Tired of choosing between commies and fascists
Posted by tallguy900000@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 42 comments
Democrats are commies and Trump has transformed Republicans into fascists.
International socialism = Democrats and national socialism = Republicans.
Either way socialism is rammed up your butt. Feels all the same to me.
Vote for classically libertarian candidates or stay home.
lastwindows@reddit
Any legitimate history professor will educated you that Fascists are on the Left. Stalin was the first fascist dictator in modern times, followed by Hitler and Mussolini. You are confused due to the multiple psych-ops going on in this country. Thank MR. Obama for that green light he gave in 2014.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
I like how you caveat it with "any legitimate professor" so that you can just deny anyone who says otherwise as not counting as "legitimate". Well played.
Anyway, fascism is generally considered a right-wing ideology, because fascism is characterized by the following things:
Social Hierarchy: Fascism believes in natural social inequality and rigid hierarchies, rejecting the left-wing concept of class equality.Traditionalism: It heavily emphasizes ultranationalism, militarism, and the preservation of "traditional" national, racial, or cultural identities.Economics: Unlike the far-left, which advocates for state ownership of the economy, fascists maintain private property and corporate power.
Wolf482@reddit
How has Trump turned Republicans into fascists. Be specific.
xaqaria@reddit
He's aligned his government with large companies, taken money from them, taken partial ownership of them, taken their CEOs on diplomatic trips as if they are government employees. He has sought to control the media through illegal political manuevers; threatening to cancel fcc licenses for media organizations that he doesn't like. He has siezed control over the power of the purse and the power to declare war from congress. He has used the pardon power to to elicit bribes. He has sought control over elections and directed the state republicans to rig elections in their favor. Votes were thrown in the trash to change the rules in the middle of an election.
Just off the top of my head.
hokieneer@reddit
So sound like every potus since 1970.
Im not defending the guy, but your list of grievances have been going on for decades.
xaqaria@reddit
Can you name the times these things have happened before?
hokieneer@reddit
Sure, just off the top of my head:
Fed Gov has bailed out Chrysler, GM, the entire airline industry post 9/11, chose which FI to bail out after 2008, SVB recently. CEOs of key companies in key industries have always been working/aligned with the executive, who do you think facilitate all the private contracts for rebuilding and natural resources after we bomb a country?
Media capture - again has been happening for 50 years. Really has ramped up post 2016. Remember the twitter and fb files? Both recent admins have been forcing social media companies to censor and put the thumb on the scales.
Congress has abdicated their power of war and purse a long time ago. We haven't' had a declaration of war since WW2, yet we always have a war going on somewhere. Congress has pursued no downsizing or budget cuts in 50 years. Throw on Nixon officially removing the gold charade in 71, and the executive has had an unstoppable power of the purse. The executive is the first group that gets to spend a lot of new currency being injected.
Pardons == bribes, yep, pardons are not just a federal tool either. Wait to learn about who our 50 governors pardon yearly.
I hope you're young and just lack a lot of historical context, because your list has been going on for a long time, and right now this is just another dog and pony show.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
The Biden administration didn't take ownership in any major companies (I think), though he had Congressional authorization to do so due to the CHIPS Act.
During the financial crises, the Obama Admin did do it on a temporary basis during bankruptcy and restructuring. The government old off all of it around 2012-2013 after the crises.
That's quite a bit different than what Trump has been doing, which is not temporary and not during a financial crisis to help prevent an economic collapse.
hokieneer@reddit
Intel vs bailouts are a distinction without a difference for my simple mind. Hell for one of these charades, either GM or Chrysler, the gov bragged about getting depressed assets in one of thsde bailout. Assets that turned out to be worthless of course.
Every single maneuver like this is illiberal, anti free market, and is putting fed gov squarely in a place to influence winners and losers in the market.
If you re calling intel fascism, then you have to call basically the entire 20th century as fascism cause regulatory capture is a thing.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
If you think that doing it on a temporary basis during a once-in-three-generatioms economic crises is the same as doing it permanently during normal times as a normal policy is the same thing... then I suppose we will havr to agree to disagree.
And facism is a collection of things, not just one action.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
Also, while Congress hasn't declared war in a long time, they authorized the two Iraq Wars and anti-terror actions including the war in Afghanistan. Trump never went to Congress for the Iran war (and won't for his upcoming Cuba invasion.
From a quick search:
1991 (Gulf War): The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (P.L. 102-1) authorized the president to use U.S. armed forces to enforce UN resolutions and remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait. 2001 (War on Terror): The 2001 AUMF (P.L. 107-40) authorized the president to use all necessary and appropriate force against those responsible for the 9/11 attacks. This has been used as the legal justification for military operations in dozens of countries over the last two decades. 2002 (Iraq War): The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (P.L. 107-243) authorized the president to defend U.S. national security against the threat posed by Iraq.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
Exactly!!!!!!! They all display elements of the commies or fascists.
Wolf482@reddit
What company has he taken over? He also has not taken over power of the purse nor the ability to declare war. Like, that's just not true at all. Congress still has that power. If they fail to act, it's on them, once again, welcome to the expansion of the executive. Lincoln pioneered it and every president since, has expanded executive power. That doesn't make Trump fascist, nor does ANY of what you said actually mean fascism other than state controlled industry.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
He's had the federal government buy significant ownership interests in about 15 companies, including companies like Intel, Westinghouse and US Steel.
xaqaria@reddit
He took 10% stake in Intel making the government the largest shareholder.
He continues to impose tariffs despite a court ruling that they are illegal.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
Not only that, but Trump made six personal purchases of Intel stock in March, shortly before the Commerce Department authorized specific chip sales to China, and Trump announced the Federal Government buying a 10% share of the company, which caused Intel shares to surge.
Corrupt as hell.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
They favor nationalism over libertarian views.
Plus the way he used foreign money to railroad Massie.
tenpl_sten@reddit
I am a nationalist and a libertarian... I think the word you're looking for is authoritarian
SadTumbleweed1567@reddit
Define nationalist in this context? Even the liberal nationalism of the 19th century is kinda on the fringe of being libertarian.
The liberal notion that all German speaking peoples are one nation, or all the people on the Italian peninsula are one nation, and should be united into one state, or that the Magyars, Poles or Czechs are one people that should have their own state independent of Vienna, Berlin and Moscow isn't necessarily in conflict with libertarianism, but it does get close to a collectivism that minimizes the individual (i.e. only members of the nation have rights, and membership in the nation is based on ethnicity or language).
xaqaria@reddit
Democrats aren't socialists. The democratic party is center-right, more neoliberalism than anything else.
bassjam1@reddit
Only when you compare them to just a few eastern European countries. On a world scale the Democrats are definitely on the left side.
joe_elbow_balls@reddit
Center to center right, with a few center left members is the way I see it
BakedGoods@reddit
they are definitely more right than Canada's liberals.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
That means zero.
GoPrO_BMX@reddit
Holy ragebait. Well played OP
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
These people seem more upset over terms used than the fact both parties are statists. In recent elections, Communist Parry USA did not run a candidate because they endorsed the Democrat candidates and likewise the American Nazi Party endorsed Republican candidates for the same reason
Not_Sold_4178@reddit
Trump isn’t a fascist.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
Yes he is. He favors outcomes over the Constutution
bassjam1@reddit
By that definition Biden and Obama were also fascists.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
no they are communists.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
Here is Umberto Eco's 14 points of fascism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism
They seem to apply a great deal to Trump, eo they not?
X57471C@reddit
Additionally, look up Roger Griffin's book on fascism and his definition of "palingenetic ultranationalism". You tell me if MAGA uses rebirth myths to stoke nationalist identities
PerceptionSand@reddit
It sounds a lot like Trump
ItShouldntBe06@reddit
Trump isn’t fascist and Democrats aren’t commies.
Round-Asparagus5337@reddit
What's your definiton of "fascist"?
p53_gene@reddit
People need to read James Burnham. they're different wings of what will be an all encompassing managerial state. it's the neoliberal path to the same end point China achieved through "communism"
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
I beg to disagree.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
Trump having the guv take equity in private companies like Intel is fascism. Control nominally remains in private hands but the guv pulls the strings.
A commie, however, would seize the company lock, stock and barrel.
SadTumbleweed1567@reddit
Damn, some of ya'll are dumber than a brick. Democrats aren't close to being socialists or communists. Their economic policy is primarily neoliberalism with a touch of social democracy. Still squarely under the umbrella of liberalism.
You'd be better off criticizing them, and Republicans, for their shared disdain for civil liberties.
tallguy900000@reddit (OP)
This is why libertarians never win. We nit pick a post that basically summarizes what our opponents are.
CaliRefugeeinTN@reddit
First, before calling people names, define commie and fascist without looking those terms up.
Secret_Gatekeeper@reddit
It is fascinating to be called a “commie” ad an ardent capitalist working for a hedge fund lol.