsFinds@reddit

Honestly other than a few bugs and glitches(I know others have had more issues) , the Air was the best car I owned till I totaled it. Some aspects of it were more even more fun to drive on backroads than my M2 (amazing steering, great suspension), and it had 7 Series levels of interior space and rear legroom while being smaller than a new 5 Series.

[-]

Dark_Knight2000@reddit

It’s a fantastic engineering exercise made by extremely talented people but woefully inadequate in terms of being an actual product. The business end of the company is mostly to blame, poor QA, poor customer service,

[-]

kira913@reddit

Sad that their QA is so poor given the cost of the vehicle and the whole insistence upon being "luxury"

[-]

The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit

It's a phenomenally engineered car in some ways and clearly made by car enthusiasts, but I keep hearing this stuff and being afraid to even lease one.

[-]

KderNacht@reddit

Not even Mercedes-Benz have the cheek to say they are the best car in the world. It was always 'the best or nothing'.

[-]

PurpleSausage77@reddit

The bunch of billions from the Saudi’s, and the money raised from the SPAC/investors.

But yeah, wonder how long they will last going like this.

[-]

TowardsTheImplosion@reddit

Lucid dreams?

[-]

sioux612@reddit

I cross shopped it with the m5 and it was a hard decision at the time

I dont use self driving stuff beyond cruise control so I never even tested that part

And it drove so nice, the interior is massive and the massage seats are the single best massage seats ive ever been in

Also the lease offer I got was seriously ridiculous, 25k km per year, 12 or 18 months I cant quite recall, for 1111 euro a month

And for 12 months I can live with not having android auto and wonky button feel

Not sure about alignment etc

In the end I went with the m5 and outside of me hating piano black interiors and the tank being a bit small I have not a single thing to complain about

[-]

franksandbeans911@reddit

Man I like your garage. I have an XC60 T6 and wanna try the T8, and you got the big daddy model with the extra seats in the back.

[-]

sioux612@reddit

The 7 seater is nice on occasion, but if I could id get the four seater version that they originally offered for a single year

Also unfortunately you notice the age of the platform, the hybrid system works, but its just by far not as well rounded as other manufacturers

[-]

dagelijksestijl@reddit

Because Tesla normalised this shit

[-]

5tudent_Loans@reddit

Based on their stock price, they probably wont be for very long

[-]

RBR927@reddit

Saudi Arabia

[-]

ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Even the Saudis will get tired of funding this money pit eventually

[-]

V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

No reason they would easily to drop off because they know most world to rid off the oil and oil depletion. They need to look other business to keep their economical, auto industry is exactly one of these ways.

[-]

RobinsShaman@reddit

They dropped their golf venture. Lost billions.

[-]

Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

If you view LIV as a way to get the PGA to come to the negotiating table it arguably did its job

[-]

mustangfan12@reddit

Yeah especially because Chinese EVs are so good and are taking the EU by storm. The only big market they have left to thrive in is America which is also shunning EVs. Even most rich people would rather drive a gas car than EV

[-]

Snoo93079@reddit

America isn't shunning EVs. We're just slower to adopt

[-]

Sandy_Koufax@reddit

They set up a factory in Saudi Arabia. It might become a jobs program.

[-]

avboden@reddit

Probably soon, given they just dumped golf and a bunch of other investments

[-]

Lower_Kick268@reddit

Because they make the nicest American car, they just have issues they gotta work out

[-]

Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

For the last one at least, that's just the average ADAS system, particularly from a new manufacturer or one taking their first go. It's shockingly acceptable for cars to have kamikaze tendencies (especially around lane centering) in the name of safety.

BYD in particular were notorious for it in the early 2020s, though they have apparently gotten better, and it clearly hasn't stopped customers buying their cars. The Leapmotor C10 and entire GAC Aion range still decide to try and LowTierGod themselves from time to time, and both sell well overseas (bit less in Australia).

[-]

LifeForm8449@reddit

Tesla makes it seem like starting a car company is a viable option

[-]

profmathers@reddit

All it took for Tesla to stay afloat at the same stage was to lie to Diamler and the feds. Elon may never be prosecuted, but he's a felon.

[-]

LifeForm8449@reddit

The world leaders are all felons according to you but you’re the one that’s sad and alone

[-]

cars-ModTeam@reddit

Thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed.

Please read the removal notice carefully. Your post falls into one or more (but not necessarily all) of the following categories:

We do not do politics in r/cars. If you have questions, please read this link.
If your post is about cars and politics, please post in r/CarsOffTopic

Please read the rules and the chain of action regarding removed comments and moderator actions before continuing to post. If you have any questions, please read the rules first and feel free to message the mods if you still have concerns.

Please do not send PMs or chat requests to individual moderators. They will not reply.

[-]

profmathers@reddit

Sorry didn’t see this right away, I was having dinner with the family you know far too little about to include in your projection. Touch some grass, homie

[-]

cars-ModTeam@reddit

Thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed.

Please read the removal notice carefully. Your post falls into one or more (but not necessarily all) of the following categories:

We do not do politics in r/cars. If you have questions, please read this link.
If your post is about cars and politics, please post in r/CarsOffTopic

Please read the rules and the chain of action regarding removed comments and moderator actions before continuing to post. If you have any questions, please read the rules first and feel free to message the mods if you still have concerns.

Please do not send PMs or chat requests to individual moderators. They will not reply.

[-]

Mental_Medium3988@reddit

elon also got in at the right time with the recession and gm unloading a factory for next to nothing.

[-]

profmathers@reddit

Some of the best cars ever made came from that plant. Twice.

[-]

Mental_Medium3988@reddit

the vibe and those tacoma are great vehicles

[-]

THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit

Because the Air is legitimately in the running for best super sports sedan ever created. I rented an Air Grand Touring on Turo to try it, and holy shit is it amazing. My buddy had a medium mod F10 M5 at the time and we made some digs, highway pulls, and bombed some back roads (in Mexico of course). Against the best sports sedan two generations ago making 640 whp the Air was the clear victor in every contest. That thing launches like a monster, I dont think a F90 M5 AWD would take a stock GT, and his RWD F10 didnt stand a chance from a dig. On the highway where his car is a certified portal to the next dimension I still took him from a 70 roll in the Air up to 130ish where he finally started reeling me in although I was still ahead when we lifted at 145ish. On the backroads the Air actually felt lighter on its feet and faster despite being on less sticky rubber (whatever high load EV all season Contis the Air was on vs PS4S). And the Air is ridiculously spacious and well laid out inside. Its just an insanely good car.

[-]

BassWingerC-137@reddit

1) They are well funded and 2) Without issues, and some do have issues, the car is built on an absolutely phenomenal chassis. Sure, anedotes and all, but it's lines of code away from being as good as a car gets. I'm on 3 months of 15 without issue.

[-]

Mental_Medium3988@reddit

oil money from the saudis.

[-]

bhop0073@reddit

I see them often in L.A.

[-]

2BlueZebras@reddit

Oil money.

[-]

BassWingerC-137@reddit

I've had my Air for 15 months and I've never been advised of this. The car is not perfect, but it is fantastic. They have their issues as do all cars but this kind of nonsense is useless.

Your link is to a 2-year old post on a social media plat from - certainly not an article and likely nothing worth spreading.

Do better.

[-]

Torczyner@reddit

All cars don't have those issues. That's a lot to put up with. Lucid is wildly bad, like the 80s Jaguars bad. Those same Jags were great cars in the same way.

[-]

franksandbeans911@reddit

Are you talking the rebadged Ford Tempo era Jags?

[-]

Dr__Nick@reddit

1980s is before Ford got involved.

[-]

RiftHunter4@reddit

I ended up getting a Kia EV4

Meme-worthy statement at the end though lol. The poster is a Masochist.

[-]

Simon676@reddit

The EV4 is a great car, what do you even mean with that?

[-]

RiftHunter4@reddit

Hyundai/Kia EV's are known for having ICCU issues and there's never been a fix for them.

Notnto mention, if the guy thinks dealing with Lucid Corporate was a pain, Hyundai and Kia ain't much of an upgrade in that regard.

[-]

notmuchgoingontoday@reddit

if I'm not mistaken only their 800v cars have ICCU issues. the EV4 is a 400v car. or have those developed ICCU issues as well?

[-]

Simon676@reddit

Yes, but the drivetrain is extremely reliable apart from that. And if you're one of the 5 percent of people with that issue you'll be very unlikely to have any other issues after that.

[-]

m0nty555@reddit

No, brand new 100k+ rarely have issues in the first few years of ownership. And if they have issues, they are sorted out after first visit to service centre. Idk how those new companies have brain washed consumers into believing that this is acceptable and normal.

[-]

turb0_encapsulator@reddit

what are you talking about? $100k+ cars typically have for more issues than mainstream $40k cars that are built in 100x the volume.

[-]

PalmSizedTriceratops@reddit

The link is to a forum post about arbitration that was updated TODAY?

[-]

JSC843@reddit

Be patient, they bought a Lucid. Critical thinking is challenging for them.

[-]

DakotaDevil@reddit

At least he admitted that he's had the car a whole 15 month and already had issues. If anyone is thinking about buying a Lucid right now they'd be better of just starting that cash on fire.

[-]

lamar_in_shades@reddit

You must be looking at the wrong date, the linked comment was posted this morning. Also, your positive anecdotal experience doesn't mean that others can't have severe problems. Engineering Explained's video about his Lucid ownership experience highlighted a lot of issues, none of which was as severe as the linked post, but it seems that Lucid has some significant design, quality control, and customer service issues.

[-]

mustangfan12@reddit

The newest update is from today on the post

[-]

Does_Not_Use_Clothes@reddit

Not trying to defend Luicid, but this is just a link to a forum not a news article.

[-]

mustangfan12@reddit

True but news outlets can eventually interview the owner on the forum or just simply repost the forum post

[-]

Does_Not_Use_Clothes@reddit

I know and i'm sure it's on the level, but people believe journalists typically because they have a body of work to which they've built trust with and have hopefully an education that has imparted certain standards upon them.

Anyone can write anything on a forum, they can lie, exaggerate, etc. They're anonymous.

Again, not defending Lucid.

[-]

jameson71@reddit

Got any modern examples of journalists building trust? Bonus points for work in federal politics.

[-]

Sun_Aria@reddit

Lucid to acquire a small EV startup.

Source: Trust me bro

[-]

Car-face@reddit

Definitely not defending Lucid, I don't think they'll be here for the long haul and it sounds like typical bullying tactics particularly since the OP was defending themselves, but I do expect legal to make any claim they can to put forward an argument for their client.

This feels more like CYA statements made by Lucid rather than a genuine attempt at avoiding a buyback - taking OP's issues at their word, it sounds like they're 100% entitled to a buyback due to a laundy list of issues so this is just Lucid's legal team doing what they're supposed to do to minimise further action beyond this one example. They're probably trying to be consistent in denying any blame regardless of result.

It does still reflect very poorly on Lucid from a PR perspective and how they deal with issues though, probably even more poorly than if they'd just fessed up to issues (or better - issued recalls for what are clearly issues with their cars). It's part of the US startup culture, though - if customers call to complain, unplug the phones and let the fires burn.

[-]

SithSidious@reddit

It’s too bad because lucid makes a compelling car and reviewers who never had to live with it say it drives great.

Unfortunately, I think stuff like this will really hurt the company. Engineering explained’s video/saga that ended in buyback is probably a huge blow, and all the news I hear is stuff like this. The appeal of the lucid is to the car enthusiasts who is also into tech and what is new, and that is the exact population that follows YouTube/car media.

[-]

aliendepict@reddit

My neighbors gravity has been in the shop more then out the last couple of months. He still claims its the beat car he has had, with the 300 miles he has put on it. IDK man, I he few times he has tried to show me it the software literally glitched out on him and it just seemed like the idea was right and the execution was far from it. Shame as i was looking but now im definitely not.

[-]

cowcowcows@reddit

Lucid buying back the car and then having the long term Gravity loaner also get taken away. What a mess.

[-]

The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit

Gravity he said he might not keep but did it actually go back?

[-]

Dgp68824402@reddit

Good to know what $100k gets you these days.

[-]

UncleBensRacistRice@reddit

Why the hell would it need several alignments per year?

[-]

franksandbeans911@reddit

Probably using spec sheets for suspension on cars that weigh half as much because they're not stuffed to the gills with battery packs would be my guess.

[-]

yourlocalFSDO@reddit

This is such a tired argument about EVs. The heaviest air weighs 5500lbs. An M5 weighs 5400lbs

[-]

AmazingELF74@reddit

The M5 is also extremely heavy. I remember its weight making a few headlines.

[-]

IsTheShibaInU@reddit

...that is not how an alignment spec is decided & written by an OEM for their vehicle

[-]

bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit

I feel bad for people who paid big money for their cars. They will depreciate like crazy and in a year or two there isn't going to be anyone left to service them and provide parts.

[-]

AttorneyAdvice@reddit

lucid is an excellent car to do a 2 year lease

[-]

2BlueZebras@reddit

I really want to like Lucid. It sucks that such a promising car has turned out to be so bad.

[-]

BassWingerC-137@reddit

It has some bugs, but is far from "so bad".

[-]

truthlesshunter@reddit

Yeah this user and one or two more are on a mission to ruin its rep online.

I was vehemently posting about the problems I had, but I endured them because it truly is an amazing car. But this is absolutely insane to be this obsessed.

I get it... Things didn't work out for them and a few others.. but christ, for most, it's one of the best, if not the best, car they've ever owned.

[-]

BassWingerC-137@reddit

I suppose some folks love to hate. They have zero experience themselves but stir up garbage to share their own personal misery or something.

[-]

zeek215@reddit

I don’t like Lucid, but that’s entirely because they are majority owned by the Saudi regime.

[-]

diplodonculus@reddit

Love my Gravity

[-]

8000RPM@reddit

I'd call bullshit. Test standards in automotive industry range from -40c to +120c. I call BS and I suspect they are just changing design requirements to avoid lawsuits.

[-]

testthrowawayzz@reddit

So are the Lucid cars good or not? I have seen people saying the cars are good/reliable and unreliable trash in separate posts in this sub. Kind of hard if the positive posts were from astroturfing at this point.

[-]

ikilledtupac@reddit (OP)

i think both are true

[-]

04limited@reddit

this is the difference between a legacy brand and a new start up.

A legacy brand isn’t making something that goes out of alignment or starts having issues when it gets rained on.

[-]

Tbro100@reddit

Well, outside of some specific outliers like Stellantis and JLR. Then there was that whole wheels falling off thing Cadillac had a while back with the SRX.

And the whole Hyundai killing a child in the back seat of their Palisade. Still not defending Lucid, but even legacy manufacturers will just randomly fail on the basic components of a car.

[-]

ZaheerAlGhul@reddit

Shut the brand down already

[-]

Intelligent_Top_328@reddit

Just let it die. Dirty saudi blood money.

[-]

hi_jack23@reddit

“We strongly feel that the reason the ADAS keeps sending the car into the oncoming lane is because of the lack of use of the turn signal, and/or the internal camera saw the user wasn't paying attention or was holding their cellphone, so nudged the wheel to "wake him up” “

I thought that Tesla’s way of kicking users out of self driving introduces a good amount of potential danger but holy fucking shit

[-]

gimpwiz@reddit

No turn signal = we try to kill you?

Honestly I am kind of here for it.

[-]

Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

Forget the Jeep Eliminator, Lucid have just dropped the BMW Eliminator

[-]

franksandbeans911@reddit

Oh playing candy crush XV while I do all the driving, eh?

WELCOME TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC

[-]

Tormidal@reddit

So, calls on $LCID?

[-]

765cc_Triple@reddit

Especially if they decide to convert their factory into an AI data center.

[-]

Tippyshortmouth@reddit

if anyone ever needs to know how shit of an investor i am, i held shares in this company for wayyyyyyyyyyy too long

[-]

THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit

Its a high performance lithium battery EV, no you shouldn't get it cold, just like any lithium batteried EV. The recommended alignment schedule is right in line with its competitors (Taycan Turbo, Etron GT, Model S Performance, etc), theyre all super heavy high torque performance sedans, they decimate tires if the alignment is off. And Dream Drive has had similar or less safety incidents than competition. These are all expected issues in this realm of advanced tech and Lucid is doing as well or better than its competition. What's your complaint here?

[-]

mustangfan12@reddit

I don't care how good their drivetrain and batteries are, they deserve to go bankrupt at this point

[-]

SharkBaitDLS@reddit

At this point they don’t even really have an advantage there anymore. BMW’s Neue Klasse, Mercedes’ MB.A, and Volvo’s SPA3 platform all are competitive on range and charging speed which used to be Lucid’s advantage on other Western companies.

[-]

mustangfan12@reddit

Wow your right, they've really caught up. Only advantage Lucid still has more HP, but even then once the electric M3 comes out they will lose that

[-]

franksandbeans911@reddit

I like how they get the basics so wrong (like opening doors) that Engineering Explained on Youtube is having them buy his car back, because tons of attempts haven't been able to correct the myriad bugs and problems he's experiencing. They've seen his videos, and he is always fair and calmly documents what he is experiencing. A really good beta tester, actually. So he has gone back and forth with them trying to get it right but it seems like something is fundamentally wrong with it.

The sheer chutzpah to show up out of nowhere, charge BMW prices, then sell cars that won't even let you open the freakin doors is outrageous to me. Maybe there's a good reason why new car companies don't just spawn every 5 years and succeed. Maybe it's harder than they think and these RC cars are no easier when it comes to basic mechanical demands.

[-]

gibson1963@reddit

Nope. No lucid for me. Too risky longtime ownership issues.

[-]

bob256k@reddit

lol welp guess won’t ever be buying one of those cars

[-]

darkbro66@reddit

I know a couple engineers who worked on lucid parts at tier 1 suppliers. I would never touch one of their vehicles, I honestly don't think they depreciate fast enough with how little the company seems to know about durability

[-]

OO_Ben@reddit

Lmao it's not even in snow it's when it's below freezing. So even if you have a garage, if it's not insulated and heated you're doing it wrong 🤣 what a joke of a company

[-]

moldy912@reddit

Customers are designed to live in California exclusively

[-]

executingsalesdaily@reddit

What a terrible post. Why is this even up still.

[-]

m0viestar@reddit

I mean Tesla has said the same thing. Along with car washes voiding your warranty

[-]

royalenocheese@reddit

Sounds like they're pissed that someone had the audacity to buy the car AND THEN DRIVE IT?!

clearly the drivers fault for not parking it in a garage until the lease was up.

[-]

uBoatjoe@reddit

Lucid, it’s not a car, it’s a concept. Guy drank the cool aid and decided afterwards he did not like the vehicle, it seems. Should have gotten a Jeep.

[-]

Nomad624@reddit

I really like these cars but I'm scared of even having one for a week, let along own one.

[-]

thebullishbearish@reddit

Its the arab fisker

[-]

Racer20@reddit

Holy shit, I'm in the auto industry and really want Lucid to succeed, but those responses are horrendous.

[-]

ikilledtupac@reddit (OP)

yeah they're not a great company that's for sure

[-]

Mother____Clucker@reddit

What a shame. I think the Air is a beautiful car and showed a lot of promise in the luxury EV game.

I really hope they can turn things around, but it sure isn't looking very promising.

[-]

TzarKazm@reddit

"Look anyone dumb enough to buy one of our cars needs to understand a few things. "

[-]

IStillLikeBeers@reddit

lol this could also be summarized as "lawyers will use even bad arguments to support their client's position"

What a nothingburger.

[-]

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.