Brokers and sellers- are planes difficult to sell currently?
Posted by GlasairIII@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 21 comments
I have sold two airplanes in the past 5 years, one was my own and the other was for one of my instruction clients. Both were fairly easy to sell. But I've been trying to sell another client airplane for a year now, and am having a real hard time with it. It's a bit unique, it's a Glasair III and he dropped around 270k into it, including an AC system and a beautiful panel with GTN-750xi and dual Dynon 10" screens and 290 hours SMOH. It's really pretty inside and a solid build. But it's a 1990 and the paint is rough and has some damage history. Also the builder decided not to install a heater for some reason.
I've dropped the price to 205k, which in my opinion and several other III owners is a good price for one so equipped. The only other IIIs currently listed is one with a more basic panel and 1300 hours SMOH that is asking 220k, and a Reno plane for 399k, but with mods like NOx injection for pylon racing, not really something for "normal" flying.
I've got two lowball offers, 100k and 125k, which are less than most 4 cylinder Glasair I/IIs on the market, let alone a 540-powered III with a great panel. As a comparison I scored my III off-market for 95k 5 years ago with low time but with a worthless tear-out panel, and that was a steal.
So for you brokers and sellers, are you having trouble moving airplanes in this market, especially oddball ones?
AntoineEx@reddit
You should have taken the 125k offer honestly. I wouldn’t get wrapped up in market asking prices. The fact that it hasn’t sold is evidence that you’re priced too high. The experimental market is realistically cash only due to insurance and therefore financing challenges. You need a 200k cash buyer for what sounds like a less then pristine 2 seat experimental. That is an incredibly small group of individuals. You may find that one person eventually but it’s going to take a while.
GlasairIII@reddit (OP)
The owner isn't too thrilled about taking a 150k loss, even though he's paying 750/mo on hangar rent and can't even fly it due to age and medical issues.
LePA28cdb@reddit
I respectfully note that this will be like many airplanes on FB marketplac, etc. - where the plane becomes an estate sale. Plane is out of annual, hasn’t flown in years and needs deferred work. The heirs are stuck with a headache that nets them littl, if the planes isnt scrap.
Funny_Yesterday_5040@reddit
That's a shame.
AntoineEx@reddit
Then he will keep paying the hangar indefinitely. A sitting plane makes it even worse. I hope you at least have someone qualified to demo it. We’ve all made that mistake but the market doesn’t care about your feelings. I’m 60k into a 40k cub currently. I did do well flipping a lancair and a glasair. They both had great interior, avionics, and good paint though. You need the full package in the quick experimental market.
SSMDive@reddit
A glassair is a love/hate plane. You either really like them or you hate them… I hate them and would not buy one for any reason, ever. You may not agree. An example might be the Vtail Bonanza, I love them, you may hate them. I might think your reasons are unfounded, but that does not change that you think they are legitimate and it is your money.
Next the pool for 200k dollar planes is pretty large. They could end up with a bunch of different aircraft at that price point.
Next is the specific plane. It has damage history and bad paint with no heater. These are three things that will turn off someone looking for a 200k dollar plane.
So small pool of buyers, large pool of choices, issues with that particular aircraft is why it is not selling.
I know people trying to sell an object and it just does not sell. So the only logical answer is the price is too high.
Hell, I don’t want a glassair but if you offered it to me for 10 bucks I’d buy it. So somewhere between 10 dollars and 200k there is someone that will buy it.
SkinnyWheel1357@reddit
IDK. I'm just a dreamer, and always wanted a III, but a quick search on controller and Mooney Rocket 305s, Screaming Eagles, and Missiles are averaging a bit over $200K for similar performance in a certified platform with four seats.
CFloridacouple@reddit
The Glassair IIIs are very hard to sell, the insurance is high unless you have a ton of time in one.
They are unique, fast and seem to have nose gear problems. Some people cant fit in them, limiting your buyer pool. have you ever flown one? Its not for everyone. I had a 2017 2+2 sportsman (same manufacture) and selling that was tough as well. 125-150K is about what I would think its worth. you may find someone who just wants to go fast and pays more but that may take awhile.
Experimental aircraft prices are all over the place. RV's get the high dollar where older builds or unique ones sit on the market forever. The last 2 Harmon Rockets I had for sale took over a year and they were like brand new. Insurance was a killer of at least 6 purchasers. If you have the one I think it is, take the 125.
GlasairIII@reddit (OP)
If you see my username, :) I have 2000 hours in Glasairs, and also offering training for new owners. I've done about 3 dozen transition training events and there is a mix of buyers for the IIIs. I'm looking for a buyer who wants a turnkey (minus the paint) fast experimental. I know that market is limited, a lot of buyers can't afford a Cirrus so they are looking for a plane they can get cheap and upgrade themselves. (I upgraded the panel in my III for about $35,000 total and 2 months of my time. A shop would have charged 75k for the same work) That makes this one a harder sell since it already has that value baked in.
Mike__O@reddit
Everything is difficult to sell right now. Houses, cars, boats, and airplanes are all moving much slower. There are two main factors working against the sale of big items right now.
Money is tighter for a lot of people. Inflation from 2022-2023 pushed prices way beyond any increases in wages for most people. People are spending more for general necessities and smaller items and leaving less in the budget for bigger ticket items
A lot of the inventory for sale out there right now is stuff that was initially purchased during the high prices during/immediatly after Covid. People are into things for a lot of money and are trying to not take too much of a loss on those items. This is creating a disconnect between what sellers need to get to avoid getting wrecked, and what most buyers are willing to pay.
JSTootell@reddit
It's K shaped.
The people that can afford airplanes are doing great and still buying stuff.
The people who can't afford driving are eating rice.
GlasairIII@reddit (OP)
That's true. One of my potential buyers shared he makes over 550k/yr as a doctor and no wife and kids. He went and paid cash for an even more expensive plane. Guys like me who have to finance our toys, it's a lot harder.
poopybuttwo@reddit
Yes but. Those K shaped upper tiers are buying Cirrus planes less than 15 years old. I feel like it’s the same for homes, in the sense that no one really wants a fixer-upper as the cost of renovating is so expensive, and those with money aren’t seeing upside in purchasing something that isn’t new.
GlasairIII@reddit (OP)
I follow real estate and have seen that too. Houses are sitting longer, and having multiple price drops before selling.
With this airplane when I first listed it, I had a German pilot who was ready to come buy it. Had an airline ticket bought, and a Lufthansa buddy lined up to fly with him on the crossing. Then Trump announced tarriffs on imported cars. This guy owned a business that was a supplier to BMW. When that was announced, he said BMW cut his orders, anticipating selling less cars in the USA. He got all wigged out and withdrew from the deal.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
That's such a niche airplane that already very few people want. Combine that with its damage history, bad paint, weird upgrade choices, and its absolutely no surprise someone wants to spend over $200,000 for someone's oddball old experimental airplane.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
There it is, there are plenty of 220k airplanes that are not experimental and don't need work. I am thinking of a nice Bonanza for that money.
Puddleduck97@reddit
It's a buyers market at the moment. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay.
flapsnslats98@reddit
I'm not at all an expert on maintenance and repair, but damage history on an experimental from the 90's isn't going to bode well for value at all. Especially if its also in need of paint, which is a criminally expensive item for an airplane. Ultimately, the market for the airplane is what somebody is willing to pay for it, if none of these aircraft selling at \~200k, then the market clearly doesn't value it at that, irregardless of what the owner/broker believes it to be worth. Especially since y'all have been trying to sell it for a year or more at this point. This is a very niche airplane, and a very niche airplane with a questionable history and capital that needs to go into it.
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
I don't know a whole ton about the market, but I'm not shocked that a rarer, home-built aircraft with damage history and bad paint isn't flying off the shelf, no pun intended.
Infamous-Ad-140@reddit
The market is on a downward trend, boats and planes are both sitting with more and more inventory.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I have sold two airplanes in the past 5 years, one was my own and the other was for one of my instruction clients. Both were fairly easy to sell. But I've been trying to sell another client airplane for a year now, and am having a real hard time with it. It's a bit unique, it's a Glasair III and he dropped around 270k into it, including an AC system and a beautiful panel with GTN-750xi and dual Dynon 10" screens and 290 hours SMOH. It's really pretty inside and a solid build. But it's a 1990 and the paint is rough and has some damage history. Also the builder decided not to install a heater for some reason.
I've dropped the price to 205k, which in my opinion and several other III owners is a good price for one so equipped. The only other IIIs currently listed is one with a more basic panel and 1300 hours SMOH that is asking 220k, and a Reno plane for 399k, but with mods like NOx injection for pylon racing, not really something for "normal" flying.
I've got two lowball offers, 100k and 125k, which are less than most 4 cylinder Glasair I/IIs on the market, let alone a 540-powered III with a great panel. As a comparison I scored my III off-market for 95k 5 years ago with low time but with a worthless tear-out panel, and that was a steal.
So for you brokers and sellers, are you having trouble moving airplanes in this market, especially oddball ones?
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