Rome’s Pride parade bars Jewish LGBTQ float over refusal to call Gaza war ‘genocide’
Posted by seeebiscuit@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 460 comments
Diego12028@reddit
Sad to see this this, but overall pretty valid and good. Until now Italian workers have been at the forefeont in putting pressure towards (trying) to end the genocide at the global scale, and it's better to not associate with groups that try to normalize the atrocities of Israel.
Master_Flash@reddit
The most recent video from Tucker Carlson made me dive into what happened in Rwanda.
Basically it was state sponsored genocide.
What happened at the time is that the UN refused to intervene and USA actively lobbied to forbid the use of the word genocide.
Bottom line is that when genocide happens, the world chooses political convenience and "stability" instead of action to stop the mass killing.
STFUnicorn_@reddit
Rwanda was an actual genocide.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
It being a genocide is so widely acknowledged among experts that anyone who tries to deny it should be suspect of political motives.
STFUnicorn_@reddit
Right. There was absolutely a terrible genocide against the Rwandan Tutsis.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
And so is Gaza.
STFUnicorn_@reddit
lol no…
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
Right - so we should suspect you of having a political motive.
STFUnicorn_@reddit
No. I’m Just capable of logic.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
Yes, more so than the world's collective of the most well read, knowledgable, accredited, and diverse community of genocide experts obviously.
You are simply that smart
STFUnicorn_@reddit
Yes.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
And humble too
Master_Flash@reddit
A committee of independent specialists commissioned by the UN declared in their investigation that Israel is indeed committing genocide.
Their claim was based on two main aspects: Declarations of high ranking political and military leadership showing the intention of extermination of the people of Gaza and their inhumane treatment. And the indiscriminate target of civilian infrastructure, aiming at creating conditions where it's impossible for human life to exist.
You are literally supporting the Nazis of our generation dude.
meister2983@reddit
Well yeah.. because most people don't want to go to some foreign country and die.
Ghost-George@reddit
Yeah, the problem is it’s basically always is gonna involve direct action. You can’t really politically sanction your way out of a genocide. So they would’ve had to put US troops on the streets with orders to shoot anyone running around with a machete which basically would’ve basically involved invading the country. Probably would’ve had to impose a no fly zone and done airstrikes as well. Basically it would have required putting a hell of a lot of assets in country and there would’ve been no guarantee that they wouldn’t have started up again as soon as they left.
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
That makes no sense.
Israel has operated with impunity partly because of the US sponsored iron dome.
Stop funding "defensive" weapons, they'll have to either stop fucking around or start finding out.
meister2983@reddit
You think Israel can't win wars hard without the iron dome?
Without that defense, logically they'll mount a more aggressive offense
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
They’d probably be a lot less likely to start them if they actually suffered the consequences from it.
meister2983@reddit
Like what consequences exactly? Israel will be attacked regardless.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
And it would be their own fault
SowingSalt@reddit
Here comes the victim blaming. Did you see what she was wearing?
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
Israel is not now and will never be the victim. They have been the aggressor since the day they were created. I hope the Iron Dome fails someday so they'll actually have to face some consequences for their actions.
SowingSalt@reddit
So you were celebrating the Oct 7 attacks on Oct 8? That's quite the admission.
If the Iron Dome fails, they'll do a repeat of '67.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
I have zero sympathy for Israel when they're attacked by the people who's land they stole and have been terrorizing for decades, if that's what you're asking. Would you feel sorry for a domestic abuser when their victim fights back?
SowingSalt@reddit
I have zero sympathy for Arabs when they're attacked by the people who's land they colonized and have been terrorizing for decades, if that's what you're asking. Would you feel sorry for a domestic abuser when their victim fights back?
I fixed that for you. Irgun and Lehi were a reaction to the 1929 riots, which include the Hebron Massacre.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
Zionists really are pathetic. They always pretend they're the victim even when they're carrying out this generation's Holocaust.
SowingSalt@reddit
You're pathetic. You seriously are conditioned to assume that Israel is always doing the worst.
Meanwhile you ignore actual genocides
SowingSalt@reddit
The 67 war says otherwise.
Ghost-George@reddit
I was talking about Rwanda not Israel.
Master_Flash@reddit
Dude you are completely clueless about the reality of the massacre and how the international community was completely backing the genociders.
A single man called Romeo Dellaire, a UN peacekeeper, refused the orders given to him to leave the country. But simply standing between the genociders and the Tutsis that man saved thousands of innocent lives.
He had almost no ammunition, no fuel, sometimes no water and yet he refused to leave because there were people looking in his eyes that knew if he left they would all be dead.
Go read his book, Shaking Hands With The Devil, because you have no idea of what really happened there, you're simply guessing.
Ghost-George@reddit
Yeah, he saved thousands of lives in a genocide that claimed what 1 million? Man’s a hero, no doubt, but that wouldn’t work large scale. It’s like schindler's list what the man did was heroic, but you could not schindler's list your way out of the holocaust what ended the holocaust was Allied troops taking the concentration camps. The only way genocides end is when they run their course or if somebody stops them with force.
Master_Flash@reddit
You're telling me what he did with 500 hundred guys wouldn't work with 5000? I'm not saying the genocide would be stoped I'm saying many more would be saved. This is basic logic.
Ghost-George@reddit
I don’t think it would’ve worked at the end of the day, at least not on the scale required. Having unarmed men trying to stop at genocide with only paper only works, if the killers believe the paper means something. And as soon as they realize that the peacekeepers really aren’t able to stop them, then the whole thing falls apart. The people that Romeo Dellaire men stoped didn’t go home they went somewhere else and killed people there.
At the end of the day, the only thing that would’ve truly stopped it at widescale would’ve been to put men on the street with weapons with the authority to use them. Also that is exactly what Romeo Dellaire advocated for because one of the first things he requested was 5000 men and the authority for them to carry out operations to start seizing arms cashes. What he did, he did out of desperation because he had no other way to address the issue but ultimately it was not a way to end the problem.
Pingushagger@reddit
Drones. A country like America could’ve ended the Rwandan genocide without a single soldier stepping foot on Africa.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
You can’t intervene to stop a conflict from the air, and 90s drone tech has absolutely nothing on what’s been going on today.
Somebody would have needed to put troops into Rwanda to stop it
Master_Flash@reddit
Your country doesn't have to send billions every year to the people doing the genocide but your country does anyways
Your country doesn't have to vote against every resolution from UN trying to address the genocide but your country does it anyways.
Israelis have free healthcare and americans don't. Funny.
meister2983@reddit
You know.. it might be worse if we didn't. Israel could just do.. well nothing... to genocide Gaza.
To be pedantic, there is no UN resolution about a genocide in Gaza.
That said, my country is the primary sponsor of the actual peace deal in place.
If by free, you mean face a very high tax burden, uh sure
mrgoobster@reddit
When an entire nation pays for health care as a single customer, they pay less per item/visit/operation. It is objectively true that nationalized health care is cheaper - and that is even without considering that it preempts the predatory medical insurance industry.
meister2983@reddit
I'm not arguing whether it's cheaper.. I'm arguing whether it is free.
This is such a bizarre narrow argument. Standard of living is massively higher in America as any Israeli American could tell you
mrgoobster@reddit
TANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Ironically enough, 'standard of living' is not defined narrowly enough to be a useful point of comparison. Every study defines it for themselves, and one must always specify who is doing the calculation and what their metrics are.
Usually health care security is undervalued, or folded into life expectancy or health care expenditure in a way that masks its impact.
meister2983@reddit
There's more migration to America from Israel than vice versa. All I need to know to understand who has higher standards of living
mrgoobster@reddit
There are other considerations.
meister2983@reddit
Like what? I look where people move their feet.
Remember 3% of America can literally immigrate to Israel just by virtue of being Jewish. And still America is far more attractive
mrgoobster@reddit
There are two separate vectors: why Jews aren't leaving the US and why they ARE leaving Israel.
As for why they aren't leaving the US: there's no reason to, and people don't uproot themselves without cause. Not to mention, most American Jews don't speak Hebrew.
Why are they leaving Israel? It's at war. The shadow of Oct. 7 undermines the idea that Israel is a safe refuge. There is the obvious political reason that Israel is dominated by a right wing coalition that's perpetrating a brutal campaign against civilians. The fact that religious law and government are mixed in Israel, and to someone raised in America that can be repulsive.
Unless you consider politics to be part of standard of living, which would be...a unique take.
meister2983@reddit
Politics is an extremely strong part of standard of living, especially when it affects your material outcome. Life expectancy is a part of HDI for instance
That's part of the not go to Israel part, yes, but most Israelis I know in America are quite pro Israel. They just want a better life.
mrgoobster@reddit
It depends on whether we're using some academically defensible definition of 'standard of living', which would tend to measure economic considerations, or just saying it's absolutely everything that could potentially affect quality of life.
If it's everything that could affect quality of life, then obviously people are leaving Israel. It's astonishing that it's not happening more rapidly.
protonpack@reddit
Hey look, you might be a smart person but this is a clear example of when trying to defend the indefensible forces you to make absolutely brain-dead arguments. There is no logic here, possibly only some sort of ego-driven need to reply.
meister2983@reddit
I'm describing the situation. Got an actual rebuttal to this frankly obvious description of the relative positions of the parties?
protonpack@reddit
Saying "it might get worse" = describing the situation
Master_Flash@reddit
Not sure what you meant here. This is probably some sarcastic comment that fell flat.
Regardless of the specifics, during the the Biden administration, USA used it's veto power multiple times to shield Israel from unanimous resolutions from UN regarding Gaza. Do not pretend to be dumb.
And fuck you, btw.
meister2983@reddit
It's easy and cheap to genocide a population when you have a total siege. US doesn't need to "fund anything" .
Oh you mean ceasefire, not genocide which none said.
Sure. To be fair, it obviously doesn't matter. UNSC 2803 says Hamas needs to disarm. We're at 6 months now overdue
Master_Flash@reddit
Hey dude, just a heads-up. You're sounding like a dumbass, just so you know.
Completely idiotic. lol
meister2983@reddit
Oh it makes a difference. It reduces deaths on both sides. 1000 Israeli deaths.. maybe 50k to 500k Palestinian ones.
I don't think you understand how the UN works. Lol
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
How does US missile money reduce Palestinian deaths?
The US supported and shielded Israel during the intentionally caused famine. Surely it's equally liable for all famine deaths caused.
meister2983@reddit
What do you mean shielded? What is someone exactly going to do if Israel cuts off aid?
See above. Could be a lot more famine
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
Declare a red line and impose sanctions. And not just on that fat oaf but on increasingly larger segments of the Israeli population.
Kick Israeli banks off swift. Put Israeli countries on sanctions lists.
meister2983@reddit
Hey we tried that with Russia. They are still in Ukraine.
Is Gaza going to get fed or something because Israel can't use Swift?
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
Israel doesn't have an autarchic economy like Russia. It's entirely dependent on foreign trade. They'd collapse in a month and would rethink their position in a day.
4latar@reddit
actual comedy gold
Bodhi_Stoa@reddit
Please send help.
SteveoberlordEU@reddit
Help yourselves 2 amendment or something was made for this.
4latar@reddit
i would if i could...
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
Peace deal???
"Geneva, April 10 2026 – Six months since the announcement of a ceasefire in Gaza, Palestinians across the strip are still unsafe, as Israeli attacks continue routinely, said UN Human Rights Chief Volker Türk.
“The unrelenting pattern of killings reflects continuing disregard for Palestinian lives, enabled by sweeping impunity,” the High Commissioner said.
At least 32 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces since early April, as airstrikes, gunfire, and shelling persist daily across Gaza, bringing to 738 the number of Palestinians killed since a ceasefire came into effect on 10 October 2025, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health"
United Nations OHCHR Article 10 April 2026
"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that he directed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to increase control of Gaza to 70%.
Speaking at a conference on Thursday, he said, "We are currently squeezing Hamas; we now control 60 percent of the territory of the Strip – you know this. We were at 50, we moved to 60. My directive is to move to," he said before pausing as someone in the crowd said, "100".
"Let's go step by step. First of all, 70. Let's start with that. We're pressing them from all sides, we'll deal with the remnants."
The expansion in control by Israel contradicts the terms of the Donald Trump-led ceasefire agreement, which Israel and Hamas agreed to in October 2025."
BBC Article 29 May 2026
meister2983@reddit
No one said total peace. But at prior war rates, 20x as many Gazans would have been killed in the last 6 months
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
I see you and Israel clearly have the same understanding of "ceasefire"
meister2983@reddit
Yes. It is an unusual situation. Normally when wars are this is sided the weaker side surrenders. But alas, Hamas and co are too insane too surrender, which normally means they (and huge numbers of civilians they are embedded with) all die.
US decided 200k more Gazan deaths would be a bad outcome do managed to figure out a middle ground violence minimization.
4latar@reddit
"hamas really should surrender to the people that have been systematically taking away their land and driving away their people while ignoring every ceasefire and shooting civilians"
do you realise how insane you sound?
meister2983@reddit
The board of Peace hasn't been doing this to them
sixtus_clegane119@reddit
Lmao
re_carn@reddit
In the case of Israel, it would be enough for the U.S. and Europe to stop supporting it and impose economic sanctions. Israel continues its genocide and starts new wars solely because other countries support it.
meister2983@reddit
No it wouldn't. You think the Serbs stopped fighting because of economic sanctions?
No because it feels threatened. Sanctions make it feel only more so
re_carn@reddit
I think it would be much harder for Israel to carry out genocide if the United States and Europe didn’t supply it with weapons and cut off its funding.
No, they are committing genocide because they feel they can act with impunity. That is why they can afford to laugh and actively promote and demonstrate their goals. They can calmly declare that “we are now going to seize new territories,” they can calmly carry out terrorist attacks in neighboring countries, they can shoot rescue workers and journalists, and simply make everyone forget about it.
Such actions would have turned any other country into a North Korea in terms of sanctions, but everyone simply turns a blind eye to Israel.
meister2983@reddit
Why? I noted elsewhere that Israel does not need bombs or anything like that to genocide Gaza. Just has to hold the siege.
Sri Lanka did not become North Korea
Winjin@reddit
Sri Lanka wasn't committing genocide, they were fighting a civil war against an islamist faction
re_carn@reddit
Nevertheless, Europe supplies them with weapons, and the U.S. supplies them with bombs. And please, don’t go on saying that if they weren’t supplied with these things, it wouldn’t make any difference.
Israel, which is heavily dependent on foreign trade, would have that opportunity.
meister2983@reddit
Yes there would be much more death if not for precision weapons. That's my point.
You don't count Sri Lanka as heavily dependent on trade?
re_carn@reddit
“If they had fewer weapons, they would kill more people.” That's an interesting point of view.
Are you saying that sanctions wouldn’t have hit Israel hard? I don’t see any products from Sri Lanka in my city, but there are tons of Israeli ones.
meister2983@reddit
Makes a lot of sense when you realize they don't need to use any weapons to kill a lot more people than they have
Not enough that they'd decide it would be better to face terrorist attacks
You sure? Lots of garnets from there.
re_carn@reddit
This makes no sense, given that without the bombs supplied by the United States, attempts to achieve the same result through a ground operation would have led to a completely different outcome.
“Terrorists against terrorists” is, of course, a funny joke. But given how dependent Israel is on foreign imports and foreign trade, sanctions would quickly force it to the negotiating table.
Yes, I'm sure. There is a vast array of goods and services from Israel, so sanctions would cause significant damage.
meister2983@reddit
What ground operation? They can just do nothing and patiently wait
I didn't say otherwise. Just that, well, they didn't work with Serbia. They also aren't working with Russia.
re_carn@reddit
If they could have just sat back and waited, they wouldn't have carried out that genocide.
Lol.
Sorry, but I'm sick of all this demagoguery - “Sanctions wouldn't have hurt,” “They would have killed people even without weapons,” and so on.
meister2983@reddit
See this is the problem with calling everything a genocide. You fail to compare to what an actual genocide looks like
Levitz@reddit
In the end it's politics. You want to see how the world reacts when a power gets itself involved in countries which are by all means abusing their population? Look at the reactions to Venezuela or Iran.
Master_Flash@reddit
No it's not just politics. It's evil men driven by ideologies of hate.
Also what happened in Rwanda and what Israel is doing in Gaza is not comparable to those authoritarian reigimes you mentioned.
The massacres of Rwanda and Gaza are state sponsored, systematic extermination, in Gaza they not only bomb civilians directly but they also destroy every piece of infrastructure.
Dude, how can bombing schools, hospitals, churches and every vital piece of infrastructure be "just politics". It's not.
Also nice job freeing the people of Iran. Opening it out by triple tapping a school for girls that was operating there for almost 10 years. 150 people were killed, over 120 were small girls of ages between 8~12.
This is the work of demonic people.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
So and what about people who normalize the atrocities of Hamas? Do we have a purity test before letting Arabs participate? You all are so bigoted, do Russians have to say they hate Putin?
redridingoops@reddit
You mean, Netanyahu ?
The dude who helped their rise to power and even gave money ? He should rot in jail along with all his supporters.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
lol lol continue to victim blame, Bibi didn’t lead or create Hamas or tell them to slaughter 1200 people
redridingoops@reddit
Israel's interference in Palestinian elections and leadership in order to keep stealing land by claiming their interlocutors were unreasonable is well documented.
You can also fuck all the way off with the Oct 7 narrative :
Nothing started on Oct 7, Israel is the biggest terrorist state in the entire region and the IDF makes Hamas look tame.
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
Breaking: movement defined by its resistance to oppression of minorities unhappy to be associated with group that refuses to acknowledge repression of a minority.
erythro@reddit
Working very hard to connect these two utterly unrelated causes lol.
they didn't even refuse to acknowledge the repression of Gaza, they refused to sign up to a particular statement because they used the word genocide - a word Jews obviously have reservations about regardless of context.
smegabass@reddit
Having reservations about facts is peak entitlement.
Its a Genocide. Israelis own it. Denying that its Genocide is as offensive as denying the Holocaust.
SowingSalt@reddit
Not even the ICC prosecutor charging Bibi with war crimes thinks it's genocide.
smegabass@reddit
check this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalNews/comments/1tf9xzy/comment/om8248v/
Countless experts, including Israeli have called it a genocide.
That's not what the ICC prosecutor thinks. He is collecting evidence. Israel and friends are bringing huge amount of pressure on him not to do it.
Fk Israel. Genocidal mofos.
SowingSalt@reddit
I too can feed random bullshit into an LLM to make up comments. How about linking to the alleged report the comment reports to summarize?
The prosecutor brought charges in Darfur.
smegabass@reddit
Its wild that you think Darfur had the support that Israel does. Desperate really.
SowingSalt@reddit
People make up genocide to attack Israel, and ignore actual genocides.
erythro@reddit
it's about what word ought to mean, it's hard to think of something more subjective
smegabass@reddit
I suppose we could ask the hundred of thousand killed and displaced.
Its not subjective. You are shading for the Zionist fascist goons.
Fk Israel.
whiskydyc@reddit
If they had used the word holocaust I might understand, but genocide is not exclusive to the Jewish experience.
erythro@reddit
I think your distinction is reasonable, but so is Jewish resistance to broadening of the term.
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
If they were trying to call it a Holocaust, you would have a point. But "genocide" is the generic term for exactly what Israel is doing and what the stated goal of the Israeli government is.
Groups like the one that got banned aren't even trying to protect the term, they are just trying to deny Israel is committing genocide. It is.
I can see why they feel awkward about that, but they should feel awkward about it!
SpinningHead@reddit
Wtf. Many non Jews were murdered in the holocaust
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
Absolutely. But what's your point?
The Jews in this story, and in Israel generally, and many of these comments, are trying to say that what's going on in Gaza right now can't be a genocide because the Holocaust was the One True Genocide and nobody else can have one.
What I'm saying is that the Holocaust was A genocide. Many other genocides exist, including the one Israel is currently carrying out.
So. What was your point again?
SpinningHead@reddit
I agree. I think I misunderstood your point.
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
That's fair, there's a lot of deliberate confusion being sown around the Holocaust right now, by various parties.
erythro@reddit
I understand the intent, I just also understand people reasonably disagree
How do you distinguish the former from the latter?
Why should Italian Jews feel awkward?
neverfoundagirl@reddit
There is no "reasonably disagreeing" to this any more than there is to climate change or the moon landing.
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
I don't care where they are. Trying to say that what's going on us not a genocide is attempting to minimise it. From a people who constantly (and validly) call out how terrible the Holocaust was, it's a massive double standard.
Illustrious_Grade608@reddit
Well, so is banning genocide supporters from the event
erythro@reddit
I think banning people who hold reasonable views from an unrelated event is unreasonable
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
The event is specifically an anti-fascist event, I don't think it's unreasonable to not allow fascists to take part, even if their fascist views are 'reasonable'
redridingoops@reddit
But, but, but...What about the good fascists ? D:
neverfoundagirl@reddit
That you see it as unrelated it's the whole fucking problem
darkvaris@reddit
You have no claim over the term genocide dude. Learn something fuck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
erythro@reddit
People are allowed to object to the way a word is used, and use it differently.
darkvaris@reddit
You are certainly “allowed” to throw out the definition of a word and change it to suit your ideology. Doing that doesn’t suddenly make it worthy of respect
erythro@reddit
the ideology I'm defending here is the view that the Holocaust a specially awful crime that is in danger of being minimised by comparison to lesser crimes
maaaaawp@reddit
And nobody is saying that israel is doing holocaust.
Either learn to read or shut the fuck up
regalrecaller@reddit
we were talking about the word genocide, not the word Holocaust, because Holocaust was not used.
Occamsfacecloth@reddit
It is being minimized. By Israel.
erythro@reddit
we are talking about Italian gay Jews here
JoelMahon@reddit
and a pride parade is allowed to object to pride being used for this float so 🤷♂️
erythro@reddit
I'm not calling for the pride organisers to be arrested lol I just think they are being unreasonable
SoldierOf4Chan@reddit
Neither is Holocaust. The Nazi death camps weren't even the first Holocaust in history.
Maelger@reddit
Even the Nazi Holocaust is far from a Jewish exclusive. What with the Roma, the Slavs, the mentally ill.. Oh, the LGTB community was also sent there. Fun fact: they weren't liberated from the camps, merely got new management.
actsqueeze@reddit
As a Jew, I’m of the opinion that being Jewish doesn’t excuse one from denying a genocide.
erythro@reddit
ok, I'm also Jewish, and I think it's reasonable for Jews to not want lesser crimes compared to the Holocaust, which the broadening of the term genocide does. Do you also think a reasonable person could hold that position?
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
By that logic anything other than the Holocaust, what Imperial Japan did to China, and the Rwandan genocide doesn’t count as a “real” genocide.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
The population didn’t increase in those actual genocides. What’s going on in Ukraine is more of a genocide than what happened in Gaza
Pklnt@reddit
So if there was a huge Jewish community in elsewhere than in Europe that counter-acted the millions of Jews murdered by the Nazis, you wouldn't say that what the Nazis did was Genocide?
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Over 10 million people were killed in the Holocaust. Your comment makes no sense. Gaza not comparable. Keep trying!
Pklnt@reddit
But according to you, if the population of the Jews increased during that period, this would not have been a genocide.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
90% (!) of Polish Jews were murdered. How the fuck does a population increase in a small area? Just because there are other Jews doesn’t negate genocide. Gaza is a very small area, and that’s the population in question. The Holocaust equivalent would be to 1.8 million dead out of 2 million.
Pklnt@reddit
You've tried to argue that demographics can negate a genocide, which is simply false, because a population grows doesn't mean there is no genocide.
A genocide refers to the intent to destroy in whole or in part a group.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
So then all mass terrorist attacks are also genocides? Blah blah keep trying
Little-Stage1948@reddit
So the Palestinian government & Iranian government want to genocide the jews then? Oct 7th would be a genocide because the people that crossed to israel had.......
intent to destroy in whole or in part a group
Pklnt@reddit
If you want to make that argument, go ahead, but you'll have to acknowledge that Israel's actions in the West Bank before October 7, and Israel's actions after October 7 in Gaza are absolutely genocidal as well.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
I'm open to hearing how it is on a government level? I think one could argue ethnic cleansing in trying to get them to move, but that's only an element of a genocide and not the be all end all.
Hell the problem with the typical pro-pali is the inability to see both sides have continuously fucked with each other.
But only one side has ever actually offered concessions numerous times.
The other refuses to even accept that.
Pklnt@reddit
Restricting food and water to dangerous levels that pushed hundreds of thousands of people in a state of famine would be a start.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
While that certainly is a cunt move that not only just morally seems wrong, though i do understand the idea of trying to force people to turn on hamas, it still was a dumb idea. Not to mention perception you just look like shit. But there didn't end up being a famine, hell remember the NYT had to use a propagandized photo. They never hit the metrics for mortality to call it a famine, but used projected numbers rather than verified. Which is also how groups like Lancelot come up with absurd numbers as well.
Let me ask you, is Israel the strongest military in the middle east?
past12am@reddit
the current population of Palestine is 5.6 million people. if every single one of them were eradicated, according to you it would still not be called a genocide because... there were less deaths than in the Holocaust?
neverfoundagirl@reddit
What's the population of Gaza today?
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Shame on you, dictionaries are free. That’s all you parrots can say, “genocide denier”. The current situation in Gaza is dire, that is true.
NeonArlecchino@reddit
If it makes you feel better, I view you as a "Holocaust Denier".
neverfoundagirl@reddit
🤡
Ok-Goose6242@reddit
Doesn't that logic mean you can only choose one of them to be a genocide as the rest will all be lessening the impact of genocide?
semaj009@reddit
No genocides have happened since the Europeans brought smallpox blankets to the Americas, I guess. It's all hunky dory since apparently
erythro@reddit
No, its just raising the threshold
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
Yeah you’re right, guess the Holocaust wasn’t actually a real genocide, the Khmer Rhouge had the Nazis beat.
erythro@reddit
This would make the definition of genocide more exclusive, yes. I'm asking: is that a reasonable thing to want?
MightyArd@reddit
You keep asking everyone if it's reasonable to not want to label other genocides as a genocide and everybody keeps saying you're being unreasonable.
Over and over again. The same question, the same answer.
So either everybody is wrong, or you're just a little bit evil.
Alissinarr@reddit
It's one of 3 things
a shill
a bot
a pro astroturfer
erythro@reddit
everyone who disagrees with you is paid by evil people, no one actually sincerely disagrees with you, you are sensible, smart, and right and everyone secretly knows that. Keep reminding yourself of that every time you see someone disagreeing with you, it's a healthy and normal thing to do.
Alissinarr@reddit
Always wondered what it was like to talk to a LLM bot, or Mossad.
Gotta say the LLM logic thing isn't a trope.
Meet the latest and greatest astroturfing bot everyone!
erythro@reddit
this isn't delusional, protecting your psyche in this way is healthy and normal. Don't let anyone say otherwise. don't let them
neverfoundagirl@reddit
They tell me everything I want eggs though
erythro@reddit
Some people are, others are deflecting a bit.
this subreddit is generally wrong in my opinion. It's a bit weird to appeal to one comment thread in one subreddit and refer to that as some kind of authority
neverfoundagirl@reddit
No. You're wrong and evil.
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
No it absolutely isn’t lmao, the holocaust is like THE genocide, but that doesn’t mean other ones aren’t *also* genocides. That’s like saying wars other than World War 1 & 2 aren’t real wars because they didn’t kill enough people in comparison. The point isn’t the scale, it’s the intent. Here’s the UN Definition:
In [The UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide], genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
You can’t pick and choose what is and isn’t a genocide based on vibes or scale, it’s about the intent more than anything.
erythro@reddit
It's more like saying wars other ww1 and 2 aren't "world" wars - war was an existing word, "world war" was a new concept after ww2.
Likewise we invented/propagated a new word to describe the horrors of the Holocaust ("THE genocide" as you say), but in doing so we've broadened it to include less horrific crimes.
You accept this is very broad, yes? Racism could be genocide by this definition.
Well I think that's a reasonable perspective on how we should define genocide. But so is the view that a genocide should at least be comparable the Holocaust in scale. I don't understand why any disagreement about the definition of genocide is treated as such a threat, particularly considering we are talking about Jews who understandably are particularly careful to guard and remember the Holocaust.
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
We haven’t broadened its use, the guy who literally invented the word intended it to be used like this. Once more, straight from the UN:
> The word “genocide” was first coined by Polish lawyer Raphäel Lemkin in 1944 in his book Axis Rule in Occupied Europe. It consists of the Greek prefix genos, meaning race or tribe, and the Latin suffix cide, meaning killing. Lemkin developed the term partly in response to the Nazi policies of systematic murder of Jewish people during the Holocaust, but also in response to previous instances in history of targeted actions aimed at the destruction of particular groups of people. Later on, Raphäel Lemkin led the campaign to have genocide recognised and codified as an international crime.
Genocide isn’t just being bigoted against a group, nor is it just killing them. It is *specifically* about committing acts with the intent to DESTROY that group.
erythro@reddit
like you said, the Holocaust is THE genocide, I agree entirely and think that's a good way of putting it
He was successful because people recognised the Holocaust was some special kind of crime that needed to be recognised and treated differently. What exactly this guy found to be special about the Holocaust is what made it into the UN definition, but his definition might include things reasonable people disagree about.
right but racism can definitely be that
QtPlatypus@reddit
Yes there can be racist genocides. The stolen generations of Australia and the extermination of the Tasmanian aborigines are clearly acts of genocidal racism.
However there can also be non genocial racism. For example US slavery wasn't an attempt to kill all black people. Rather it was treating them as lessors in order to extract wealth from their labor.
JoelMahon@reddit
bruh the word genocide wasn't invented or propagated to describe the Holocaust
You know what word was? holocaust (small h).
you want an exclusive word that isn't watered down by calling what the IDF are doing a genocide? There you have it.
erythro@reddit
Yes it was, that's what the other commenter was explaining.
Alissinarr@reddit
To some "never again" means "no one else left aline."
4latar@reddit
if you believe that what is going on is israel is not a genocide you either are very ill informed, or a liar.
genocide is genocide, it is a crime of such infamy that it really can only be compared to itself, and so we do compare the holocaust to what is happening in gaza, because while the scale may be somewhat different, and the means are not identical, it is perpetrated by the same kind of ideology for the same reasons.
erythro@reddit
The scale is very different. Does the scale not matter? Isn't that what was so shocking about the Holocaust? Holocaust means "to entirely burn".
The means couldn't be more different. You are comparing systematic failures in preventing civilian death in a war, to death camps.
it's not, but that's not the definition of genocide
This is the actual reason it's called genocide, some people in the Israeli government have used genocidal rhetoric, and so those systematic failures are interpreted to be intentional attempts at destroying Palestinian people.
So - let's start at the bottom: do you think a survivor of the Holocaust might reasonably feel that comparing these two very different events is inappropriate? I'm not saying all survivors feel any particular way, I'm just asking would this hypothetical one be reasonable or not.
DerCatrix@reddit
Holocaust survivors have been calling this a genocide. Take your Netanyahu talking points and shove em up your ass
darkvaris@reddit
The survivors i’ve heard of are protesting against this. Not many left though. Rwanda not a genocide in your eyes? What a very convenient worldview you have.
Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Nowhere in the definition does it say “scale must reach industrial levels of a holocaust to count”
SowingSalt@reddit
So every war is a genocide now?
darkvaris@reddit
I strongly urge you read the Geneva Conventions before you utter idiocy again. Fighting combatants is not the same as routinely and systematically destroying a civilian population through active destruction and passive tools like starvation and disease.
There are laws defining what is and is not a “legitimate” war target
SowingSalt@reddit
So Hamas and other militants aren't combatants now? These same conventions you clearly have not read says that fortifications and fighting positions remove Geneva and Hague conventions protection from civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Blockade is also legal in war.
erythro@reddit
Sure, but don't mistake that for a trend. In this media bubble it gets boosted. I know a few survivors personally and they are pro Israel and worried, certainly not protesting the war.
Either way, my question is would you view this hypothetical survivor who objects as holding a valid/respectable opinion.
Yes, but that's kind of begging the question. I am talking about people who object to the definition as written.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
How sad that the victims of one genocide are now supporting another one, just because the people carrying it out are the same religion they are.
darkvaris@reddit
You do your entire people a tremendous shame
erythro@reddit
how so
re_carn@reddit
I like this flexible logic: when it comes to the losses suffered by the Soviet Union and Slavs in general during World War II, proponents of the “genocide only applies to Jews” argument claim that the percentage of victims was lower; when it comes to the genocide in Palestina, they point out that the absolute number of victims is lower.
Holocaust survivors have repeatedly stated that they consider what is happening in Gaza to be genocide. Or are you only interested in the opinions of those survivors who agree with you?
erythro@reddit
genocide doesn't only apply to the Jews. The percentage is lower in both cases by the way
I'm not saying all survivors feel any particular way
re_carn@reddit
So even though far more Slavs died in World War II, it doesn’t deserve to be called genocide? Okay.
Well, then admit that Holocaust survivors consider what is happening to be genocide.
erythro@reddit
that's not my view
I already did, some survivors hold that view, there is no view all survivors hold
re_carn@reddit
You rank genocides by the number of people killed and say that some people might not like it when the genocide in Gaza is called a genocide.
It is quite possible (and not surprising) that some Holocaust survivors believe it was not genocide.
Stubbs94@reddit
I think them, like all Zionists, see Palestinians as less than human.
Alissinarr@reddit
You're being disingenuous by conflating "holocaust" and "genocide"
erythro@reddit
could you explain
cesaroncalves@reddit
Not him but I'll explain.
A genocide is not always a holocaust, a holocaust is not always a genocide.
And another thing, there's "the Holocaust" -> Nazi Genocide.
and there is "a holocaust" -> mass destruction by fire (a wildfire could be called "a holocaust") or extreme violence.
Gaza is both a genocide and a holocaust.
I hope I made the 3 distinctions clear.
actuallywaffles@reddit
Do you think the Holocaust was the only genocide allowed to use the term? How many people have to die for you to deem it a genocide?
erythro@reddit
no. I just think people who are wary of using it widely are reasonable
actuallywaffles@reddit
Having an issue with people "widely using it" to refer to a particular genocide is a strange choice of words. Or are there other genocides you don't think should be allowed to use it?
It seems like you only take issue with this genocide because you don't like accepting who the victims/perpetrators are.
stprnn@reddit
No its not reasonable. Genocide is genocide.
4latar@reddit
sure, keep telling yourself that
erythro@reddit
sorry, which part of my comment is this meant to be a response to?
MightyArd@reddit
"The genocide I support isn't as bad as previous genocides".
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Lol trying to connect the war in gaza to a pride parade in Greece is stupid, no matter how you try to make everyone bend the knee to your omnicause.
And yes it's extra fucking stupid they hate the only country they would be accepted in
dubbilegali@reddit
I have a question for you, did you bother to read the article? Or the headline? Because as far as I'm aware Rome is quite a famous Italian city, the capital even so my question is, how stupid are you? (And I only used stupid since ignorant has a lot of syllables and I'm afraid you'd get confused and stop reading partway through).
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Lol I did read the article, but good catch either way guess i need to pay closer attention while taking a shit and typing!
I'm okay with admitting mistakes. I'll still take solace in knowing I'm not dumb enough to pretend queers for Palestine is anything more than a living billboard of irony. As well as a great caricature of the entire movement. Larping assholes, that are looking for value because they missed all the actual societial fights in the west, trying to get a smug sense of self satisfaction for "helping".
dubbilegali@reddit
I mean, that's fair, we all get mixed up from time to time, I guess it can happen to shit on human rights and leave actually informed opinions in the toilet while typing on the throne. As for the rest queer people can decide not to march with a genocidal nation's flag among us, that's literally the only thing that was banned, we'll make sure to make more space for your opinions on what's worth our discomfort and which causes we should care about next time around. In the meantime I'll wait here for you to organise your own manifestation for the societal fights that are worth it.
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
Bro thinks society in the west is perfect and “done cooking” so to say, lmao
Sure dude, all the social change that’s come before you is okay but anything that comes beyond what you’ve personally perceived as the “actual fights” is ironic.
You’re so smart dude wow
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Lol your fights are stupid is all
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
Yeah, you’ve made it very clear how much you value others’ lives 🤷♂️
Newbarbarian13@reddit
As opposed to you who does what, posts rambling screeds on the internet? Self satisfied online intellectuals are so tedious, keep it in the playground with your pals next time.
DrewbieWanKenobie@reddit
well, unless they were Muslim and gay. then the IDF would kill them just like any other
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Naw they probably would already either be in israel because they had to flee there families or dead from there families and friends because they're gay
Confused_Idiot_667@reddit
Bait, Psyop or mental illness?
erythro@reddit
They weren't banned from the parade for supporting the war in Gaza
Wanderhoden@reddit
Jewish colonialists terrorizing, murdering and removing Palestinians out of their homes for more Settler Lebensraum? Seems you and Helen Mirren both love justifying evil.
SowingSalt@reddit
Apparently Israelis preventing Arab colonialism, terrorism, murder and removing Jews from the MENA area is evil.
Palestine criminalizes selling to Jews. Israel doesn't do the same.
erythro@reddit
bot ass comment lol. Did you accidentally paste into the wrong thread?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
He's talking about you. You're the genocide supporter.
erythro@reddit
I don't support the war in Gaza or any genocide
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
You said elsewhere you support Israel. So you support Israel, but not what Israel does? That's like saying you're a Hitler/Nazi supporter but you're against the Holocaust and invasion of Poland.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Hates genocide but wants an entire country to no longer exist.... the irony
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Nazi Germany was dismantled, but the German people weren't genocided; they continue to live on.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Germany as a country still remained. You want israel to remain then?
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
If the went under the same denazification that the Germans did, 100%
erythro@reddit
it's like saying I love my country and want it to succeed but it's foreign policy isn't what I want right now
Stubbs94@reddit
You have a UK flag? Why are you supporting a colony in West Asia? And Israel has committed genocide.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
You answered your own question. Remember, outside of WWII, the UK has almost exclusively been on the wrong side of history.
Stubbs94@reddit
I think the two of us know that very, very well. I live in the UK though, wouldn't paint them all with the same brush
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Exactly. It's like a Nazi saying they love their Nazi Germany country but its policy isn't perfect right now.
SjakosPolakos@reddit
This seems so blatantly obvious. These Israël supporters live in some parallell universe where they really believe they are the good guys. People in nazi Germany thought the same probably.
DerCatrix@reddit
“Lesser crimes”
Literally go fuck yourself.
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
The holocaust is not a synonym for genocide 🤦♂️
AsWeKnowItAndI@reddit
The Holocaust isn't even the first genocide directed at Jews! Just because it's the atrocity that forced us to sit down and actually define (if still half assedly) genocide doesn't mean it's actually the singular gold standard of one and that you get to veto calling other ethnic cleansings genocides just because they aren't exactly like the Holocaust; if we're entering into that territory my Cherokee ass has some words to say.
Rovcore001@reddit
“Lesser crimes?”
semaj009@reddit
Lesser crimes, genocide is genocide, mate. Just because Israel are using decades of settlers, alongside bombs and starvation, doesn't mean it's not genocide. Of course the mechanisation of what the Germans did is horrendous, but it's also why Jewish people should be more anti-genocide before things get to that point, meanwhile Israel is passing execution laws for specifically Palestinians, that's fucking slippery slope shit that should terrify anyone who studied the holocaust, especially with Israeli technological supremacy v Palestinians.
hyrule_47@reddit
It’s not taking anything away from the horror of the Holocaust to properly label this as being a genocide also.
erythro@reddit
you are entitled to feel that way. Are people entitled to disagree?
Patric-Tsar-9fingers@reddit
They are.
History is also entitled to remember and judge people supporting a genocide.
erythro@reddit
We aren't talking about people supporting anything.
We are talking about people who might feel labelling the Gaza war as genocide takes away from the Holocaust. Is that unreasonable?
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
There have been numerous genocides in history, sadly there will be more.
The Holocaust already has a specific name that makes it stand out. But it isn't special enough to say "nothing else can be called a genocide ever again".
What's happening in Gaza undoubtedly is a genocide. Admitting that doesn't lessen what happened during the Holocaust, but denying that does appear to be attempting to minimise what's going on right now.
erythro@reddit
other things can be called genocide, sure
Many Jews think it does lessen what happened during the Holocaust.
hyrule_47@reddit
Then they are wrong.
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
Many Jews are being consciously or unconciously biased, and rapidly using up the reserves of sympathy which were earned by the torment of the Jews who died in the Holocaust to back up their actions in Gaza. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Patric-Tsar-9fingers@reddit
I'm just going to say one last thing and then move on from this conversation, and I hope somehow this exchange, as well as with the others, may make you question some things:
What you are saying is not only "unreasonable", it is extremely inhumane and vile. Your position, point, argument whatever, is sickening.
actuallywaffles@reddit
The Mayan genocide in Guatemala and Rohingya genocide in Myanmar have fewer deaths than the Holocaust. Does this mean they're not still genocides?
hyrule_47@reddit
Yes that is unreasonable.
Alissinarr@reddit
Very unreasonable.
erythro@reddit
why?
Patric-Tsar-9fingers@reddit
Yes, it is at least unreasonable.
erythro@reddit
Why? They are very different
darkvaris@reddit
Not without being called out. Say what you want but you will face whatever social consequences can be inflicted for downplaying and making excuses for genocide
erythro@reddit
it's not downplaying Gaza to say it's not as bad as the Holocaust or belongs in a different category to the Holocaust
darkvaris@reddit
There is already a different category for the holocaust. Its called The Holocaust.
cesaroncalves@reddit
Just to note, it's easier to achieve a holocaust than a genocide.
Gaza is also a holocaust.
A big wildfire with lots of death and destruction can be a holocaust.
A holocaust is also different from the Holocaust. The Holocaust referes to the Nazi genocide, a holocaust is mass destruction by fire or extreme violence.
darkvaris@reddit
Thanks for the explanation of the difference:)
erythro@reddit
That satisfies you, who doesn't have any connection to the Holocaust. Good for you.
darkvaris@reddit
Frankly at this point you are using the people who died as a totem to steal their valor and pain. You, personally, disgust me.
Also very strange assumption that because I am not Jewish I have no connection to the Holocaust. You do know not only Jewish people were victims there, right? LGBT people, Romani, Polish dissidents, etc. All were also rounded up and killed during the Holocaust. Didn’t you go to school?
erythro@reddit
no, I'm just pointing out your callousness
I was assuming that because of your behaviour in this thread, I've no idea if you are Jewish or not or any other group that was a victim of the Holocaust
Betyarkortelekvar@reddit
Why are pretending to be an idiot? All you are accomplishing is that we are believing you.
erythro@reddit
nice to meet you too
Betyarkortelekvar@reddit
I wish, I felt the same way
Stubbs94@reddit
People are allowed to disagree the same way people are allowed to question the Holocaust. Both are disgusting.
stprnn@reddit
Lesser crime? Is this a competition?
erythro@reddit
the scale of the Holocaust matters
stprnn@reddit
This is not about that
neverfoundagirl@reddit
No, because this isn't a broadening of the term. It is a dictionary definition of what's happening. You are defending genocide denial and you should be ashamed.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
There have been worse genocides than the Holocaust. You are defending an ethnocentric supremacist ideology.
Touristenopfer@reddit
From your very crude perspective, that's you saying October 7th was okay, since Hamas by an order of magnitude didn't kill as many Israelis as Israel has killed Palestinians before? Is that really your point?
A genocide is a genocide, a kill is a kill, a murder a murder. Someone having done more or worse is only a justification for a really fucked up mind, don't you think?
erythro@reddit
my point is no one is saying anything is ok, the Jews weren't banned from the float for saying the game war was ok, they were banned for refusing to categorise it in the same category as the Holocaust
Demodonaestus@reddit
More like for refusing to categorise as a genocide. They are the ones who keep bringing up holocaust in response to accusations of ONGOING GENOCIDE. If that's not a bad faith response, I don't know what is. And I'm an Indian, don't give a fuck what religion you are, and certainly don't care that you're jewish. We are one of the very few places in history where the Jewish people lived peacefully. What is being done right now by the Israelis is a disgrace. And bringing up holocaust in response to an active genocide is seriously gross and disgusting, to say nothing of how it cheapens the lives of those who actually went through the holocaust and wouldn't want it visited on their worst enemies. As someone who's been a great admirer of the Jewish people and their history, I cannot reconcile that contemporary Israelis are supposed to be descendents of those same intellectual giants.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
As an Indian you should realize that if Pakistan did what Hamas did there would be a resulting war as well
erythro@reddit
yes, same thing
Why? Like I said they are being asked to group them, I think it's reasonable to have reservations about doing that
Demodonaestus@reddit
I think you are the one who keep bringing up holocaust in particular when the rest are talking about genocides in general, which naturally includes holocaust.
Recognising a genocide as a genocide doesn't take away from the genocide that the Jewish people suffered at the hands of the Nazis. If anything, it respects their suffering and attempts to ensure that it doesn't happen again, which by the way we're failing at right now because of what the Israelis are up to. I don't see why any reasonable person when someone refers to the gazan genocide should feel like they're trying to downplay the sufferings of their jewish ancestors. I assure you, at least, I, personally, don't mean to belittle the suffering of your people, I honestly don't think about the 1940s when talking about the politics of today. I don't forget it but it's not the first thing that's comes to mind when I think of the children being killed right now. The fact that my thinking seems strange to you is honestly just bewildering.
erythro@reddit
yes, because the Holocaust is the archetypal genocide by which we understand the concept of genocide
again, I think what the Israelis are doing right now is very different to the Holocaust. I can understand the definition of genocide the UN accepted and why people apply it to Gaza
I really do appreciate that, I'm just trying to help you understand why some Jews might be uncomfortable signing that statement, whether it was Israel or not
Demodonaestus@reddit
Yes, and I understand also why some people might be uncomfortable. I, however, am of the opinion that casual child murder and the deletion of a people should be prioritized over their feelings.
Also, Lemkin used genocide not only to refer to the Holocaust but also, the Armenian genocide, which well predates it, and therefore is more archetypal. I don't see why that matters though. A genocide is a genocide, I don't have a favorite flavour.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
The whole thing is disgraceful. Do you make Russians sign off on hating Putin before participating in public life?
Touristenopfer@reddit
"and I think it's reasonable for Jews to not want lesser crimes compared to the Holocaust, which the broadening of the term genocide does"
You literally said its reasonable to deny it beeing a genocide just because not enough people where killed. For real?
erythro@reddit
I'm not sure what you are asking
Touristenopfer@reddit
Nothing I'm suprised about.
Jumbo-box@reddit
Do you see what I have to share an island with?
Back in the past, the same zionists were busy killing British people, including lynching and wiring with explosives, British soldiers. Biggest terrorist bombing against us was the King David hotel, by zionists.
And now, the holocaust is only about Jewish people. Fuck the others murdered by the regime though, right? They don't matter because zionism is a supremacist ideology. And this infidel goyim licks their boots.
Pathetic.
pkosuda@reddit
In one place in the thread he's forced to admit there are Holocaust survivors who call Gaza a genocide, while elsewhere he claims someone must not have family who died in the Holocaust given their position on Gaza being a genocide. The guy just keeps flip flopping depending on who he's arguing with.
I'm not even sure if it's a bot anymore because there absolutely are zionists who are this awful as human beings.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
Pretty sure he's not a goy lol
cerea1killer_@reddit
Lesser crimes? Are you delusional? The scale at which a people or a population, is systematically killed/eradicated does not define a genocide?! Whether a serial killer murders 4 people or 40 people, that person is still a serial killer. Those were still murders that were committed. Just because Israel is not leading Palestinians and other Arabs to gas chambers and is instead systematically leveling entire neighborhoods, bombing civilians and just straight up shooting unarmed civilians in the street all with the target to destroy their existence in what Israel claims to be land that Palestinians stole?!
erythro@reddit
Half the people in this thread are calling me crazy for suggesting people are equating the Holocaust with Gaza, and the other half are calling me crazy for not agreeing they are the same. Maybe you guys should be arguing with each other not me
pkosuda@reddit
I have read 30+ of your comments and have yet to see a single person say this. You can DM me this if you don't feel comfortable answering here: are you a bot? Because I don't understand why you would blatantly lie like this otherwise. I have read argument after argument all saying the same thing to you: that including what's happening in Gaza as a "genocide" does not lessen what happened in the Holocaust. I've seen people get creative by making analogies to help you understand that you can call two things of different severity the same term while still acknowledging one is more severe (the Holocaust). I have also literally seen people telling you not to make an olympics out of comparing genocides.
The only person here trying to equate Gaza and the Holocaust is you, actually.
But I'm not going to be foolish. You've argued with literally several dozen strangers and no amount of logic has gotten through to you, so I know there's nothing I can say that will do it either. I did however feel the need to call out you blatantly lying.
cerea1killer_@reddit
Deflection is your greatest strength isn't it?
thebolts@reddit
That’s hypocritical. The Genocide Convention was created because of the holocaust in 1948 and ratified by a good number of countries including Israel to stop other genocides from happening.
Jimcompetent@reddit
Isn't that specifically what the word "Holocaust" is for? To distinguish the specific genocide of the Jewish people by Nazi Germany?
Would you likewise refuse to refer to the Armenian Genocide as a genocide on the grounds that fewer people were murdered than in the Holocaust?
Refusing to acknowledge that Israel's actions have been argued by multiple independent organisations and a UN Commission to meet the legal definition of genocide doesn't preserve the uniqueness of the Holocaust. It obfuscates reality and minimises the severity of the crimes being committed by Israel. There is no 'broadening of the term' here
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Lesser crimes? Is this a fucking competition? Israel is commiting a genocide.
TheBeardPlays@reddit
Did you just insinuate that the genocide in Gaza is somehow a "lesser crime"... As if the mass slaughter of civilians can somehow be placed on a scale where in some cases we just shrug and ignore it because it's not in your eyes equal to the suffering another minority group experienced in the past? Just typing this is blowing my mind... Did you even think about what you are saying for like a single second? No one is boarding the term genocide... We are using it to describe what we see. That makes you uncomfortable then I would suggest that you have some deep introspection to do. Never again hey....
erythro@reddit
yes 100% I am, almost everything is less bad than the Holocaust, surely that's uncontroversial
No, I'm not saying it should be ignored, we are just talking about whether it is rightly grouped with the Holocaust
TheBeardPlays@reddit
Genocide is not a ranking system where the Holocaust sits at the top and everything below it gets downgraded into some other category
Calling something genocide is not the same as saying it is identical to the Holocaust in scale, method, ideology, bureaucracy, historical meaning, or death toll. It means people are arguing that a particular kind of crime is being committed against a protected group... that crime is called genocide. Look it up; the UN defined what a genocide is very clearly it is 1948 convention. Its not like its some nebulous undefined concept.
So “almost everything is less bad than the Holocaust” may be true in the most obvious possible sense but it is also irrelevant. Murder is still murder if it is not the worst murder in history. Ethnic cleansing is still ethnic cleansing if it is not the worst ethnic cleansing in history. Genocide does not stop being genocide because you can point to a larger or more historically singular genocide.
My feeling is your discomfort here seems to come from treating the word “genocide” as if it belongs exclusively to Jewish suffering because of the Holocaust. I understand why that word carries enormous weight, especially for Jewish people. But protecting the memory of the Holocaust does not require narrowing the concept of genocide so much that other mass atrocities become harder to name.
Nobody is saying Gaza is “the same as the Holocaust”. That is your framing. What we are saying is that what is happening in Gaza meets the moral, factual, and legal threshold for genocide. The majority of the world including the most preeminent schoolers agree this is the case. The Holocaust being a far greater genocide does not stop this from being one too.
Its really simple.
darkvaris@reddit
The holocaust doesn’t have an embargo on the definition of genocide. Currently, right now, there are at least 2 different genocides being conducted (and probably more) per the literal definition of the word. Gaza, Sudan, etc.
Really fucked up to say that these are “lesser crimes” unfitting to be called out for what they are. Really prioritizing your comfort here dude
erythro@reddit
It is not unfitting to say these are lesser crimes, they are lesser than the Holocaust
??
JoelMahon@reddit
right, lesser than the holocaust, which is why we're calling them genocides, not holocausts (small h)
you wanted a term that differentiates THE Holocaust from other lesser genocides, you have it, it's called a holocaust, and it's a more extreme form of genocide.
it was invented specifically for this reason, why are you still complaining that genocide is being used and that the Holocaust doesn't get a differentiating term when it does?
erythro@reddit
the word genocide was created to describe the crime of the Holocaust - they aren't unrelated terms, and they are certainly not in the minds of many Jews. I think it's reasonable for Jews to feel that way, given how devastating the Holocaust was
octoroks@reddit
lemkin also considered colonialism a form of genocide, which is exactly what the israelis are doing
octoroks@reddit
lemkin also considered colonialism a form of genocide, which is exactly what the israelis are doing
darkvaris@reddit
Only if you think the people being killed in them are lesser than yours. A genocide is a term that is used to describe precisely the defined systemic violence inflicted on these people. No one I see here is arguing to call it a holocaust. So you do not see these events as being worthy of the same level of rejection and disgust merely because they aren’t happening to your people.
Any one of my jewish friends would find your position disgusting. We’ve had these talks and they’re antizionist
erythro@reddit
No, I could also think it's lesser because vastly fewer people in both number and proportion are being killed, and the intent to destroy the people is far less clear and even at best very abstract. We can all agree about that
I would say I was anti-zionist too if you were my friend, and then swiftly change the subject. A lot safer that way
pbzeppelin1977@reddit
I don't think these are classed as a genocide yet but there's Rohingyas severely suffering through the current Myanmar civil war with Bangladesh wanting nothing to do with them. Then there's the Taureg of northern Mali have gone through long term erasure and more recently invasion by the Islamic State destabilising both the official government and the Taureg people.
Illesbogar@reddit
"Lesser crimes" 🙏
erythro@reddit
yes, obviously the Holocaust is worse than the Gaza war
Illesbogar@reddit
Genocide is genocide. Let's not nake an olympics out of it, shall we?
Alissinarr@reddit
Reasonable people can be swayed by evidence and fact. If the legal definition of the term fits....
erythro@reddit
what if you object to the legal definition
Brief_Fly6950@reddit
You do realize the Holocaust isn’t and won’t be the only major crime in history right
erythro@reddit
yes, nothing like
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Lol the old
"I'm one of the good ones"
DerCatrix@reddit
Jewish people aren’t your enemy, AIPAC and the Israeli government is.
Pklnt@reddit
Actual antisemitism, bravo
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Naw champ. Trying to do "as a jew" is fucking stupid and doesn't make them anymore of authority on anything.
Pklnt@reddit
He didn't try to make an argument from authority.
He responded to a comment generalizing what the Jews are thinking.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
They seemed to be a monolith in the parade
Pklnt@reddit
Mental gymnastics
Little-Stage1948@reddit
What other jewish groups are participating?
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
Just take the L
Little-Stage1948@reddit
So none?
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
Bruh, take the L it’s not getting any better for you
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
Please list other so called "genocides" you don't agree with the labelling of. With you only disagreeing with one right now it's difficult to gauge your intent here.
Do you believe the following are or are not genocides: - Rwandan genocide of the Tutsis - Armenian genocide - Cambodian genocide - Rohingya genocide - Dafur genocide (Sudan) - Holodomor
erythro@reddit
These aren't my views, I've no idea, you will have to ask them how they define it. I think it's reasonable to have a more restrictive definition of genocide, I'm not attached to I've particular threshold though
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
You said you don't agree with calling the Gaza war a genocide, and you say the definition should be more restrictive.
If so, please go ahead and restrict.
erythro@reddit
I am defending the views of others
redridingoops@reddit
That's called "being a lawyer", people work hard, get a degree and then get paid for that.
You're just a lame contrarian.
smegabass@reddit
Fkn hell. Coward.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
🤡
QtPlatypus@reddit
Then own the views you are defending. If you can't defend them when the are put to the test perhaps those views are not worth defending.
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
There’s been more than just a Jewish genocide, they don’t have a monopoly on the term.
regalrecaller@reddit
I guess not? The IDF moved yesterday to occupy the rest of Gaza yesterday. More than 50000 Gazan children have been murdered by Israel, to say nothing of the adults.
Fuck Bibi.
stprnn@reddit
Jews don't have reservations. Zionists do.
erythro@reddit
Jews do because of what it's implying about the Holocaust
stprnn@reddit
Nope
dasunt@reddit
And what is it implying?
redridingoops@reddit
The context being ongoing genocide and blatant hypocrisy, cry me a river.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
Bad faith false equivocation in defense of unspeakable atrocities just like equating Jews with Zionists. Shame on you defending genocide.
Anti-genocide-club@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
erythro@reddit
that bad huh
The_Narwhal_Mage@reddit
Oh, this is an explicitly Jewish news source. It literally says the words “Jewish Independent Nonprofit” underneath their logo. I get the feeling that this might not be the most impartial coverage of this specific story.
meister2983@reddit
They link to the first party sources.. you can judge it yourself
Drab_Majesty@reddit
I would judge the group on their social media posts and organisations they associate with. Doesn't look good when combined with the issue from last year's parade with the minute silence for Gaza.
azure_beauty@reddit
Should we judge every participant by their social media posts? Because I have no doubts that we'll see plenty of participants who were only too happy to see Jews slaughtered by terrorists.
Drab_Majesty@reddit
I am glad people like you are facing consequences, you aren't welcome
fireandlifeincarnate@reddit
uh, yeah, we should generally be judging people by the things they say, yes
azure_beauty@reddit
Well that's not being done, and it's only on the cause of Israel that we are singled out and expelled.
fireandlifeincarnate@reddit
Have you tried not committing genocide? I personally find that not committing genocide reduces the rate at which I get shit talked online.
azure_beauty@reddit
Russia is actively commiting genocide against Ukraine. China has its Muslims in reeducation camps. The UAE are funding the mass slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civillians in Sudan just because they are of a different ethnicity.
The problem is not genocide (which doesn't exist) or crimes against humanity, the problem is our very existence.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
If Russia's war crimes constitute a genocide then what the fuck would you call Israel's policy towards Gaza?
azure_beauty@reddit
Israel is not kidnapping Palestinian children to have them adopted by Jewish families and raised as Jews to then go and fight other Palestinians.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
No they are simply kidnapped and put into extended arrests without legal process or ability to appeal. Very different!
Also, trying to focus this discussion on a single issue is to intentionally try to avoid the bigger picture. Russia is repeatedly killing Ukrainan civilians and targeting critical life-supporting infrastructure. If that is Genocide then GOOD GOD Israel's is doing genocide in Gaza.
azure_beauty@reddit
Detention without a fair trial is a war crime, but it is not an act of genocide.
Again, words have definitions.
You're missing the whole point, because no, destroying infrastructure without overarching genocidal intent is not genocide, nor is killing Ukrainians without a specific intent to destroy them as a people group.
The different is, in Russia there is genocidal intent, and you have children bring kidnapped and taken to be raised in another culture, an undisputable act of genocide.
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
And you don't think there is in your society...? Are you home blind, do you partake in the Israeli discourse, or just trying to propagandize the ***?
In Gaza the kids are simply being killed. Russia believing in the ethnic homogenity of the Ukrainians and their Russians, and Israel believing in the absolute distinction between Palestinians and Jews is not a good argument or an excuse for anything.
If nothing else the Ukrainian children are still allowed to live on. The Gaza kids are mutilated, maimed, crippled and mentally and socially annihilated.
regalrecaller@reddit
Should we judge every participant by their social media posts? Because I have no doubts that we'll see plenty of participants who were only too happy to see Palestinians slaughtered by Jewish terrorists.
azure_beauty@reddit
By all means, if someone supports the slaughter of Palestinian civillians, or any civilians for that matter, exclude them.
But keshet does not support killing innocent people, and people who do support killing civillians are allowed to participate just fine.
regalrecaller@reddit
do they get funding from the state of Israel? if yes then they are complicit. they would also get advisory policies from Israel that go along with the money, same as aipac.
azure_beauty@reddit
What makes you think that?
jaynic1@reddit
Seems like that minute of silence stuff last year was because they were the only ones not told about it, and the problematic org they collaborated with was in 2023 just to plant some trees. Idk if they still associate with that org though, I got this info off the jewishleft sub.
Drab_Majesty@reddit
Yeah I have heard of the excuses and I have heard they chose to turn the volume up when confronted. I guess you can make up your own mind if it was a simple misunderstanding or something more apathetic.
WestcoastAlex@reddit
nice. all over the world the tide is turning against the genocidal apartheid state
in a lot of our countries genocide denialism is a crime? but for zionists its like their national passtime
pinkwashing war crimes is pretty gross
erythro@reddit
* checks post history *
Canadian, wall to wall anti-Israel content, some anti-Semitic tropes, organising lists of Jews to target
I don't know what I expected
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
Having anti Israel content is a good sign. Why don't you have it? Are you okay with genocide?
erythro@reddit
I'm pro Israel, but my point was it's their entire account lol
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
So you are pro genocide. I don't need to know anything else about you.
erythro@reddit
being pro Israel isn't the same as being pro genocide. Israel and genocide are two different things. Not really sure how to explain that any simpler
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
Being Pro israel is being pro genocide. It's a very simple concept, but I don't expect anything better from a brit.
erythro@reddit
Israel isn't genocide. they are different concepts?
It's like saying being pro-ireland is being pro-tax haven. Ireland is currently a tax haven, I can like Ireland and want it to succeed as a state and still think it being a tax haven is bad.
Sorry to explain something so basic, apologies if there's some misunderstanding I'm not getting here
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
Oh Jeysus i knew brexit had fucked the brit schools, but this is unhinged. XD
Remember not to spend all your hasbara money on the same place, lad.
erythro@reddit
what is?
no one sincerely disagrees with you, everyone who seems to is paid, that's all. This is a normal and healthy response to encountering different views online and anyone who tells you otherwise is also paid.
AwkwardTal@reddit
It's a simple concept, we normal people when we see someone being pro the apartheid ethnostate; we put them into two groups (which they overlap)
1- pro genocide because they are evil
2- money hungry, evil and opportunistic
erythro@reddit
I'm pro Israel because a strong Jewish state is the best solution to global anti-semitism
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
Israel is the leading cause of antisemitism today By trying to claim anything they don't like is antisemitic they're actually making real antisemitism worse.
cropduster102@reddit
People choose to be antisemitic. Israel's existence or lack thereof isn't a factor. Claiming it is is just a smokescreen, just as forcing any Jewish group to provide a disclaimer for anything is an antisemitic choice. Would you require the same thing of a Chinese group given the treatment of Uyghurs? Or an Iranian one given the treatment of women? If the answer to any of those questions is "no" then you are specifically targeting the one jewish group and singling them out.
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
Oh so you are simply evil.
erythro@reddit
why is that evil?
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
You are supporting the creation of an ethno state. And that is evil, bo matter the reasons.
erythro@reddit
why? And again, the reason is the failure of the states that had Jews to protect them from annihilation. Everyone who agreed with your view in the 30s was dead by the 50s.
ThegreatKhan666@reddit
I don't give a fuck. I won't support and ethnostate. If Israel and it's people don't wanna be seen as the second coming of nazi Germany, they should have not committed genocide.
erythro@reddit
I know people generally prefer dead Jews, but I prefer living ones
farbenfux@reddit
Wanna ask an Israel Genocide Scholar what he thinks? https://jacobin.com/2024/07/amos-goldberg-genocide-gaza-israel
Equating tax benefits with war crimes, torture and colonizing is wild.
SowingSalt@reddit
Imagine using Jacobin as a serious source.
regalrecaller@reddit
...so you're not denying that Ireland is a tax haven, but are denying that Israel is doing a genocide? there's your misunderstanding.
Treadwheel@reddit
It was already disturbing to hear you deny the genocide in Gaza on the basis that acknowledging a "lesser crime" would somehow threaten the Jewish monopoly on the term. Seeing you compare a literal genocide to tax evasion though? That is well into the territory of moral depravity.
kn05is@reddit
Oh but it is, because if you're not denouncing it loudly then you are being disingenuous. Gaza genocide denial is just as despicable as denying the Holocaust.
AlucardVTep3s@reddit
I’m anti-Israel but my account is mainly filled with gaming stuff. Would my opinion count?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
"Guys guys I'm pro Nazi Germany, but not pro-Holocaust. They're different words!"
WestcoastAlex@reddit
kinda wierd announcing you are pro rape
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-897572
https://www.jfeed.com/news-israel/gush-etzion-ritualistic-abuse
erythro@reddit
ah you misread my comment I think - I said Israel not rape
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
Ah, yes, not paying attention to a genocide is a virtue
Ok-Goose6242@reddit
Lmao, why does Canadian lok like an instant here
erythro@reddit
no insult to Canadians! It's just demonstrating the obsession with another country has completely taken over their account.
AnAussiebum@reddit
With your post history, do you not see the irony in your comment?
erythro@reddit
No, not really, I occasionally post about Israel amidst other things.
AnAussiebum@reddit
Not only are you a Brit who has commented many times on this thread, but your comment history is VERY focused on one specific topic (religion), so it is a tad hypocritical to criticise a Canadian who also comments mostly on one topic. 😅
erythro@reddit
I do comment on other things, it goes in phases. You know how it is.
It is suspicious in my view, for a random Canadian to be so dedicated to being anti Israel
AnAussiebum@reddit
As a Brit you should be aware that Gaza and Isreal is one of the top issues that voters cared about in the last local election and will be very relevant going into the next general election. So it is bizarre that you appear perplexed that someone who is not isreali or Palestinian cares about this issue. It is very topical currently, globally. Same as Russia vs Ukraine.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
Voters caring about Gaza and Israel, in a local election, when picking politicians whose jobs are to make sure bins are picked up on time and the potholes in the roads are fixed, is a brilliant example of single-issue-voters being effectively lobotomised.
AnAussiebum@reddit
It's also besides the point I was making. Which is that Brits are very aware how topical this issue is. Which is why it is weird the other commenter takes issues with a Canadian commenting on the issue.
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Youve posted dozens of times in this thread alone lol. You're obsessed with defending them.
erythro@reddit
I think about 2 or 3 comments and then it's mostly replying to replies to them. This is my first time being active in this subreddit for a little while
WestcoastAlex@reddit
lots of people use Alts to comment on politics ..
your post history is pretty hilarious bro.. talking snakes and pedo preists turn you on huh
erythro@reddit
So you have another account where you're a normal human being?
Yes I'm religious - I've got lots of interests :) Why don't you?
WestcoastAlex@reddit
lol. talking snake
erythro@reddit
we can talk religion if you like - do you need to switch account?
Or would going off topic mean you don't get paid? I can wait until you are off the clock if you like
WestcoastAlex@reddit
sorry i dont encourage peoples delusions.. you can talk about talking snakes with your cult members in peace
erythro@reddit
yes, you wouldn't want to get off track 😁
WestcoastAlex@reddit
you showed up and didnt even try to adress the issue, instead focussing on my comment history. so in fact we are still on track because your goatherder cult of rapey preists is what you talk about mostly
erythro@reddit
that's fair. I'm mostly just saying I find your account suspicious I guess
WestcoastAlex@reddit
normal for a pedo
Drab_Majesty@reddit
Perhaps an explanation for why the group would be asked where they stand before this year's parade.
azure_beauty@reddit
Where was the minute of silence for civillian victims in Israel? In Ukraine? If the point is truly acknowledging civillian suffering and separating it from the government, how come only Gazan civillians get this privilege?
Drab_Majesty@reddit
this is how Zionists try and defend their disgusting behaviour, absolute lowest level of humanity
jsting@reddit
That's literally whataboutism, which is a poor argument.
azure_beauty@reddit
This usage of "whataboutism" is just a convenient way to avoid addressing double standards, because you believe one cause is holier than another.
But you are wrong, if you claim that this is purely to honor the civillians and not the government, then you should honor all civillians.
jsting@reddit
That argument is literally the one used by white supremacists in the US during the Black Lives Matter movement.
They took that movement and said, "but what about all lives?" while ignoring the point was to shine a light on the issue that black people are killed at a higher rate by police than other races.
So to use this analogy, do Israeli civilians get killed at the same rate as Palestinian civilians? I don't know what is going on the ground, but the UN concludes that Israel's actions in Gaza constitutes genocide. I don't see any international body calling what Palestinians are doing to Israelis as a genocide.
azure_beauty@reddit
The BLM protests were specifically protesting the unequal treatment on the basis of race, the whole point was that you were uplifting certain voices.
This is not the case here, where organizations pretend to care about all civilians while saying they are not responsible for the crimes Hamas commits. The problem is, if you claim to care about all civillians, how come it is only Palestinians that get any attention?
What makes any international body more legitimate than a private organization? Does the majority have a monopoly on truth? Because the 50+ Arab states sure don't hide their biases against the Jews.
jsting@reddit
The reason why an international body is more legitimate than a private organization is because of reputation. The UN is a known organization world wide with funding from the majority of countries. In the report, they define what their goals, processes, and legal definitions they used to get to their conclusion. The author attempts to make a conclusion from a neutral standpoint.
A private organization, you have to specify ownership and what they believe in. If the private organization is funded by Israelis, their opinion on the matter may lean one way. If you use Al Jazeera, their opinion will be anti-Israel. You wouldn't trust Rupert Murdoch for balanced news. But NPR or the BBC are generally ranked more balanced due to their reputations.
kn05is@reddit
The world cried for you on Oct 7th, don't get this shit twisted. It's what Israel did afterwards that has us disgusted.
Genocide, mass murder, starvation, torture, rape, invasion, bombing of neighbours, stealing homes and brutalizing the people of the west bank, and the lost goes on...
Don't pretend like you're the victim...
azure_beauty@reddit
I still remember the pro-Palestine marches in the streets of London and New York on October 7 and 8, celebrating the resistance and claiming we were genociding them, meanwhile Palestinian terrorists were still killing people in Israel.
regalrecaller@reddit
censuring Jews everywhere is a valid response for the state of Israel committing genocide.
ChillAhriman@reddit
Looking at the reaction of the Zionist organization, great ban and hope they're never allowed back.
No, you assholes. Your crime is not standing against genocide. It's not that hard to grasp, and the fact that you keep trying to muddy the waters indicates that you're engaging in plausible denialism in order to avoid criticism. If the victims of the atrocities in Gaza were Jewish rather than Arabs, you would immediately stop being this dense. You don't belong in any movement that aims to promote freedom and equality.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Spains mask dropped too, watch your cops beat those activists. It’s ok we know you hate jews
ChillAhriman@reddit
Zionists immediately resorting to whataboutisms when they have nothing of substance to add is nothing new, but bringing up the fact that cops beat up pro-Palestinian activists to accuse Spain of hating Jews is getting a new tier in the nonsense tier list.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
It’s ok, we still know you hate Jews 🥰
cambeiu@reddit
Yes, what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. No "ifs", "ands" or "buts". G-E-N-O-C-I-D-E.
But barring an ITALIAN group from the parade because they refuse to endorse a political manifesto will not help anyone. An LGBTQ parade is a manifestation of freedom, including the freedom to go against the prevailing view. It is contradictory that only those who conform to a particular political view (one that I personally 100% support) can participate in such an event.
That is not an effective way to change people's minds.
SowingSalt@reddit
Not even Karim Khan says Israel is committing a genocide. That's a whole lot of '"ifs", "ands" and "buts"'
Riddles_@reddit
asking people who have been the victims of genocide to stand alongside genocide deniers for the sake of changing the genocide deniers’ minds is really rich. making the claim that not shaming these people and refusing to deny them space is going to make them feel so warm and fuzzy and included that they’ll finally see the light is even richer
neverendingchalupas@reddit
You realize its been 81 years since the end of WWII? How many +90 year old gay Italian Jews were going to take part in the Pride Parade?
How dumb are we taking this conversation?
Riddles_@reddit
look up transgender genocide
BlueKante@reddit
Your party, your rules.
cambeiu@reddit
Not "their" party as it is paid for by public funds that the barred group also paid for in taxes.
QtPlatypus@reddit
So if a "straight pride" group wanted to join would they have to be allowed because they where tax payers?
meister2983@reddit
Wait this is paid by public funds?
https://www.romapride.it/pride/documento-politico/
This is just an Italian thing where highly political organizations got public funding? This is hardly some narrowly focused civil rights group
Li-renn-pwel@reddit
One problem is that people have poor knowledge of genocide. Genocide does not require a single person to be killed (for example, sterilization prevent reproduction but doesn’t kill people generally) yet people try to deny the genocide by saying Palestinian population has grown.
Dirkdeking@reddit
If what happens in Palestine is considered a genocide, then a lot more events in world history we that aren't commonly viewed as genocide would have to join that list. Like the forcible dislocation of German communities post WWII in places like Koningsberg(now Kaliningrad) as well as certain allied bombing campaigns.
QtPlatypus@reddit
I have no problem in considering forcible dislocation as a crime against humanity. Likewise regarding the trail of tears as having genocidal intent is something I think we should also agree with.
QtPlatypus@reddit
An LGBTQ parade is a manifestation of freedom from oppression. Supporting freedom from oppression is incompatible with denying an act of genocide. This isn't a case of "contradicting a particular point of view" this is a case of not allowing genocide denialists to have a float.
LGBTQ parades isn't about all freedoms to go against the prevailing views. Otherwise they would have flat earthers and perpetual motion inventers marching with them.
winei001@reddit
So I could just accuse you of denying the made-up genocide of made-up "Lech-Wisła" and therefore ban you from pride? Or If I accused trans people of genocide of their former identities, trans people who refuse to condemn their own transition would be banned.
Furthermore;The Jewish population of Rome was approximately 13,000 to 15,000 people in 1980 and is approximately 10,000 to 15,000 people today. The population of the Gaza Strip was approximately 430,000 to 455,000 in 1980 and has increased to 1,997,328 in 2022. And it has further increased to 2.1 million as of February 16, 2026.
If the demographics of the Jews in Rome followed the demographic development of Gaza, there would be 70,000 Jews in Rome instead of just 15,000.
However, if the demographics of Gaza followed the demographic development of the Jews in Rome, there would be less than half a million people in Gaza instead of over two million.
QtPlatypus@reddit
My response was directed towards /u/cambeiu who excepts the reality of the gazen genocide.
Your response is like trying to defend an accusation of attempted murder by saying "But he is not dead".
Cubusphere@reddit
Ah, so you simply don't know what genocide is. It's not that hard to look up.
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
Nah, sorry to be blunt, but fuck that.
Freedom and oppression do not walk hand in hand, and it should not be socially acceptable to be a genocide denier. It's not political, it's factual.
It's not socially acceptable to be a Holocaust denier for good reason, so why would it be acceptable to do this?
Queer racists don't get to have a "Gay for the Facista" float do they?
Low-Complaint771@reddit
PRIDE is about promoting a human right to be free to choose who you love.. The foundational human right is the Right to Live... Denying Genocide in Gaza is pulling at the whole house of cards protecting and celebrating the rainbow of flavours that make up humanity..
sailorbrendan@reddit
Are you Italian?
meister2983@reddit
I'm so glad I live in San Francisco, where are pride parade has evolved into a comfortable, apolitical event, where everyone can happily walk with their tech company and celebrate together.
bauhausy@reddit
A pride parade is inherently a political event. You absolutely can't separate politics from it. It was born as a political manifestation and remains so every year it happens
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
I thought it was dark satire when they mentioned the walking with your tech company.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Based on what that user normally posts (from memory) they're being fully serious unfortunately, they really a parody of themselves
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
it is lol, there is no way that can be not sarcasm tbf, but really hard to tell.
Lots of clowns on here would say all sorts of terrible things
TheIrishBread@reddit
Which while we hate it is the reason we have /s
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
yup
Dirkdeking@reddit
But you can strictly limit it's political dimension to LGBT rights only. It makes no sense to split your members on non LGBT issues.
photoinduced@reddit
Why stop there? Let's split the LGs from the Bs and definitely from the Ts i mean what do they have incommon really? /s
photoinduced@reddit
What's your favourite float? Mine was Queer at Lockheed Martin and Fags4Palantir
saoirsedonciaran@reddit
😂 fair roast
neverfoundagirl@reddit
How is that asshole still not banned
saoirsedonciaran@reddit
Who? I think it's a fair criticism to highlight the corporate pinkwashing of US and Israeli war crimes.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
meister
Daysleeper1234@reddit
Someone bring water, quickly.
Khers@reddit
This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Apolitical pride parade? Holy shit, it's nice to know the frequent Israel supporters in this sub are this dumb.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
How is this asshole still not banned?
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
You can't be serious lmao
civodar@reddit
There is way more behind the scenes drama than you realize lol. Last year at the Vancouver pride parade our grand marshal denounced the whole thing and released a statement saying he wasn’t going to participate because he felt that queer people who wanted solidarity with other repressed groups were being silenced. Then we had the queers for Palestine people stage a protest in the middle of the parade. There was also a very political dyke march the very next day that really felt like it was there to say fuck you to the official pride parade.
The thing is most people outside of the queer community saw this and assumed that Palestinian protestors wanted to disrupt a parade and didn’t realize all the shit that went on before and after and the weeks of infighting within the community. They didn’t know about the dyke march, or that the grand marshal denounced the whole thing, or that there even is a grand marshal, or that some people who were originally supposed to march suddenly lost that privilege.
Damn near every pride parade is like this.
sootfire@reddit
It's always heartening to see a large institution stand up for Palestine like this but always disheartening to see that a Zionist group is "the only Jewish group" in a particular space. The conflation of Zionism with Judaism and the implicit (and explicit) exclusion of antizionist Jews is always concerning.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
Honestly, this seems perfectly reasonable. It's not hard to admit that Israel is committing genocide. It's not like they're even trying to hide it. Their religion doesn't give them a free pass to downplay what's going on.
neverfoundagirl@reddit
🤣
Li-renn-pwel@reddit
I’m a little unclear if all people getting a float were required to acknowledge the Gazan genocide and denounce the Israeli government + IDF for doing it? Or was it just the Jews organization? I think it’s more understandable to find it offensive to be asked if they only Jews to do this. Like if a Muslim group was the only group asked to officially condemn 9/11 before being given a float. But if everyone was asked then I see no reason why it would be antisemitic. It’s a cop out to say that’s something for the ICC to rule one because a lot of genocides haven’t been. Genocide is a very hard to prove crime because people usually hide either their violence or their intent.
travistravis@reddit
It sounds like it's only the ones who disrupted the moment of silence during last year's parade.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
A few notes
They have an official partnership with the JA, that's like saying a group funded by the NED has no affiliation with the USA...
I mean no? It's because you refused to endorse their political manifesto
So they can't march by foot and need a float for safety concerns, but last year they had a float and it was unsafe anyway?
Also Keshet released videos of the crowd (made up largely of ARCI members) shouting 'murderers' at them, but no videos of Nazi salutes were released despite Keshet claiming they had them. No Italian press reported on the salutes, only international news orgs referencing Keshet's claims
Again, no it isn't. It's got nothing to do with them being Jewish
Roma Pride has always been anti-fascist, if you can't take a stand against Israeli fascism then that's a you problem, not a them problem
apneax3n0n@reddit
as an italiano : well done. it was about time.
no do Eurovision Song contezt and all the rest. any events
they should not be allowed tò join until the admit It Is a genocide
Punk_Pharaoh@reddit
Valid, can’t be all, “love is love” while killing Palestinian kids
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