Expats who've worked in very different work cultures: what habit was hardest to unlearn?
Posted by taube_d@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 33 comments
I have been working in Spain for almost two years, and there are habits from my American work life that I'm actively trying to delete from my body. The urge to send an email after hours and apologize for it in the morning. The instinct to schedule a thirty-minute "quick chat" instead of just walking over. The muscle memory of cc-ing four people on every reply.
None of these lands here. Spanish coworkers either don't read after-hours emails, or they read them and find the apology bizarre. Over-scheduling reads as American corporate cosplay. cc-ing too many people gets you a polite reply asking why everyone needed to be on this thread. Now I'm watching myself unlearn things I didn't even realize were American work culture. They were just "how you work" to me.
For expats who moved between very different work cultures, what was the habit that took the longest to unlearn?
Necessary_Plankton@reddit
Being very blunt and honest which i picked up in the Netherlands, it is not appreciated by the Americans or the English.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
The learn-then-unlearn cycle is so real. i went from American corporate softening ("just wanted to circle back...") to Spanish directness, which is somewhere in the middle, and now I genuinely don't know what my natural communication style is anymore. i think after enough countries, you just become this weird hybrid that confuses everyone equally.
The Dutch bluntness thing is interesting, though, because in my experience, French people think they're direct, but compared to the Dutch, it's basically poetry. A Dutch colleague once told me my presentation "didn't work" and just... moved on. No cushion. No suggestion. Just "that didn't work." I respected it, but my body needed a minute.
LizzrdVanReptile@reddit
This is quite similar to the experience of military kids who grow up overseas. I understand the feeling of being a hybrid of cultures, and ultimately being misunderstood frequently. I’m much older now (60s) and I embraced it as “me” long ago.
p3chapai@reddit
I feel that absolutely. These days I'm unsure in all of my languages and all of my environments.
erenon@reddit
“The Dutch are direct” is probably the most repeated excuse in the Netherlands. A lot of the time, it’s not honesty or directness at all — it’s just rude or disrespectful behavior dressed up as a cultural trait. Being direct is fine; using it as a shield to harass or belittle people isn’t.
ClassicYotas@reddit
Can you give an example of what an American would say vs Netherlands in a business context?
bprofaneV@reddit
I had to learn this when I landed in the Netherlands. That being friendly and empathetic is not valued.
savagebolts@reddit
I'm Swedish working in the Netherlands and first had to learn the bluntness and how to not take it personally. Then unlearn it when I started working in an international environment again lol
Louproup@reddit
Haha I'm also Swedish living in NL and it is like the ultimate clash. I've gotten used to it a long time ago but I had a lot of Swedish colleagues who really struggled with how blunt everyone is and took everything personally.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
So you went from polite → brutally honest → polite again, but now you can hear the lie in every "great idea." That's not unlearning, that's permanent damage. XD
CanidPsychopomp@reddit
Everyone on this thread writes like AI
royaldutchiee@reddit
OP is writing every AI cliche available right now
WritingParking@reddit
Or, AI writes like everyone on this thread.
verbalsuplex@reddit
Long time expat in SouthEast Asia and India. Many people in Asia have a different concept of time than in the West. Nobody is on time. Assigning older people to work for someone younger is also really hard. Even if the younger person is smarter and works harder. No one wants to tell you bad news. Took me years to get my team comfortable enough with me that they would tell me they weren’t going to hit a deadline. Title is sometimes more important than pay. I’ve given people huge raises and bonuses only for them to ask me about a title change. I’ve also had people in Thailand that don’t care about either. The job was just a job.
hater4life22@reddit
Asking someone to explain something I don’t understand. This is a big no-no in Japan.
oreo-cat-@reddit
So how do you learn what you don’t understand?
gandolfthe@reddit
Most yank work culture is terrible business as well... Every biz training in successful long term companies don't do any of that shit
SeanBourne@reddit
I think the over-scheduling is just a function of large companies - if anything there’s more of it at the mid-size to large Australian firms I’ve been at, and the US start-up I was at a few positions ago was heavily a ‘just walking over’ culture (though obviously time with seniors did need to be set-up). Ditto over cc-ing.
OTOH, I miss being able to send an email whenever I have the time to do so (never apologized for it when I started off as it was totally acceptable. Later on, when things changed a bit, I simply included something in the signature, indicating I sent emails as soon as I was able and didn’t expect a rapid response when the recipient was off work).
Instead in Australia, I have to go through the extra cosplay of setting up an acceptable send time in outlook as sending emails off-hours is treated like assault and battery here. (Again this is worse at a big organizations.)
The American work culture thing that’s very different in Aus is basically always being switched on… but in high stress positions here when you are brought over on a skills visa, the demands are pretty much still on you. After being chronically overworked for my first 3.x years here (and especially in the last year and a half leading up to PR), I had no problems dropping out of ‘SR-71 mode’.
Within two months after getting PR, I had wrapped up three mandates and went on a sabbatical.
Professional_Elk_489@reddit
You just put your emails in draft and send during working hours so you don't look like a freak. Everyone does it. Don't need to schedule anything
taube_d@reddit (OP)
The email signature thing is actually genius. "I sent this when I had time, don't feel pressured to reply" solves the problem without changing your workflow. I might steal that honestly because my compromise right now is just writing the email and scheduling it for 9 am, which feels absurd because we both know I wrote it at midnight.
The skills visa overwork thing is real, too. I think there's a period where you're so grateful to be somewhere new that you just absorb whatever the work culture throws at you without questioning it. Then one day you look up and realize you've been running on someone else's operating system for 3 years.
Professional_Elk_489@reddit
I've worked in AUS / Thailand / UK / Ireland / NL
You just adapt right?
Tone it up or down according to what the culture values
Low_Stress_9180@reddit
Not caring about stupid ideas. As corruption was involved.
Rockthejokeboat@reddit
Do you apologize because there is an assumption that american workers should read the e-mail after hours as well?
Primary-Angle4008@reddit
I started my work life in Germany, I’m very blunt and straightforward and just come to the point which is not a thing here in the UK where I’m now. It also took me a while to be really comfortable with the less formal approach at work
CaughtALiteSneez@reddit
I read after hour emails, just the next day and I’m American.
I have had to appear not too “confident” as that is what they think of Americans in Europe in my industry.
maritimer187@reddit
Canada to New Zealand. It's pretty normal in my profession to work overtime for extra money here in Canada but I learned this wasn't the norm there. Found out overtime was available on weekends so I picked up a Saturday shift my first weekend there only to realize I was the only person there.
They also had a very don't worry we'll get it tommorow approach where I was coming from you can leave today when it's done.
Supervisors would also show up late and leave early and I was coming from they're the first ones there and last to leave.
schade_marmelade@reddit
The Philippines to Austria:
In the Philippines, you also get a set number of paid sick leaves, and in some cases, they have to be approved first by your manager. Here in Austria, there are no set rules about how many sick leaves you can take as long as you can provide a doctor's note. Coming in sick, even if it's just a slight cold, is highly frowned upon since everyone is scared of becoming infected
mmoonbelly@reddit
Now in France after years in north European countries : not getting annoyed when the locals people are late.
owzleee@reddit
London to Argentina. I was used to eating lunch. At my desk and working. Here it’s almost mandatory to take the full hour and eat together.
let-it-rain-sunshine@reddit
Sounds like good habits to ditch. Keep going with the new flow.
Science_Teecha@reddit
This is a fun one: I taught in Thailand for two years. When I came home, I fought the urge to wai everyone. I found myself doing it at parent conferences. (It’s that Thai greeting with prayer hands and a head bow.) Muscle memory.
InternetFlat6045@reddit
Man the cc habit took me embarrassingly long to break here too
taube_d@reddit (OP)
How long did it take? Because I'm almost two years in, and I still catch myself adding people "just in case.", my Spanish coworkers have started just quietly removing themselves from threads, which is the most polite way anyone has ever told me to stop.