Americans who didn’t grow up around immigrant communities genuinely cannot conceptualize how much America’s soft power has collapsed
Posted by pichipichipoco@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 48 comments
Not even sure this is the right subreddit for this, but it’s something that’s been on my mind every single time I go back home.
I honestly think Americans who don’t come from immigrant communities, or who are far removed from their family’s immigrant background, genuinely cannot conceptualize how much America’s soft power has collapsed in certain parts of the world. And I don’t mean “soft power” in the geopolitical or diplomatic sense, I mean the image of American life itself.
I come from a country and culture where the American way of life and the “American Dream” were put on an almost vaulted pedestal. Even people who strongly disliked U.S. foreign policy or American intervention abroad still often deeply admired the idea of life in America (the lifestyle, the opportunity, the modernity, the feeling that life there was bigger, freer, more full of possibility). Even if that was an innaccurate understanding, that was the way people believed it would be to live there.
As a kid, literally every kid talked about wanting to live in America one day. If someone made it to America, people genuinely revered them for it. It was “the dream” in a very real sense, and not just in my country either. I saw this same attitude in a lot of places I visited as a young person.
That’s the part I think a lot of Americans without immigrant roots (that they identify with or have connections to still) cannot fully grasp because they never saw how intense that mythology once was.
The shift is so insane from then to now!!
Nobody I come across talks about the U.S. that way anymore. Nobody. Even people living in poverty often talk about America now with a “look what they’ve done to themselves” attitude. There is absolutely no idealized version of American life. The idea of moving there is discussed almost entirely in practical or transactional terms now. “I’d only go for a few years to make money so I can come back.” “I’d rather go to X country instead.” “I hear they slave until they die.”
I’m not saying this is a good or bad thing. But I think a lot of Americans underestimate how much U.S. cultural dominance rested on the rest of the world seeing American life itself as aspirational, even when they disliked the U.S. politically.
A kind in threadbare clothes in the countryside spoke to me about how sorry he was for kids in the US. He heard they were idiots. I was a countryside kid in threadbare clothes once! I could never have imagined this future!
BigJobsBigJobs@reddit
We USAmericans have always been like this, though. People are "educated" to be pig-ignorant and proud of it, home-schooled into savagery and bigotry.
The mask is off. The USAmerica they had seen in the past is a Potemkin village - a pretty fake front to cover up rot and decay. From Disneyland to Bergen-Belsen in a matter of months.
debtXyzLlc@reddit
Go visit the refugee camps in Panama, Somalia and Lebanon. Ask them where they would prefer to live. USA wins.
Charming_Slip8060@reddit
Classic response from the myopic Maga perspective. "Take a person being tortured, starved, enslaved, raped, or otherwise abused and ask them whether they prefer their circumstances or life in another country (primarily the US because, up until recently, the chances of gaining entry here were better than most other developed countries), and viola! Proof that "we're number one!"
abelabelabel@reddit
Kids today will start learning that the thing to do - is leave. Good for them.
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CannyGardener@reddit
This is absolutely pertinent. Please do not remove.
Human-ish514@reddit
Since they went ahead and removed it, what was pertinent?
CannyGardener@reddit
The mods had flagged the whole post for removal, saying it was unrelated to collapse. I felt otherwise, so I said to please not remove it. Looks like the mods removed their removal note ;)
keinezeit44@reddit
Seconding this.
Venat14@reddit
As an American, I've completely lost all respect for America and most Americans. I honestly don't think that respect can ever been earned back either. The exceptionalism I've been taught my whole life was a giant lie. America is not exceptional. It's just a corrupt country with poorly educated populace and lots of flashy materialism.
If been desperate to leave the US for awhile now, but I unfortunately am not in a career that can really transfer anywhere and I'm not rich.
The American Dream is definitely dead and unless you live in the 3rd world, America is not an improvement over much of the world anymore.
atxbikenbus@reddit
Americans, for the most part don't understand soft power. The collapse of our influence on the world stage has gone largely unnoticed at home. Its wild to me that people don't understand how much effort it took to be in the position we (were) just a few years ago. Our history and efforts have all been cashed in, literally, by our leaders and half this country thinks that's winning. It's a little dated but Chalmers Johnson wrote a book on soft power that is still relevant today.
theraiden@reddit
I agree. Maybe I would say Americans who don’t live abroad. I went back to my home country and my friends all have kids ready to enter colleges and no one - not one wanted to send their kid to the US for college. And international students tend to pay full price. US colleges and universities will feel this repercussion for years to come.
PM_ME_YOUR_LEFT_IRIS@reddit
Americans, for the most part, don’t benefit from soft power in any tangible way. Working class Americans aren’t able to cash in on a foreign population that’s propagandized to see the US as a land of opportunity. The beneficiaries of soft power are oligarchs, who leverage those dreams for cheap labor and higher rents.
ArtShare@reddit
Tell that to all the tourist destinations in America that had lots of money flowing in from foreign tourists. Lots of good ole regular Americans work in these areas.
krazykat357@reddit
Despite my personal dislike for politicians, especially on the Right, at least our past leaders had the intelligence and training on how to Realpolitik and wield power. Now? Petulant children, without strategy or foresight, just ripping out as much wealth as possible before the inevitable.
lavapig_love@reddit
I think it will take decades for reality to sink in.
The idea of America is that everyone has a say and everyone has a vote and everyone gets equality and due process under the law. If that dream dies. the expectation of cultural concepts like racism and misogyny becomes normal and standard everywhere. Because if America failed. well then nothing they stood for was worth it. right? Just weakness.
Ancient_Weakness699@reddit
We don't think of you at all.
Icy-Bandicoot-8738@reddit
My family moved here from Turkey while I was in the early teens. I visit family there often. I can vouch that envying the life of a normal American is mostly dead.
Sufficient_Cause1208@reddit
Interestingly enough my reference to this is a Turkish lady and her daughter. She came young and I assume turkey was undeveloped compared to now because her kids say how much turkey is nicer than many parts of America now
Icy-Bandicoot-8738@reddit
Turkey has its problems for sure, but the US is no longer seen as the solution, the ideal place. Questions I get are "what went wrong? How did this happen to you?
Aggravating-Pound598@reddit
Yeah- behind the Disney facade is an evil that quite literally threatens to destroy the planet.
chattykatdy54@reddit
So their imaginary pedestal is no longer there. Good. Maybe they’ll stop wanting the US to be their military also.
uwgal@reddit
As a Canadian, I absolutely concur with you. I can tell you that people speak of Americans with pity and also with rage.many of my peers both want to see America get its comeuppance but also see good things happen for its children and its poverty stricken. My new phrase, which I think speaks to the situation quite clearly is that I hope each American has the day that they voted for. Those who voted for peace, cooperation, and inclusivity? Hopefully they get the day that they voted for. Those who voted for Trump and the Republican Party,may they have all of the inner turmoil, suffering and eventual repentance of the significant errors of their ways. I look forward to seeing those stories on platforms that celebrate leopards eating people’s faces.
CliftonForce@reddit
And I still encounter MAGA who are convinced that all Canada is jealous of the American Healthcare system and desperately want to switch to it. But the Evil Socialism of the Canadian government won't allow it....
jackass_mcgee@reddit
i want to switch to the danish model not full privatization.
also, my only offered treatment for four years of being disabled by long covid isn't the government seeing me as a walking organ donor and only offering euthanesia as treatment.
the grave isn't valid healthcare.
Human-ish514@reddit
A lukewarm take of mine is that if you don't have access to effective preventative medical care, you should take yourself off any organ donation list.
Chances are good your organs will be meh by the time you die without proper care, and it prevents that morbid incentive for your country to neglect you until it's organ harvesting time.
lalawellnofine@reddit
Hell I know Canadians in border towns who believe this. It's wild.
Several_Initiative_2@reddit
Probably most Americans wouldn't put it in terms of soft power, but they would absolutely recognize the collapse of the image of America. I'm 40. Some version of the American Dream was still being sold in my childhood. Now it's the European dream. Pretty much everyone thinks things are rigged, work culture is a nightmare, and the medical system destroys lives.
busted_maracas@reddit
41 here, yep. We were that cusp generation that had an idealized childhood filled with hopes and dreams, and watched it collapse in real time.
PM_ME_YOUR_LEFT_IRIS@reddit
My congratulations to immigrant communities for catching up on the status of America, I guess. Only took 50 or so years.
_coffeeblack_@reddit
i’m american born and now an immigrant elsewhere. fuck that shithole
Eve_O@reddit
"The American Dream" was mostly a veneer of propaganda to begin with, so I guess people are waking up from the illusion now that it has been largely stripped away?
Like Carlin indicated in his comedy 30+ years ago, "It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe in it."
PM_ME_YOUR_LEFT_IRIS@reddit
Yeah… I read things like this and my kneejerk reaction as an American is who gives a shit? You finally realized that the propaganda fed to the world at large was propaganda. The majority of working class people in the US for the last few decades has been well aware of this fact. Nobody here really cares if people revere the American Dream because it’s been dead to Americans since the turn of the millennium, at least.
WheredoesithurtRA@reddit
I think a lot of people also overestimate how easy it is to come to America and just survive here.
lowrads@reddit
I see nothing wrong with that. Anyone who aspired to join the melting pot of America only ever wanted to take possession of other people's time. Any desire to be fetted and waited upon in adulthood is a form of pathology.
Perhaps given enough time, all the world's major conurbations will become amalgamations of culture, rather than the sterile absence of any, and none will really be exceptional.
Genuinelytricked@reddit
There are some that understand. I am fully aware that conservatives conflating soft power with weakness seriously fucked us over. That the Hollywood propaganda machine that screams how awesome americans are can’t keep up with the simple videos people make with their phone where children are killed in schools and police brutally beat peaceful protestors. That the actions of the US have finally crossed a line where countries can no longer excuse their bullshit. And how they are now looking back at what was excused before because ‘Murrica and rethinking things.
Ornery_Day_6483@reddit
Maybe we don’t need to be powerful or softly powerful anymore and we can settle down to being an actual country rather than the world’s idol or policeman, like we were at the turn of the 20th century.
Own_Appointment_8410@reddit
Children only see the good side. When I discovered that the United States is cold for 8 months of the year and the bully who beats up others at school isn't punished, but the adult who squats outside the crosswalk is, I lost my admiration.
Firebreeze@reddit
This is fantasy
Practical_Hippo6289@reddit
America has jumped the shark.
BusyBanana4205@reddit
We’re watching in real time as our leaders in Washington, instep with our leaders on wallstreet, rob us blind while building the surveillance and law enforcement infrastructure to control the coming revolt.
The most laughable part of all of this is destroying ourselves, and allowing greed and perversions bastardize the human experience and collapse everything, wasn’t a tragedy, a calamity, or a natural disaster. It was a deliberate choice. We chose to lose our soft power, while robbing ourselves of a future. It’s lunacy.
FlashyHeight9323@reddit
Just to play advocate. The reason it was given up was because because corporate digital power works just as well when you don’t need the people to like you. For the current admin, that’s the preferred position. Stay home, our algorithms with dumb down your kids from a distance.
Ababajanoi@reddit
It's actually a good thing, collapsewise, that the American Dream is dying, as its epistemic and cosmogony are in my opinion a major factor in collapse.
WildFlemima@reddit
The important part is making sure a new high-consumption aspirational society doesn't replace it, but I think that's already happening.
bleenken@reddit
I think this sub is kind of right for this. But your observation is very interesting! r/trueanon might be a sub where there would be more people that would join in on the discussion and share similar observations (it’s a podcast sub, but mostly it’s non-podcast posts and discussions).
Serimnir@reddit
They have a podcast now?
Ok_Role_6215@reddit
It's not "collapsed", it is GONE.
Foxy_Traine@reddit
I think you are absolutely right and it will be fascinating to watch how this impacts the rest of the world in the coming years. I will say though, that Americans are also painfully aware of how dramatically America's cultural/social standing has dropped especially in recent years. Maybe we don't have direct ties to people who believed in the "American Dream" like immigrants, but WE BELIEVED in the American dream and now we see that it is dead!
It's heartbreaking to watch in real time. I live in Europe now and I feel like I "got out" in time to find my own version of the dream. My quality of life and security are so much higher living abroad. I hate that I had to move here to have a peaceful life, and it's painful watching my friends and family suffer back home. We had so much power, so much wealth, and we let the people running the country strip us of our dignity and rob us blind so the rich could get richer. Now we work for them. It's so sad.