Anon thinks Ellie is contradicting herself
Posted by Ok_Charity_707@reddit | greentext | View on Reddit | 64 comments
Posted by Ok_Charity_707@reddit | greentext | View on Reddit | 64 comments
Q_dawgg@reddit
Could never make me hate the last of us 2.
Faite666@reddit
Yeah but you're in the greentext subreddit. When they aren't too busy pretending they don't hate women and minorities while actively repeating harmful things about women and minorities they're repeating all of Asmongold's takes word for word while pretending they're better than asmongold
CIMARUTA@reddit
Same, loved it lol but I also don't get overly emotional about entertainment media
AnmolNukal7@reddit
Because babies are innocent duh
FuciMiNaKule@reddit
the blame is on the preggo lady though
OctopusFarmer47@reddit
I wouldn’t believe that the mass murderer lesbian was gonna let me live tbf
Faite666@reddit
Ellie was almost 100% going to kill her regardless yeah. She was wayyy too blinded by anger and grief and desire to catch Abby to let anyone who was present when Joel died to live
FuciMiNaKule@reddit
I mean any normal preggo lady wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.
OutrageousFanny@reddit
Yea she should have waited until baby was born and raised into adulthood, then one day BAM FUCK YOU BITCH
Nineflames12@reddit
Hold on. You mean to tell me that… revenge bad??
matijoss@reddit
KCD2 > TLOU2 just because it doesn't have this problem
Arachnid1@reddit
For real. Got to get revenge, did those who wronged us dirty as we did it, and it let us answer "Yeah, it made me feel better, totally worth it" to that tired ass question.
Revenge... good
Nineflames12@reddit
KCD2 > TLOU2 for every other reason too lmao
matijoss@reddit
True, what i was saying is that even if everything else was worse it would still be better due to that one reason
LeBRUH_James_@reddit
Why do chuds put the word "actively" into every single fucking sentence? Is there a way to passively try to stab someone??
jamiebob555@reddit
Do people seriously still use the word "chud"? Jesus, what a man child
LeBRUH_James_@reddit
Aww, baby is upset because it saw a nono word? 🥺 Should I cockfeed you to calm down? 🥺
EisKohl@reddit
Hold the knife while someone pushes someone into it when you're not paying attention... I guess
possiblyavillain@reddit
No joke that exact situation happened to a shipmate
ReturnRadio@reddit
I prefer to passive aggressively attempt my stabbings
devonfayr@reddit
> Game about "revenge is bad and makes people cross lines they know they shouldn't"
> Have protagonist go on revenge quest that leads her to repeatedly break her own moral codes
> Protagonist realizes she's gone too far and realizes what a hypocrite she's been
> Half the god damn audience: "Now hang on just a dang second there, bud - is there hypocrisy here?! That's bad writing!!!1"
OOP discovers characters being written irrationally on purpose. Someone get him a fucking nobel prize.
Biggu5Dicku5@reddit
It's just not a well written game...
Ronin_777@reddit
She could have pointed anywhere on the map to throw her off but instead decides to attack her. There were so many other cards she could have played first like telling her she’s pregnant to spare her but nope, straight to the knife. Nevermind that pregnant women have increased self preservation instinct.
The whole scene was contrived all so Ellie could have a “what have I le done???” moment.
SpaceOdysseus23@reddit
It genuinely isn't. The amount of Deus Ex Machina moments for Ellie or Abby to keep on trucking is insane. Yet people pretended it's a narrative masterpiece. The amount of awards this game collected is insane.
Gameplay was sublime though.
KennKennyKenKen@reddit
What Deus Ex machina moments or you just parrot the same shit you see online
SpaceOdysseus23@reddit
Off the top of my head there's the Tommy chase scene, where a newly-crippled woman spawns behind him to save Abby's life even though up to that moment there was a high-pace chase sequence where there's zero probability of her keeping up, especially since she stayed back initially.
Or, in Ellie's case, when she's speared through the stomach by a branch and hangs upside down for a couple of hours, bleeding out. But then she just shrugs it off and goes on to continue her kill-streak and even has a death match with Abby.
KennKennyKenKen@reddit
That's not Deus Ex Machina. Those are examples of poor scene planning or execution.
Do you even know what Deus Ex Machina means?
The writer's could have not written the part Ellie got stabbed by a twig, and it would make 0 difference to the story.
Same as when Tommy is choking Abbie, and Yara saves her. They could have never wrote the scene to have Tommy choking her and need saving,she just managed to shove him into the water, Yara would never have had to teleport to save Abby but it would make 0 difference to the overarching story.
Like I said, parroting shit you've seen online without actually understanding what it means 👌
Stlr_Mn@reddit
“Deus ex machina is a Latin phrase meaning "god from the machine". It is a plot device used in storytelling where a seemingly unsolvable or hopeless problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected, unlikely occurrence or outside intervention.”
You’re an idiot and it fits their scenarios perfectly
KennKennyKenKen@reddit
Deus ex machina is a plot device used for the plot.
Not scene specific situations. If the writers never wrote Tommy choking Abby it has 0 impact on the plot, it's not an impossible issue that needs resolution.
Same with Ellie being stabbed by a branch.
Theyre situations added for tension and drama but they're not unsolvable plot points.
Like how much more simply can I explain this shit to you brainlets man
Stlr_Mn@reddit
You: “I’m going to continue to show I’m fucking stupid”
Moore2257@reddit
Hey, leave his humiliation kink alone, poor guy is just trying to goon.
Bunstrous@reddit
For a human character who is by and large just a human, getting impaled with a large object would have drastic influence on your next actions, if you survive to have next actions. Ellie being stabbed isn't an unsolvable plot point on its own, but it is a plot point that is solved by essentially ignoring that it happened and immediately returning to gameplay and story that is largely unaffected by her having an untreated life threatening injury just before. IE it was solved in an impossible way.
KennKennyKenKen@reddit
Dude. It's a plot device to resolve unsolvable or hopeless situations in THE PLOT. Not an element of a scene.
You just give some whack ass AI definition and say I'm wrong when that definition is wrong.
https://www.litcharts.com/literary-devices-and-terms/deus-ex-machina
"deus ex machina is regarded as an easy—and therefore somewhat cheap—device for bringing about resolution in a plot."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina
"Its function is generally to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation"
Plot situations mate. Tommy choking Abby isn't a plot point. Elly being hurt by a branch isn't a plot point. If every time a character is saved by their friend is Deus ex machina then every action movie has like 100x Deus ex machina.
wildey@reddit
Druckman is that you?
BlackAxemRanger@reddit
I think the average person will like anything they are told to. I watched the last season of game of thrones with a dude who I genuinely think is a good guy but he was getting so hyped up he didn't see anything wrong with the writing decisions
KiwiCounselor@reddit
Ohhh the gameplay is fantastic. Story needed a redo pretty desperately though. Should have followed another pair of survivors having to trek across a country while subtly dealing with their emotional trauma and forming a bond. Could even take place in the 20 entire fucking years they slipped over in the timeline.
ohmyfuckinggodhamlet@reddit
It's poorly written but at the same time pretends it's well written.
PlentyOMangos@reddit
I haven’t played either of them bc the last PlayStation I owned was a PS2 lol, so reading this was a trip
I didn’t know if it was describing the actual game or some outrageous scenario made up by a fan
Gone__Hollow@reddit
It's really not. The first one was a great game. It had great graphics (they hold up on PS3 even now) and gameplay. Most importantly it had a very touching story that would actually test your moralaity in your subconscious. Be a hero or be a father.
On the other hand, the sequel? In it's bid to live up as a sequel, it realizes on emotional shock while cannibalizing on the characterization not only from previous game but also from its own game.
Suspicious-Whippet@reddit
It's the back and forth between the flashbacks and multiple POV's that messed the game up. It's a 24 hour game, no way I remember what happened in a cutscene 18 hours of gameplay ago, that connects to what I'm doing now. Other than that I thought it was great.
Ronin_777@reddit
She could have pointed anywhere on the map to throw her off but instead decides to attack her. There were so many other cards she could have played like telling her she’s pregnant to spare her but nope, straight to the knife. Nevermind that pregnant women have increased self preservation instinct.
The whole scene was contrived all so Ellie could have a “what have I le done??” moment.
jamesdp5@reddit
kills 100s a few seconds ago, after losing her fingers: maybe killing not okay?
ilovemaaskanje@reddit
Idk man anything sounds nonsensical if you put it that way. I never felt any mercy for killing all the people in Seattle because I wanted to revenge Joel. But after seeing that the people that assisted in killing Joel we're not that proud about it or straight up regretted it I didn't feel good about killing them.
Also jesus Christ people obviously it's a game and you shouldn't care about the hundreds of unnamed npcs you kill. Why is it that when it's last of us you bitch and moan about this but when in rdr2 you kill literally hundreds of people you still cry when Arthur dies? He was an asshole and a murderer and if it was real life he would be an international criminal hunted by any state or country he steps foot in. Not just the Pinkertons. Literal demon spawn killing town worth's of people on a good day.
It's unrealistic to expect games to be so realistic that you don't shoot your gun in a shooter because it would not be realistic to kill that many people.
The whole argument is basic green text one brain cell ass comment that doesn't make sense if you think about it for more than one millisecond.
JJJacobalt@reddit
Because it doesn't make logical or moral sense for her to be okay with going out of her way to mow down dozens to hundreds of people who aren’t even related to Joel’s death, but then when she gets to the one person who she's actually justified in taking revenge against, she suddenly decides "nah, not worth it". Ellie doesn't even get the backstory and perspective of Abby, which is what might cause the player to identify with Abby. Ellie literally just sorta randomly decides at the last possible second that killing for revenge is wrong, for no discernible reason.
Yes, a video game needs enemies, but the game's message and themes are inherently contradicted by the required gameplay loop.
It’s funny you bring up RDR2 because both RDR games are entirely about how being an outlaw is a bad thing. Both games portray Dutch as an insane person who does not value human life. RDR2 is about Arthur realizing that he regrets all the bad things he’s done, RDR1 is about John trying to move on from the bad things he's done.
The game is called "Red Dead Redemption", not "Red Dead Killing-People-for-Money-is-Morally-Justified".
ilovemaaskanje@reddit
Its not out of the blue when Ellie decides not to kill Abby. She has her life in hand drowning her. She remembers Joel at that moment. The scene where they talk on the porch is played and then she realises (and me too) that Abby doesn't deserve to die. Because just like she remembers him she doesn't want another kid to lose their adoptive parent and be in such pain as Ellie is. That's at least my interpretation. Of course it's a lot deeper than just this shallow interpretation in my comment but that's the gist of it.
The point is: if the game doesn't scream into your face every two seconds about how aRtHuR iS ScArEd or how aRtHuR "mr redemption" Morgan changes because he returns fish back into the river like tlou doesn't, the point of the story flies above people's head. And the anon from the green text only looks at Ellie and sees her killing people so he thinks she must be a psycho.
Yes the rdr games are about redemption but if the point about Ellie mowing down people bringing down the story applies to tlou then Arthur mowing down people has to bring down the story of rdr2. They are the same stories in concept. Two people who think they are doing the morally good thing but realising at the end when it's too late that they were the bad guys all along. And the gameplay is the same too. Nobody addresses this argument ever.
You summarise the story od rdr2 with some funny remarks but fail to adresa that core issue with the argument.
I agree that killing 100 during gameplay takes away from the story but enough to warrant a bad rating of the game. Tlou2 is not perfect but this is certainly not the problem. Ellie didn't decide out of the blue. Arthur mows down people just as much as Ellie does and does so without good reason he is not hated. Nobody addresses that point you all just keep repeating how there is an honor system in the game.
JJJacobalt@reddit
Arthur mowing down people is kinda central to the story because him killing people was almost never justifiable and he comes to regret it which is the start of his real character arc.
Ellie is not shown to regret killing any of those people, she only gets hesitant when she finally gets to Abby.
I literally did not mention the honor system.
BadRobot___@reddit
You cant really compare tlou to rdr2 cause rdr2 let's you choose to be a good guy or bad guy while tlou2 doesn't
ilovemaaskanje@reddit
You literally can't complete the missions in the game without killing people. You can't choose not to you'll fail the missions. You're wrong.
BadRobot___@reddit
That doesn't change anything about what I said. Rdr2 literally has a honor system that let's you be a good guy, you have plenty of opportunities to help and spare ppl
ilovemaaskanje@reddit
You also can complete tlou with stealth and some sections you can avoid killing people.
Though in both games there are missions that require you to go on a killing spree. I still don't see the difference except rdr2 shouts at you whenever you kill somebody whereas tlou doesn't. The mechanic is the same there just isn't a bar shining at the bottom of the screen.
Anyway the original green text hates the game because it's forcing you to kill people then tells you how immoral it was. I am arguing that a lot of games including rdr2 does. Rdr2 has forced killing spree missions just like tlou2. The opportunity to then donate money to the camp doesn't change the 100 people you just killed.
Rdr2 is just as unrealistic as tlou2 and it doesn't get flamed. Because rockstar fans are grown ups and people who hate on tlou2 with this kind of passion need counseling.
moragdong@reddit
Yeah because Joel killing hundreds of people because one dumb little kid is so epic lmao
ilovemaaskanje@reddit
Yes you just agreed with my point. When you play games you have to expect unrealistic things to happen. The story can be good while people die that's how games always were. Why nobody ever criticizes other games for it but with tlou its an issue? If you don't like this game for it you have to dislike basically every drama story driven shooter game out there.
Tlou2 story is not great but the reasons in this green text is really not it.
ConsciousStretch1028@reddit
TLOU 2 discourse in the big '26?
Ok_Charity_707@reddit (OP)
/v/ is well known for seething about video games instead of, you know, actually playing them.
daily ex33 seethe threads won't lie
Danijay2@reddit
Shit was poorly written? Who would have thought?
kieran81@reddit
Me when the person who's conflicted and in denial and knowingly getting revenge for the entirely justified death of her father has contradictory morals 😱 😱 😱
Her "come to Jesus" moment over killing the pregnant lady was because it reminded her of her girlfriend, who is also pregnant. Emotionally, she realized she was practically killing the woman she loved.
It's also why she begs Abby not to kill her "because she's pregnant" even though she literally contradicted her stated morals already.
Ellie is not a morally consistent character. She's a dumb person making shitty, irrational decisions in the throes of grief. It's also why she leaves behind the woman she fought so hard to protect to go on a revenge quest AGAIN. And she DOESN'T EVEN KILL ABBY.
She was never seeking justice. She was seeking catharsis.
ReturnRadio@reddit
I love this comment. Not because I agree but because someone took the time to attempt to analyze the most nonsensical and poorly written game I've ever played. Like trying to discern truth and wisdom out of a madman's ramblings
kieran81@reddit
My point is not that you have to like the story or that you have to like/agree with a character. The point is that she's inconsistent. Pointing this out doesn't mean it's bad character writing. Pointing out why that harms the story is a way to show bad character writing.
303x@reddit
Ellie sparing Abby because le revenge le bad: 😔
The 250000 people she killed on her way to Abby:
kieran81@reddit
Yeah. She's inconsistent. We agree.
Applitude@reddit
Me when ludo narrative dissonance
MyOtherCarIsEpona@reddit
"Oscar bait" as a genre of video game is defined by this series. It's off-putting.
Sec_Chief_Blanchard@reddit
Realising you've killed a pregnant person will probably make anyone freak out, plus she had just found out Dina is pregnant earlier that day or the night before.
PrrrromotionGiven1@reddit
TLOU was never good