Is pride in 'good' work and community spirit dying out in the UK?
Posted by LogTheDogFucksFrogs@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 101 comments
A dramatic title I know, but I'm starting to wonder.
For various reasons, I've recently been talking to a lot of young people, both uni students and people in early careers, about jobs, and it's struck me how little pride or interest so many of them take in the idea of a 'good' job.
I don't mean 'good' job as in well-paid, more something that is honest, respectable and gives proper value to society. Being a doctor, say, or an engineer, or a postman, or teacher, or mechanic.
Maybe I'm looking with rose-tinted spectacles, but when I was young, 15 or 20 years ago, these were things that people seemed to genuinely aspire to and there was a sense that there was a moral value in participating in society and 'doing your bit'.
Young people today don't seem to believe in this stuff at all. I've been speaking to student doctors and literally all of them are just complaining about pay and work life balance and saying how they plan to leave and go and become (1) an influencer, (2) a scuba instructor in Hawaii, (3) a Youtuber. That's three specific examples in no particular order off the top of my head. Medicine is notorious for being exhausting early career but I've been hearing exactly the same things from people in more regular 9 to 5 jobs, or just about to enter them, where burnout isn't a factor and on the face of it, the pay and general work package is good. Engineers, teachers, electricians. They all seem to have a sense that a normal, socially productive 9 to 5 is somehow for losers and that there's something naive and passe in wanting to contribute to society.
If you're not either chasing megabucks in the city or a pro sportsman or an influencer or a slum landlord, they don't want to know. Indeed, the more socially useless and 'passive' the job is, the more it seems to be praised.
I know I'm probably just being an old man yelling at the clouds with this but I wondered whether anyone else has had similar experiences?
I'm boggled at how insular and (frankly a bit) selfish so many young people seem nowadays. Any idea of being part of and taking pride in contributing to a wider whole beyond the self seems to have completely broken down.
Equal-Passion-5760@reddit
I’m 27 and I have no pride in my work, I’ve never even had a job I’ve liked they’ve always been a chore, I’ve never liked that I work a 9-5 I hate having a routine and I’ve never wanted to be average. I don’t have community spirit, I’ve always hated that my neighbours know who I am and I always get uncomfortable when they speak to me because I’ve never understood why you’d want to speak to your neighbours, but I haven’t given up on reaching the life I want, having the money to not work another day and living in the sticks away from everyone
MrB_RDT@reddit
Close friends who believe this, refuse to acknowledge they were on the equivalent of 70 grand plus in their earning years. Going by today's standards.
Bank of mum and dad was better off, and in most cases helped out with buying a house. Everyone I know who worked retail for example, owned a decent semi or bungalow in a nice part of town. Those in higher earning roles back then, bought a lovely old cottage out of the way.
With generally much better public services, and a higher standard of living and socialising. Money even looked like it went further.
DoctorWhofan789eywim@reddit
Why would young people take pride in jobs that 99% of the time are extremely poorly paid?
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Because thats litterally how every career starts out, outside of some highly paying, highly sort after roles.
Start on shit momey and work your way up. Its what my greats, grands and parents did, as I did.
EvolvingEachDay@reddit
“Starts out” I’ve been working since 16, nigh on half my life, still below UK average wage. There is no working your way up anymore. Hard work, loyalty, ass kissing, job hopping; tried them all for fuck all benefit. And more people than not feel the same.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Have you done your aat? Level four will get you between 30 and 45k.
Infact have you done any courses or thing to move up in the world or do you want it handed to you?
EvolvingEachDay@reddit
I’ve got a degree. Various training courses such as management and counselling. Academic, extra curricular and post education personal achievements from creative, to sporting to Duke of Edinburgh etc. I interview well, have never been out of work more than a month. But the mechanisms for high pay are simply not what they were. The only time I’ve actually earned above average wage, it was so stressful it caused panic attacks and I had to quit.
RiverGlittering@reddit
Not everyone wants to do accounting.
And courses aren't a guarantee at all. I studied, and it took me 8 years to hit 30k. Then I got laid off anyway.
Lysadora@reddit
There's no working your way up when wages stagnate but everything else gets more expensive.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Lol, are you kidding me?
Wages stagnate in the same role, if people used their brain and changed roles then wages increase much faster than rpi.
Lysadora@reddit
No, why would I be kidding? It's not funny, it's life for many of us.
Have you considered the possibility that whatever unicorn job you have isn't representative?
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Haha, im a recruiter. I laugh because I was content for ages working at tesco, unhappy with my wage but not willing to out myself out there.
So no, im not even talking about my job, im talking about the people ive seen move from 30k grad roles to 120k+ roles in 15 years personally, I see it all the time.
I also see the same people who started on 30k and are happy with the 60k they earn now and dont want to move any further, but again, they aint the ones complaining.
Its the echo chamber on reddit that makes you believe it is shit when its not, all you have to do is apply yourself.
Lysadora@reddit
Recruiter? Great. You aren't familiar with my industry so your 'advice' is useless, and borderline offensive.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
How do you know what industries I have experience in lol, I recruit for a vast array of industries!
See, you just want to be combative rather than have an actual conversation about it... That wont help when it comes to career progression.
If you just want to assume (which you have done twice in 2 comments) then you will never get anywhere in life. But at least you have reddit to complain too i guess.
Arnoave@reddit
Yeah but the money after working your way up just isn't worth the increasing reams of shit you have to eat to get there, anymore. It's just not the same calculation as it used to be.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
So now its not the starting wage is bad, its that its not "worth" earning more?
Pick a side mate.
Arnoave@reddit
The "more" isn't as significant an increase as it used to be, and requires a lot more from the individual than it used to, as well as the entry level money not covering basic costs. It's a perfect storm really.
ReadingIntelligent50@reddit
It's both you retard
TimenyCricket20@reddit
Also working your way up just isn't a thing anymore with many companies opting to take the piss heaping more responsibility onto workers without offering the financial incentive or promotion.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
You dont have to stay at one company to work your way up, every 3 years move and get a better job, that opens up the entry jobs for others.
Its not something new here, its the same its been for 70 odd years. Work somewhere, get experience, go somewhere else, rinse and repeat.
DarkHavok80@reddit
That world does not exist any more mate..
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
I promise you it does. I litterally see it working every day in my job.
People who I got grad jobs for 5 years ago are now on 60k.
You have to want to better yourself for it, people just want things handed to them.
DoctorWhofan789eywim@reddit
Which was absolutely fine when 'shit money' could still pay the mortgage and put food on the table. In 2026 that just isn't the case anymore. It's all well and good saying 'work your way up', not very practical advice to a generation living hand to mouth.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Most 18 year olds live at home still, so plenty viable to do something to start a career. A simple aat level 4 will net you more than uk average wage after 3/4 years.
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
People can live with a bad job with good benefits or a good job with bad benefits; the current offering is bad jobs with bad benefits.
HarHenGeoAma62818@reddit
Being on shit money doesn’t mean you have to be treated badly , infact if I were an employer of said people I would go above and beyond to keep them.
If they aren’t going to build there own dream they will get paid to build someone else’s is
Rich-Peak-3902@reddit
Not just poorly paid, but poorly treated, poorly respected, poorly valued and with an awful work/life balance. The latest generations of young people have not been sucessfully indoctrinated into contentment with a shit life.
giganticturnip@reddit
Do you read The Daily Mail by any chance?
Glittering_Echo_7963@reddit
My husband is an engineer and I am a civil servant. We're not able to make a living, and if we wanted to start a family we would loose the house, as we can't live on one salary and nursery would cost more than I make every month. We're looking to sell our house and move into a van. The jobs for whoever wants them, they don't allow us to live, it's just the two of us and we're loosing money every month. Forget about a family, pets, travelling... Not worth it in the SLIGHTEST
Illustrious-Plum1766@reddit
Vocation means you can be paid less, because someone will still do the job.
It’s the market in action.
hols_hanger@reddit
I'd question whether people of yester-year were doing jobs for community spirit or just did jobs?
My parents were teachers and yeah, perhaps they valued the moral elements, but it was also a stable job that put food on the table...
visitingshortly@reddit
Yes. But the social contract is broken. We stopped enforcing a high trust, culturally intergrated society. With street crime running rampant. A judiciary that seems to actively be working against victims and policing that has become weak and frankly in many cases seems unprofessional.
We are at the highest tax rates since WW2. A graduate jobs crisis and welfare expansion approach that basically looks to try and catch and underpin the appalling business environment. And you have stagnant productivity since 08 and wages under pacing inflation. With what seems like an ever rising tax bill against any wage increases (to support welfare growth).
And this is even before you get into the migration issues the UK is facing and emigration of top talent out of the UK.
Take those toxic factors collectively. It’s inevitable that community spirit and belief in conventional professions has eroded. If you want it to return you need greater cultural pride and identity along with civic pride in high trust high safety environment and you need wages and moving standards to increase.
You lament the obsession with valid professions but your not consider the factors driving it.
JennyW93@reddit
I did a ‘good’ job, for a charity, that required a PhD. It paid £25kpa.
I quickly learnt that ‘good’ jobs are much more feasible if you’re independently wealthy, and not really possible if you need to earn a living.
Odd_Championship7286@reddit
My wife gets this a lot as an artist. “But you love making art so it doesn’t matter that you don’t get paid much” but love for art doesn’t pay rent or put food on the table
farraigemeansthesea@reddit
Another PhD here and stuck in never ending short-term postdocs of short duration. I even moved away from the UK to get away from the ZHC teaching that we're going nowhere, to find myself little better (though I do get sick pay and a holiday allowance) abroad. Incidentally, whilst negotiating my pay grade earlier this year, I was also told in as many words that I should teach for the satisfaction of knowledge transmission and not the money. Satisfaction, however, wouldn't put clothes on my family's backs.
FadedAlligator@reddit
Completely agree to an extent. I don’t think it’s that younger people are inherently selfish, it’s more that the social contract feels broken now. A lot of people have grown up watching their parents work honest, respectable jobs and still struggle with housing, bills and general quality of life.
When you’re told to “do your bit” but the reward is stagnant wages, impossible house prices and less security than previous generations had, it’s not surprising people start prioritising comfort, flexibility or escape over duty and community spirit.
Feels like young people today are often choosing between living comfortably and doing something they’re genuinely passionate about, versus taking on socially valuable work that actually worsens your affordability and living conditions. Hard to blame them entirely for becoming cynical about it.
hoverside@reddit
A lot of my colleagues when I worked in charities were married to someone who earned big money in finance/law/big corporate head office. Hard to stay long in the sector otherwise for someone in London unless you had some other housing option like a council flat, living with your parents forever etc.
Lea32R@reddit
Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, and the Tories have been doing their damnest to make that true for over a decade.
The idea of community has been superseded by the capitalist promotion of the individual as supreme. The reality has been superseded by the capitalist promotion of housing as a privately-owned asset instead of a public resource. We've not only lost the idea of community but also the reality.
On a personal note, I work in social care and I don't meet the Joseph Rowntree foundation's financial benchmark of an income which allows an individual in modern Britain to "participate in society." That's my reward for doing this "good job."
Ok-Rain6295@reddit
Why the fuck would we take pride in being used to make billionaires more money whilst we struggle to afford to live?
whatmichaelsays@reddit
I'll throw the question back at you..... Has the reward for taking pride in your work died out?
Virtue doesn't pay the bills, and ask yourself why young people don't feel engaged with the social norm of "an honest days work for an honest days pay" - it's because the "honest day's pay" part of the bargain has been ripped away.
A normal, honest job doesn't get you the house, the nice holiday or two, the savings account and the opportunity to start a family like it used to.
If you want to engage young people, offer them a deal that at least allows them to get something out of life.
FarAd8547@reddit
F
GamingTitBit@reddit
There are a couple of factors, "back in the day" a good job meant a good quality of life. A house, being able to support a family if you desired, being well respected. Good jobs don't provide that anymore, you essentially have to be either in a relationship with both of you contributing to be able to afford a house/kids or in the top 10% of earners. Also everything is squeezing you, hours of work are getting longer, expectations go up when the market is down, fear and anxiety grow when the job market is terrible and your closest largest ally decided to elect a president whose sole job is to destabilize the current economy.
Good job no longer equals good life. So why would anyone take pride in it?
SlightlyIncandescent@reddit
I don't know if I count as young people at 35 but my experience has been that I entered the workforce in 2008 with the biggest financial crisis in generations and I felt it. I've had several jobs where I joined, worked hard for the promotion, got it and it turns out now I get literally an extra 0.50 - 1.00 per hour for double the work - even when moving up to managerial roles. This is in a few completely different industries I've tried, in and out of the city so I really have tried a lot.
I have several examples just of people in my family from previous generations doing unskilled work and their pay rose over time to an acceptable level where they could support families, that just hasn't been the case for me and almost everyone I know from my generation.
So in a career my options are either do the bare minimum and earn the bare minimum or work myself to the bone for maybe 10% more. When they are your options it's easy to see why many choose the first one. Many have also started to check out of the idea of a career completely and learn to live on very little in microhomes and smallholdings and I can see why.
yearsofpractice@reddit
Hey OP. There’s never been a utopia of honest people doing honest work and feeling fulfilled because of their contribution to society. In your mind, it was 15 to 20 years ago when you were young… I’m 50 and can therefore confidently say it was equally as pointless and awful back then too. People are exactly the same, jobs are exactly the same… you’ve just grown up and realised how frustrating and silly the world is. I’ve got good news though - just embrace the silliness and it sort of begins to make sense.
EvolvingEachDay@reddit
“I don’t mean good as in well paid”
Not a good job then is it.
f00lism@reddit
Most of these jobs you mention only give a very basic standard of living - no savings, no holidays, no luxury, minimal pension, potential to enter a ridiculously inflated property market if shared, which s quite likely to crash during the length of the mortgage, very low likelihood of retirement in reasonable time etc..
It is absolutely ludicrous to compare the lifestyle say, a police officer could maintain 20 years ago on the returns that the work generates to what a PC can maintain now, and equally likely to be ludicrous to compare now to 20yrs time.
Essentially we have the most spoiled and entitled generation in history (and the only one to leave their kids worse off than they are in hundreds of years), asking why their kids wont do the same thing as they did for a fraction of the return they had, for no bigger reason than they wanted to keep all the money they could get and leech off their kids futures for a comfortable retirement.
What kind of moron would agree to that deal? But people have to survive so they do what they can, but when someone's offering you as little as they possibly can get away with, while living it large themselves, what kind of entitlement does it take to not understand why they don't care as much as people who benefited to a massively greater degree.
And lets not even get onto the cost of being educated now to even take a stab at jobs like Engineer or Doctor because, of course, the same entitled generation had to monetize all this as much as possible to again deprive their kids of a future in exchange for a comfortable retirement for themselves - in this case specifically via their pension funds.
OneEggOmelette@reddit
You cant even get work and when you do you're treated like garbage. God forbid you have any sort of health issues in this country and you arent rich kr have private healthcare. I decay faster than they can help me wjth skme things ive fully accepted they wkll never be able to help me and have to go private. I had to pay fkr a jaw mri scan and gender hormones. Ive been on the jaw waiting list twice and everytime I got to the top they took me off list and told me nothing was wrong. Waited 6 years to be diagnosed with adhd still waiting 6 months on for medicstion will be waiting at leat amother 6 months. Mental healthcae is a joke. I literally have just accepted being addicted to pain mediation and accepting the consequences that comes witu that hecause the alternative is most likelikely suicide because I cant take the pain anymore and the doctors refuse to do anything other than symptom trsatment . If I wanted gender hormones I will be waiting toll im.30 and im 22. The UK is absolutely destroying and killing certain classes of people. Im white english my family been here as long or longer than any king of england. And I feel let down
hybridtheorist@reddit
Maybe its rose tinted specs myself, but I feel like in the past, being a...... I dunno, bus driver, pub landlord, welder, whatever would give you a certain standard of living, so yeah, you could have pride in doing a good job, even if it wasnt gonna change the world.
Nowadays, the younger people you've talking about would struggle to pay rent doing those jobs, and definitely struggle to save to buy a house. So yeah, fuck it, why should they have pride in their work?
Iamblaine1983@reddit
1) everyone has dreams, I personally wanted to be a musician selling out Arenas and snorting coke of hookers asses, but here I am 20(ish) years later, working a respectable "good" job in cyber security, even back then everyone I knew had aspirations to be something different.
2) I volunteer a lot of my time at careers events/mock Interviews for sixth formers and high schoolers and these "prestige" jobs are still very much what "the yoofs" aspire to be, the ones I speak to are largely passionate about their next steps be it uni or apprenticeships. (Even met a lad who had a part time job restoring church organs which he planned take on full time when he left school)
3) The whole "work hard, be noticed and work your way up" mindset was starting to die around the time I entered the job market, and the last couple of generations have really started to reinforce that, they value things like work life balance, mental health and being paid enough to live even early on In their careers, and I applaud them for that.
4) absolutely none of this has anything to do with community spirit
eunderscore@reddit
Well we all hate each other and no one has any money so they feel they're getting nothing out of life, so see no reason to give back to a society that doesn't value them
occasionalrant414@reddit
I'm 40. I was taught to work hard and that, if I got a degree and put the hours in, I'd get a good job and that my hard work would be rewarded.
I'm doing OK, but not like my dad did (with less qualifications) - I have a Masters in my field. Indeed, I'm earning about 58% less than he did if you adjust (or have the internet do it). I'm midway through my career.
Imagine what it's like for younger people. They need a degree for any job now. Pay is stagnant and the pandemic taught us that we could actually work remotely, deliver results and remove commuting (saving me for example 2hrs a day), but employers are demanding RTO or hybrid working. The world has gotten shitter, we are all at each others throats, the Nazis are at it again, the US is fucking us over because of the tangerine tyrant and things cost more money now, but wages have not kept up. Young people struggle to get a house, they are vilified in the press (MH, social media addiction, being lazy and what not), and they are being asked to work their arses off for min wage, for companies that care even less now as they all chase the last penny, in a country that feels more divided than ever. Why would they take pride in working under the current conditions? What is a good job? Do they exist? I have been applying for jobs over the last year and the process is much worse now than even 5yrs ago. Ai sucks.
There may be high paying STEM jobs and other technical ones but let's be honest, our education system doesn't nurture people for these roles. Also, not everyone can do them. You need the right brain as well as the desire to do them. Companies don't train anymore, they don't have loyalty to their staff like they did 10/20yrs ago - people are, on the whole, considered "low value" (to paraphrase a wanker banker). Who wants to aspire to work for that!?
What and where are the good jobs? What does one need to do them? Will they pay enough for a young person to have a house and a family? If not, what's the point? If I could make millions by selling feet pics, or giving my opinion on YouTube I bloody would. I can see the appeal.
When I talk to uni students (I mentor some of those that are doing the Masters degree I did 15yrs ago), there seems very little hope for the future with some. Some are set, but a lot are not excited, they are worried.
HarHenGeoAma62818@reddit
Another thing to add to this is people have been working at same job for many years then someone out of school
With a degree (not much idea about the job itself) have better qualifications and then become the poor sod whose been there for years knows the job inside out boss
Pleasant_Reward3558@reddit
I did recently interview skills for a high school year 11s in north west England. I can say this take is way off.
Every kid had unbelievable drive and aspirations. Many wanted to get into the army, one lad comes to mind who wanted to be a tank mechanic. Lots of psychologists. Many wanting to be tradesmen working for their own business. Mental health nurses. Not one single child that I interviewed stayed influencer or scuba diver instructor.
I’m not sure which age group or demographic you are referring to, but my interview skills session was in a state school in a working class area.
the01li3@reddit
A lot of jobs are very overworked, underpaid, and have to deal with really annoying public customers/patients. "young people today" ive honestly had enough of this, the world is getting more expensive to live, jobs arent accomadting for this. "this job has always been rough to start but it gets good" is not a valid excuse either, and we should be making it nicer for people to get into these jobs.
Yes its selfish, people work for themselves, they work to get paid, people dont work "cos we are a family here" and that veil is slipping.
the01li3@reddit
And judging by the lack of replies from the OP, im goign to guess he cba to put in the work to see other peoples point of view either.
CranberryWizard@reddit
Depending on your definion of ''young', but when i was growing up in the 00s, we were repeatedly told the only way to get a good job, and it garuntees one is a bachelors degree. We were pushed hard into higher education. So we all got one, fully expecting that promise to materialise.
The second we graduated it was proven to be a massive lie. A lof of our faith in the social co ntract died right there.
We did what we were supposed to do but were left out in the cold
Square_Quarter_229@reddit
Yes. It’s caused by a cyber warfare strategy aimed at weakening the UK. China is also worried about exactly the same thing. They recently talked about how they blame the West for the ‘lying flat’ movement
PanakinMcSkywalker@reddit
Work pays peanuts, companies don't care enough about employees, so aforementioned employees don't care about the company. Why go above and beyond when someone doing the bare minimum earns the same?
Underpaid, doing far more work than the money could ever justify. All while worrying that you won't have a job next year, let alone a payrise to give you a standard of living comparable to someone doing the same job 30 years ago.
Why bother.
pointlesstips@reddit
Maybe if previous generations haf given the right example they might have aspired to meaning something more foe their society.
txe4@reddit
It's not just the young. It's a cultural change.
It is very hard to find anyone who will do a proper decent job at anything unless supervised.
Almost everyone will slack off to the very maximum extent possible and do the barest minimum to prevent immediate firing.
Well organised *systems* like, say Amazon dot com or Tesco, still manage to produce effective results using these broken people but systems which formerly relied on the humans within them to function correctly without supervision are now failing.
Covid was the accelerator for this mess. A society-wide experiment in "what happens if we pay half the population to do fuck-all and allow the rest to use any excuse not to do their jobs?".
And yes we do treat the young like crap as a society and we have imported a LOT of people from societies where conscientious and pride in work are seen as character flaws - but it's a broad cultural shift and not confined to any group.
blanketred4@reddit
Because the social contract has been broken.
People wanted to "do their bit" when they trusted that society would, in return, "do its bit" for them. Look at politics now - it is incredibly obvious to anyone following along that the people in control of the state are trying to take what they can for themselves and their rich buddies at the expense of everyone else.
Why would young people want to "do their bit" for a society that gives no care to them? Why wouldn't they just want to make money the easiest way possible when opportunities and assets like housing are getting harder and harder to access?
fluffyfluffscarf28@reddit
Are you listing teaching among these quietly respectable 9-5 jobs? Because as a teacher for ten years, thinking its 9-5 is laughable. I love my job, but it's brutal, and not always that respected either.
Young people are extremely hard working. They want to achieve and do well. I see that in and out every single day. Lots of them have ambitions and dreams, and the drive to get there.
Its just that in this climate, with high cost of living, an almost total inability to buy a house, unpredictable politics, climate change, extreme social issues like toxic masculinity, and very poor mental health care, the idea of a regular 9-5, house, social life and family seems almost impossible. So they look elsewhere. Can you really blame them? If we as adults are sceptical about politics and the economy, teenagers are even more so.
ChancePattern@reddit
I'm 34 so not particularly young but I can definitely understand that people are disillusioned by these good jobs. What's the point in getting stressed and go into debt to get a relatively difficult degree to then barely make enough money to survive? I started my career as an engineer in London on £26k about 12 yrs ago and life was tough, young people joining engineering grad schemes now are getting paid slightly more than this when the cost of living has skyrocketed so I completely understand why they are deflated
Click4-2019@reddit
Yes it’s gone,
People don’t value that things take time.
I got told by a council officer how a house I own that I’m working on is taking a long time.
Keeps coming back every 6 weeks expecting it finished.
Everyone wants things done quickly now, and the people doing work only care about getting in, getting out, paid and onto next on as quick as possible.
As long as it meets legal requirements and acceptable standards that’s all that they care about. No pride or care any more.
freexe@reddit
My builder is 6 months off retirement. He's the only one to actually do a proper job. He's taught me so much as well!
Accurate_Might_3430@reddit
Perhaps 20 years ago these would have been the graduates who were expecting a senior role with a corner office straight out of university. It was common enough back then.
Reality has a way of realigning expectations, and I don’t mean that in a cynical way. Life will hit hard, but they’ll adapt, and they’ll be fine.
Bibblejw@reddit
Do those same doctors get respect from the public or community, or do they routinely get shat on by the public they serve, and berated for being “money-grubbing” by people bitching about strikes and industrial action?
There was a time that jobs in the public good were respected and rewarded (typically not as well as those not in those areas, but still to a decent degree), but that’s been eroded by two decades of media berating anyone in the public sector, and wages that haven’t shifted since the year started with a 1.
I know people that work in the public sector, and they genuinely believe in what they’re doing, but are hemorrhaging people because you can get 50-300% more money for the same work elsewhere, and you can’t eat belief.
sweatypissflap@reddit
whats the point in putting effort in and being proud when you're shafted at every turn?
do as little as you can for as much money and just enough to not get sacked.
R_110@reddit
Ask someone who's been working 20 years as a doctor and they will usually not recommend people doing it.
Yes the there is joy in helping people but the toll it takes and how much of your life you need to give up to be constantly fucked over is not worth it.
Kids now are just seeing the effects of the state of the world the last few decades and deciding what's the point.
tiger1296@reddit
When there is little hope for you to ever own your own home, struggle to ever go on a holiday, the whole world is just filled with malice for every person around what exactly is there left to be proud of?
What’s the point putting in the effort if you literally never get any reward?
WhaleMeatFantasy@reddit
I saw an excellent comment here recently.
These days, everyone wants to live in a village, but no one wants to be a villager. Seems to sum up a lot of what you are saying.
Arnoave@reddit
Villagers need a share of the harvest though, otherwise they have to look after their own families first.
ReadingIntelligent50@reddit
Keep that whale meat in yo mouth
ClarkeR77@reddit
I do put effort in so I don't get fired but I find it hard to take pride in making other people money. My corporate job IS pretty meaningless and while I'm glad I can pay the bills I don't know how to muster up any true pride or enthusiasm in making a company money.
Shoddy_Pie6514@reddit
My dad was a sparky andy mom was a part time dinner lady and me and my two siblings lived in a 4 bed house. Me and my wife are both office managers on way more than my dad was and barely get by with a house half that size. No offense but this pride in work thing can get shoved right up a cock until the money matches the work.
ProfessionSmart4165@reddit
I am a community support worker for a local charity. A few of my colleagues are in their early 20s and they are far more conscientious and community minded than I was capable of until I was humbled by life I think you just have to look in the right places, they are definitely there
marmiteyogurt@reddit
For contributing to society, they get very little in return realistically, teachers and drs (and any other public facing job), have to deal with abusive children and patients, its much harder to own a home now on one wage, often little loyalty from a company (its easier to be promoted, salary increase by job hopping, as very few companies value loyalty these days), they will be working until an older age, I don't blame them from wanting to do jobs/self employment type roles that offer more freedom/fun/flexibility.
ApprehensiveDare2649@reddit
Social media is to blame imo.
The worst for me is the new trend of “helping people” whilst filming it all to put up on social media for likes and brand deals etc.
propostor@reddit
Not a new trend at all but yes it's awful.
Upset-Elderberry3723@reddit
In his 2004 essay, 'The Politics Of Utopia', Frederic Jameson argues that the idea of society heading towards a utopic state was both the product - and the victim of - capitalism. When capitalism became self-destructive and unilaterally imposed in the latter half of the 20th century, futurism died and was replaced by cyberpunk. That increasing dividend demands, increasing lobbying of governments, automation, and outsourcing, ruined - and perhaps were the inevitable finale - of the economic boom.
In the 1950s, economists were predicting a standard 20-hour workweek by 2000.
Fine_Cress_649@reddit
Just my 2 cents but I don't think these jobs are as respected by society as you might think. Yes the people doing them may have less respect for them but they are only reflecting how society views these jobs. Society absolutely does not respect doctors, teachers, postman or mechanics - engineers maybe because of the myth-building of people like Dyson and Musk - but the others absolutely not.
Tea-n-crumpet@reddit
Yup and the rot starts at the top. It's not just young poorlyi
Arnoave@reddit
The rewards for hard work and loyalty have completely disappeared in the last 30-40 years. You can't expect people to uphold their end of the social contract when it's already been torn up and burned in their faces.
Arnoave@reddit
To add a further point: You seem to think those "good jobs" should be staffed by volunteers or something? They all pay complete shit and are increasingly pawned off to outsourcers like G4S, and Adecco. The workers filling these roles have little to no investment put into them by their employers, so the relationship becomes purely transactional. No more "golden watch for Fred after he did his 50 years" etc
haggis_catcher-@reddit
Whats your job?
OohSpookyParty@reddit
It’s hard to have pride in your work when all it does is serve corporations.
If back in the day I was a local shoemaker, blacksmith, carpenter, etc, I’d absolutely find pride in the work quality and serving my local community. You’d be 1 of only a few in that profession serving a specific, limited group of people.
We do not live in the olden days anymore. Value has a much different definition these says. Markets are oversaturated, and individualism is not what it used to be.
zZCycoZz@reddit
20 years ago the economy was in a much better place and people were more optimistic about their future pay.
Now everybodies pay bands are bunching together.
Working hard for a promotion for a few quid extra isnt going to spur the same motivation as back in the day.
Jmac0113@reddit
Yep. Has been for years.
GeggingIn@reddit
I think that’s deeply unfair view on young people, really.
AlwaysTheKop@reddit
Why would they want this!? I work all week and have nothing to show for it once my bills are covered... if I'm lucky I might be able to treat myself to one takeout per payslip...
Sixforsilver7for@reddit
Doctors used to be paid well. Higher up ones can earn a lot but being a junior doctor is a thankless job for a wage that isn’t much higher than far less stressful office jobs. And that’s if they even manage to get a placement after studying for so long. No wonder they’re planning relaxing back up careers. It’s incredible anyone even studies medicine these days.
GarwayHFDS@reddit
Kids today grow up in a virtual world, the real world isn't as important. You only have to see how devoted they are to their screens when they manage to get out in society.
This is a broad generalisation, there are a lot of kids happy to go out and investigate the world they live in.
Kittygrizzle1@reddit
My dil is a medical doctor. Except she can’t get a job, because the produce more med school grads than there are vacancies.Why wouldn’t she be an influencer if she can? How else is she going to pay her massive student debt?
Party_Advantage_3733@reddit
Nah it's always been like this, it's just people chatting.
shadyasahastings@reddit
Young people have been watching all the people in the trades you listed get pushed to their limits, underpaid and exploited for years and have come to feel like it’s not worth it. If you paid them enough in these professions to actually support themselves and build a life, I’m sure you’d see a lot more people applying to these jobs.
CelebrationSimilar11@reddit
I think more people are just valuing their self worth and mental health these days (as they should). No point in being a nurse when the pay is bad, conditions are worse and you feel like you’re not being valued enough for your contributions when you can take a more laid back job with better hours and less stress.
egvp@reddit
I'm in my mid-30s and if I had a choice when I was younger to make money being my own boss, doing something I loved, with a workload that's set by me...why on earth would I have taken anything else?
The problem isn't people wanting the easiest job, it's that the "normal" jobs have been utterly gutted to the point at which you earn as little as a company can get away with while being mentally and physically run into the ground.
Parshath_@reddit
Yes, it's partly a consequence of capitalism and infinite growth and profit expectation.
All companies want to keep selling more in exchange for as less possible, and that's noticeable across multiple areas.
That also brings high street landlords to keep increasing rents and pricing away community businesses and end up seeing mostly soul-less chains (many that evade tax) and are profit-focused and also price away local community initiatives.
Kitchen_Ad1456@reddit
Such an insular view to take lmao - your part of the problem
trippykitsy@reddit
you sir are part of the problem
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