One Million New-Car Buyers Are Gone and They’re Not Coming Back Soon | WSJ
Posted by moutonbleu@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 176 comments
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Posted by moutonbleu@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 176 comments
[removed]
-GenlyAI-@reddit
I have never purchased a new car and I'm 40. Always seemed like a rich person's position. And I've always been fine with it.
csimonson@reddit
I’m in the same boat. Lowest mileage car I have ever bought was about 45k miles. I had to rebuild the front end, including spot welding in a fender apron.
Paid $9k all in with my own repairs, parts cost and the car itself.
My wife bought a $70k BMW a few years ago and recently sold it because $1k payments are dumb and you can get similar performance out of a VW with $3k in modifications and have a payment of literally half of the BMW. Personally I have never paid over $12k for any car I have owned and very rarely do I have major issues that I cant fix myself.
Gatortribe@reddit
Not placing much value on "luxury" is valid, but saying a VW (or any other economy/mainstream brand) is a tune and a downpipe away from being a luxury car is wild. I drive a BMW because I enjoy the NVH, lack of rattling, extremely comfortable seats, and more. Driving characteristics (very confidence inspiring) are also great but I drive a barge. There's nothing VW offers that comes close, not since the Phaeton.
csimonson@reddit
Who said anything about luxury? My wife just likes european cars, performance and it has to be an suv. The main affordable contenders for that in the US are BMW and Audi.
Well because of cost we downgraded from an 2023 X3 M40i to a 2024 Tiguan SEL R-Line. Within a few weeks one of the main tuning companies for OTS tunes on them will have an IS38 turbo swap tune that just needs the turbo, downpipe and intercooler. 400 whp should be attainable fairly easily for around $3k with that.
Honestly with some coilovers and the performance bump it should be faster in a straight line and corner as well or better than the x3 did. For roughly $4.5k with suspension included.
About the only annoying thing that is worse in the VW than the BMW is infotainment. It is still pretty decent however.
Manafont-@reddit
You do you, but that just isn’t a reasonable alternative for most people. Also lose a lot going from RWD based to FWD based, B58 to 2.0T, loss of warranty, etc.
csimonson@reddit
I do 90% of the work on the car myself so I am not super concerned about the warranty. Plus there is also the Magnuson-Moss act in the US that depending on what fails, can be used legally to get the cars warranty to pay out. As far as reliability and warranty work goes we have had much better luck with VAG products than BMW.
Don’t get me wrong, the B58 is a great engine. The ea888 is also a great engine however and has had many of its issues fixed by this generation.
I am not really sure what kind of performance difference you think there is for a 90% commuter car that is FWD based AWD vs a RWD based AWD however. It isn’t like we are planning on racing the thing.
Manafont-@reddit
Fair enough, ea888 is probably my favorite 4 cylinder on the market and sounds like a reasonable alternative in your situation. FWIW I always wished they did a factory Tiguan R.
Skensis@reddit
Yeah, I've sat and driven plenty of cars and there is a night and day difference in NVH and ride quality as you go up into more luxury cars. And this is honestly most prevalent for rear occupants IMO.
corn_sugar_isotope@reddit
Plenty of new cars are sold to folks that cannot afford them, don't let that shut you out /s
Known-Name@reddit
Same here (same age as well). I have a nice income, but never felt the need to buy new. Always bought used/CPO when I was younger, so I could get the car I really wanted. And now that I could afford those same cars new, I have no desire. Also I WFH so it’s not really important at all.
magshell-alpha@reddit
So you're saying you're not a car enthusiast? Or why would WFH change that?
hatchbacks@reddit
I bought a new car ONE TIME when I was 21 and let me tell you it was a stupid decision. I will probably always buy used, and there’s nothing wrong with that
RiftHunter4@reddit
I sometimes I read comments on here and wonder if people actually understand just how out of reach new vehicles have become. Its not about features or design or desirability at all. A sizable section of the market can no longer afford any new car at any current price point. They don't even think of them.
Visual-Reception-139@reddit
Actually a great comment. It baffles me that any person buy a new car. I’m fully aware there are upper class folks who to them, $70k is a drop in a bucket. But either there are WAY more people who have that kind of money, or people are living in debt. My wife and I make very good money and can’t imagine a $1,000/mo payment.
BigSweatyYeti@reddit
We just paid cash for a 26’ suburban, 4x4, diesel with nearly every option. Obviously anecdotal evidence here but that’s the norm (and maybe cheap of me since I didn’t get the Escalade or Yukon Denali) among my circle of friends.
_galaga_@reddit
How's the oil and gas industry treating you?
BigSweatyYeti@reddit
Tbh I don’t even look at the cost. I just pay the Amex off each month as usual. We’ve changed driving habits zero.
TheOtherGlikbach@reddit
Definitely not the norm. Kinda braggy actually.
BigSweatyYeti@reddit
Yeah, not intended, sorry. Just trying to show the market car makers are targeting, as the article points out.
There are many people doing very well in this economy, there’s just more doing poorly unfortunately.
The group in the middle that might have been able to buy a new car if they pushed the budget just doesn’t exist at the moment.
hertzsae@reddit
Your circle of friends is very outside of the norm which can give a very skewed perspective on things.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
I genuinely think some people think cheap cars don't exist as well. You can still get a new car in the low 20s. That's not dirt cheap but it's doable for a lot more people. But people who don't pay attention to cars seem to think everything is 50+.
CarlOnMyButt@reddit
I can't imagine buying any of those cheap cars at new prices. People obviously do but it blows my mind. Imagine getting a new Nissan Versa compared to a fully loaded Accord with a few years and 45k miles on it.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
I haven't looked in a few months, but last I checked, those were much harder to find than people think. And as I said in another comment -- it takes time to find good used cars. Many people wait until they have to buy a car in order to buy one because they are so expensive. They don't have time to wait days or weeks to find a good used car. They need one now.
It's like looking for a job when you already have one vs. when you desperately need one.
CarlOnMyButt@reddit
You can get a good condition 2004 Lexus LS430 with a bulletproof V8 for thousands less than a new Nissan Versa. There's a truly endless amount of drastically better used cars out there. But I'm also obsessed with cars and not at all the average buyer. So I'm just not going to look at it the same way.
RiftHunter4@reddit
A lot of the stuff that people need is $50k+ new: Pickup trucks, 3rd row SUV's, etc.
I always get a good laugh with my parents about this. A Toyota Highlander was $57k a year or two ago but a Corvette C8, the hot new exotic American supercar, started at $60k. But you can't pack kids into a C8.
A lot of ethusiast cars do not cost as much as people think in terms of money. It costs you more in practicality.
easyice_@reddit
Not refuting your note about getting a car in the $20k range but per KBB, the average transaction price for new cars in 2025 was $50k.
jrileyy229@reddit
That is heavily skewed by many things.
Oo__II__oO@reddit
We all want median new car price, which is not tracked (to some mild surprise).
Also the term "average new car price" is really tracked as the ATP, or "Average Transaction Price", there to remind us of dealer influence in a sales model that is almost exclusive to include them.
Lastly, the ATP includes trucks (which heavily skew the average). But even without trucks, the ATP is too damn high.
mustangfan12@reddit
I feel like that stat is heavily distorted by the amount of $100k+ or other expensive cars
_galaga_@reddit
ATP is what people bought, tho, not what was on sale. It's more of a statement on what people are spending. If people bought more LC500s that number would go up yet the Civic MSRP is still the Civic MSRP (please nobody bring up the Type R MSRP right now, thanks).
magshell-alpha@reddit
If you can't spend on your hobby as a car enthusiast, then do you spend it on things you're not passionate about?
RevvCats@reddit
When you don’t pay ADM, don’t pay sticker price, and find a car a dealer is desperate to sell for 18% under MSRP it takes awhile before the car starts to loose value.
Right now a new Toyota Corolla, Kia K4, Hyundai Elantra, Nissan Sentra, or Chevy Trax start around 23k dollars and taking a peek on autotrader there’s a lot of those car sitting new on the lot marked down to 21k dollars.
RiftHunter4@reddit
I went to a dealer a couple of tears ago and they were baffled when I turned down a $200/mo offer. I had a job and low expenses but I still wasn't in a position to safely buy a car. Even $400/mo is big money for most people these days.
BigSweatyYeti@reddit
And a decent section of the market can pay cash for a 2026 without blinking. Which is who the automakers are now targeting.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
It's happening in every industry.
Sony raised their console prices recently and a lot of people freaked out. The PS5 pro went from $750 to $900. But I wonder how many people that really cuts out from buying a console. I am sure there are some but I am also willing to bet that anyone that could (wanted) to afford a console at $750 can still do the same at $900.
BigSweatyYeti@reddit
750-900 isn’t even relevant for someone spending that cash on entertainment. If you have 750 to blow on a PS5, you have $900 as well.
xpl9511@reddit
If you think most people are paying cash on things youll be shocked at how many people rent over purchase housing.
If youre financing 750 why not finance 900? A large portion of younger people do not have "normal" plans for the future. For a lot of people, their "plan" is to just geting into making payments on a home vs renting.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Yep, exactly what I think as well. If you flip it around and ask yourself how low it needs to go to add large numbers of customers, I'm betting it is a lot lower than $750.
TheOtherGlikbach@reddit
To be fair to Sony, the price of the components in the PS5 have gone up dramatically recently. Data sent us a sucking done as many chips as they can find putting price pressure on all manufacturers of electronics.
Sylente@reddit
In 2006 the average transaction price was $28k. In 2026 it’s $49k. After you factor in inflation, this is about a 10% increase in the average price. Thats a lot but it’s not, like… THAT much if you consider how much better/more reliable the options on the used market are now than they were 20 years ago (which really disincentivizes making cheap new cars, because why compete against the used market?)
RiftHunter4@reddit
Its mostly external expenses that keep people from buying cars and that's always been the issue.
AtomWorker@reddit
The average new car sale price isn’t $50k because cheap cars don’t exist, it’s because Americans think they’re too good for less expensive cars.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Most of the people I talk to avoid cheap new cars because they blatantly aren't worth the price. They'd rather get a slightly used version of a car that was built better or just pay more to get a nicer car.
People claim they want cheap cars, but when you're looking at $300/mo for multiple years to drive a shitbox, it doesn't seem like a good value.
MDA123@reddit
Or, said another way, Americans are too rich for cheap cars.
Beneficial-Focus3702@reddit
And that’s fine with dealers tbh. They have realized they can cater to the wealthy and make enough money without even needing the rest of us.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Its not really a choice at this point. Even before COVID, a new car of any variety was ill-advised for the majority of Americans. We've reached a point now where manufacturer's probably couldn't build a car cheaply enough to actually sell it to the lower end of the market and turn a profit. Moving up is the only ootion and its why some brands like Dodge are having a hard time. They were never intended to be premium brands.
Skensis@reddit
Most car sales are used, now, ten years ago, twenty years ago.
Buying a new car has never been the default for the majority of Americans.
General_Disaray_1974@reddit
Also, there are people like me, who could "afford" it, I just refuse to pay that much. I work from home as well, so it's not a necessity because I don't put that many miles on the cars I have. I want a new car, but I don't "need" one. The prices of everything are so high now, there are things I have no choice and have to pay for a new car isn't one of them.
Oo__II__oO@reddit
It's the cost of the car, and everything around it. Insurance, registration, gas/electricity, and now, subscription services for music, data, remote access, heated seats,... (the list goes on).
We stopped paying for solid, completed end products a long time ago. Now we are getting PaaS (platform as a service).
Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836@reddit
Wonder if that's why Canada is allowing limited import of Chinese EVs with $30K models that are similar to $70K American versions?
Skensis@reddit
Pretty sure Canada Chinese EVs are set to be mostly Teslas.
Prior_Mind_4210@reddit
Yep, someone is going to go after the 30,000 market. And if the American, Asian, German automakers won't. The Chinese will dominate the market if they are let in.
They will destroy the incumbents.
LachlantehGreat@reddit
that’s capitalism baby
jrileyy229@reddit
That's what happens with rapid inflation...
Lumpy_Minimum_5522@reddit
The thing about these news articles is that they always cherry pick data. Sometimes they are pushing a narrative but most of the time it’s just standard misinformation (No malicious intent). Maybe, it’s just me but I have become so sensitive to misinformation that every headline should be taken with a grain of salt. The average reader is isn’t going to go out and read the published reports (they are hundreds of pages sometimes) these articles are based on.
localhost8100@reddit
In vancouver, cheapest new car is 27k. can't find anything in 15k to 20k range. OTD that car will be 32k and interest on top. It is hard to justify paying 30k for base model.
the_lamou@reddit
That's not remotely new, though. For the most part, the bottom half of the market was never in a position to buy new. Many still did, but they really really shouldn't have.
The only thing that's changed is how people see their situation: Before COVID, everyone regardless of how poor they were thought that they were going to turn into millionaires any second now. After COVID, everyone got pessimistic and now thinks they're basically homeless. And in a year or so it'll flip back around because it always does and everyone will go back to being one lucky break away from a millionaire again.
Nothing has changed except people's perception of their status and the economy.
Ombortron@reddit
I had to unexpectedly buy a family vehicle recently (old car had an accident). My wife and I make good money, but this was an unplanned purchase so we didn’t have much extra money saved up ahead of time, and of course the general cost of living crisis has been affecting us. Housing costs in my city have gone up 79% over the last 9 years.
So anyway… we needed a 3 row and basically couldn’t afford any. We could maybe just scrape by and get some of the cheapest base models that exist, but even then our budget would have had no safety margin. Used market was terrible, too many vehicles that basically cost the same as new. No affordable minivans at all, unless they were beaters. Eventually we found a very high mileage 2017 Highlander and bought that. We’ve had it for a month now. It looked like the main components were in good condition, fingers crossed it will last with proper maintenance!
diethyl2o@reddit
Add to that all the people who lease cars instead. These tend to be people who opt for a lease instead because they can’t afford to buy or want more than they can afford. Yes the entry ticket is cheaper on a lease, but you end up spending more on cars over time.
I’m not talking rich people who want an AMG GT to have fun with for 2 years. I’m talking working class making 80k a year who lease a new GLE.
I bought a 2018 Tiguan in 2020, 23k cash. Not having a monthly payment is true luxury. I’m very grateful.
bschmidt25@reddit
Leases aren’t even much cheaper (if any) these days. We priced out lease vs buy on a BMW lately and it was actually cheaper to finance it over 60 months than it was to lease. We’d probably start coming out ahead by year three. Automakers are still acting like it’s 2022.
crunchtime100@reddit
COVID really sped up The Great Enshitification
Does_Not_Use_Clothes@reddit
This subreddit is so bad now. The post itself is fine but op has to contextualize it by saying it’s the k shape economy. Thanks for the messaging op.
Then this guy is the top comment using Reddit contextualization speech like “enshitification” to hammer home the political messaging.
This used to be a fun subreddit to talk about cool cars and car news. Now it’s just politics loosely attached to cars. I don’t believe op or this top commenter are even real people. I miss having fun here.
moutonbleu@reddit (OP)
I’m OP and thought this was useful to this sub. If you think it’s bad info, then, well, that’s just your opinion!
w1n5t0nthe1st@reddit
Unfortunately that's just the reality we live in man. How are we supposed to have fun in cars when people can barely afford the things they need in life? How are most people supposed to be car enthusiasts when this price gouging and "race to the top" is outpacing the average redditors wages? How are the people lucky enough to have cars supposed to enjoy them when a govt randomly decides to pick a fight with a country with huge leverage on the fuel supply chain? How can people find time to enjoy the cars when it feels like you have to do so much more to keep up with bills. We can't "just have fun" anymore bruh, there's too much going on for most people
Skensis@reddit
What great inshitification?
Modern cars are safer, faster, more featured rich than ever before.
There was a time AC wasn't even standard, and now we get multi zone climate control, airbags up the wazoo, blind spot warning devices, cruise control, etc.
Modern cars have gotten better by most metric.
cosp85classic@reddit
Reliability is down almost across the board on everything from drivetrain components to electric systems for all manufacturers. Even the great Toyota, who US reputation was built on bullet proof engines, has has a significant increase in engine and transmission failures under warranty. Even when properly maintained by the dealerships.
And overall the quality of parts coming from suppliers is down. The dealerships and third party repair shops have seen tremendous increases in parts that were either out of spec, or failed at install (refered to in the industry as dead on arrival, DOA), which eats into their overhead costs.
And this is before you start talking about subscription based features for tech already installed in a vehicle. We're not talking about satellite radio or GM's OnStar. We're talking things like keyless entry and remote start from your key fob, and heated & cooled seats that have no good reason to need permission from the manufacturer to use, but is trending that way. If you aren't paying them, the features do not work. And this is not limited to BMW. Honda and Toyota are getting on this trend as well.
NonPoliticalAcct3646@reddit
Realistically COVID kicked off the biggest wealth transfer in history, the wealth gap widened substantially. I'm really glad I owned a house and some rentals beforehand because there's no way I could afford that now and they have appreciated SUBSTANTIALLY.
SpaceghostLos@reddit
This car, normally 25,000, needs a market adjustment to 40,000 to offset the high demand of this vehicle. Then, lets up the cost to build every year by 5% so we’ll continue to make money!
Note: i understand supply & demand, supply shocks, all of it. But what the auto manus and dealerships did to Americans was absolutely wrong, which is akin to scalpers.
Contralogic@reddit
Covid and 47th usa administration.
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10000Didgeridoos@reddit
Wait you mean making billions off the office is BAD?
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SMC540@reddit
I’m one of that million. My wife and I bought both of our current cars new in 2022. These will most likely be the last new cars we purchase. Between the insane inflation and the ever-increasing electronics and tracking of us that new cars are doing, we just don’t have any interest in anything newer.
bazbloom@reddit
Plus the enshitification that's infecting almost every brand, ensuring that you get less and less real value even at inflated prices.
Lumpy_Minimum_5522@reddit
Can you define enshitification for cars? They’ve always been depreciating rust buckets.
fibonacci16180@reddit
A lot of examples, but just look at BMW, Merc, Audi interiors vs. 2015-2020. All are worse.
RichardNixon345@reddit
Redditors love to throw that around the way older people throw around planned obsolescence - both are terms they vaguely grasp as meaning something bad, but they don’t actually know when they would apply, so they just say it all the time and devalue any meaning.
Skensis@reddit
Yeah, it's like a vague straw man.
I'm driving right now a 25 year old car because my newer car is in the shop. Both cars had the same MSRP when new, and honestly not much about the old car is better or nicer than the new one.
TalbotFarwell@reddit
Why is your newer car (you never specified exactly how old) in the shop? If it’s only a few years old but having major issues, that’s a big indicator of what we’re talking about; new, fresh off the lot cars being built with crappy materials and shoddy engineering, and even worse QC is becoming a more common and sadly relatable phenomenon.
Skensis@reddit
I crashed into a tire wall.
withsexyresults@reddit
Bro you can’t start calling miatas tire walls
RichardNixon345@reddit
Is “speed bump” acceptable? :D
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Back in my day, cars would phase out of reality and pass through tire walls.
Skensis@reddit
I'm going to buy a Bradley IFV next, not letting a damn wall slow me down.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
One of the most beloved bmws of all time, the e46 m3, is absolutely riddled with cheap plastic all over the interior
Car forums romanticize the past and hate change more than most fandoms
withsexyresults@reddit
It was also riddled with bigger subframe problems where the body pop welds at the rear subframe mounts. Modern bmws don’t have that issue anymore
Skensis@reddit
It was also a 50k+ car back in 2003!
Assuming you could get one for MSRP when they launched. I remember my dad looking at one at the dealership and was amused by it having a 10k dealer markup decades ago.
Still, I would love to own one.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
Yeah. BMWs pricing has actually been right in line for inflation for the past 20 years. They've always been expensive cars and always will be
I personally think every generation of bmw has positives and negatives and I would drive and own them all if I could.
smokinbbq@reddit
No buttons on the dash, having to use a touchscreen to change any controls. LCD screens are cheaper than buttons.
GMorristwn@reddit
Subscription heated seats?
Skensis@reddit
What car has this?
SMC540@reddit
BMW does this
Skensis@reddit
What model?
I own a relatively new BMW and this isn't a thing.
SMC540@reddit
I edited my comment to be a little more detailed, but here is an article on it.
timetravelerfrom2027@reddit
“Had” this. BMW was charging $18/mo to use them in certain countries until consumer backlash made them rethink the plan.
magshell-alpha@reddit
F-150 had released with climate control knobs with a little display in it to show the temp. They replaced it with a basic plastic knob the following year due to COVID shortage and never brought it back.
Impossible_Month1718@reddit
Not enough sedan options for sale, subscriptions, too many screens for basic functions, even luxury cars looking ugly (see large grilled bmws, most new Mercedes, Ferrari).
Several-Eggplant4460@reddit
Look at the interiors of the German brands. BMW, Mercedes and (to a lesser extent) Audi are replacing leather trims with plastic, tactile buttons with a giant screen, and cutting features from their non-flagship cars and replacing them with RGB lighting.
TheOtherGlikbach@reddit
What do you mean is they use lower Quality Parts and make a bigger profit because they don't cost as much.
It's not just car manufacturers that are doing it, every company is trying to do it. Look at how shit chocolate taste now compared to 10 or 15 years ago. Why is there soy in my chocolate? Why is that door panels feel like plastic scratchy and thin? Enshitification.
the_lamou@reddit
I'm always amazed at people getting hung up on "X technology is tracking me," all while carrying a tracking and surveillance device in their pockets 24/7.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Another way to look at it is we let that happen with phones -- maybe we shouldn't with cars.
But the truth is, most people decided long ago that they don't care about privacy. That war was lost a long time ago.
The being able to stop a car remotely is the thing that I think will gain enough political traction tho. It was relatively close to getting passed last year so it could still. Data collection, not so much.
SMC540@reddit
A phone gives you far more control over what information you share and with whom. Cars do not.
the_lamou@reddit
It's cute that you think that. Anyone that you should be worried about tracking you can easily get all of your mobile data. They don't even need to go to your phone: your carrier (plus every carrier that has towers near you) has a steady stream of your location data. Your browsing history is mostly completely open to your carrier, and to anyone who wants to get in the middle. Your microphone is always on and listening (it's how "Hey Google/Siri" is able to work). Your camera can be activated remotely.
But sure, it's definitely cars and stationary cameras that we should be worried about.
SMC540@reddit
I think you're misunderstanding why people are concerned specifically in relation to their vehicles, and are instead conflating multiple separate issues in an attempt to minimize the relevant ones.
The reason why people, like myself, are concerned with the data being collected and sold by our vehicles isn't just because we don't want to be tracked. It's because that data is actively being sold to insurance providers and is resulting in increased premiums.
That's simply something that I do not wish to engage with, and the potential benefits aren't really attractive to me, so I will purchase vehicles without those types of connectivity features going forward.
TalbotFarwell@reddit
So… we should be OK with our cars tracking our location and driving habits, and sharing that info with God-knows-who? I don’t get what you get out of arguing for consumers to have less privacy, unless you’re just trying to be contrarian for the sake of riling people up.
hutacars@reddit
I trust Apple a hell of a lot more than I trust GM. And I don’t trust Apple much.
kicker58@reddit
We went from from 2 cars to 1 car. Replaced a car with a cargo bike. Best decision we did. Been over 3 years with 1 car.
magshell-alpha@reddit
Sounds like you're a bike enthusiast now instead of cars. Unless your 1 car is some sports car?
kicker58@reddit
Nah it's a mini van. But yeah nice ebikes are amazing. Went from no biking 4 years ago. To mountain biking, commuting on bike, and having fun rides with the kids. It's the right tool for the area I live.
SecretPantyWorshiper@reddit
Its super cute seeing couples refer themselves as "we"
kicker58@reddit
My wife and 2 kids. So yeah we.
IamaFunGuy@reddit
Don't worry some day you'll find someone too.
awmaleg@reddit
Ehhh I kinda doubt that!
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
And if you have a solid car these days you can maintain it a lonnngggg time for way less than a new $700+ a month car payment.
I'm driving my 2015 audi s3 into the ground. It's actually really easy to work on at home and the only powertrain parts I've had to replace in 112k miles are a PCV and cam adjuster magnet. Just replaced the decade old shocks/struts with Koni special active and it drives better than ever, too.
TalbotFarwell@reddit
I will drive my 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee until the sun reaches its red giant phase and swallows the fucking Earth in about five billion years from now. lol
Ombortron@reddit
Why is this particular Audi easier to work on? I ask for future reference lol, because I like Audis but general hear that they are hard to work on and that inflated maintenance and repair costs.
Carmanmij@reddit
An S3 (or A3) is basically a fancied up version of a golf (it's the mqb platform). I can't speak to how other audis are to work on, but my GTI (also an mqb car) is pretty easy to do stuff to, and there is tons of aftermarket support.
xdrift0rx@reddit
This is the beauty of luxury cars. They get junked and discarded for cheap due to being "expensive to fix"
Which means if you can turn and wrench and follow YouTube guides you can keep your car running for yeaaaars with a great parts supply.
browsk@reddit
Just be kind to that DSG
RAMBIGHORNY@reddit
That’s the thing, modern cars just last a long time if properly maintained. Many people upgrading is a want not a need. A lot of people are still in some 1980s mindset where the things crap out after 5 years
despairenjoyer@reddit
Ditto. Bought a new car in 2022 as well but then decided to trade it in about a year ago since I got a good offer and used that cash for my house and the rest I bought a used Accord. Love that car it’s so basic and simple but still looks great and is good to drive. Will probably not buy new for the foreseeable future.
Beneficial-Focus3702@reddit
Bought a 2019 last year after coming from a 2011. It’s NUTS the amount of expensive digital tech they put in cars now.
If this one ever dies or I need a new one for some reason, I’ll probably be going back to the 90s if I can.
_JahWobble_@reddit
Much of that tech is on the safety side. And the advances in structural safety have been literally life saving as well.
Beneficial-Focus3702@reddit
Convince me that a tablet computer in my dash and center console increases safety?
Frubanoid@reddit
Same. Got a 22 EV6 with good APR (just paid it off!) and "only" 1k over msrp but used EVs are much better deals now that there are a healthy amount of options and units, even after the stupid war drove up the that market a bit.
GOD-PORING@reddit
i’m done too i bought a few years ago with low apr i’m not going to see again soon
SacagaweasUncle@reddit
We bought a new 2024 Odyssey. That'll probably be the last new car we ever buy. And its beyond the insane cost. The ever increasing complexity/ lack of reliability and repairability is mainly what's turning me off. That and the mandated tracking systems that are coming soon. When my truck finally needs to be replaced I'm looking for a 10 year old LandCruiser. I'm in my mid 40s, so hoping that will be the very last vehicle I have to buy as a daily driver.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
I highly doubt a Honda with a reliable V6 is going to give you many issues.
I was also worried about this for my Ford, but frankly everything so far in terms of maintenance and the OBDII error codes has been quite easy to work with.
NonPoliticalAcct3646@reddit
I mean we see it everywhere, affordable sporty cars keep getting cancelled meanwhile Lamborghini and Porsche can’t make enough of their halo cars.
Oo__II__oO@reddit
We can no longer afford multiple vehicles with specific focus, so automakers are bridging the gap to offer vehicles that do none of those things terribly well.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
It's why crossovers and SUVs are so popular.
I didn't buy a Forester because it got the best gas mileage or was the best offroader or the best long distance driver or the best daily driver or the best at hauling stuff around. I did it because it was good enough at all of those things (for me) in one vehicle. In a perfect world, I'd have dedicated vehicles for different purposes, but we don't live in that world.
NonPoliticalAcct3646@reddit
My EN is a great example, practical 4 door that isn't gonna set any track records but is fun to drive and feels like a little race car.
My Camaro is way too impractical to daily and my Model 3 is a great, but boring af, appliance.
420khz@reddit
Bro no one reading wsj paywalled slop
WarCrimeGaming@reddit
Well I got mine. Good luck everybody else!
Sylente@reddit
Which, inflation adjusted, is right about what they’ve always been and the base models are a little cheaper
Skensis@reddit
Plenty of RAV4s are listed at about 34k.
Hurtz123@reddit
Don't buy that shit.... What is wrong with people just don't buy it for 1/2 year and prices drops
moutonbleu@reddit (OP)
Not everyone can wait half a year for a new car. Stuff happens.
Sylente@reddit
Who is the person who absolutely must buy a new car today? I can’t even imagine a situation where that would happen. There’s lots of used cars out there. If you really need a car right now, you can probably survive with a 2019 Accord for a little while. They’re $20k (cheaper than any new car), they’re everywhere, they’re safe and have CarPlay. I don’t understand who the person is that can’t do that or some other used model if they truly need a car.
Hurtz123@reddit
But most people can ..
Southern_Wealth_3605@reddit
My transmission died on my 15 year car and costs $7k to replace. Am i supposed to wait half a year for something?
trickedx5@reddit
It’s different for everyone. My dad who never buys new cars went with a new toyota this year as a retirement gift.
Noisyrussinators@reddit
I bought a brand new Rogue for $30k, $6k off MSRP. Excellent fuel economy, plenty of space and safe. Ten years ago, that same vehicle would have been $22,800. Equivalent RAV 4 or CR-V models are $8k to $10k more and arguably not as well equipped.
Certain automakers (you know the ones) have driven up pricing standards based on perceived reliability. Car circle jerks like this subreddit perpetuate the high prices and drive consumer behavior in the wrong direction.
Despite the perception, no manufacturer is perfectly reliable. Just look at the issues with Toyota engines and transmissions across multiple models. Same with Honda and Mazda!
There are plenty of deals out there if you just drop brand loyalty.
badluser@reddit
The problem is that after you drive a BMW, you will always be comparing everything to that (this is a circle jerk). But seriously, can another manufacturer look at IDrive 7 & 8 and create something like that, but more accessible economically?
moldy912@reddit
I bought two new cars, and two used ones. One of the used ones was a beater for my wife who was learning to drive, and honestly it was not a great experience. The second used one is a supercar I wouldn’t have bought at the new price anyway. I don’t really see us buying new ever again, we needed new at the time for dependability, warranty, having the most modern tech, etc. New cars don’t really have anything newer that we want, they already cost 15-20% since the last new car we bought, they are also uglier across the board. I think the 3 year old used CPO is the way to go these days.
FlanneryODostoevsky@reddit
Good. I say we not buy new and instead try to invest in an older car.
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MusicMan7969@reddit
I’ve only purchased a few new cars in my lifetime (mid 50s male). When I’m in the market for a car, I go for a gently used, preferably a certified used vehicle. I’ve been able to find some real gems with low mileage and the original owner ate a large portion of the depreciation.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Unfortunately, getting a good used car is getting more and more difficult, for a variety of reasons.
MusicMan7969@reddit
To a certain extent and they are more expensive, however, they are still out there. I’ve purchased 2 in the last 2 years and one was a 1 year old vehicle with 1,800 miles and the other was 3 years old with 4,800 miles.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
It's not just expense that is the problem. imo, the biggest one is time.
Finding a good used car takes time. You need to be able to spend time looking, you need to be flexible enough to jump on the purchase as soon as you see it, and you need to not need the car immediately.
The poorer you are, the less likely those things are to be true. Most people who don't have money only buy a car when they have to. They don't have days or weeks to wait for a good used car to come around. They don't have the time to spend looking for the good one in the first place. And even if they find it, they can't necessarily get to it before it's bought by someone else.
Same thing for buying a house, really.
MusicMan7969@reddit
Time is definitely the enemy. I‘be had great success using Carvana for 4 purchases. Took that time crunch out of it. You still need to be ready to act if you fine a good car. I would not recommend buying a higher mileage car this way, but the ultra low mileage cars I’ve bought have all been great buys and when I was ready, they bought them back.
SlippinYimmyMcGill@reddit
Until companies start producing more cars to ease demand, and start making cars that people actually want, there will be a pretty big issue.
CautiousPhase1445@reddit
I think a lot of people are waking up to the fact that maintaining an older car is almost always less expensive than buying new (or used). And they find that their older cars are comfortable enough, with enough tech to satisfy their needs.
I drive a ‘19 Subaru that’s been very reliable. Even the cost of a new transmission is significantly less than that of a new car. It’s got all the features I want, so I’m really not incentivized at all buy something new.
browsk@reddit
Even though I could afford one, I do the math on it as someone that knows a little about cars and used just seems like a much better value when you don’t mind also having it partly as a hobby
Bonerchill@reddit
Every time I’ve considered new, I’ve bought used.
For the same price as a new medium-spec gas truck, I bought a well-specced diesel with 7,000 miles that looked entirely new.
For $10k, I can buy a Gen 3 Prius with a Gen 4 engine- and have more headroom than a new Prius. It’s an appliance; I don’t need any of the new appliance things and the 5mpg difference between a Gen 3 and a Gen 5 is $20 a month.
Given the unreliability of modern jobs (both in terms of security and in terms of quality of life) and the incredible expense of modern living, I’d rather save up and buy something older outright. I have thousands of dollars in tools and the ability to do alignments myself- there’s very little that can go wrong on a car that I can’t correct and set up.
Kurthog@reddit
I still buy new cars, but tend to keep them for 8-10 years. 2018 Buick Regal Tour-X, 2020 Ram Pickup and a 2025 Chrysler Pacifica. I’m rural, so we use two cars, but keep the third as a spare for us and the kids.
I had too many experiences with buying used cars that the dealers said had clean histories, only to find out there were signs of previous accidents upon inspection. Don’t ever trust CarFax reports, as there was one used car I was looking at, where the dealers handed me a report saying it was clean. When I was looking over the car, I found a bunch of service/repair receipts stuffed back behind the glove box that detailed three accidents, each costing over $4 grand (one was $7500!). When I took them into the sales office, they got pissed at me and asked where I found them. I just walked out…
InfinitePossibility8@reddit
Made the mistake of coming of age at a time when both housing and new cars were catered around the two income household. All the while being unlikely to ever marry. I chose the house.
PersiusAlloy@reddit
2026 will be the latest model year I buy until they repeal the law that all the AI computers passively scanning for your face for the slightest frown to prevent your from starting your car are removed.
Celcius_87@reddit
I’ve always only bought used and will continue to do so
moutonbleu@reddit (OP)
Used cars aren’t a good deal anymore …
xdr01@reddit
Too expensive, too fragile, too disposable and now 2027 cars basically have government mandated spyware as standard.
Fuck that, keeping my old manual transmission cars.
SecretPantyWorshiper@reddit
Seems like a typical fear mongering article. The automakers are still riding on all time YoY profits.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Yeah, I'm a 40's male that makes good money, so I should be their target market. The new car market has lost me as a consumer. I'm not really a fan of what's been coming into the market and the prices don't help either.
We needed a second vehicle recently and instead of buying new, I searched out a low mile older vehicle and had it shipped up from the south for 1/4th what a new car costs... Sure, I'll have to put a little time and money into going through it and refreshing it but I'd much rather sink my money into that than dump money into the new enshittified plastic and over tech laden crap coming out now.
Our other car is a 2021 Rav4 we purchased new and has been long paid off. We'll drive that until it's eaten by salt, hopefully another 15-20 years.
Jefefrey@reddit
I don’t think “over production” is coming back. The big brands have no appetite to flood the market to chase volume. In fact, that kind of behavior looks foolish when we consider the tombstoned vehicles that chased discount and volume exclusively (looking at you Nissan).
What’s next is also not clear, besides consolidation. Prices won’t come down in a meaningful way. There will be brand consolidations and alliances formed to share hybrid and electric technology, as well as more shared production. The volume of consolidation is dependent on whether China breaks into the US market or not. We have a crony capitalist auto industry at this point
SirLoinsALot03@reddit
America is quickly turning into a country where only the wealthy can live comfortably. There’s no more middle class with 2 cars, a mortgage and a little extra income for leisure. What was the middle class will struggle to get by while the wealthy consume everything.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
Lets hope that the rich people as a group is large enough to keep all the car companies alive.
4_oN_tHe_fl00r@reddit
Fleet vehicles and lease returns will keep the churn going for a while.
DookieMcDookface@reddit
If you own one, hang onto your reliable analog car/truck as long as you can.
reward72@reddit
There is also nothing exciting on the market south of $100K that I would want to spend my money on. Almost everything is a boring crossover/SUV in boring colors now.
majorbtc@reddit
I like the color.
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
I wonder how well it will work without overinflated used car prices.
Hopefully not very well so we can get closer to normal new car prices
CorrectCombination11@reddit
/u/wallstjournal please post a free link
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