Balkaners, why do you think Iranians online say Iran is not Muslim and they never have been while Bosnians, Albanians are not as obsessed with this?
Posted by Ok-Demand8957@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 31 comments
And also why Turks are more proud Muslims or at least dont dislike it even if non religious?
atakanberkbrant@reddit
Because none of the nations you mentioned have experienced decades of oppression in the name of Islam like Iranians have. We Turks experienced a much smaller version of what Iranians have gone through. In Turkey, Islam has gained a place in politics over the past 20 years and has been pushed onto people, especially the Gen Z and in just 20 years that was enough to reduce the Muslim population in Turkey from 98% to around 80%. Most irreligious people in Turkey are not as radical as those in Iran because we haven't experienced enough to require or cause that.
Also Turks, Albanians, and Bosnians traditionally have a different understanding of Islam compared to almost all Muslim majority countries. There are major differences in mindset/mentality and in how religion is practiced. Most of the time, irreligious people from the countries you mentioned can get along with a Muslim of their country without any real problems in daily life, so there is usually no need for them to radicalize.
samvarr@reddit
You’re forgetting the historical context behind why the AKP rose to power in the first place. In the post-Ottoman and especially early republican era, a huge part of the conservative/religious population in Turkey felt marginalized or outright persecuted for practicing Islam publicly. Things like the headscarf bans, restrictions on religious schools, pressure against visible religiosity in state institutions, and the military’s constant intervention in politics created a massive backlash over decades.
So reducing the rise of political Islam in Turkey to ‘Islam being pushed onto people for 20 years’ ignores that for many people, the AKP initially represented a reaction against an aggressively top down secular establishment. A lot of Turks supported them not because they wanted an Iranian style system, but because they wanted religion to have equal space in public life without being shunned.
Also, Turkey’s relationship with Islam has always been very different from Iran’s. Ottoman/Turkish Islam historically developed in a more pluralistic and state centered way, with strong Sufi and cultural influences. That’s why even today Turkish society remains far more socially mixed and less ideologically uniform than Iran despite the AKP era.
atakanberkbrant@reddit
You're mostly right but your arguments doesn’t really contradict what I said, you just added more context while I simply summarized the important part considering the question and there was nothing wrong with that. Islam being pushed onto people for 20 years is already a fact and it's not even a secret policy, AKP and Erdoğan have openly stated for years that they want to raise religious generations. I just wasn’t referring to the context of how we got to this point, because that is not really what the OP’s question was about, still thanks for the explanation.
samvarr@reddit
Yeah not really arguing against your points just think for non Turkish people it’s important context to understand the things you pointed out.
It’s not an “Islamic” issue, it’s people on both sides of the isle in Turkey going to extremes to push their own world views onto others without finding a middle ground.
Both sides of society should be able to say “Türküz, Türkçüyüz, Atatürkçüyüz, ve Muslimaniz ( if they are ) “.
MKHK32@reddit
That’s correct. Basically people turn towards views that they perceived as being oppressed. Oppression in the name of secularism breeds religious sentiment. We see that in the Arab world in failure of Arab nationalism and we see that in turkey as you mentioned.
Likewise oppression in the name of religion leads to anti-religious sentiment. We see a trend in turkey and Iran.
This phenomenon is also the reason why diasporas are overtly nationalistic. And if there is more racism in a society in which the diaspora exist, it will be more encourage to identify with its oppressed identity
Ok-Demand8957@reddit (OP)
I mean Shia islam which is in Iran can ve secjlarised because Shia islam loves art and paintings unlike Sunni Islam traditonally and Shias also tolerate non muslims far more than religious Sunnis in my opinion on average. Also Shia islam encorporatea so much Zoroastrain influences into it and not only Eid or Ramadan is celebrated but nowruz is a massive part of it. Also Iranians who are Shia dont say Allah but Khoda instead a lot of times.
Mission-Shape-4895@reddit
I think it is much lower than 80%. Almost all Kemalists are deists or atheists.
unk0wn8@reddit
I think they understand that of all the civilizations that have declined / wasted their potential due to Islam, Iran is probably the worst example. They were the OG civilization reduced to what you can see now on the streets of Iran today, crying for a stone age mentality leader.
ImamTrump@reddit
The Islamic golden age is from the Abbasid era. Which falls on now Iran.
The options are to reject or to embrace. Embrace usually works better.
whiteoba@reddit
Because the ones online writing in English are western diaspora atheists/ethnonationalists who hate the current government which eschews ethnic Persian nationalism. Turks led the greatest power in the world for centuries with Islam. Even if they’re irreligious it’s still a part of their history and culture.
Zeyrox788@reddit
Why do orthodox , Christians countries care that we are muslims or not just mind ur religion bruh
BarnaclePotential132@reddit
Your answer is very passive agressive but not surprising for you. OP compares a country with a much older muslim history to countries with a much younger muslim history. And people who follow the situation in Iran know that majority of the opposition, if they would lead the country, would convert it 180° away from anything religious. Which would be a apocalypse for muslim theologians and something which they couldnt explain.
rockswaytren@reddit
What OP is claiming is plain wrong and me writing this is proof or even if you check other reddit posts. 1. Albania is not a Muslim country in no way(infacta it's has been the first atheist country in the world).2. Religion in Albania coexist and is personal. This is the perfect situation how the religions should in all the world. As you can see to counter the point as an Iranian says (claimed by op) that Iran is not Muslim ( eventhough it's a caliphate). Me an Albanian am saying albania is not Muslim country( knowing by a fact that the country is laik and the majority of the population is irreligious).
ShkodranAsllani@reddit
If you think Christian and Catholic Albanians aren't obsession with claiming Albania as non Muslim, you gotta talk to Albanians more
alkorisno@reddit
Iran is a special case because they dont have access to internet in Iran anymore. Those you see online are migrants that ware friendly to the past dictatorship regime so they try to destebalise the country by removing its arab allies from the fight.
Same for Cubans. Most of them live in florida and ware collaborators with a brutal US puppet dictator, but got their property sized when fidel castro liberated cuba.
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
I mean, apart from this being a very broad generalization and generalizations this broad are incompatible with reality which is always much more mixed, maybe because some Iranians are fed-up with their Islamic hardline regime? If you stick around here you'll see plenty of Turks who are fed up with political Islam too.
Greece isn't autocratically religious but the Orthodox church still holds stupid amounts of power, I'm sick of it as well.
Ok-Demand8957@reddit (OP)
The double standard is the some people wamt islam tp decline but the same thing under christianity to be tolerated and thrive and christianity to decline while Islam is seen as more humane
Emirovskii@reddit
Secular and anti regime Iranians are very active on Reddit, and sometimes people assume whole Iran is like them. However, I believe most Iranians are religious or at least not non-religious. Only official source I found online which did some polls was a Dutch non profit organisation called GAMAAN, but tbh, its very hard to get the real stats because Iran is heavily controlled which limits any real studies.
tompa_zg@reddit
Iranians have been under occupation by islam for a thousand years. I hope to see them freed in my lifetime.
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
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More_Ad_5142@reddit
Are you “occupied” by Catholicism? That’s a bad take
tompa_zg@reddit
No, we're not. Because we managed to defend ourselves from islam.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
Zero nuance. Just a hate filled bigot spewing hate
tompa_zg@reddit
Indeed you are.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
lol
ChrisRedfield696969@reddit
You are just yapping at this Point
tompa_zg@reddit
Cope harder.
ChrisRedfield696969@reddit
What do you mean by „occupied“? A vast majority of iranians are muslim
tompa_zg@reddit
Sadly, yes. That's what a thousand years of occupation does to a people.
Top_Veterinarian1446@reddit
I can’t speak for other nations, but the reason Albanians are not so obsessed with religion is because our national identity does not come from religion. The only Albanians who seem more obsessed with religion are some Muslims in Kosovo and North Macedonia, because for them Islam has also become an important part of Albanian national identity. This is connected to the fact that, historically, many Orthodox Albanians outside Albania, unlike those who remained in Albania, became partially Slavicized or assimilated into other national identities.
Adorable-Bend7362@reddit
Well, there was strong Zoroastrian culture before spread of Islam, so, I guess, it's just online opposition trying to build up the identity of their own to pretend that Ayatollah regime is not native and doesn't represent the masses.
It's stupid. I mean, we had people who would join the Lutheran or Catholic church just because they didn't like Russian Orthodox Church, thinking it's too obscurantist and not progressive enough/doesn't oppose the ruling regime.