More Trailers, Less Pickups?
Posted by Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 285 comments
I'm NOT one of those anti-pickup redditers that appear to infest this place.
However I do think that in one aspect they have a point. They really aren't worth it if all you need it for is the occasional hauling of a couch, landscaping supplies, etc. For that kind of stuff a trailer is a better option. Don't even have to own the trailer, it's $15 to rent a little U-Haul trailer for a day.
My sedan with a little trailer has a higher cargo capacity than the bed of an F150, and is much easier to load/unload because the trailer is much lower and many tilt or have ramps.
That said, of course you do you, unlike many here I'm not going to begrudge anyone for just wanting a pickup. My gripe though is that because we in North America have apparently given up on towing with anything but a pickup. The tow ratings for modern vehicles that aren't pickups absolutely suck. I want the market to cater to people like myself that tow with sedans. For that to happen more people need to do it and demand it as a feature.
Thanks for reading my rant, you may rant back now.
cpugeek14@reddit
As someone who recently bought a Ford Maverick, I would like to repeat what many people have said — it is the pickup truck that 90% of truck owners should buy but don’t.
cpugeek14@reddit
Also, in the (very) rare case that is isn’t enough, it can easily hook up a rental trailer like you said in the OP.
Longjumping_Cow_5856@reddit
This is exactly where I cant stand this argument!
I have a big truck and almost everyone I work with does too and we need and prefer a big truck!
Claiming that we are wrong and that a tiny truck with a 4’ bed is all most people need is just ill informed and mean.
Obviously there are those who dont need big capacity but there are a bunch if us that do too and the facts are no more valid or clear from your opinion just because you resent big trucks and what you think they imply.
jnyc777@reddit
proscreations1993@reddit
Ya the maverick is a car with a baby bed. Wouldn't work for anything. If a maverick works for you then so would an suv or a hatchback probably. Its not a real truck and it cant tow worth a damn.
nathanb131@reddit
Agreed. I don't understand the appeal of that tiny bed. If the draw is having a little place to haul dirty things.... I can put a tarp in my minivan and haul A LOT more things.
I feel like the Ridgeline is as small of a pickup capacity that you can get while still counting as truly useful.
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
Doesn’t the maverick have a 4k tow option? It’s obviously not intended for a work truck but that’s extreme in the other direction to say it “won’t work for anything”.
Mountain-Elk8133@reddit
4k isnt anything.
Sure it can tow 4k but towing that much and towing close to its max is not safe
Ok_Huckleberry1027@reddit
I haven't driven a Maverick, but I cant imagine towing 4k with one is very enjoyable.
e-hud@reddit
I've not driven a maverick either but I will pull ~4k with my 2012 Ford escape. To me 4k really isn't that heavy but I come from a background in commercial construction and am used to towing at least 16k with an f250.
That all being said I also think most people would be served just fine by a maverick or even a mini van. Heck I bet I've hauled more weight in my Nissan leaf than the average pickup truck owner has in their full size truck.
Ok_Huckleberry1027@reddit
Yeah my other ride is a 3500 dodge lol, and a kenworth.
Im a forestry contractor so all of my towing involves woods roads and I live in a mountainous area which makes a difference too. I just know how my 04 chevy 1500 handles my regular winter trailer (tracked side by side on a light car hauler) and dont think I would want any less of a truck to pull it around.
TrueKing9458@reddit
4k trailer with nothing else in the truck
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
You think 4k is a lot?
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
I am saying it is enough for people that just want to pull a trailer for a dump run or basic stuff. I’m not trying to say that’s enough for everyone but it is by definition not “nothing” like the other guy said
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Sure, but a lot of smaller vehicles can tow 4k.
cpugeek14@reddit
I know that many mid-size SUVs can tow that much, but they’re about the same size (or larger) than a Maverick. What smaller vehicles are you talking about?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Well to be fair it depends on what we consider bigger/smaller and who's tow rating we use.
If we use curb weight and manufacture's US ratings, then yeah.
My sedan has a US rating of 1000lbs, but a European tow rating of 4400lbs. However it's also heavier than a Maverick.
I honestly didn't realize until I just now looked how light the Maverick is.
I'll say that it should be pretty standard for a vehicle to be able to tow it's curb weight.
Dedward5@reddit
As a Brit, US tow ratings are crazy, massively over specced and yes we have hills here too and yes we need trailers over a certain weight to have brakes.
e-hud@reddit
Yeah the USA really neuters the tow rating on a lot of vehicles. Many vehicles over here don't even get any official rating when in Europe they can tow at least 2500 pounds...
Whiskeypants17@reddit
Its because Europe requires trailer brakes.
Few-Education-5613@reddit
That’s an 18ft boat or a 24ft camper, yeah that’s a lot for a small vehicle like that.
AbruptMango@reddit
If you need trailer brakes, it's significant.
Sawfish1212@reddit
It's more than almost any Sedan can tow
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
New sedans, not older ones.
Immediate-Smoke-9152@reddit
That baby bed allows for oversized items to stick out of the bed. Not something a SUV or hatchback can handle very well.
e-hud@reddit
I've moved plenty of 15 foot or longer stuff with my old Impreza and even with my Nissan leaf... The maverick really needs a headache or lumber rack to be of much use.
BairyHalsack@reddit
I have nothing against normal trucks. If you need it for work or live rural, sure.
The average person doesn't need that truck. I didn't say I hated big trucks, nor did I say no one should drive them. You conjured that up yourself via projection.
Substantial-Ad-8575@reddit
I own HD GMC pickup. Used for heavy towing. Not a daily driver, use when needed.
kstorm88@reddit
Me too, I've got a Duramax for pulling my equipment or need to haul stuff but daily drive an ev.
Longjumping_Cow_5856@reddit
No your statement about what the average person needs is really what incited me!
Powerful-Disaster-32@reddit
It is from a self righteous keyboard warrior who wouldn't dare to say the same thing public.
BairyHalsack@reddit
You're not the average person. Congratulations.
Longjumping_Cow_5856@reddit
Not my point at all of course.
Dorjan420@reddit
Honestly I couldn't care less. If you need it so be it but im sure you see the pavement princesses out there doing very little with the truck and driving it poorly. For me a small truck would work 95% of the time and a rental truck or a trailer would be fine for the rest. And I wouldn't want to be forced to make another decision any more then you would. Its nice to have options.
BGKY_Sparky@reddit
Congrats, you’re in the 10%. The original comment’s point still stands.
EggNogEpilog@reddit
Keep in mind a maverick only has a tow capacity of 2k lbs. And that weight is including the weight of the trailer you're towing. That rules out almost all boats, SXSs, RVs, car trailers, large brush trailers, hell even a riding mower with the trailer is pushing the weight limit. Basically you're limited to an ATV/motorcycle trailer or a single jetski in terms of tow capacity.
On top of that, you have to reduce the bed capacity weight to utilize the tow capacity. It's a small unibody crossover frame that happens to have a bed. It still only has a small rear diff, independent rear suspension, relatively small brakes, and a weak transmission
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
What are you talking about? I have a 5x8 utility trailer. Empty it weighs 365lbs. My Cub Cadet riding mower is 500lbs. That leaves 1,1135lbs to get to 2,000lbs. Subcombact tractors are about 1,600lbs. A small Aluminum boat, motor and trailer are about 1,500lbs total. Small two seater SXS are around 1,500lbs. Snowmobiles are 500 to 700lbs or so.
There is plenty you can tow with a 2,000lb weight limit. I do it all the time.
Can you tow a ‘24 foot trailer or pontoon boat? Fuck no. But saying you can’t even tow a riding mower is just false.
TheOriginalTL@reddit
Maverick can tow up to 4000. No one is buying this to tow trailers all day and it’s not marketed as such. “It can’t tow a 10,000lbs trailer” is the stupidest argument ever… obviously it can’t.
Basic-Guy-59901@reddit
I’ll sell my dually and get a Maverick to pull my 22’ equipment trailer with a 15,000lb tractor on it.
MentalTelephone5080@reddit
I got made fun of when I said I wanted a maverick because it's not a real truck. The biggest "real truck" thing I do is tow a 2600 lb boat to a near by ramp for a fishing trip. Nearly any compact suv can do that job.
Mountain-Elk8133@reddit
Only if it came with a single cab long bed body on frame set up.
Aggressive_Deal8335@reddit
I’m not a truck person whatsoever but the maverick actually seems like the opposite to me. It’s the truck nobody needs lol. A minivan would work just as well and keep your shit dry kill
cpugeek14@reddit
My dad has a minivan and his rear suspension got damaged because he was hauling too much with it and putting too much weight on the back wheels. Trucks are designed to carry loads in the back so they don’t have this kind of problem.
Youcants1tw1thus@reddit
Mavericks are incredible. I wish I actually could get away with one but I actually tow or haul heavy at least 3 days a week, my F150 is actually too small. I am so jealous of the Maverick owners though, it has so much room but is still a small vehicle with good mileage, and with a few bolt on mods you can dust a dodge hellcat. More people need to get into one.
MortadellaKing@reddit
I have a first gen nissan frontier which is probably even smaller than the maverick due to modern car bloat, only drive it as a second vehicle for towing or moving shit. These small trucks work harder over their lifetime than most fullsizes do lol.
JipJopJones@reddit
We just ordered one for my wife. Very excited to pick it up.
Millennial_Falcon_85@reddit
Except for the hauling of people part. If you have a family of 4 or 5 than a full size crew cab is the only way to go.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Downside is it's fwd, can't tow, can't off-road, has a tiny bed, it's a truck for SUV people
Immediate-Smoke-9152@reddit
And with some upgrades it’s AWD with a 4k towing capacity
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Which is nothing still, it's gonna be miserable towing more than a jet ski with one, you need a real truck to tow.
No-Sheepherder5092@reddit
Yes, that and the Honda Ridgeline are the pickups that most of American pickup drivers should have.
gojo96@reddit
When ever I stop towing a camper, I’d get a ridgeline
BairyHalsack@reddit
It's what the Ranger was 20 years ago, same deal. The average person doesn't need a truck
No_Minimum_6640@reddit
People need to stop saying this. The Maverick is not a modern Ranger. There is no current production of what the Ranger was 20 years ago. The Maverick has a unibody design that lacks the hauling and towing capacity of the old schools Rangers. The Ranger had a V6 option with a 6000lb towing capacity.
The Maverick is a modern El Camino.
BairyHalsack@reddit
It's the closest we have. It's Ford, small, and vaguely truck shaped. People didn't buy rangers for the towing capacity, they bought them to throw random tools and trash in the back while they tell themselves a truck was a good choice.
The Maverick is the exact same.
No_Minimum_6640@reddit
The new Ford Ranger is the closest thing we have. The Maverick is a unibody. It’s a completely different class that shares more in common with SUVs than pickups. The unibody lacks the durability of the body-on-frame of the Ranger.
TheOriginalTL@reddit
Who cares? It’s a small truck that is affordable and capable enough for most people. No one cares that it’s unibody, it’s not a super duty truck. It accomplishes the same role as the old ranger for MANY people. Frankly, no one gives a shit that it’s unibody, had less towing capacity, etc. No one is saying it’s exactly the same, just that it fits the same role.
specialneedsdickdoc@reddit
That's simply untrue. You're spreading misinformation.
TheOriginalTL@reddit
The people who are the target customer for it do not care. Obviously, the people that are shopping for f350’s are not going to consider a maverick
specialneedsdickdoc@reddit
Do you think there is "no one" that isn't "the target customer for" a Ford Maverick?
No_Minimum_6640@reddit
Ever heard of a Tacoma? That has more in common with the old Rangers than the Maverick.
TheOriginalTL@reddit
No one ever said otherwise…
specialneedsdickdoc@reddit
It's not even that. El Caminos were body-on-frame, built more like a truck than a Maverick.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Hey, that's a mean thing to say about the El Camino.
No_Minimum_6640@reddit
You’re right at least the El Camino came in a V8. The unibody was the limiting factor though.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
The El Camino was always built on a frame. They really aren't much different than a C-10 pickup. Same drivetrain, same front suspension, and same rear axle. Mostly it's that the frame isn't as strong and the springs are lighter.
No_Minimum_6640@reddit
You’re right. Idk why I thought it was unibody
Budget-Razzmatazz-54@reddit
Average person also isn't buying a truck.
Ranger and maverick are limited as to what they can do. They're great vehicles for a lot of people but don't do much more than a decent SUV, honestly
WeinerBarf420@reddit
Ranger had a proper bed though
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
And proper rear axle.
specialneedsdickdoc@reddit
It's close, but a 2006 Ranger was still a body-on-frame truck that could be configured to tow and haul more than a Maverick. Mavricks are nice little vehicles, but simply can't perform certain tasks as well as a real truck.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
My 1983 Ranger was just what I needed - a 7' bed, standard cab with a bench seat. Now the current Ranger is the size of an 80s F150, but it's only got a 5.5' bed because they build it as essentially a family car with an open trunk. I just want to haul light but long things without needing to find two pull-through parking spaces to park my car and trailer.
stchman@reddit
Same with the Ridgeline.
HipGnosis59@reddit
There it is. The El Camino/Ranchero was a car-leaning hybrid. The Maverick is the vice versa. My Tacoma is full of tools and materials so it trucks, but I really like those Mavericks. Added bennie, Consumer Reports really likes them.
Fitcumcouple@reddit
My truck bed is used 5 days a week to haul kids equipment. I checked the Maverick bed dimensions and it would take all of it to fit my wagon. Also, I wouldn’t comfortably fit in the drivers seat, and I wouldn’t be able to fit in the drivers seat at all with a car seat behind me. I’m sub 10% body fat, so it’s not an overweight issue. Small vehicles aren’t for everyone. 90% is a big number to be throwing around without thought.
FISH_ON_for_life@reddit
I guess I wouldn’t venture to be nearly as wise and obviously smart as you to be able to determine what vehicle all those folks you’ve never met should drive….
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Have to disagree, the Maverick is an abomination, it's a Ford Ridgeline. It's not a truck, it's a crossover with the back cut off. It's FWD based, and the load and tow ratings suck.
The old pre-2011 Ranger was a far far better vehicle than the Ford Ridgeline.
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
Damn so aggressive after saying most people don’t need a truck!
It’s basically a crossover with a bed like you said, for some that is more desirable. Why so hostile haha
Longjumping_Cow_5856@reddit
So real trucks are body on full frame vehicles but Maverik and most SUVs these days are just Unibody cars with truck-like bodies and Think this is the real argument between them here.
Old Rangers were body on frame trucks too as were all real trucks then and now.
Clearly there are markets for both designs and just as clearly there are still needs for both too for similar as well as different kinds of work.
4K towing is pretty impressive for unibody trucks but thats a lot lighter towing ability than most real trucks and thats fine depending on what you might need.
Its just too easily offered that most need or would be fine with one or the other.
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
The maverick (and ridgeline) are trucks for people that don’t need a truck. They are going to get better fuel efficiency due to design and engine and be cheaper than an equivalent body on frame full size pickup. Agreed there is a market for both, I was just surprised at the hostility calling it an abomination when it’s been a successful model
Longjumping_Cow_5856@reddit
I dont disagree with that really its the notion that there are those who need or dont need trucks can be measured by what we perceive more than just leaving people to chose what they want without judgement for it.
Aside from EV drivers at least!
That was sarcasm.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
A pickup can be unibody, Ford made unibody F100s in the 60s, the Jeep Comanche was kind of unibody, many utes are unibody. And of course many SUVs can tow well. What they all have in common though is a stout rear axle.
Longjumping_Cow_5856@reddit
OK I might have oversimplified it a little but I think in general you already understood what I said while my point was to those who would not know.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Because the existence of the Maverick is a symptom not a solution. It only exist because better options have been removed. It's like a convict turning gay because there's no women.
cpugeek14@reddit
You’re not really helping your case with weird comments like this.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Ohhh no, did I trigger you?
cpugeek14@reddit
I feel more like you’re the one who was triggered
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
"feel" lol.
cpugeek14@reddit
You really have to have the last word, eh?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
word
Waste-Limit1644@reddit
Alright man I’m gonna leave you to it and just agree to disagree, whipping out weird analogies like that isn’t my thing. Take care!
HYYYPPPERRR@reddit
I love that Ford came out with this as this market is so underrated.
Hersbird@reddit
I don't need the truck 90% of the time, but I do the other 10%. Nobody needs a sports car ever. Most minivans I see are driving around empty with just the driver, most 5 passenger sedans, again, just the driver most of the time. People buy a vehicle that can meet all their needs, and that's a modern 1/2 ton 4x4 crew cab for most people.
Emergency-Poem-8963@reddit
Even then it's still kinda too big. God I miss my 96' Ford Stranger
SandstoneCastle@reddit
That was high on my list when I bought my last car. If Ford dealers weren't asking big dealer markup at the time I might have bought one. They were new then, and not on the used market.
A fuel-efficient family car that can haul a motorcycle in the bed (unlike a Hyundai Santa Cruz). What's not to like?
110percent_canadian@reddit
I'm astonished how much trucks are. My neighbour transfers dealer cars between dealers.
a 2026 F150 XLT crew cab goes for 78,000$ CAD Which is crazy.
nathanb131@reddit
Great post! Storage space would be most people's main barrier to having a trailer. In a sane world, most suburban houses would have a narrow attached "closet" on the side of their house for a compact trailer, stored vertically. There should be laws against HOA's outlawing that and maybe even tax breaks encouraging trailer ownership.
DooficusIdjit@reddit
To be honest, I wouldn’t pull a load in any unibody vehicle. I trust the weight ratings on a pickup, but I wouldn’t trust the tow rating on a unibody vehicle.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I don't see an issue as long as the receiver hitch is well attached.
There's a lot of janky bumper hitches on framed trucks I trust less than a good receiver on a unibody.
Clydesdale_paddler@reddit
I sold my Tacoma because it was redundant. My Prius and trailer haul everything that I need. It's mostly kayaks, but I've moved and remodeled nearly my entire house since then too. Drywall and osb work just fine on a roof rack.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Yeah, think I'm going to sell my F350.
MortadellaKing@reddit
I wish mini trucks would make a comeback. They are all bloated now.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Personally I think utes would be better.
But still, things like the S10 family where great.
Dodge should make a pickup version of the Durango.
Aggressive_Mess_6679@reddit
I personally have a had s10 pickups and cars. And a utility trailer is hands down very helpful. Even when i used it with my old s10. The nice thing people forget with a utility trailer is that you dont have the extra cost of insurance and the higher costs of maintenance of a pickup. I currently even own a subaru and a 2500 chevy. And i have hitches to install on both vehicles for my trailer.
Civil-Departure-512@reddit
As someone who went from a truck to an suv with a trailer, having to use a trailer is a pain in the ass. Especially if you need to run other errands. A truck is an all in one tool.
IDontWannaBeAPirate_@reddit
I never had a problem. Maybe you just stink at pulling a trailer.
Civil-Departure-512@reddit
Most parking lots aren’t designed for trailers. Between scraping the tow bar on entrances/exits, lanes too small for them, and limited parking.
IDontWannaBeAPirate_@reddit
Only if you're in a big city and need to use parking garages. Otherwise, this is a non problem. I've never had an issue finding parking in my moderately sized city.
Civil-Departure-512@reddit
I live in rural Tennessee. The only parking lot that’s actually set up for trailers is TSC. Ace Hardware only has one entrance that’s usable with a trailer and it’s so tight that if there’s another person there, you have to wait in the turn lane for them to be finished unless you drive a Corolla. Walmart and Kroger are a nightmare because you either take up 4 spots or risk getting blocked in on either side and take a chance of jackknifing your trailer so you don’t drive the wrong way down the lane. You can forget going anywhere else because the entrances and exits are too steep or there’s just not space to park without blocking lanes
IDontWannaBeAPirate_@reddit
Wrong, you just stink at pulling a trailer. There's no issues in those areas, I do it all the damn time and have absolutely no issue.
Budget-Razzmatazz-54@reddit
This is the answer
Trailers have their place but having a truck just makes life so much more convenient.
Especially since you need to store , tag, and maintain the trailer
Civil-Departure-512@reddit
I don’t have to tag mine thankfully but storing it and maintaining it is a pain. Renting is out of the question for me because that’s a 3hr ordeal by itself.
Wemest@reddit
I drive a basic F-150. I own a couple rental properties and use it as a truck often. Here’s the thing. I don’t care what you or anyone else drives and neither should any of you.
IDontWannaBeAPirate_@reddit
If you just want to drive a f150, that's all good. But you still don't need it just for managing a few rental properties. My Honda Accord and trailer do absolutely everything a f150 can do as far as hauling house maintenance stuff.
0HSHIFT@reddit
Can your Honda and Trailer move my skid steer or mini x? Can it tow my dump trailer?
I don’t do these things all the time, but I do them. And I use an F250 for those jobs. Just because you see a truck with an empty bed doesn’t mean you know what someone does with that vehicle all the time.
Why do you need the trailer? I see people loading lumber into a Miata. Why do you need the Honda? I see people with stacks of material on the back of their scooter in countries outside the US.
Use a pack horse or walk.
This is an endless and tiresome conversation.
People can drive what they want. You aren’t superior because you have your method and I have mine.
IDontWannaBeAPirate_@reddit
The person I replied to said they have a couple rental properties. Why would they need a skid steer or excavator? That is not normal equipment for a rental property owner to have/use.
If you use a skid steer or excavator, you clearly need a truck and are in the very small minority of people who actually need a truck.
Mr-Zappy@reddit
I have no issue with your basic F150 for work, but when what people drive can affect other people.( If it didn’t affect other people, you’d have a point.)
When someone drives a lifted pickup truck with giant rims in my kids’ preschool parking lot, it has the potential to gravely affect other people and they have a right to care. (Yes, another parent did that regularly.) When hood heights are so high that they can obscure an entire kindergarten class, other people have a right to care. For example.
SAR_89@reddit
You're taking an outlier and acting like it's the norm. Most truck owners don't drive lifted trucks with giant rims.
gingerou@reddit
While this may be true in your area it changes based on location i live in Southern indiana and work in kentucky i would say non lifted vs lifted is prolly a 70/30 split of truck owners for the two areas. But say their are roughly 20,000 trucks in the area thats 6000 that are lifted with rep brodozer wheels that are pushing the limit of the width of a surface street lane
jd780613@reddit
This^^^ same thing goes with the whole ev debate
gingerou@reddit
I mean kinda the issues with evs is more the waste it causes when the batteries go out as well as the shoddy design and wiring of the average tesla. Not to mention the rise in strain on electrical grids that then causes even larger price hikes in power bills to cover infrastructure to then help cover the power usage of the maybe 5% adoption rate ev’s have had so far. Ev’s are a cool concept but a cooler concept would be perfecting the better technology of hydrogen far less waste by product and its also one of if not the most abundant natural resource on the planet.
gingerou@reddit
I only care that you drive a ford hahaha /s. But in all reality my only issue with pickups are the dudes that jack em up into the sky and put wheel and tires on em that make the almost as wide as my semi, like we get it small penis. I wish lowered puckups would make a some back like old 90’s mini truck culture that shit was cool.
Dadskander@reddit
I started doing rental properties with a Toyota Camry, and had a trailer I could borrow for appliances on occasion. Honestly I rarely found myself wanting a truck.
Fun fact: You can apparently fit a 50 gallon gas water heater inside of a Toyota Camry.
Munky1701@reddit
No truck for the average consumer needs to be any bigger than a 2000 Chevy 1500. Most people would do just fine with an S-10.
LameBMX@reddit
247" x 78.5" for the 2000 1500
241.4" x 81.2" for the 2026 1500
243.8" x 79.9" for the 2026 f150
241.8" x 82.1" for the 2026 ram 1500
they arent really that much bigger these days. the big panels just make them appear bigger.
RvstiNiall@reddit
Height. You forgot height. You know, the only dimension that had any noticeable change over that time span. And for reference, hood height, roof height, AND bottom of bed and top of bed sides! Those measurements MATTER.
LameBMX@reddit
the ram has 6" more in height. the other two about a whopping 4"s
those measurements dont matter to attentive drivers. ya know, ensuring in front of and behind the vehicle clear.
and to be honest... my wife's brand new Hyundai sedan had far WORSE forward visibility than my f150 or expeditions. and it handled absolutely miserably at slow speeds.
RvstiNiall@reddit
Eh, I wasn't talking about safety. Thats a whole other matter. My point was that newer trucks actually are a lot bigger and you're playing it off as if they're not by mentioning the only dimensions that stayed relatively the same and neglected to mention the dimensions that DID increase. It may have been deliberate, but to be honest its probably hard to find those measurements online because they're usually ignored in the company websites, magazine reviews, etc.
So its not your fault you didn't give those different height measurements I mentioned, even as a response to me pointing out that you failed to list them.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
He's giving you factual evidence that it's not much bigger, modern trucks really aren't much bigger than old ones, the body panels are just shaped to make them appear bigger. A 5% increase in size and a few inches onto the height with bigger wheels to compensate isn't an issue, you're making this into a bigger deal than it is. For example a 2026 Silverado comes with up to 22in wheels, a 2000 Silverado 1500 maxes out at 16in from the factory, an average brand new Silverado is a 20in rim. At the bare minimum that's a 2in size difference right there for an average truck, those larger wheels make handling much more responsive.
waynofish@reddit
Yea, most 1/2 tons from the mid 90's (when the Chevy's and Fords were downsized a bit) had the old 235/75/15 tires stock which were about 28" tall. 4x4's would typically have 31/10.50/15's which were 31 " tall.
Now most come with 31 to 33" tires stock. The old guard Fords through the mid 90's were the only 1/2 tons that could fit a 33/12.50 without a lift as they always had larger wheel well openings.
LameBMX@reddit
except the ram... the other two main ones are about a whopping 5% in one of 3 dimensions. I focused on the two dimensions related to the foot print of a truck. ie how much usabe road or parking lot it takes up.
but lets just gloss over the fact they arent as long as the old trucks.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Same, my mom's Equinox is way harder to maneuver than my 2011 Suburban, I can whip that thing into any parking spot or parallel spot: yet her car is multiple feet shorter and makes you feel blind.
Munky1701@reddit
Let me put it a different way, you should be able to wax the hood of a truck without having to stand on a ladder or stepstool for an average sized man.
waynofish@reddit
I have been 5'10" for years and I needed a step to wax the hood of my 1979 Ford Bronco before I lifted it. 70's trucks had broad and wide front ends as well but were a tad bit longer then the newer ones. Drive one and your seeing that big piece of metal looming in front of you. Chevy's and Dodges of that era were even flatter. On any of them you needed a step to reach if it was a 4x4.
Oh, and BTW, what are you doing waxing a truck. Arent trucks supposeedd to be dirty and banged up with multi colored peeling paint. Your not a, a, a poser? Are you. 😉
WeissMISFIT@reddit
Real, my truck is 3” over standard and has a bull bar. There’s no world where I can effectively wax the hood of my truck without a step ladder. It’s a Toyota 90 series and it’s dirty as hell. Most of its use is done off the road anyways lol
Munky1701@reddit
I don’t drive em unless job related… have owned nothing but convertibles for nearly 30 years.
LameBMX@reddit
whats height have to do with the room a vehicle takes up? ill bank the drivers eyes are at an equally similar height. and given the gas prices, you would chose the higher profile, yet more efficient overhead cams over that old 1500's pushrod engine :)
Munky1701@reddit
You’re failing to see my point, trucks are needed yes, but they do not need to be any bigger than they were 25 to 30 years ago. The CAFE loophole is what caused the size of these mechanical assholes to explode.
LameBMX@reddit
you're failing to see my point. they are NOT significantly larger. truck height is pushing 5%
but gawd... it LOOKS bigger, so screw the numbers that dont agree with what I perceive.
IDontWannaBeAPirate_@reddit
Most people don't need a truck at all. My Honda Accord and trailer do more work than almost any personally owned truck on the road.
RevolutionSalty8360@reddit
I call my 2023 Honda Ridgeline “the perfect truck for a guy that does not need a truck”. It’s comfortable, roomy, and useful. It’s my weekend vehicle. Right now it’s loaded of with camping gear and kayaks for my kid to borrow for a few days. I happened upon it when I needed to combine my MDX and Kei Truck.
RSAEN328@reddit
The Ridgeline is the perfect suburban pick up. The hate that it gets is stupid. My neighbor has one, his second, and is always hauling and towing stuff.
TrueKing9458@reddit
How well does it push a snowplow
RSAEN328@reddit
No idea, how many suburbanites plow snow with a pickup? Mostly snow blowers and shovels, snow blades on tractors.
Budget-Razzmatazz-54@reddit
It isn't the perfect suburban truck for most. It just works for some
RevolutionSalty8360@reddit
For me it works perfectly. I use it on the weekends to run errands, haul yard stuff to the dump, & put the stuff in it I don’t want in my daily. Right now it’s packed with camping gear and kayaks, kid is taking it camping for a few days. If I wanted a real truck, and had an actual use for one, I would have bought one. I don’t go off roading, tow a trailer, or any of that. I don’t care if it gets dirty, smells or gets full of dog hair.
Budget-Razzmatazz-54@reddit
I get it dude. It works for you . No judgement
A lot of vehicles fit the needs you outlined , honestly. Including crossovers and some cars
RevolutionSalty8360@reddit
Oh absolutely, but I enjoy driving a “truck” Had a Kei Truck before this, and it was a blast. My daily is a ‘26 V60 CC and I could probably do 95% of the stuff I do with the Ridgeline, but it’s so much easier with it. For me, that’s what it’s mostly about.
broionevenknowhow@reddit
But its gey 😢
WeinerBarf420@reddit
As someone who's driven a 99 Sonoma, screw that noise, those things stink on ice.
WrapTimely@reddit
Bring back the s-10!!
SkiyeBlueFox@reddit
Exactly why I'm likely getting a maverick next, and hate manufacturers for turning the old small pickups into mid-size ones. Maverick has similar weight load to a 90s ranger.
Rn I have a spark, but since I drive a plow I want something a little nicer in the snow with AWD. Hybrid maverick has a very similar on paper mileage to my spark. Also been times I have to take a snowblower with me from the shop to where the plow is parked. No extra effort with the bed space, more than big enough for what I need. Right now boss has to bring his truck around to move the blower and that can take upwards of 40 minutes, which can be a lot on a big storm, big storms being the reason I need the blower in the first place. Doesn't fit in the spark and I am not having gas equipment inside the car.
gingerou@reddit
For sedan towing with modern cars they are gonna have to not be using cvts and low displacement engines your average sedan isnt really built for much more than groceries or car pooling. Towing with a cvt in a modern car is just asking for more issues than they will already have
WSquared0426@reddit
The overwhelming majority of cars are solo occupancy. By this logic, most should be driving around in Smart Cars...the extra seats and doors are wasted space. You could always simply rent a sedan if you need to carry more than one extra person.
"I want the market to cater to people like myself that tow with sedans."
The truck didn't kill the sedan market, crossovers did. The market has spoken and more prefer the raised seating position and near car-like ride of car-based crossovers. The days of large sedans with high tow ratings are long gone; never to return.
Choice-Newspaper3603@reddit
All you have to do is look at every truck you drive by or see and see if they have anything in the bed of the truck. 90 percent of the time they don’t and also are not towing
tez_zer55@reddit
I completely understand your rant. I know too many people with pickups that have no reason to have a truck. A couple of them have 3/4 ton trucks, because they're cool! Yes I have a pickup, an F-150, I live rural have some yard birds, a few acres & other reasons for a truck. Any go-fer job that I can, I use my Prius. I know - weird huh? LoL
snowstorm556@reddit
The problem is cars and compact suvs are CVT transmissions. You will stress it out towing a trailer. Bring back CRVs with a 4 speed auto and fuck yeah you can use that thing like a monster.
Equal-Fee770@reddit
My rant is quite simple. Crossovers are the bane of my existence, they are boring and do very well at nothing. Most of the time they are less comfortable than a larger sedan would be anyway. Bring back comfortable full-size sedans like a Ford crown Victoria or even the Chrysler 300 Dodge charger that they just discontinued in 2023 those were solid full-size sedan. Bring back competitors for the Camry and accord because those are actually not horrible sized vehicles either and are still more comfortable than say a RAV4. Hi, and people similar to me in either mentality size or both are starting to default to things like a large crossover like a Toyota Highlander or a Ford Explorer and if not, then an F150 or an expedition. Just because I like a big comfortable safe space. Just like the land yachts of yesteryear. I personally have a bias to rear wheel drive as well, but that’s not the most important part about my argument because it should benefit everybody not just me lol
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I agree, my ride is a 300. An aspect though is that crossovers could be great, they just aren't. The size of many crossovers is great for many people. What sucks about the vast majority of them is they they just made them by making a FWD car worse. If they built them on a good RWD based platform they could be great. In a way that's what the XJ Jeep Cherokee and S-10 Blazer were.
Equal-Fee770@reddit
The s-10 blazer is a truck/suv. Its body on frame. It’s like a 4Runner, not like a Cherokee. The Cherokee is a great reference though. Also! 2020 or newer explorer, and any Durango. RWD based platforms. If we could get like a ford edge, or whatever the Toyota equivalent is, in a rear wheel drive platform that would be KILLER!
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
S10 mention was about size not construction. The modern Durango while unibody is bigger than the S10.
That's basically the Porsche Macan, but yeesh dealing with the Porsche tax. Admittedly though I'm thinking about it, used ones look like a good deal.
Equal-Fee770@reddit
The s10 isn’t a crossover though that’s the only reason why I corrected it
Equal-Fee770@reddit
You couldn’t pay me to own a Porsche, the internal dimensions are not forgiving for a large man such as myself, and all the extra computer systems and stuff in my head the average Porsche falls into the same category as Bmw or Mercedes. They technically make a good motor and technically make a good transmission, but everything else seems to fail on the regular and it nickel and dimes you just because sensors go out of service.
smokingcrater@reddit
Crossovers are great for older people with limited mobility. A car is too low, hard to get into/out of, and a pickup is too high.
What demographic has free income to buy a new vehicle right now?
Equal-Fee770@reddit
40-70 year olds, roughly. It’s also part of why manual is almost dead 😫
Lorcan207@reddit
I put a hitch on my RAV4 (etrailer.com was very helpful) and have towed trailers locally and as far as Virginia (400 miles from Maine). It is relatively easy and I get much more use out of the RAV4 than a pickup truck. If I were in the trades, I might need a pickup or a van, but not for the average homeowner.
Nearby_Knowledge8014@reddit
I currently own TWO trailers, which one I use depends on the job. Right now the 5x8 is full of granite boulders.
Five of my last 6 vehicles have been full size SUVs. Which are often waaay more convenient than a trailer.
No planning ahead of time. No checking the weather forecast. Oh, you are out and see a sale on a snowblower, mulch, grill, plants, furniture etc? Hoarder family member needs a crapload of stuff taken to the dump? No need to go home for the trailer. Boom done.
KeepersDiary@reddit
I want a pick up for more than hauling little stuff, I want it for off roading, towing my car, picking up things on market place (quickly before someone else can), etc.
Advanced_Tackle_9723@reddit
Plenty of vehicles have decent tow ratings. SUVs, vans, and trucks are all similar, aside from diesels, but there's not any world where they build sedans to tow 25k lbs. My mom's SUV can tow more than my old pickup. My Vans all had great tow rating and new ones do too, maybe not all, but plenty do.
And who occasionally hauls landscaping supplies? Those dudes do that daily. Wtf are you talking about?
Ive had a few pickups and vans ove the years. Its SO handy! In no world is RENTING a trailer even close to convenient. Not everyting we do in life is planned. I probly used the bed of my truck 3-5 days a week.
Also, I used to haul HEAVY shit. Like 5 v8 engine blocks and a bunch of axles at one time. Stuff like that. I doubt you sedan han handle a trailer that weighs that much...not safe.
And...why not get a pickup. They make plenty that get great mpg. Granted those arent hauling engines to the scrapper, but still get most jobs done. Dont be scared, trucks are fun. Sedans...not fun.
Furthermore, trucks make great little camping rigs with a shell on the back. Cant beat it. Your sedan can't have a camper shell, it does not have any room for such things.
Finally, a truck can be parked on the street, whereas a trailer really can't. You have to store it if youre not renting and since intend to use it 5 days a week, buying another truck just makes sense. Towing a trailer around with a 98 Jeep Wrangler wont work for me since I have nowhere to store it and it wont fit in my parking spot.
When you have pickup truck, you use it. At least I did.
KittehKittehKat@reddit
We don’t need more people towing things they can barely drive the truck.
Red_Liner740@reddit
Ive done and have had both. You can thank North American insurance and towing limits for neutering the idea of towing with a car. Most are limited to 1500lbs class I hitch. Ford Explorer? 5000lbs. There’s only a few vehicles that I’d consider mid size and decent on gas that have 7200+ towing capacity.
Storing a trailer becomes harder even if you do have a house. Most suburbia hell type places don’t have room for even a small trailer and while renting U-Haul is nice, anytime I needed to use them it was also a logistical nightmare to find one that has one, cuz guess what, most people need a trailer at the same time, the weekends. A U-Haul trailer is built like a tank, rightfully so, which then leaves 700+ pounds maximum to actually tow your stuff with your car.
galactica_pegasus@reddit
Once upon a time I traded my truck in for a SUV and thought I’d just use a trailer. Now I’m back to having a truck.
You’re both right and wrong.
The trailer can be made to work. But it’s a much bigger hassle. I own a trailer, so in a way it’s easier for me but it’s still a hassle. I need to know that I’m going to need it so I can bring it, then while I have it attached I’m limited on where I can go and park. Simple things like getting lunch while hauling or on my way to do work become much more complicated. With a truck most of the time I can do whatever I need to do. I can stop for food on my way to hauling something. If I buy something big on a whim the truck is already there and I don’t need to go get the trailer. And if it’s too big for the bed and I do need a trailer then it’s no worse and can even be better because bed+trailer is even more space.
Trailer certainly has benefits. More space. Lower load height. But it also has downsides. There is no one-size solution.
loweexclamationpoint@reddit
I have owned 2 pickups. When the 2nd one died, I switched to a minivan. Now on my 2nd mv and not going back to trucks. The only thing I miss is hauling bulk landscape materials, but these days I am buying 10 to 20 yards at a time so a pickup wouldn't help anyway.
I've towed a rental trailer with 52" zero turn using the minivan.
trueppp@reddit
What sedan? Most have a max 1500lbs tow capacity, or none at all.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Chrysler 300, in the US it's rated for 1000lbs, in the rest of the world it's rated for 4400.
trueppp@reddit
So rated for 1000lbs...
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I guess, but it tows 4k fine.
Smokey_tha_bear9000@reddit
For me, every truck I have ever owned has had a fiberglass topper. I collect chainsaws, do some tree work on the side, etc. I’ve tried to put chainsaws in my wife’s forester or a focus I used to have and all it does is make everything smell like gas.
For me, a lockable truck bed is the best solution for my needs, in a way a trailer never really could be.
SheeshNPing@reddit
You what? Pics please, the Internet needs to know what a chainsaw collection looks like!
Smokey_tha_bear9000@reddit
I don’t have a good pic of the collection but here’s a few saws I’ve either acquired or bought fixed up and flipped in the last couple years
https://imgur.com/a/sWIPp5C
eljefe38theboss@reddit
That 372 😍
Whiskeypants17@reddit
As gas costs climb more people will tow with sedans and evs, and more people will realize its fine. Trucks are great, but getting better than 11mpg is also great. This is also america you can have a truck and 5 cars if you want.
LoudBrick609@reddit
People figured out the trick, so no.
The old trick was that the Ford Expedition (EL as well, plus the Lincolns), Chevy Tahoe/Suburban (plus the GMC equivalent, and some of the Caddy's) Nissan Armada, Dodge Durango, Toyota Sequoia, Jeep Grand Cherokee, older Body on frame Ford Explorer/Chevy Trailblazer, etc were/are effectively trucks.
You'd get body on frame designs, you got real 4wd (and 4wd low in most cases), you got in many cases the truck engines, towing capacities of 5,000-10,000 pounds. The smaller ones competed well with the Dakota, Rangers, Avalanche, etc though the smaller ones largely got replaced by crossovers in the early 2010s that couldn't do that job. The bigger ones continue to get produced.
The Expedition in particular used to have a MASSIVE gulf in price to the F150. It made no sense. The market has unfortunately corrected that mostly in the last year or so.
yyc_yardsale@reddit
Yeah part of what you said is why I bought the 2006 Navigator way back in 09, instead of the 2007. The 06 got a transfer case with 4-low. That thing's probably done more miles towing more weight than 99% of Navigators ever built. That thing's just an F-150 with an SUV body.
CockroachVarious2761@reddit
I'd guess you don't know much about towing, tongue weights, how towing affects the braking and handling of your sedan, etc. Beyond that, my pickup is preferred because its so versatile:
Could I drive a smaller pickup, or family SUV - sure. Would it save me money in gas - absolutely. Would it be as versatile - NOPE.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I better know something about it, I do it for a living.
I've never in my life needed to carry 5 adults. That said 3 row wagons with bench seats used to be a thing.
Where do you get the idea I'm referencing small cars? My sedan has 30" tires and weights 4500lbs, that's better in that regard than many pickups. And most pickups still have live rear axles.
I'm reminded of the luggage conversation from the movie Hit & Run, sadly I couldn't find a clip to link.
The hike thing, that I have a clip for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHvXi_HejnI
Technical_Phrase2566@reddit
To be very Frank, I work a lot with my vehicle. I find that suburbans are far more useful than a pickup truck in almost every single regard. The only thing that a pickup truck has over my suburban is if I wanted to get a load of mulch or something or I had to stand up a tall object like a refrigerator but that's about it. But for all those things I have trailers
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Exactly, I've always found heavy duty SUVs far more useful. And some of those Suburban shortcomings I'm working on now. I found myself a Ford Centurion C350(google it), and I'm thinking I'm going to add a mid-gate.
UnderTheFrozenSky@reddit
Most Americans deep down want 60s-70s American sedans but modern. They just don't know it. They want something with 4 doors, a comfortable ride that fits a lot of people, enough storage to run errands all day even if most of the time it is running under utilized, and a frame that allows it to tow things. They are fine with it feeling a little boaty so long as it has decent steering and feels like it has road presence. It's all American car owners have ever wanted and everything from the sedan to station wagon to modern truck is aiming to solve that problem.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I largely agree, and I know it.
There's really only two things those cars didn't do well.
Cargo efficiency, things like trunk pass throughs and hatch/cam-backs. The new Charger being a 4 door hatch had me really excited. It's kind of what started this rant. I got to looking at it and it's this huge heavy powerful AWD car, but the tow rating, ZERO.
Second is of course the actually useful new technology like AWD, but that's obvious. If it wasn't for tech that's too hard to add like crumple zones, air bags, and AWD I'd drive an old land yacht instead of a modern one(Chrysler 300).
Mean_Farmer4616@reddit
most people buy trucks to pull a trailer, not put stuff in the bed. You aren't pulling shit with a car. I just counted, I own 12 trailers, only one could go behind a car, but once loaded with a full load it would be too much tongue weight for a car. This take is dumb. People don't buy trucks to occasionally move a couch or some pieces of wood.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
If you're not using the bed, why not tow with an SUV? Unless you're towing 5th/gooseneck, which I assume you aren't because you didn't mention it. Then an SUV should be a better option. In particular heavy duty SUVs like the Excursion and 2500HD Suburban.
My car is AWD it rocks boat ramps.
Brainfewd@reddit
2500 SUV’s are very hard to come by, at least in my area. Even if you don’t mind buying older vehicles.
I like the pickup because I can throw my muddy mountain bikes in the back and not have to have a bike rack taking up space in my garage. Tools and stuff that would be stinky in the back of an SUV too, but not large enough to justify hooking up a trailer to move them.
That being said, what I tow you could not safely do behind anything smaller than a Tacoma, and even that is perhaps pushing it a little in some cases. Towing full size cars, which I did do with a 2005 Tacoma for a few years. I also plow my driveway with my current truck. If I didn’t have to do that, I would consider something like a diesel Cayenne or whatever.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Which is my point, they shouldn't be.
Lot's of good ways to carry bikes.
The stinky stuff yeah, a great solution to that in my opinion is a SUV with a mid-gate. But only one was ever mass produced and it was a sales flop.
Brainfewd@reddit
It’s just not worth ROI with two demographics that don’t really cross enough, unfortunately. While modern 2500’s do ride a bit better, 00/10’s ones still rode like wagons, which kinda defeated the whole purpose of an SUV.
And then the people that tow regularly/heavy enough to need a 2500, are also probably doing things where a pickup is very handy (contractors, landscape, etc).
But who knows, I see so many $100k 2500’s driving around now that have clearly never had a hitch in the receiver, so it’s all made up bullshit anyway.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I never thought of ride as a primary purpose for an SUV, most of a HD one. I've had three HD SUVs, a GMT-400 K2500HD Suburban, an Excursion, and now a Ford Centurion C350(google it). The Suburban rode the best. But the heavier duty drivetrain of the Fords was more worth it to me.
Just depends on what they're up to, I prefer the more van like cargo space. That said the ability to take the top off the Centurion opens up a lot of options.
For a time I worked at a Ford dealership, a lot of people traded in pickups without any bed or hitch scratches for new ones.
LoudBrick609@reddit
This didn't explain the massive discrepancy in price body on frame SUVs had up until about last year.
Market has seemed to mostly correct on that in the last year, which I guess means people caught on some.
But from like 2010-2024 you had the Expeditions, Tahoes, Armadas, Explorers, Grand Cherokee, Durango, etc massively underperform on the used market relative to the trucks they were mostly equivalent to.
coreyjdl@reddit
No. No.
Dr_StrangeloveGA@reddit
I'll bite.
I drive a 2022 Nissan Frontier S King Cab 4wd 6" bed (jump seats in the back, not fit for anyone but kids or really skinny people) that I bought 2 years old. The first thing I did was install a 2" OEM receiver hitch and 4/7 pin trailer light connector.
The vehicle before that was a Hyundai Sonata and the one before that was a Jeep Wrangler TJ I bought new in 1996 and kept for 21 years.
I'm early 50's (M), single, never had kids (that I know about), I like to hunt and fish.
I got used to being able to go wherever I wanted in the Jeep, within reason. By that I mean mine was completely stock but was capable of going anywhere I wanted, I am not not and never have been a hardcore offroader. Beach (air down the tires), Forest Service Roads, even just straight up driving through the woods. I had a wire rack on the back for coolers, dead deer, whatever I wanted to carry and it would pull whatever I could hook to it. For the 1/4 mile to the ramp at my uncles lakehouse, whatever boat I wanted to put in the water I could. On the highway, yeah no.
Then I bought a Sonata because, life.
I couldn't go deer hunting or really fishing because while it was a comfortable highway car, it just couldn't go the places I wanted to go. Roads and stream fords the Jeep would laugh at were just unnavigable in the Sonata. Could I throw a dead deer in the Sonata's trunk, well, sure, I guess but most of the time it couldn't get to where I wanted to be anyway. I also had a johnboat and canoe I had to borrow a friend's truck to use.
Honestly I'd be driving a jeep right now but they are crazy overpriced and not the utilitarian vehicles they once were.
So I bought a truck. I agree that the pavement princess four door family haulers with the tiny baby beds are ridiculous.
My truck fits my lifestyle and allows me do what I want when I want. I don't need to carry kids or even adult passengers. I pulled a 4000lb boat back 300 miles from the coast because I can. My truck is a truck and used for truck things. The bed was pre-scratched and I can throw whatever in the back and I simply don't care.
The argument for trailers if you don't need a truck for truck things is somewhat valid. I've been putting boats in the water for 30+ and held a Class A CDL for a few years so you might say I have some experience backing trailers and pulling them.
The biggest argument I would have against trailers, especially rental ones is that the majority of people don't have enough experience to pull one, much less try and back it into whatever position, whether it's a boat ramp or just trying to get it down their driveway to the garage.
I briefly considered installing a hitch on my Sonata but you really can't do much with it. A few light items, kayaks/canoes, maybe a tiny camper and you're restricted to paved roads.
Even just a recent trip to the dump. A Subaru forester was in front of me and the dozer guy was waving them off and shaking his head, looked at my my truck, pointed to a spot in front of the D9, we thumbs up each other and off I went.
The number of people who buy pickups that do not need them is very high. I stay away from U-Hauls of any kind because odds are the people driving/pulling them have no idea what they are doing.
I agree in principal with the OP's comment but you can't disregard that people who aren't tradies don't use their trucks as trucks.
SeminoleVictory@reddit
Get both, since the 5ft bed most pickups have now is pretty limited
oklahomawolf@reddit
Well personally I bought a truck for the utility of having a truck. Though I specifically bought one with a regular cab and an 8 foot bed and 4x4. I enjoy not having to rent a trailer when I need to haul anything. Plus doing a lot of landscaping having a full size truck means I can haul a lot of supplies and materials with out the need of a trailer. If need be I can still pull a trailer with a full bed
shortyjacobs@reddit
I don't get this. I have a pickup cuz I like having a pickup. It's useful. For the most part it's a commuter, but I also use the bed, I tow shit, and I love being able to run out on a whim and pick up something off of FB marketplace. A trailer takes up a bunch of room. I've gotta store it. I've gotta maintain it. I HAVE a trailer, and I've put hitches on all my vehicles, (seriously, I love small cars. I had a hitch on my GTI so I could tow my 21' pontoon), but a pickup is SO much more convenient for "yeah I'll swing by on my way home" type stuff.
This whining and moaning about me driving a F-150 around daily instead of a small sedan...well yeah, I can't have 10 cars purpose chosen for each task....I have one vehicle, cuz that's what I can afford, and so I get one that can do a lot of shit. 90% of the time a small hatchback will do what I need, but that 10% of the time doesn't mean I want to own a whole second vehicle. Fuck I don't even like digging out my utility trailer unless it's abso-fucking-lutely necessary.
Anyway, don't get more trailers, get more EVs. My F-150 (Lightning), gets the equivalent of like 80 mpg when commuting. And it can do big truck shit too.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Ugh, this AGAIN?
shortyjacobs@reddit
lol which part?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
"That said, of course you do you, unlike many here I'm not going to begrudge anyone for just wanting a pickup"
shortyjacobs@reddit
lol my rant was shorter than yours! You want counterpoints or not? Anyway: “tldr - less trailers, more EVs that can be big AND efficient”
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
TLDR
TranslatorBoring2419@reddit
I don't trust the transmissions. I also can't really replace them if the trans goes.
Vitriolic_III@reddit
I can't tell you how many times I've just been driving down the road and picked up random things like wrought iron table/chair sets, hardwood dining room or coffee tables or shelves. Tons of things marked free that would not fit in a car/suv. Also the firewood! Piles of firewood from city people who have had a tree fall and get cut up and left by the road for the city.
If you're 20-30 minutes from home you can't just swing back really quick and pick up or rent a trailer for a random item.
rickybobbyscrewchief@reddit
Ugh, this AGAIN? A lot of people (myself included) find the utility of a full size truck very beneficial or they wouldn't be the #1 selling models. And whey I say #1, it's by A LOT. Ford F series sold 800k last year. The best selling sedan was the Camry at 300k. Chevy trucks sold over 500k. Now some of those numbers include midsized, but you get the point. Whether the majority of those buyers need a truck's capabilities 2 times a year or 2 times a day, why is Reddit so obsessed with judging their purchase. I towed a 6000+ lb boat/trailer on 4 of the last 6 days. But anybody who saw me commute downtown to work today, by myself, in my dress shirt and slacks, could have easily had their judgy pants on. I frequently move furniture too large for most SUVs. I frequently have to hop a curb to park in a rutted up field beside an active commercial construction site. I haul boats, race cars/engines/wheels+tires, dirt bikes, camping trailer+gear, props for my kid's theater dept, and a thousand other things. And so do most other truck owners. Quit worrying about whether they could do some portion of that with a less capable vehicle.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Ugh, this AGAIN?
KeeganY_SR-UVB76@reddit
People aren’t going to go out of their way to rent a trailer unless it’s to tow cars or motorcycles (which is what I use my trailer for). There’s also the fact that cars have lower tow ratings in the US compared to Europe. In other parts of the world, towing with a sedan or wagon is much more common.
glok41@reddit
Why should anyone have to justify what they drive? It doesn’t matter if I use my truck for work, pulling my camper, boat, trailer or just because I want to drive one. If you want to look down on me because I choose to drive a 4x4 Diesel truck that’s on you. Next time you pull up next to me at a traffic light just try looking down on me, I will be the one looking down on you.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Why
jd780613@reddit
Simple answer: I have my truck bed with me at all times. If I happen to be out and my plans change, I don’t want to have to go home to get my trailer
dualiecc@reddit
Most people are handicapped by the inability to spacially aware enough for this idea
Basic-Guy-59901@reddit
When a sedan can tow my 11,000 pound travel trailer and my 22 foot long equipment trailer with a 15,000 pound tractor on it and carry a hundred extra gallons of fuel, I’ll happily buy the sedan.
McwompusCat@reddit
I'd rather have my truck than a trailer. 2005 Ram 2500 longbed diesel with a 6 speed manual. Heaviest haul was 28,760 pounds across country, multiple trips from Florida to California, just crossed 330k miles, and still gets 19mpg on a flat grade.
Just used it this past weekend to move 2 tons worth of Oklahoma flagstone to my house for our new backyard patio. A/C still blows cold, and I can take it practically anywhere in 4x4.
I own it outright, and so my only expenses on it are fuel and tags. Its just too damn useful to hock and get a trailer.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I'm not anti-truck, I have an OBS Ford 7.3 5sp, but I think I'm selling it this summer, I just don't use it much anymore. I found myself a Centurion and use it now for the stuff the car can't do.
iamnoone815@reddit
We have enough idiots pulling trailers that shouldn’t be
Willing_Sink_3623@reddit
i have a hitch on my prius, i support this rant.
Old-guy64@reddit
How many folks do you know that you trust to back a trailer?
I’ve been driving almost 50 years and I can do it, if I go REALLY slow. And if my target for the trailer is really large.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Most of the men I know regularly tow trailers.
Old-guy64@reddit
There is a huge difference in pulling a trailer, and backing one up. 😬
Smokey_tha_bear9000@reddit
I don’t have a good pic of the collection but here’s a few saws I’ve either acquired or bought fixed up and flipped in the last couple years
https://imgur.com/a/sWIPp5C
Sweet_Speech_9054@reddit
I don’t trust most people to tow a trailer. Actually I don’t trust most people to drive a car, let alone a truck. But a trailer is much more dangerous and when things do go wrong it is much worse.
Something falls off a truck and traffic is stopped for a while, maybe a couple cars are damaged. Overload a trailer and a ton or two are flying down the freeway completely out of control. Cars are dangerous enough with someone in control, so imagine a vehicle the size of a car with nothing in control.
And it’s a lot easier to overload a trailer. Sure it can be rated at 7,000lbs but that includes the weight of the trailer so it’s up to the user to do the math to figure out how much can actually be used for cargo. Then there’s the tongue weight, usually a tenth the total weight. But you don’t have anything to weigh it so you have to try and guess how much is on the 1” of steel that is the only connection to the tow vehicle. And if you don’t put enough weight on the tongue you get handling problems. Too little tongue weight and you swerve back and forth and braking too hard makes it worse so the thing everyone instinctively does will probably kill you.
And finally, there is the tow vehicle. It’s only capable of handling what the weakest part can handle. Do you know what the GCWR of your sedan is? It may not even have one. The cooling system might not be able to handle it, or the tow hitch, or the axle. Just because they make a 2” 10,000lbs receiver hitch for your vehicle doesn’t mean you can actually tow that, it just means the receiver hitch isn’t the weakest link. And when that pulls out of the sheet metal it’s mounted to the trailer becomes a projectile.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Correct it doesn't have a GCWR, has a GVWR 1000lbs above the curb weight, axle weight ratings that combined are 120lbs above the GVWR, and a tow rating of 1000US/4400 others.
Pup111290@reddit
I agree. I've owned a couple small pickups and honestly even with them I preferred towing my utility trailer for hauling just because it was so much easier to load and unload
Jamestown123456789@reddit
My body on frame 1/2 ton SUV has a towing capacity of 7,100 Lbs, my Coupe has a towing capacity of 1,500 Lbs. Both get 16 MPG.
itsjakerobb@reddit
I have a ‘99 Silverado 2500. Eight foot bed, rated to haul nearly 4,000 pounds, and tows 11,500 at the bumper; more with a fifth-wheel or gooseneck.
I also have a sixteen-foot flatbed trailer with car ramps. My neighbor has a small utility trailer — just big enough for something like a lawn tractor. We share as needed.
The truck by itself is almost always enough, and the trailer is always there as a backup, for when I am taking my car to a track day or renting a mini excavator or whatever.
I strongly prefer not pulling a trailer. Parking, maneuvering, and backing up are all simpler and easier.
The truck is not my daily.
I perceive all of the above as the ideal setup. Of course, that’s contingent on being able to afford to register and insure multiple vehicles, and having the space to park it all.
OG_Karate_Monkey@reddit
I got a 4x8 trailer for home projects that I pull with my outback.
Best $800 I’ve spent.
TheMaymar@reddit
The lack of a tow rating on so many modern cars is one of my biggest gripes - normal cars used to be able to at least modestly tow (at one point, GM advertised the tiny little Chevette could tow up to 4400lbs under some very specific conditions!), where now you're mostly limited to crossovers above a certain size.
I do make use of my crossover's 2000lb capacity, between hauling a bunch of old fence to the dump, and the occasional motorcycle towing. They're pickup tasks, but I'm grateful to not have to deal with pickup size daily (and I'm with you on not wanting to deal with the height of modern pickups).
NecessaryEmployer488@reddit
I have a trailer and pickup. We purchased them because we needed a truck. My family has 6 cars. 2 mid-size SUV, 1 Full Size SUV, 1 Sedan, 1 small hatchback, and 1 mid-size pickup. We use them all. I drive the small hatchback because of gas mileage, and will drive the pickup when needed. The kids drive the other cars. The point is each vehicle has a use. The truck is considered my truck, my wife drives it more than I do so she can help out on the Farm. For me personally, a truck is a secondary use vehicle. Since I live in a decent size city a smaller vehicle with great mileage would be my main vehicle because of gas mileage and parking.
Black_Raven_2024@reddit
The problem is car companies don’t even make sedans anymore, at least American car companies. My Wife’s small SUV pulls up to 2,000 pounds and works well with our 4’x8’ trailer.
HYYYPPPERRR@reddit
This was my strategy, except it was with my Forester. I’d rent the U-Haul when moving furniture or something large. Then I inherited my Grandfather’s Ridgeline and have my wife my Forester. I love that truck for my daily because I feel like I can take advantage of the bed area at a moment’s notice instead of lining up a trailer. I admit, I use the brunk more often than the bed, but that makes it feel like I have the best of both worlds while still pulling mid to upper 20’s on fuel.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
My favorite solution to this issue is SUVs with a mid gate. But only one I know of was ever mass produced and it sold like shit, the Envoy XUV.
pottedspiderplant@reddit
My Grandpa used to tow stuff all the time with his 1964 Ford Galaxie. Good times.
EggNogEpilog@reddit
That vehicle (like all vehicles of that age) also had a relatively heavy duty solid rear differential, parallel leaf spring suspension, drum brakes, a manual transmission, and most importantly a true ladder frame construction.
Modern cars with fwd CVT transmissions, unibody construction, independent rear suspension, undersized brakes, and small displacement high strung engines are asking for disaster or serious mechanical failure if you treat them the same way
EddieKroman@reddit
I still have my old truck because it’s a great truck, and it runs better than any vehicle I have ever owned. However, I prefer an SUV for anything else involving hauling, since I can lock stuff inside of it. I can rent a UHaul trailer for a day if I need it.
Mk1TTSt@reddit
I wish I could get a Class III hitch for my Avant, but they don't sell them in the US and European companies won't ship them here.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
That sucks, you can presumably have one made.
Mk1TTSt@reddit
Meh. I need a pickup anyway for camping, and plowing, and stuff, so I can live without a hitch on the wagon. I just wish I had the option. I had one on my C5 Allroad, and It was awesome.
Occasionallyposts@reddit
I've had a trailer for the last 8 years. I keep an old ranger to tow it and a small boat, though I used to tow them with a prius. It can haul 1500lbs, which is a decent amount of mulch or leaves. It also has a load handler on it so I take the back off and crank out the load where I want it.
It's kind of nice, I hook it on the truck and pick up mulch, then I bring it home and attach it to my lawn mower and dump it where I want around the yard. Then I back it behind my shed so I don't have to see it.
Why mess up the truck bed when you can get a $1500 trailer with barely any registration or maintenance cost.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Exactly!
AmigaBob@reddit
I live in rural Australia. All the farmers and tradies here use what would be called mid-sized pickups in Canada and the USA. Lots of people I know pull trailers with their cars if the have to haul big stuff (building supplies, rubbish, etc). There is the odd F150/Silverado/RAM around but, maybe, 20% are actually work trucks. Obviously full-size pickups aren't required to do full-sized work.
04limited@reddit
Most people can’t and won’t learn how to back up a trailer.
I had a 5x8 utility trailer and Subaru for years. Ended up getting a truck once my trailers started weighing 3k+(camper, boat, car hauler etc).
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
With todays tech they don't have to. They now put this trailer backing tech into pickups. They just need to put it in other than pickup.
04limited@reddit
There’s only a few pickups with trailer assist. I think couple of the American full size luxury SUVs come with it too.
Until trailer assist comes on crossovers people are going buy pick ups
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Which is my point.
proscreations1993@reddit
Lmao. It doesnt back it up for you... what
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
No, but it steers for you, you look in the backup camera and turn a little knob to steer the trailer and the truck turns the front wheels for you.
gregsw2000@reddit
More wagons, less pickups. Most people who need a little bit extra will do perfectly with an actual wagon. I don't mean an SUV, but an actual, unibody, wagon version, of a sedan or compact.
mtrbiknut@reddit
I just went to the rock quarry last week with the dump trailer and brought 3 1/2 tons of gravel, at 17,040 total weight with a 250,000 mile F150.
I wanna see you tow that with a Maverick.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
LOL, yeah a Ford Ridgeline isn't doing that.
That's a lot for an F150 though as well, depending on it's age.
Hawk13424@reddit
My HOA doesn’t allow trailers to be parked outside. Nearest u-haul place is 45 min away. Don’t want to drive an hour and a half every weekend to go rent a trailer.
Also, pulling a trailer through the fast food drive thru sucks. Backing them up to a store or delivery place sucks. Parking them at a hotel or college or work can be a problem. Last minute decision after work to pick something up is a problem (actually do this about once a week at a garden/feed store near work). Haven’t seen one with a locking cover.
ResponsibleBank1387@reddit
The new generation is toast. Their HOA won’t allow trailers to be parked at the house, they don’t believe grandma towed a helluva boat with her sedan, they can’t drive in reverse. The only thing they ever see backup is their exwife to the ups man.
S7alker@reddit
Common in europe
Fredbear1775@reddit
I got rid of my Sierra 1500 and bought a trailer for $600 to tow behind my Ford Transit Van. I never used anywhere close to the full tow capacity anyway, and I have ended up with far more hauling capability than I had before. Huge net win!
TrueKing9458@reddit
Go to a boat ramp and watch people trying to back up. We don't need more idiots towing trailers.
jrileyy229@reddit
You want the market to cater to 0.1%?
Which is probably the percentage of people who want to tow a trailer with a sedan
Heck, it might not be a stretch to say that 1% of people in Pittsburgh have ever even pulled a trailer.. even once... In any kind of car or truck.
But your point, yes... For most people, it makes me sense to have an accord and rent a uhaul truck or home depot truck the once or twice a year you need to move lumber or whatever. And honestly, many people Do actually do that. It can be really hard to get the home depot truck booked.. so people are in fact doing that.
And that's my take... People will just do that for $40 here and there versus spending $500 to put a hitch on their car... And then still having to pay to rent the trailer.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Did you not read what I said, I want that market to get bigger.
And really how is this any different than the save the manuals people?
jrileyy229@reddit
You weren't very specific. It sounds like you're saying you want the OEMs to improve tow ratings for modern sedans and small cars.
People aren't going to do that, so there's not him to be a demand to even register on their radar... Which was my point. The vast majority of people will live their whole life in a city like Cleveland or LA or whatever, having never towed a trailer of any type whatsoever. Which is the reason that cars don't come with receivers and it's always an aftermarket install
t-w-i-a@reddit
I don’t really have space to store a trailer and having to pick up and drop off at the rental place every time I run to Home Depot or whatever seems like a pain in the ass.
Also have plans for a camper down the road and idk that a sedan could handle it
RvstiNiall@reddit
Make American Kei trucks. Except with 1.0 - 1.2L engines instead of 667cc engines.
SparkeeMalarkee@reddit
I bought a used 5x8 utility trailer for 300 bucks about a decade ago and it’s paid for itself about 1000 times over. I pull it with many vehicles.
shootdowntactics@reddit
I was at my local U-Haul for a different rental but asked about getting a hitch and renting one of their trailers. It was an odd-ball thought for my ecoboost Mustang which is rated for 1,000 pounds towing. They said their trailers are too heavy and they’d only hitch it to something with 3,000 pounds towing or more. Most crossovers aren’t good for that, you have to have one of their bigger body on frame truck based SUV’s.
Civil-Departure-512@reddit
Most larger midsize and full size crossovers can handle that.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
I'm renting one of their 6x12 enclosed trailers this weekend and towing it behind my Chrysler 300. They have no issue with that. U-haul appears to base it all not on manufacture tow rating but on curb weight. They'll let you haul up to your curb weight. So a 3500lb Mustang can tow 3500lbs according to U-Haul rules.
Hypersuccc@reddit
Most people can’t drive a trailer to save their life and while I appreciate your sentiment, I think it’s better just to let every 40-something year old man buy his crew cab for $60,000 nowadays…
OldeWorldWays@reddit
60k would be ideal for a 6.7 turbo diesel extended cab ir crew cab but 60k isn't going to cut it.
Trailers trail - they aren't driven.
Big_Bang_Amy@reddit
People like to decide what other people need, or don't need, without knowing anything about the person. I guess so they can feel better about themselves. Why does a single person need a 4-door car if they're just driving themselves around? People just love to knock others out their choices
Sideburn_Cookie_Man@reddit
*utes
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Yeah, no clue why we don't get utes. We had some back in the day and Subaru did the Baja for a while. As far as I recall it was popular enough, but they stopped so maybe not.
I don't, I don't understand most people's stupid decisions.
Sideburn_Cookie_Man@reddit
Yeah it's a bit of a strange one. We were lucky here in Aus as we had body-on-frame 4WD utes, as well as unibody ones based on sedan platforms.
KingFisher300@reddit
I would drive significantly more if I switched to a sendan trailer combo. I use my truck bed for things that I couldn't use a sedan/suv for 2 to 4 times a week, with a sedan with a trailer I would have to get the trailer everytime I need it and it would severely limit my parking options. Also towing a trailer adds a level of inherent danger that I just don't want to deal with as a regular part of my week.
PoetExcellent3215@reddit
They need a truck for everytime they get evicted from their apartment because they have to make that payment and gas and insurance.
weregeek@reddit
The tow ratings on modern vehicles are much more sane outside of North America. Whether that's due to liability or to force people into trucks isn't clear. I've owned a number of sedans/wagons over the years that are either unrated or rated for 1000lbs in the US that have tow ratings as high as 3500lbs in other countries. It's noteworthy that those other countries require trailer brakes at much lower capacities than they do in the US.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
Yeah, in the US my sedan is rated for 1000lbs, in other markets 4400lbs.
Accomplished-witchMD@reddit
Yep I have TDI beetle rated "not recommeneded" in the US. AND same vehicle rated for 1000kg in Europe.
Tree_Weasel@reddit
My Honda Odyssey minivan with a trailer hitch has towed more than a lot of the decked out trucks on the road.
A 5’ x 8’ trailer towed behind lost vehicles is all 95% of people will ever need.
Peanutbuttersnadwich@reddit
I have a 2003 volvo xc70 if it cant fit in the car or if it is a car i tow it with a trailer and its great it does 99% of the truck things i need it to do even if i am hauling cars enough that its worth it to own one id rather have the volvo
SandstoneCastle@reddit
In my state there's a maximum 55MPH speed limit with a trailer, vs. maximum 70MPH speed limit without. That's enough reason, depending on your use.
My CUV accepts a class III hitch, and I've thought about getting a trailer. I'd use infrequently enough the lower speed limit isn't a big deal.
Avery_Thorn@reddit
What's a sedan? 😉
Seriously, yeah, the lack of tow capacity on newer cars is sad. I know and understand and agree with the reason why US vehicles have such low tow capacities compared to the same car in Europe (heavier tongue weight required in the US for stability at higher speeds, versus lighter tongue weight allowing for heavier trailers but requiring towing at slow speeds in Europe). But it is really annoying that there is such low tow capacity on newer cars and even a lot of SUVs.
It's like, a minivan with a 5K or 7K tow capacity would be quite nice, don't you think?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit (OP)
What got me on this rant was looking into the new Charger. The car is f'n huge, heavy, powerful, etc. The tow rating, ZERO, what a joke.
Eschewed_Prognostic@reddit
My F150 was free and is a spare vehicle, or else I wouldn't own a truck, and I have a racecar I tow regularly. The bed is nice for carrying larger items but it's not something I do often. My trailer fully laden is ~5000lbs which can be towed by just about anything you can put a receiver on. The amount of people that own a 3/4 ton truck just to tow a sub-10klb trailer a few times a year is ridiculous.