What is the difference between a Serb and a Montenegrin?
Posted by CasualLavaring@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 141 comments
I was wondering what the difference between a Croat, Serb and Bosniak aside from religion, and I was told they were influenced by the different empires they were under. However for the life of me I can't figure out what the difference between a Serb and a Montenegrin is. Same religion, same language, were even part of the same country for much longer than the other post-Yugoslav states; Montenegro was the last to detach itself from Yugoslavia in 2006.
bipolar1_baby325@reddit
I was told by a Serbian guy that Montenegrins are a bit more conservative and they're not very much into exploring their sexuality
Fluid_Intention_875@reddit
Ahahahaha they are highlanders and have somewhat different mentality to Serbs in Serbia. Also havibg a lot of historical communication with northern Albanians made them somewhat simillar, also Montenegrins have Venetian influence and coastal + highlander culture, tribal norms etc...
PotentialLow5116@reddit
They are both serbs, montenegrins only live in montenegro (black mountains). This is the one and only explanation. As if someone in newyork in 500 years claim they are not american but newyorkers. Newyork is probably bigger then montenegro. No offence to anyone but this is the only truth.
User20242024@reddit
Main difference is that Montenegro is very traditional society with tribal mentality. Serbia is more cosmopolitan.
sceka2001@reddit
Montenegrins are way more Western-leaning and have a slighlty different dialect, which varies depending on the region and/or municipality.
Accomplished-Fall612@reddit
Nothing we are all Yugos
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
The cars?
KojaKuqit@reddit
Someone needs to make a venn diagram for the Balkans....
DaMFdownThaStreet@reddit
They're just some chill guys
Icy_Chain_1504@reddit
Lastt to detach itself from Yugoslavia, but a kingdom way before Serbia.
Second out of the four to become a kingdom, with Croatia in 925, Montenegro as Duklja in 1077, Serbia in 1217, Bosnia in 1377.
Very important detail of course is that Montenegro (As Duklja/Doclea) was a roman catholic kingdom with an Archnishopric in Bar, and the majority of its population was roman catholic before Orthodox influence spread later on.
srbminimil@reddit
Alarming_Grand4762@reddit
67 upvoteva, da ga ne diram
Garofalin@reddit
When a Montenegrin goes to Belgrade, he seeks a job. When a Serbian goes to Podgorica, he's looking for his father.
Huge_Finger_5490@reddit
is radovan karadzic considered a montenegrin or a serb?
Garofalin@reddit
Just a war criminal. The rest is irrelevant.
PasicT@reddit
Well for one they don't speak the same language, even though most people here will lie and claim otherwise. Montenegrin has some different letters and pronunciations as well as a distinct accent. Also, Montenegrins have their own Orthodox Church even if some stick to the Serbian Orthodox Church and there are some cultural/historical differences.
MakiENDzou@reddit
Lol, there are different accents even among people who speak Montenegrin, so how that proves that it is a distinct language?
It's not true that only "some" of Orthodox population sticks to Serbian Orthodox Church, an absolute majority does that. Montenegrin Orthodox Church is not recognised worldwide and they even have internal divisions, so even if you wanted to recognize them, you wouldn't know which lidership is legimate.
PasicT@reddit
The accents are ethnic accents, mainly from Albanians and some Bosniaks.
Being recognized worldwide is not a criteria in this case. Medugorje was not even recognized formally by the Catholic Church until 2024 yet hundreds of thousands still visited the pilgrimage site every year prior to that.
MakiENDzou@reddit
Montenegrin grammar recognizes 2 main accents, Northeastern (Sjeveroistočni) and Southeastern (Jugoistočni,) other are subgroups of that. The accents are not tied to ethnicity, and so language is also not. I'm not sure what difference in accent you hear between and Serb from Pljevlja and Bosniak from Pljevlja. It's regional, not ethnic.
Rules are different betweem Catholic and Orthodox Church. Montenegrin Orthodox Church is not in the same position as Medugorje. Saying how the difference between the Serbs and Montenegrins is in the Church is 1) false argument 2) Not valid in this case because Montenegrin Orthodox Church doesn't exist in practise outside of Cetinje. That's like saying the difference betweem Montenegrin and Serbian is that Serbian doesn't have grammatical cases because people from Plav mix them in the speech regularly. That's just a regional difference.
PasicT@reddit
I named the church as an example of differences, it's by far not the main difference or the most important one.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
There is no difference between a Serb and a Montenegrin. None at all.
PasicT@reddit
Yes there is and I don't care if your Serb nationalist feelings are hurt.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
I'm originally from Montenegro and no difference at all
PasicT@reddit
You're originally a Serb nationalist from Montenegro like there are unfortunately many. If there were no differences, you wouldn't need a passport to go to Podgorica or to the open sea.
lelebato@reddit
??? No one denies that Montenegrin state exists, we are talking about the people here. And you don’t need a passport to go into Montenegro
blitzfreak_69@reddit
Yeah well the people as well, we are not the same people at least not anymore.
PasicT@reddit
There is a border crossing from Serbia to Montenegro and vice versa.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Ethnicity ≠ nationality, mr. Bosniak ultranationalist
PasicT@reddit
Tell that to your fellow Serbs in Bosnia-Herzegovina who insist that they aren't Bosnians but just Serbs.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
You mean the same way Bosniaks in Serbia say they are Bosniaks and not Serbians?
I've never heard a Serb from Bosnia deny that he's Bosnian.
PasicT@reddit
More Bosniaks in Serbia will say they are Serbian (Srbijanci) than the opposite.
You've never heard a Serb from Bosnia deny that he's Bosnian because you're not paying attention.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
The term 'Bosnian Serb' is well more known then 'Serbian Bosniak'
PasicT@reddit
The term 'Bosnian Serb' is rejected by Bosnian Serbs themselves who insist that they are the biggest Serbs.
deviendrais@reddit
Lmao that's bs. We still use the term "Srbijanac" to rage bait Serbs from Serbia. We wouldn't do that if we seriously believed that we weren't Bosnians
PasicT@reddit
It's BS to you, it's not BS to Marko from Banja Luka or from Trebinje who feels insulted when someone refers to him as a Bosnian.
deviendrais@reddit
It depends on what context it's used in. If a Bosniak in a certain tone tells me I'm Bosnian they're more likely than not trying to imply that I'm not a Serb but just a brainwashed Orthodox Bosniak. I'm originally from Zvornik, the most četnik-infested part of Bosnia, yet my family still proudly proclaims that we're Bosnian Serbs
PasicT@reddit
Good for you if you're at least not ashamed of your Bosnian side. Bosnian Serbs sadly often get their panties in a twist when they come to Novi Sad or Belgrade and someone calls them "Bosanac/Bosanka". And I've had numerous Bosnian Serbs tell me: 'We're not Bosnian Serbs, we're just Serbs.' Dodik has said the same thing many times.
Stverghame@reddit
You are literally being disapproved by a person who identifies ad Montenegrin, yet you keep pushing your agendas diaspora boy. Illness demands therapy, idk why you avoid it.
ThatAnt8823@reddit
from a western point of view that sounds quite retarded ngl
can you guys understand each other perfectly when you speak your native language? yes? then it's the same language lmfao
PasicT@reddit
C'est plus complexe que ça. Les Français ne comprennent pas le français du Québec en général, par exemple.
ThatAnt8823@reddit
lmao yes we do
PasicT@reddit
Ben non, je parles les deux (français de France et français du Québec) et pourtant je croise régulièrement des français qui ne comprennent pas le français québécois.
deviendrais@reddit
Ils disent ça que pour se moquer des québécois et de leur accent mdr
ThatAnt8823@reddit
skill issues, c'est pas compliqué
phariom@reddit
Do Bosniaks who historically spoke ikavian speak a different language from Bosniaks who historically spoke ijekavian?
PasicT@reddit
Yes they do, at least to me they do. I hate when Sandzak "Bosniaks" claim to speak Bosnian. No they don't, Bosnian is never ikavian.
phariom@reddit
Ikavian speakers among Bosniaks are exclusively in Bosnia. Sandzak Bosniaks speak closer to Montenegrin.
But anyway, I don't disagree that Montenegrins are a separate people (if they want to be), they are different enough to justify "separation" from Serbs. But to be honest, the same could me applied to pretty much all Balkaners (and also Europeans). South Serbs might aswell be a separate ethnicity from Northern Serbs, just as a Bosnian or Slavonian Croat might as well be a different ethnicity from a Istrian. Or a Posavina Bosniak from a Krajina Bosniak, etc etc. If anything, there are too few ethnicities in my opinion, but I might be the only person on earth with that opinion.
PasicT@reddit
No they aren't exclusively in Bosnia, Bosniaks in Montenegro speak Ikavian as do Bosniaks in Croatia.
phariom@reddit
Croatia sure, but Sandzak? Never heard that they would speak Ikavian. They are part of the Zeta-Raška sphere which is primarily Ijekavian.
PasicT@reddit
In Serbian Sandzak, they will speak ekavica, in Montenegrin Sandzak they will speak ijekavica. In Bosnia and Croatia, they will speak ijekavica also.
sashaunl@reddit
what different letters?
PasicT@reddit
Ś and Ź.
sashaunl@reddit
Really didn’t know that. Just asked my Montenegrin friend (Uroš) he’d never heard about it. Did a little research online, Montenegrins introduced Ś and Ź into their alphabet in 2011, I’m assuming just to differentiate it from Serbian? Now I wanna hear someone say it, pronounce it. This is fun…
PasicT@reddit
It existed before that but a lot of things were "recreated" after being ignored for decades/centuries. Also Ś and Ź exist in other languages as well like Polish but definitely not in Serbian. Montenegrins also have a few ethnic names that are unique to them.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
They didn't 'recreated' they added them recently. Purely political stuff.
PasicT@reddit
Sure, just like they didn't vote to leave Serbia in 2006. Oh, wait a minute!
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Yeah and? They separated legally, that's totally fine. Montenegro existed as a political entity before so that's not surprising. But these two letters didn't exist anywhere in 'Montenegrin'
Ok_Organization_935@reddit
Zero rock bands is more unique.
Beautiful-Walk48@reddit
Youre so evil 🤣🤣
MakiENDzou@reddit
There are only two words in the whole language that use the word Ź, and one of them is incorrect by some grammars lol. Źenica and the name Źaga (extremely arhaic name)
requiem_mn@reddit
That's not true. Did you mean that start with ź, because koźe (mlijeko) uses ź.
MakiENDzou@reddit
I forget about that one. In my head were Źenica and Źaga.
Srna-95@reddit
What 😂😭
branimir2208@reddit
"Their own"? Lol, non-canonical and false church made as NGO(or a GONGO under DPS rule) in 90s, doesn't count as orthodox church.
Newly created letters since Montenegrins already had an alphabet before that, its called Serbian cyrilic alphabet. And that alphabet was adopted before Serbia.
You do know that dialects exist, right?
PasicT@reddit
I'm not going to debate this with you, your people have a tendency to deny everyone else's identity and right to their own identity.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
And your people have tendency to adopt and change identity every 50 years or so... muslim > Croatian Muslim > Muslim > Bosniak
vladedivac12@reddit
How many Montenegrins live in Belgrade? What language do they use?
PasicT@reddit
You'd have to ask them, people who live as a tiny minority somewhere tend to assimilate and become like the majority around them.
Ok_Organization_935@reddit
Lol they never assimilate
PasicT@reddit
If they start saying they speak Serbian and become Serb nationalists then they've assimilated.
sashaunl@reddit
and I don’t get this “most people will lie” and say we speak the same language. most of my friends are from Montenegro (Serbs and Montenegrins), we definitely speak the same language, wtf. call it whatever you want, but pronunciation and accent doesn’t make it a different language. It’s been like that with us for hundreds of years. this “new age” want to create something new, on your own, please do whatever pleases your heart. it’s just stupid to negate our common history….
PasicT@reddit
It's stupid to negate your common history just like it's stupid to negate Montenegro's distinct identity and history. I never claimed that Serbs and Montenegrins don't have things in common, of course they do.
sashaunl@reddit
I’ve never said anything about Montenegrin identity. Montenegrins were always there, will always be there. The thing that I don’t like, Serbs and Montenegrins being separated into two completely different groups. We used to be in the same church, used to speak the same language. Same people, different tribes for hundreds of years. 30% and more of Montenegro’s population still identify as Serbs.
PasicT@reddit
If they were separated, it's not without reason. And it turned out positively, Montenegro at least don't have Vucic as president unlike Serbia and they're close to joining the EU, again like Serbia.
toplicius@reddit
Look at it like this, all Bavarians are Germans but not all Germans are Bavarians. So all Montenegrins are Serbs but not all Serbs are Montenegrin.
blitzfreak_69@reddit
Absolutely blatant misinformation. Montenegrins are Montenegrins. Majority of them do not identify as Serbs.
EphemeralOcean@reddit
Serbs are from Serbia; Montenegrins are from Montenegro.
sashaunl@reddit
not necessarily, not even close. a lot of Serbs are from 🇲🇪, and the other way around. same with Bosnia, Croatia, or even Germany; if you get what I mean. Serb=ethnicity, Montenegro=country
blitzfreak_69@reddit
No it’s not. Montenegrin is an ethnicity as well. You can have and in fact you do have ethnic Montenegrins who identify as such, born and raised in Croatia, Serbia, Argentina etc.
sashaunl@reddit
who said Montenegrin is not an ethnicity?
EphemeralOcean@reddit
It's an absurd question. What's the difference between French and Germans???
CasualLavaring@reddit (OP)
Lots of Serbs live in Bosnia and Croatia 😂
EphemeralOcean@reddit
And they came from Serbia at some point. To be clear, I'm mostly joking, but I do think this is a weird question. Like what's the difference between French and Germans?
CasualLavaring@reddit (OP)
French and Germans speak different languages, for one thing
EphemeralOcean@reddit
A lot of Frenchman speak German and many Germans speak French.
TigerOfEU@reddit
> A lot of Frenchman speak German and many Germans speak French.
That's really not the case, unless "a lot" and "many" means 2-4% of the population.
vladedivac12@reddit
What about Bosnian Serbs?
Crimsont_ide@reddit
Sounds greedy. Can only be one or the other.
Active_Drawing_1821@reddit
blitzfreak_69@reddit
The difference is the same as the difference between a Croat and a Serb, or a Bosniak and a Serb, minus the religion.
It’s yet another South Slavic nation that speaks a common language, but with its own statehood history many centuries long, that led to a slightly different culture than the other three.
This is your answer in case you care to hear what actual Montenegrins have to say, since this sub is flooded with others answering in our name (quite easy to do since there’s probably no more than 500 Montenegrins on all of Reddit).
Incvbvs666@reddit
Yeah, what about the 'actual Montenegrins' that declare themselves as Serbs? Their opinions don't count?
redonredgrave@reddit
The narrative on this has really been under tight control for a while to the point it's cumbersome to push back, the various cultural influences from the surrounding area, things like tribal structure and early functions of the state are just kinda lost on people; ideas like nationality just straight up worked very differently especially for a bunch of clans that were effectively isolated outside fighting ottomans and contact with Venetians
It makes me almost wonder if orthodoxy was never brought into Doclea and stayed catholic would people would be asking the same question but with croats instead
Snoo-15899@reddit
If Serbia could be imagined as a poor and disfunctional Germany, Montenegro would be equaly poor and somewhat less disfunctional Switzerland.
riquelm@reddit
Austria, Bosnia is Switzerland
zwiegespalten_@reddit
They are mountain Serbs
blitzfreak_69@reddit
No we are not. Montenegrins are Montenegrins. You are from Turkey, what do you have to do with us to speak in our name?
zwiegespalten_@reddit
I can speak for anything so can you.
Ok-Wafer9808@reddit
Well when Ottomans occupied Serbia, they found harder to occupy part where today's Montenegro is due to complex terrain, so they made zone to cut communication between Montenegro and other parts of Serbia and Montenegro developed slightly different culture.
blitzfreak_69@reddit
The roots of that division happened centuries before the Ottomans. Duklja and later Zeta always had either independence or some form of autonomy
riquelm@reddit
I’d say Serbs and Montenegrins are not “completely different people” or anything like that. The difference is more historical and regional.
A lot of Montenegrins come from old south Dinaric mountain world, where clan and tribal structures survived much longer than in most Serbian regions. These areas were hard to control properly so Ottoman rule didn't exist or it existed just on paper. Because of that, local tribes, brotherhoods, warrior traditions, blood feuds and clan identity etc. formed and stayed important for a very long time.
Ethnically and culturally, it was also not some pure isolated group. There were Slavic people, older Balkan populations, Vlachs, Albanians etc. But over time most of that became Slavic- speaking and Orthodox, especially in what became Montenegro.
So I would say Montenegrins and Serbs are very close, but Montenegrins developed in a more mountainous, tribal, clan-based environment. That made them a bit different in mentality and historical experience. More emphasis on tribe, honor, local autonomy, warrior identity, and mountain independence.
I think this is where the question gets complicated, because “Serb” can be used in more than one sense.
In a narrow modern national sense, Serbs and Montenegrins are two related but different identities. But historically and even today, many Montenegrins also saw themselves as Serbs. So someone can absolutely argue that Montenegrins are a regional branch of Serbs, especially if they are using “Serb” in that broader cultural-historical sense.
So my answer would be: they are extremely close, and depending on how you define the word “Serb,” Montenegrins can be seen either as a distinct but related people, or as a branch of the wider Serbian people.
Incvbvs666@reddit
About 50 years of communist propaganda and 20 years of Milo Đukanović.
Prince_Hastur@reddit
Serbs live in Belgrade, Montenegrins also live in Belgrade but talk a bit different
Stverghame@reddit
I like how the "biggest supporters" of differences between people from Serbia and Montenegro are not from Serbia and Montenegro, but from CERTAIN countries in the neighbourhood. It is hilarious.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
It's just ye good olde PašićT
14PerunsThunder1389@reddit
That dude need to find job
shysamurai@reddit
From same certain countries that people here push the narrative of 'We're all the same, we're the siblings, family of sorts. Online we argue but in person we're besties'.
But the moment the question is 'difference between Serbs and x' then all of a sudden Serbs aren't even European lmao.
Stverghame@reddit
Generally, most of them have separate set of rules for Serbs and separate set of rules for everyone else.
When a Serb accomplishes something, ex-Yu: "Proud Balkaner, good job, you represent all of us!". And if. Serb points out he's a Serb, the mob goes in with "Stop gatekeeping you nationalist scum, we're all people and he's one of us!".
When a different ex-Yu person of non-Serb ethnicity accomplishes something, and a Serb points out that he's "proud" just like they did in the previous example, the mob comes in with "You Serbs appropriate everything, he's a Bosniak/Croat/Macedonian and he has nothing to do with you, get lost!!!"
Generally, we fall under different rules for a lot of things in their eyes, it is tiresome. Fuck them all either way.
RealShabanella@reddit
Fuck my father if I know :))))
Young_Owl99@reddit
Is that a saying in Balkans ?
We don’t have it.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
It's Montenegrin
TigerOfEU@reddit
We have a similar saying in romanian
Barbak86@reddit
One is Serb, the other is the offspring of Albanians and Serbs making love.
loqu84@reddit
Are we having this question once a week now?
tompa_zg@reddit
The Montenegrin has a coastline.
alpidzonka@reddit
I mean, if the "different empires" argument is relevant here, then the main difference would be that Montenegro was under the influence of Venice since the late 17th century and the local church structure remained autonomous from the Ecumenical Patriarchate after the abolition of the Patriarchate of Peć in 1766. That same church structure then ended up creating the institutions of a secular state during the 19th century, which remained independent from Serbia throughout the century and up to 1918. Its ideological backbone was pan-Serbian nationalism or irredentism, but it was at the end of the day its own state.
Though to be honest I don't think anyone should have to prove their Serbianness, Montenegrinness, Uzbekness or Kenyanness to you. The main difference between the two nations is self-identity and how it informs people's practical lives today.
ImamTrump@reddit
Different tribes
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
No such a thing
In terms of Slavic tribes, there were 2 big ones that moved to the Balkans between 6th and 7th century, Serbs and Croats
Montenegrins and Bosnians came to be out of many little political entities which started existing within the next few centuries and people started developing and identity around those dynasties. First the identity was more about the dynasty itself, later it started to focus more on the culture which developed in that particular region, and most recently, around 18th, 19th century, there started to be more focus on ethnicity
And then, after the 90s wars, everyone needs and must be a distinct group and a tribe since the very beginning, no matter that there is no proof of that anywhere
D_Quest@reddit
Even that is doubtful, more like one big tribe with a bunch sub tribes that eventually got divided by which religion they adopted (which was location based).
Basically the split is the same as East and West Roman Empire and then punch through the Otoman Conquest.
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
Doubtful or not, that's the official historical concensus
There were other smaller tribes, but I am focusing here on 2 historical ones which also stoll exist today. None of the others survived to this day, even in name. We know of them, but that's about it (or at least as far as I'm aware)
Nazgul_1994@reddit
I will get a lot of hate for this, but basically over the history its one people ruled by different dynasties. Anyone who thinks montenegrins have different ethnicity should just read Gorski Vijenac. Sad thing is that montenegrins in future won't be able to read it.
Substratas@reddit
Serbs are from Serbia, Montenegrins are from Montenegro.
Vivid-Cry5245@reddit
I’m sure other subreddits don’t have to deal with this question every week lol 😂 (what is the difference between a French and a Belgian from Wallonia, between a German and an Austrian…)
Traditional_Win_7199@reddit
It ia very simple. Serbs are Serbs, while Montenegrins are Montenegrins. So that is thw difference.
Sad_Suspect_9649@reddit
The religion is not quite the same. Montenegrins are mostly atheists, communists. They really don't like Orthodoxy, while Serbs are mostly Orthodox. If a person here in Montenegro attends the Church, there is a strong chance they're Serb.
rintzscar@reddit
Atheists are not necessarily communist. They could be, but not because they're atheist.
Sad_Suspect_9649@reddit
Ofc, by communist I wanted to be more precise. As they mostly come together here.
phariom@reddit
The difference is almost exactly like Romanians vs Moldovans. If you're not familiar with that division then it's almost like Germans vs Austrians.
CasualLavaring@reddit (OP)
Nah, I get it.
perofobija@reddit
Can't escape this topic wherever I go
Crimsont_ide@reddit
Yes you can. Delete Reddit.
perofobija@reddit
_mayuk@reddit
Form my dna I think not much xd they monte negring seems to show up first I think .. just that xd
_mayuk@reddit
at some point after bronce age seem many balkans pops started as a mix of celtic + that minoan influx ...
they leter would end up in serbia/hungary etc xd
CompleteAnimal4606@reddit
There is none
Furda_Karda@reddit
They are all the same bunch.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
Here we go again
Furda_Karda@reddit
Best comment 😁
Mako2401@reddit
SymbolicRemnant@reddit
Ever so slightly different history.
Live-Method-219@reddit
Basically a political decision if Montenegrin is regionality or ethnicallity. You can have two brothers, one will say he is Montenegrin (and not Serb), while other one will say he is Serb and Montenegrin
Beautiful-Walk48@reddit