Tony Blair tells Starmer and rivals: abandon net zero and move closer to Trump | Labour
Posted by kwentongskyblue@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 64 comments
debasing_the_coinage@reddit
At least George Bush had the good sense to just fuck off and never be heard from again. This particular mass murderer, though, is like herpes. Here's a winning campaign platform: Blair gets a one-way ticket to St Helena.
DerCatrix@reddit
Iirc Bush feels bad about it all and has been doing paintings for veterans
DerCatrix@reddit
Not that that’s enough, just that he isn’t going around championing imperialism like his former cohorts
GrumpyOik@reddit
I hear the Hague is nice at this time of the year.
_-__-____-__-_@reddit
It's fucking hot we're having a heatwave and we have no ac
Max_Trollbot_@reddit
The world needs a more volcano-based system of governance
soulsteela@reddit
Scientology?
Max_Trollbot_@reddit
More like Joe vs.
Hesitation-Marx@reddit
Pele tested, Pele approved
clone-borg@reddit
defenistration seems to work well in certain parts of the world...
Private_HughMan@reddit
I have a question: why does anybody care what this old leather chair has to say?
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Old Leatherface here made sure his party was forever plagued with neoliberalism the effects of which produced Starmer and are causing historical losses for labour. In his infinite and timeless wisdom he's suggesting more plague to ensure the future of labour which is heading for the abyss in any case. It's hilarious how much harm this person has done to UK politics.
Sari_sendika_siken@reddit
What happened to corbyn btw? He was about to form a new party no?
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Crashed and burned before it even got a name. From all I read, I got the feeling that he's not very interested in leading anything and delegated waaay too much to his aids and they fucked shit up with Sultana.
JKnumber1hater@reddit
The party was called “Your Party” as a temporary name, before they decided on a proper one at a party congress. The name they decided on was … Your Party.
There was a bunch of drama between Corbyn’s faction and Zara Sultana’s faction. Corbyn’s faction seemed to just want to do Corbyn Labour again, and a bunch of weird transphobes and slumlords were high up in the party. Zara clearly wanted to be much more progressive.
Then Corbyn was elected to be the leader. Even though he’s quite old and clearly not suited to be a leader, we saw how he was incapable of fending off the bullshit antisemitism allegations when he was Labour leader, and then how he failed to stop himself being couped.
Your Party was DoA.
HatOfFlavour@reddit
Yeah Corbyn seems to be the only part of Your Party that can gain a following but seems mystified with what to do with it and seems incapable of leadership or even making a decision. I don't know how much if that is anti Corbyn propaganda that's finally getting to me or how much he's just a socialist backbencher out of his depth.
blob8543@reddit
We'll have to see what his next move is now that the Greens are strong. I don't expect him to give up just yet.
JKnumber1hater@reddit
Personally I think he’s done. He can be a perfectly fine backbench MP, occasionally making good speeches to the half a dozen MPs who bothered to show to work that day, and also genuinely doing good work for the people in his constituency, but I think his days of being a significant political figure are over or nearly over.
blob8543@reddit
I'd like to see him as part of the Greens or form an alliance with them if he keeps YP alive.
Hesitation-Marx@reddit
That’s a pity.
GothicGolem29@reddit
I mean neoliberalism is hardly the reason labours losing when the party leading the polls are reform
blob8543@reddit
The reason they're losing is 1) Starmer is a terrible leader, 2) Labour are trying to be right wing but right wing voters ignore them and go for the real deal.
ThePromise110@reddit
Labour has been so captured by Capital that it should die an ignominious death regardless. The world desperately needs political parties that are aiming to euthanize this profit-seeking, rentier nightmare.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
This is just how it all works, you do the establishment's bidding (and get very rich off of it) and then you get to spend the rest of your career being paid very highly to continually spew this shite which is shoved down people's throats by a compliant media environment
There's never any contrition because the people saying this stuff don't actually believe it, they just want us to believe it so they can make money for them and their interests
Soepkip43@reddit
But Tony has the chance to be made viceroy to oversee the palestinians in name of the bored of peace.
Flaksim@reddit
Landslide victory, then next election cycle they can go back saying they executed 100% of what they set out to do. Can't fail.
Hesitation-Marx@reddit
Send him to mop floors in an Ebola ward in the DRC. May as well make some use of him.
Mop optional.
bonesrentalagency@reddit
I think that cave where those Thai kids got stuck would be a better place for his retirement
bluecheese2040@reddit
Never thought I'd agree with this evil man....but on net zero...the tiple lock...the idea that we can keep spending on welfare as we are he is totally right.
The net zero agenda will bankrupt us...make our energy ludicrously expensive and the world will move on.
Virtue signalling doesn't build a long term economy.
Unfortunately we've allowed children to run the economy for too long.
travistravis@reddit
Renewables are now cheaper than fossil fuels.
ThePromise110@reddit
Liberals are some of the most feckless, useless clowns the world has ever seen and end up being little more than precursors to fascism. But Neoliberals are just cryptofascists in one of the most shoddy political disguises ever conceived.
Grantmitch1@reddit
Tony Blair promoted some of the most authoritarian legislation in the UK's recent history, including long term detention without trial, and we are calling him a liberal?
ThePromise110@reddit
He's a Neoliberal for sure, which is what my comment is clearly implying, but all Neoliberals are also Capital L Liberals, which is just a short hand for capitalists of any stripe or variety, and what I was referring to when I said "Liberal." Labour are Liberals. The Tories are Liberals. The GOP are Liberals. The Democrats are Liberals. Even SocDems are Liberals.
Grantmitch1@reddit
Defining liberalism as capitalism... how very Marxist of you.
The problem with this sort of approach, aside from the fact that it excludes extremely well known Liberals who advocated for alternative economic arrangements (such as cooperatives and transition to market socialism), by categorising so many distinctly different groups as Liberal it loses any analytical value.
ThePromise110@reddit
I'm an anarchist, actually, but in this case it's the same difference. In most circumstances don't really need an analytical framework beyond the question, "Do you seek to uphold or dismantle capitalism?" If I was sparring with a Marxist there would be differences worth defining and nuances worth sussing out, but I'm not, am I? I'm talking to a Liberal: someone who doesn't actively seek to dismantle capitalism as a system of ownership, production, and the hierarchies within it. Hell, I'm not even opposed to mutualism/market anarchism in principle, but that's not what we're talking about either. I lump all Liberals together and dismiss them out of hand because they're all equally useless.
If you actually want to talk about cooperatives then we can do that, because I'm a syndicalist anarchist first and foremost if you forced me to put on a specific hat. Or if you want to talk about markets I'm not opposed to that either. Again, market anarchists/mutualists exist and are taken perfectly seriously. But the real question that rests at the core of those two issues is whether or not you are trying to obliterate capitalism as a system of private property, hierarchy, imperialism, and rent-seeking, because markets and cooperatives are no means anathema to that goal, but if you're pursuing those projects outside the specific backdrop of ending capitalism then yes, you're still a Liberal.
Grantmitch1@reddit
This is where you would be incorrect. I very much follow John Stuart Mill (noted Liberal) and others on this question, which I can probably best summarise as: why would you want to liberate yourself, only to subjugate yourself to a capitalist boss at work?
No, I very much favour a transition toward cooperative models of business ownership and ultimately, something resembling market socialism.
Which I think is unfortunate, as it ignores the work of many great Liberals.
First and foremost, I am very much a Liberal and at no point have I nor do I deny that. My view is a market oriented socialism is a natural bedfellow of liberalism in the liberation of the individual. I am, as many/most Liberals are, sceptical of an overly powerful state and believe that power should be distributed as widely as possible, within the hands of individuals and communities. Cooperative models of ownership, broadly conceived, fits within that socio-political goal quite nicely.
Taniwha_NZ@reddit
Er, the term 'liberal' originally meant someone who supported liberalising trade and other economic policies. In other words, what you'd today call a capitalist.
Haven't you ever wondered why 'neoliberal' contains the word 'liberal'? They are the 'new liberals', in other words new capitalists.
America is the only country where they started using 'liberal' to mean progressive and it's ended up confusing the whole world.
In Australia the 'Liberal' party is the free-trade right-wing party. Same for many other parties around the world.
So the person you replied to is technically correct, even if it sounds weird. And it's about as far from marxist thought as you could get.
Kimantha_Allerdings@reddit
No, it’s not true that liberalism originally only referred to economics. Economics was a big thrust of Adam Smith’s work on liberalism, but the core was about individual liberty. For example, the argument in The Wealth Of Nations for state-funded education was not economic
The first political group to dub themselves liberals, the Librales, were also concerned with civil rights - things like a free press and free speech, equality before the law, and religious freedom. These were much more foundational than any economic ideas or policies, let alone the idea of a free market
And the foundational text of liberalism is unquestionably John Stuart Mill & Harriet Taylor’s On Liberty. There is no reasonable argument by which that cannot be described as a progressive text. It’s still mostly uncontroversially considered a progressive text
It’s impossible to have a political movement which doesn’t involve economics, but the core of liberalism has always been the idea of the individual as the most important thing. In his book How To Be A Liberal (highly recommended, if you’re interested in the history of liberalism), Ian Dunt places Rene Descartes’ “I think therefore I am” as the idea that liberalism developed out of - the idea of stripping everything down, interrogating all authority, and rebuilding your framework with the individual as its base. And if you’re placing the individual at the centre of everything, then individual rights inevitably also become central
Grantmitch1@reddit
You can have liberal markets and free trade without capitalism. And even the earliest liberal writers were not exclusively commenting on free trade, but also limited government, liberties and freedoms, etc.
Neoliberalism might be a fork of liberalism but it does not define it.
I didn't use the word progressive for a reason. Liberalism, as above, is not just about trade, but also about freedoms and liberties, going back to the earliest writers.
Can't wait for you to talk to me about the wonders of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
From the perspective that liberalism is about limited government, freedoms and liberties, etc., then no...
MuammarGaddafii@reddit
I think you need to learn the not American definition of liberalism
Grantmitch1@reddit
I am a Brit and I define Liberalism by reference to the English tradition of liberalism, going back centuries. But thanks for playing.
Sari_sendika_siken@reddit
Yup, sounds like what a neo-liberal would do.
wet_suit_one@reddit
I just learned today that a species of mammal native to my jurisdiction has now more or less expanded its range to my city.
20 years ago, when it first was observed here, it couldn't survive the winters here. Now, or very soon, it will be able to so.
This fact has a direct relationship to the discussion of this article.
I wonder what other changes I'll see over the remainder of my life and the changes my children will see.
It's gonna be a hell of a ride watching our world burn in the fires of our monumental stupidity and greed.
Kimantha_Allerdings@reddit
Fun fact: the things Blair is suggesting the Labour party should do coincide - by sheer coincidence, I’m sure - with the things his company have a financial stake in. For example, he has close ties with Saudi Arabia. No connection to suddenly telling everybody that oil is wonderful and net zero is for squares and nerds. None whatsoever
blob8543@reddit
A reminder that this guy is part of the Board of Peace in case anyone doesn't know.
At some point the Labour Party is going to put this guy in his place. He was a good PM but he has been useless for years now. He is constantly making statements that are little more than attacks on Labour and contradict everything the party is about. No one really listens to him but the media give plenty of coverage to each of his opinions.
ph4ge_@reddit
Jesus Christ, either you want to be in the EU because of shared believes and strategic and economic interests, or you don't. What the fuck does he think there is to negotiate? It's a rules based club, they know what it takes to join.
_DrDigital_@reddit
No, no, no, everyone else gets the same rules. UK is mama's special boy and must get only the best.
OrSomeSuch@reddit
UK had the best possible deal that nobody else could dream of and they threw it away and spat in the EU's face
Exostrike@reddit
He wants the UK to be in a position to be able to negotiate opt-outs and then use it's weight to dictate the rules that the club works on, persubly to shift the block further to American style Laissez-faire capitalism on the grounds the current rules hurt it's economy.
Karlaaz@reddit
What makes it so funny, that UK almost had the exact same thing before Brexit. It's almost as they had a final word and could bend the rules to their direction. And decided to throw that away for lolz.
hillbilly-edgy@reddit
The same guy that dragged the UK into US’s Republican lead shitty war in Iraq and Libya now giving more pro-Republican advice. Who would shave thought
No_Introduction_3542@reddit
So, he is basically saying move to the right. Seems like completely the opposite of what Labour should do. Why would anyone in their right mind recommend getting closer to Trump?
humildemarichongo@reddit
And in my view, that's a key complaint about Starmer already, that he is moving right to try and bring people back from Reform, as opposed to solidifying the left.
Even if a Reform voter were to drift left, there's the Tories for them in between Reform and Labour. Pandering to the wrong masses, both politically and strategically.
And one of the very few things I think Starmer has done well is mostly keep the UK out of the Iran mess, militarily, and kept Trump at arms length without a complete breakdown of relations. Don't trust this young upstart, Blair.
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Because for now, the Torries are absent. He wants for Labour to become Torries 2.0. A process that started during his time in office he now wants to see finished.
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
I wish you and your family safety from the foreign war criminals and the ruthless governance who are doing their best to fend off the aforementioned war criminals.
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
Exactly. Labour can't "out right" the likes of reform and restore. Dafuq is he on?! Cunt needs to be tried for war crimes.
aurumtt@reddit
In 2026 even. Every normal thinking person knows he's a pedophile. Blair is as demented as donny it seems
Rain_On@reddit
He got into power by lurching Labour to the right. It's all he knows.
heckin_miraculous@reddit
Because they like money, and they think they're smart enough to avoid the consequences.
ultimate_placeholder@reddit
Most Britons think Labour isn't doing enough on climate than the reverse, not sure why Blair thinks abandoning one of the only issues Labour has been pretty good and popular in is a winning strategy, especially when climate change is an existential threat and abandoning climate policy is just a big "fuck you" to the youth.
t0xic_sh0t@reddit
I have a special champagne just waiting in the cooler.
Matshelge@reddit
Should we not all just stop taking advice from the Boomer Generation? They don't understand the modern environment and advise on ancient information that no longer works?
Lazy-Field-1116@reddit
Whole Of UK Tell Blair: Get Tae Fuck
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