If your brakes fail in a car, do you pump the brakes regardless of whether or not your car has ABS?
Posted by sunflower394@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 78 comments
On my Driver’s Study Guide (which is a 2023 version), it says that if your brakes fail, you should try pumping the brake pedal to temporarily restore hydraulic brake pressure. And if that doesn’t work, then use the emergency brake.
Knowing that this version is newer, they would consider that most modern cars have ABS, so did what they say still apply to cars with ABS?
timmeh-eh@reddit
Yes, ABS stops the wheels from locking up. If you have a brake failure you won’t be locking up your brakes.. pumping the brakes in this scenario is intended to build brake pressure in the hydraulic system when there’s a leak.. so pumping the pedal might still provide some braking when there is a pressure loss.
That’s different from the older guidance of pumping the brakes when stopping to act as a kind of ABS.
adostes@reddit
Wait wait wait wait, have I been braking wrong for the last 30 years? I was taught to break, come to a crawl and lift off and brake again to fully stop. If at a high speed, I was taught to just do more pumps, and then let go and fully brake to stop. Still the way I do it. It was not only to avoid locking up which I understand is no longer necessary but also avoid excessive wear on brake pads and prevent brakes from over heating and becoming less effective, especially in mountain driving. Basically I was taught to never continuously progressively brake. Is what I’m doing just an outdated practice? Note that I learned on a manual, so maybe it has something to do with the manual transmission and engine braking.
Various_Variety419@reddit
Are you driving a semi truck or a race car? Or an overloaded passenger vehicle down a steep incline? Personally I’ve never experienced brake fade due to overheating during regular road driving.
redeyedrenegade420@reddit
I bet you have 4 wheel disk brakes!
adostes@reddit
I appreciate your answer and deleted my post because I googled it and found an explanation.
The type of braking I was taught made sense when cars didn’t have ABS and had drum brakes. On a modern car with ABS and rotor brakes, slow progressive braking is better. The only thing still valid is downshifting and using the engine brake with slow pumps on long mountain descents. This is a decades long habit that’s gonna take a while to unlearn.
Downtown_Reward_6339@reddit
It also a different type of pumping:
On an old non ABS car you are simply reducing pressure to regain traction.
With ANY hydraulic system brake failure you want to use full pedal strokes.
adostes@reddit
I appreciate your answer and deleted my post because I googled it and found an explanation.
The type of braking I was taught made sense when cars didn’t have ABS and had drum brakes. On a modern car with ABS and rotor brakes, slow progressive braking is better. The only thing still valid is downshifting and using the engine brake with slow pumps on long mountain descents. This is a decades long habit that’s gonna take a while to unlearn.
Engineered_disdain@reddit
Shift to neutral, engage the emergency brake if you have a full catastrophic hydraulic brake failure.
Maintain your emergency brakes.
New_Line4049@reddit
No. Change down the gears and utilise engine braking to get slow.
Engineered_disdain@reddit
The question makes no reference to speed or motion, the replacement for the hydraulic brakes is the emergency brake.
The transmission can be used to reduce speed but braking is accomplished with the e-brake.
DFLDrew@reddit
Shift to neutral if you want to die
wooble@reddit
Better to downshift to use engine braking than to shift to neutral.
CrispyJalepeno@reddit
I'd be downshifting, personally, not neutral. May as well use the engine itself to slow me down
Ashkill115@reddit
It dosnt matter if a car has ABS or not. If your brakes fail then you’re not getting anything out of the system. You have a chance to get hydronic pressure if you pump it yes but I would have reached for an emergency brake while doing so. Most modern cars sadly are not equipped with one anymore so I would say good luck
BouncingSphinx@reddit
Every car is still equipped with a PARKING brake, which is what so many people refer to as an emergency brake. Sure, it will work in an emergency, but that's not its intended purpose.
The electronic ones just have to be held to apply at speed, they won't apply with a single press or pull unless stopped.
DJFisticuffs@reddit
The EPB is, in fact, designed to be used as an emergency brake and a parking brake, just like an old school handbrake was.
BouncingSphinx@reddit
Still, emergency use is not their primary function. That's why they're called parking brakes in all manuals.
And, yes, I described how to use an electronic brake as an emergency brake.
DJFisticuffs@reddit
The same could be said for an old school mechanical handbrake. The primary purpose was to keep the weight of the car off of the engine and prevent the car from rolling away while parked on an incline (much like today's modern epbs), but it could also be used in an emergency, even though that was not it's primary purpose. People also called those emergency brakes.
JustLurkingPCForums@reddit
I learned something new, I was pretty certain I was screwed with my electronic lever lol.
iamr3d88@reddit
You could still be screwed. I have not found any documentation of HOW it activates at speed. With a hand or foot brake, you can modulate it and only use the pressure you need to not lock them up. If you hold the botton, it may just full activate. Then your rear will lock up. Probably ok for most drivers in a straight line, but add any curve in there, and a lot of them are spinning. So glad both my car from 2015 and 2025 still have handbrakes.
BouncingSphinx@reddit
You can try it in a parking lot. Activate it normally about 10 mph, and nothing should happen; hold it for about a second, and you'll apply and stop. Pretty suddenly, so be mindful if you do.
Only thing is that you can't really modulate the braking force with the electronic brakes like you can a hand brake or foot pedal brake.
proscreations1993@reddit
Ya the electronic shit is a joke. One so expensive when they break. Can't be a good old fashioned hand brake. They should be required in all cars. Simple hand brake with a cable like you said, you can actually control the amount of braking you do with it to a degree. And can lightly pull and release to not fully lock up.
rippledippledapple@reddit
My 2023 model car has a button instead of a lever. I used the lever many times in older cars for fun would feel relatively confident using it in an emergency. I have no clue how the new model with a button would react.
dagofin@reddit
Read the manual. Manufacturers offer digital versions as free downloads
aiden_asphyxia@reddit
If you force it on, I.e. holding the button, it can lock your rear brakes at speed. Be ready to fishtail.
clintj1975@reddit
Check the owner's manual. Some cars use the ABS system wheel speed sensors in conjunction with the E brake to slow the car without locking the rear wheels if you apply it like that.
FencingNerd@reddit
Hold the button, it will force activation. It may take 1-3sec to activate. No modulation though.
Sweet_Speech_9054@reddit
I think they are referring to the brakes not working. ABS is not for brake failures, it’s for loss of traction. if the brakes fail you can try pumping the brakes but I recommend using the E brake/parking brake. If the brakes fail it’s more important to use something that works than try to fix what you already know is broken.
k-mcm@reddit
A brake failure is usually a leak. Pumping the pedal refreshes pressure in the brake lines.
There are some components that help make this work. There's a secondary master pump cylinder in case the primary one fails. There might also be a device to better split hydraulic pressure if one line has burst.
I've had brakes fail in rental cars and trucks. Pumping will get you stopped as long as the fluid reservoir doesn't deplete.
Correct_Manner_9495@reddit
You should try pumping your brakes first but just always keep in mind you have be quick thinking. When they start failing could be because of a hole…..orrrrrrrrrr a whole line fell off etc so it’s a good first try but won’t ALWAYS work
Eagle_Fang135@reddit
Think if you have a hand air pump pumping a full of air. But the tire has a leak. So to try to keep it inflated you continue to pump the air pump to make up for the leaking air.
This is in essence what you are doing. Press the brake once and it falls to the floor (no pressure). Because something failed. So you pump them to get some pressure. But it will still go to the floor so you pump again.
If you have a hand brake you use that. It has a cable to the rear brakes. You pull up with the button pressed in so you can control the brakes and not skid out. The cable has no ABS feature.
Note that this is to get stopped once and then you get it towed.
SpaceCat72@reddit
Step into the brakes, if that fails, the e brake.
series-hybrid@reddit
If air has gotten into the system, pumping the brakes can raise brake pressure, depending on how much air is in there. If pumping the brake pedal several times does not improve the panic braking, start taking actions to avoid a collision, or at least to reduce the damage.
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
brakes do not fail in a normal car during normal operation. it doesn't matter. you are more likely to be hit by lightning while getting eaten by a shark.
Tickles-The-Octopus@reddit
Wrong.....
You obviously have never seen what 2 decades of salt and ice does to metal brake lines. I have seen many many vehicles with brake lines that are so rotted and weak that would ruptured and lose all braking abilities with one hard application and have seen a few dozen which actually did rupture and not work at all.
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
lmao this is not common at all except in your mind.
Tickles-The-Octopus@reddit
I'm a licenced tech with two decades in the industry... Get fucked if you think this isn't common anywhere they salt the roads.
Dzov@reddit
That’s a good point. Maybe he’s never experienced salt corrosion.
Tickles-The-Octopus@reddit
Well, if I were to hazard a guess I would say he is from Hawaii. But other than that in his name I have no other reason to think that. If so he wouldn't have a clue.
Regardless.... To call me wrong for saying so when he has no clue is just stupid..... I don't tell my eye doctor how to do her job because I don't know how the hell those machines and testing equipment works. The dipshit here shouldn't try to call someone wrong when they don't have a clue how the world works outside of their cozy warm home.
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
i've rebuilt, worked on and raced cars for longer than you've probably been alive.
20 year old cars that have not been maintained correctly is not an accurate sample.
brake lines / hoses aren't just popping on random cars.
Tickles-The-Octopus@reddit
You are such an idiot....
You talk about normal cars and say you work on race cars....
I work on normal cars. Brake lines fail, that's a fact.
Get help......
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
you work on rusted out pieces of shit that haven't been properly maintained.
brakes don't just fail for no reason.
Dzov@reddit
Dude. Nothing happens without a reason. All of physics is based on this.
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
yes. and brakes don't just fail on normal cars in normal situations that have been maintained like cars should be.
thank you for proving my point, again.
Tickles-The-Octopus@reddit
I'm done arguing with a moron, have a good day
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
you too broski. we're halfway to the weekend!
Hypnotist30@reddit
It's way more common than you think. Beyond lines rotting brake hoses deteriorate over time as well as wheel cylinders and caliper piston seals. I've driven many many vehicles into my shop with a hydraulic failure in the brake system. Rock Auto isn't listing parts people don't buy. It's far less common now for hard lines than it was 20 years ago because they're usually poly coated. I just did a 2016 Ram 2500 a few weeks ago where a rock got up in there and rubbed through the poly-coated brake line along the frame beside the gas tank. I came to find out that is kind of common with those trucks. Also, 2013-2014 Ford Taurus' would regularly blow the right front brake hose. Idk why. It was always the right front, but it was. They received extra scrutiny during inspections. The rubber didn't appear deteriorated, but frequently you would see the bubble starting to form & catch it before it popped.
From personal experience years ago I blew both rear brake hoses at the same time on an 03 Ford Escape! At least it was only the rear brakes. I also have had 2 or 3 wheel cylinders fail while driving.
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
i am not saying it isn't possible. i am saying it is not common.
everyone arguing with me is talking about 20 year old pieces of shit that have lived in salt water or some random thing where they ran over a raccoon that was a ninja and the raccoon's ninja sword cut the brake lines.
OP doesn't need to worry about what to do "if" the brakes fail on their car. it isn't going to happen.
0% of the "my brakes failed so i hit the thing" claims i have handled actually had brake failures. 100% of them were "i was going too fast and hit the brakes too late" or "i forgot what pedal was what".
Dzov@reddit
I’ve had my brakes fail. (An old Chevy pickup from 77 and you could see the brake fluid mist after the line ruptured). I’m guessing your statistics are way off.
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
a 1977 chevy pickup is not a normal car. it's almost 50 years old. thank you for proving my point.
Dzov@reddit
Did I mention when this happened? And it’s the same basic hydraulic system as every car from that era. Are you stating modern hydraulic lines can’t burst?
shittyhawaiitips@reddit
they can. it isn't common.
Ok_Degree3037@reddit
I had a master cylinder fail on a 2019 jeep compass during my morning commute. I’ve never been so thankful to be in stop and go traffic. A few minutes earlier and I would have been at highway speeds.
ValuableInternal1435@reddit
Definitely false. Granted, it obviously depends on the vehicle, but I've lost brakes 3x in an 04 yukon, 1x in an 05 silverado, 1x in an 02 f250, a couple/few times in a 56 beetle, 1x in an 01 focus, 1x in a 94 f150, 1x in a 97 mountaineer, and probably several other times I can't recall.
If we do the math, that's at least 10 times I personally have experienced brake failure. And I'm not remotely old. Then again I guess I have been (indirectly) struck by lightning, and I've had to use a tourniquet before (on a friend), so when someone says "x is no more likely to happen than getting struck by lightning", and my response is that I have been struck by lightning.
The fact is, brake lines are made of steel, and steel rusts. Brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it attracts moisture, which speeds up rusting exponentially. For people where the roads are salted in the winter, brake lines can also badly rust on the outside which is what happened 2 of the 3x on the yukon, and on the silverado. You also have flexible rubber brake hoses which don't last forever, in my case the 3rd brake failure on the yukon was due to a brake hose rubbing on the sway bar end link due to worn out (one was actually missing) sway bar end link bushings. The f250 had a collapsed brake hose which caused the rear caliper to drag, overheating the piston until it grenaded.
All of this to say, you need to pay attention to your steering, suspension, and braking components on your vehicle. Keep it in good working order. It's important. Brake failure is far more common than you think it is, and is the reason why you shouldn't ever brake at the last second if it's at all avoidable.
NEVER trust hydraulics.
MarkVII88@reddit
Modern braking systems have fail-safe mechanisms that generally prevent a total loss of brake fluid and the ability to activate the front or rear brakes completely. You may have compromised braking ability, but you should still have some level of braking, and so pumping the brakes is still a good idea.
batosai89@reddit
Parking brake definitely works in an emergency. I have made it home multiple times like that. Don’t expect to stop on a dime, take it slow
davidrools@reddit
Serious points in case this happens:
Hypnotist30@reddit
Yes. You're not continually pumping, but you can gain a bit of pedal with a pump or two if a line ruptures. ABS isn't a concern in any part of this scenario.
It's extremely unlikely on any vehicle built after 1966 for sale in the US. They all have dual-circuit hydraulic brakes. So, at least 1/2 of the system should remain functional.
Maddad_666@reddit
I had my brakes fail due to a leak in a non-abs car… pumping helped me glide to a slow stop in some bushes at the end of a highway off ramp. 1-star experience.
ImpliedSlashS@reddit
Is the Flintstones method not an option?
Insertsociallife@reddit
A while ago I saw someone try this on YouTube because they were on fire with no brakes street racing in some crazy turbo Audi thing. It didn't work.
ImpliedSlashS@reddit
It's shown in hundreds of episodes; it has to work.
random_agency@reddit
If ABS fails, sure pump the brake like your having a seizure.
If you feel no feed back from the foot pedal, you have no fuild in the brake line, go to the emergency brakes.
The emergency brake is actually physical cable to you brakes.
So if that's not working, some one wants you dead.
But all is not lost. Transmission braking. Throw the car into a lower gears and let the transmission resistances slow you down. Once you're slow enough. You trash an automatic transmission by throwing it into park.
If you drive a manual aim for the softest target, that isn't alive, you can find once you're slow enough.
Fl4t3ric@reddit
Yes, will still apply.
An abs just interferes while its working, if not its a normal hydraulic brake.
There isnsome nuance to it with some systems. But the pumping still applies
Lower_Kick268@reddit
If you're going really fast you can always shift into neutral too
TheKiddIncident@reddit
Yes, no change.
ABS works by REDUCING pressure to a specific wheel. Not by INCREASING pressure. If you are low on pressure, ABS does nothing at all.
Pumping the brakes can work if you have air in the lines or if your hydraulic system is partially working. Always helpful to try that first.
Equana@reddit
Your brakes have 2 separate systems If one gets a leak, you still have half your brakes. Pumping will hurt your ability to stop.
If you overheat your brakes and boil the brake fluid, on a FWD with a diagonal split system you will have NO brakes. Pumping won't help that either. If the car is RWD with a front to rear split, you will still have 30% of your brakes and pumping won't help.
The E brakes usually suck and people ignore them but they may be your only way to slow the car.
Tossing the automatic into park will result in a broken parking pass and you still won't stop. Toss it into reverse and the car will slow down but don't stomp the gas.
If the training manuals answer is pump the brakes, answer the question pump the brakes.
DFLDrew@reddit
Idk why you would mention shifting without suggesting downshifting to maximize engine braking
0peRightBehindYa@reddit
So ABS is designed to prevent your tires from locking up under braking. On bare, dry pavement, it actually takes a lot of effort to get the ABS to engage. But on slick surfaces, it helps keeps your front tires from locking up and understeering you into the nearest hard object. Pumping your brakes in low traction scenarios is the analog version of ABS.
If brake pressure is lost due to a loss of brake fluid, the pumping isn't being done to stop your tires from locking up, but rather building up hydraulic pressure in the brake lines that are still functional in order to bring the vehicle safely to a stop. Having had a brake line blow out on me while driving, I can tell you it's a butthole puckering experience and you really don't have a lot of time to think about what to do.
IllMasterpiece5610@reddit
Yes. And downshift and use the e-brake (with your thumb on the button) while doing that. Also look for bushes or something soft to glance off of to bleed speed.
amanke74@reddit
My buddy has a Toyota forklift that is old, it leaks brake fluid. To stop the forklift, you have to pump the brake pedal constantly to stop it. No abs, just master cylinder.
New_Line4049@reddit
Its a worth a shot. Itll either work and get you out of a shitty situation, or it wont and your no worse off for having tried it. Personally Id go fot changing down and engine braking before trying the hand brake. Much less likely to cause you to loose control.
gutentight69420@reddit
If your brakes completely fail, it is probably due to a hydraulic leak. The pedal goes to the floor and at that point it's doing nothing to stop the vehicle. If you pump the pedal, it allows the master cylinder to pull in more fluid from the reservoir. This literally works like a pump and moves more fluid into the brake line with each stroke. This can provide some brake pressure, but you are fighting against the leak, of course. But it's better than no brakes at all.
I think this scenario is unlikely since all modern brake systems are redundant. Having both systems fail simultaneously would be an incredible feat of bad luck. Even if it did happen, I think a better response from the driver would be to use the emergency brake. It's called that for a reason!
maldoricfcatr@reddit
I guess it depends. I had a uncle with a cadillac. The bad master cylinder was masked by the robust ABS system in the car. Pedal went all the way to the floor. But, the car stopped ok with maybe longer braking distance. Told him I suspect master cylinder but have a shop look at it.
ChemistRemote7182@reddit
I had my LGT wagon serviced at a Subaru dealer, they asked if I wanted to do the brake fluid as well. It had been like 5 years so I agreed. They released it back to me without bleeding the brakes. I drove it some miles and then some miles back, being a stick helped, but yes, I was pumping the brake pedal to prime the brake system with pressure that was then bleeding back off quickly. I called them while driving to bitch them out/ let them know I am on my way back, got my wagon back to them, and they proceeded to immediately crash my wagon on lot. Good job dealership! Not sure what the damage was to the new car they hit, but they replaced my headlight module and painted my front bumper to make it up to me. So yes, you can try p[umping for pressure, engine braking is definitely your friend, and use the hand brake.
I do not know if you could limp a modern car with a CVT and a electronic parking brake in the same way.
aipac125@reddit
Had this happen on a car with leaking brakes. Had to pump the brakes to stop. A straight stomp wouldn't slow down the car.
MrBojingles1989@reddit
Yes you should still try but be aware even if you can build up some pressure its most likely only the front or only the rear working
zylpher@reddit
Slam that bitch into park if it's an auto. The repair to the transmission, if needed, will probably be less over the years compared to insurance rates when and if you hit someone.
I've never owned a car that has an emergency brake. But I've had plenty that have parking brakes, and I don't trust them.