German ex-Red Army Faction militant Daniela Klette jailed for armed robberies after years on the run
Posted by Tartan_Samurai@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 63 comments
cambeiu@reddit
Real life One Battle After Another
OGLikeablefellow@reddit
For real, the raf were apparently communist and anti capitalist. They killed at least one former Nazi.
WurstofWisdom@reddit
They also killed a whole lot of other people who were not Nazis. They are/were not good people.
MarlenHamsic@reddit
Genuinely cannot find any targeted killing that's random. You can disapprove of their motives (and, without moral judgement, I do, because they didn't bring to the hoped results, so they need to change), but they weren't the Oktoberfest bombing.
This without evn considering that Klette was not active in the raf in the 70s.
RevolutionaryGain823@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
Just 1 part of the crimes section:
“On 19 May 1972, members of the RAF armed five bombs in the Springer publishing house in Hamburg. Only three of the five bombs exploded, but 36 people were injured.[55]
On 24 May 1972, two weeks after the bombing of the United States headquarters in Frankfurt, the group set off a car bomb at the IDHS (Intelligence Data Handling Service) Building at Campbell Barracks in Heidelberg. The bombing resulted in the deaths of three soldiers and the injury of five others.[56]
On 10 November 1974, the group killed Günter von Drenkmann, the president of the state court of Berlin”
MarlenHamsic@reddit
Ok so.
Injured people (not killed)
Soldiers (not random)
Von Drenkmann (not targeted, killed by mistake in a kidnapping attempt)
I'd add that Springer isn't exactly an example of anti nazi publishing house, but that's neither here nor there.
_tobias15_@reddit
Holy shit the mental gymnastics in these left wing bubbles.
YourFuture2000@reddit
There is no mental gymnastic. You just don't want to accept it.
_tobias15_@reddit
Wtf??
Agoraphobia1917@reddit
Some times you have to crack a few eggs to kill nazis and build socialism.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
Stalin would approve. As a sidenote, your proclivity to purges and other genocide is why you guys are so disliked, and are thought of as no better than nazis
Socraman@reddit
Let's make you the egg. I drew lots at random and it was you who came out. Bad luck comrade.
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
I wouldn't work in the springer house, easy.
WurstofWisdom@reddit
Accept what? You guys are just babbling incoherent nonsense.
YourFuture2000@reddit
What u/MarlenHamsic wrote.
MarlenHamsic@reddit
Thank you, I appreciate what you said, comrade. Always nice to find points in common with anarchists ♥️
Yussso@reddit
At first I was sooooooo confused reading these comments, why were people glorifying these vicious gang. But that last comment before yours is so damning, even monkey would be dumbfounded to read that. Crazy world we live in, man.
_tobias15_@reddit
Insane these people walk among us.
callmesnake13@reddit
Edgelord
Socraman@reddit
Injury for all that you know could mean losing a leg and living all your life as a cripple, it just means you didn't die. I guess it's cool if it happened to you though, you'd be so understanding.
MarlenHamsic@reddit
Right, and if you go back to the beginning of this thread, it was someone saying "they killed x and y", and me saying that their killings had a rhyme and reason that was coherent with killing former nazis and weren't random.
Also please note I did not say that I support these actions, in fact I specified the contrary. And I specified the reason.
I am not sure you're reading what I wrote, please feel free to ask for clarification and I will happily provide it.
WurstofWisdom@reddit
Did the people they killed all deserve to die? Why?
All these people achieve is alienating their cause, not to mention their stark hypocrisy.
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
Can I tell you one thing:
Not a single German citizen bad to fear the RAF in their day to day life, if you are not the head of a banking consortium.
And the RAF had a good standing in the population.
Many older people in Berlin know some organisers of counterculture that started it all. My mother said they were intelligent and cool, but she couldn't keep up with the weed intake.
Why do you think that she wasn't found, everyone was okay with her getting away.
marigip@reddit
They absolutely did not have a good standing in the population, were widely condemned, and failed to meaningfully convince the population of their political project. Lots of people were afraid. Who told you otherwise
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
By 1971, in a pool from Allensbach Institute, 40% of the respondents answered that while their actions were illegal, they were driven by legitimate political motives. About 20% approved they them, around 10% said they would harbor RAF members on the run.
Pretty good numbers for a radical group
marigip@reddit
That’s at the height of their popularity just after one of their members was killed by the police and before the first innocents got murdered by them. You cannot find me any numbers like that afterwards
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
We cannot because there were no more polls. But the second and third generation of RAF were not as smart as the first one anyways. Still, they held considerable support... For a radical group
marigip@reddit
You mean there are no polls available online. I doubt that pollsters entirely stopped asking about them afterwards. There were years of more terrorist attacks that killed bystanders and targeted killings of people that most Germans didn’t consider deserved death.
Like „for a radical group“ is a decent hedge but they were still never popular or widely supported (which is what the previous commenter was saying)
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
Polls aren't made because the have to be done, they are paid for by interest groups.
And yes that can also mean that the poll you paid for shows: many people support the RAF.
marigip@reddit
Polls in are done regularly by political institutes and media orgs, that’s not different in Germany. No shot no one wondered abt RAF support in the public after that one from 71.
many people dude I’m talking about population shares. The RAF was not popular overall
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
And they have an agenda for that poll.
No German federal government would give a shit about polls about supporting the RAF.
marigip@reddit
What are you on about. Like literally, what agenda are you alleging. Do you think the federal government is the only institution in Germany that commissions polls?
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
A political institute is not neutral, they are supported by their corresponding parties, for example Friedrich-Ebert Stiftung is connected to the SPD.
marigip@reddit
… you are mixing up parteinahe Stiftungen and other types of Stiftungen and Institute. Only the first type is directly linked to the German political parties and get funding from the Bundesregierung. The others are private or nonprofits and not directly linked to parties. Allensbach, the pollster that the other guy was citing is a private pollster that’s called an Institut as its engaged in research (polling).
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
Yes, both can do polls. And so polls can have an agenda, I don't say every poll has one.
marigip@reddit
The agenda was to gauge public opinion
Vll erklärs mal auf Deutsch weil ich komm null hinterher welche Kritik du hier woran vermitteln willst
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
Thank you, I do t have the strength to argue with these people! A nice poll you have found there!
MarlenHamsic@reddit
Interesting re weed, more radical orgs in Italy had a harder stance on any substance.
Tbf tho when I lived in Berlin I saw a very interesting use in general, there wasn't much overdoing.
MarlenHamsic@reddit
I'm not God and I'm not the one to decide whether someone "deserves" to die. I also said I was not making a moral judgement, and that their methods did not work, as demonstrated by what is Germany today. You haven't addressed my comment, which was saying, the people targeted had a motive that's in line with the raf political line: they were chosen in line with a communist and anti imperialist politics, and not indiscriminately hit.
And if you have an example that shows the contrary (someone killed on purpose) I will welcome it.
WurstofWisdom@reddit
What do you mean - the majority were “killed on purpose” - executing hostages and diplomats, shooting police officers/Customs officers etc - isn’t an accident is an t?
Trying to justify it because they were “anti-imperialist” (selectively) doesn’t make their actions understandable.
MarlenHamsic@reddit
Executing a hostage is killing on purpose. Killing a police officer during a bank robbery isn't killing on purpose.
Again, can you give me an example? I'm genuinely asking. Not even an example of what Klette did, just in general.
WurstofWisdom@reddit
here is a list of their actions. Taking hostages at the West German Embassy and then shooting them, shooting a police officer in the head when asked for ID, shooting a Dutch officer outside a bar, assassinating a prosecutor, his driver and a judicial officer, killing a bank manager, killing various managers of companies, car bombings etc.
Allying themselves with the Stasi and the Assad’s - what a lovely bunch of people!
never_ASK_again_2021@reddit
There are people in the US that support the Jan 6th people, so go figure: anything is supportable.
CharacterBite4240@reddit
Bombings (either by car or plane) are, by their very nature indiscriminate.
MarlenHamsic@reddit
I generally agree, but I can only find them in very specific places (eg us military bases) that would still make any killing aligned with their ideal and not indiscriminate.
Cannot find anything about, idk, a bomb in a marketplace or something. Closest I can find is "kaufhaus" but that was arson at night, idk why it's bombing in english?
Jazzlike-Equipment45@reddit
Reality is that people you might agree with are not good people. A ton left wing German militant groups were/are terrorist.
outoftimeman@reddit
Yeah, fuck Hans-Martin Schleyer. In Stuttgart, there's a concert hall named after him ... this fucker was an SS-Officer
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
They were a Soviet auxiliary that attempted to destabilize west Germany on behalf of Moscow.
Monterenbas@reddit
And how many non nazi did they murdered?
censhin@reddit
based
BuzzAllWin@reddit
Over a million people participated in the holocaust, less than 10,000 faced any punishment. Many organisers ended up back in government roles
zwarty@reddit
Germany barely even sentenced their perpetrators. There’s a great book about it by Tobias Buck: Final Verdict: A Holocaust Trial in the Twenty-First Century
OGLikeablefellow@reddit
Yeah can we put some money on her books or what?
censhin@reddit
I’ll buy her a carton of cigarettes and soap
OGLikeablefellow@reddit
She deserves it
MarlenHamsic@reddit
The way she got caught makes me so angry. Here's to hope she doesn't get suicided in prison like some of the high profile militants.
We'll see, I guess. She had a good run, at least.
VeryAwkwardCake@reddit
Do you know what the red army faction was?
MarlenHamsic@reddit
I do. I also know that she was found thanks to a facial recognition software (that's illegal for the police to use) used by a random podcast. That makes me angry.
Quiet_Treacle_2919@reddit
I’d like to understand. Do you support her actions? Why?
MarlenHamsic@reddit
I don't know what exactly she did, bank robberies in the 80s? Not sure. She wasn't active in the 70s.
As for the more general "do I support these kinds of actions", not really, not in the west, not because of any moral reason, but because they don't work. And it's demonstrated by the fact that Germany isn't socialist.
Same as (alleged) Mangione. Not a moral reason, but I don't think that this kind of action will bring results.
Doesn't mean I'm sorry for an insurance CEO. And doesn't mean I condone the way Klette has been found.
fka84@reddit
why do you say it doesn't work when those were just isolated events/group? If it was widespread its would surely cause a shock in the system woudn't it?
KackhansReborn@reddit
This nuanced take is wasted on this website lol
judasblue@reddit
TIL that RAF was still around after the late 70's. As an old, parochial US citizen I knew about the first generation and second generation of this group but didn't realize there was a third generation and possibly beyond. Since our radical bombings here stopped after the 70s (so much so that most folks in the US don't even realize we had pretty much daily radical bombings in the US for a chunk of that decade) I was assuming for no good reason that the same had happened in Germany. Guess not.