Daniel Owen's 5090 Connector Burned Out After 15 Months
Posted by Remote_Action_2956@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 85 comments
Posted by Remote_Action_2956@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 85 comments
C-Alucard231@reddit
weird question, but does anyone know if anyone has just de-soldered the connection and stripped the connectors of the power cables and just hardwired the thing?
mmaster23@reddit
I believe some of the issue is that there is an amp inbalance between the pins. So that overloads one or multiple pins in the connector. It can still happen on the psu side unless you also hardwire that one as well. And even then, you're still not completely out of the woods yet.
It's a shit product from a company that never really cared to begin with.
C-Alucard231@reddit
jeesh what a shit show of a product.
jocnews@reddit
Expensive recall is probably the only thing that could teach Nvidia some engineering humility. Seem they aren't getting punished anytime soon though.
SeraphicalChaos@reddit
Doubt it in the USA. They've gotten really friendly with this administration. China's off the list thanks to that. Maybe the EU?
Gamers (consumers) got lumped together with businesses (commercial) on their last earnings call. We were a line item, in a line item at the bottom of their presentation. Even if there was willingness... even if every gamer on the planet decided to boycott... it wouldn't mean jack shit to Nvidia since we make up like less then 5% of their total revenue at the moment.
jocnews@reddit
They WOULD react if it meant losing significant revenue. They act like the gaming business doesn't matter because that's a common behaviour pattern in stock-traded companies: emphasise the trendy, flashy growth potential parts of your company to investors, pretend or dis "legacy" od and boring stuff, which currently is gaming (old and busted).
It may mean that the "old and busted" divisons get a bit less love in the organitation, but that doesn't mean they don't actually care if they bring in money. And the gaming does. If Nvidia really got so arrogant they decided to just abandon gamin GPUs, it would look completely different and actually, if that was the case, they might ironically not push this 12V-2x6 nonsense and be okay with just using the old boring connectors.
If you look a the GeForce business from sales and marekting perspective, they go as hard as ever. DLSS 5, game bundles and sponsorships. And they keep ordering a lot of PR article content at websites.
SJGucky@reddit
Gaming does bring 1-2 billion, but times are hard everywhere in the hardware buisness and numbers are down 30-50%.
Method__Man@reddit
They have insane levels of power at the government level, and they're in bed with everybody now. I'm sure they would just throw a few million dollars in someone's bank account and it would go away.
Vocalifir@reddit
"Testing out a bunch of GPU's"
He didnt plug it in right the last time
Method__Man@reddit
Even if that's true, there's no excuse for this to burn out. I do hardware testing as well, and I've never had a single eight PCI issue in decades. And that's with plugging and unplugging them on a habitual basis.
Vocalifir@reddit
I get it. its not the best design. Just every time one of these things burn out everyone loses their fucking mind, we have the conversation. Things have a failure rate. If we announce every single one of course its going to look like a big issue. We dont hear about the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of these connectors that work just fine. And on top of that, we have no idea what exactly this chucklefuck did that may have contributed to the failure. but that doesnt get clicks
Marble_Wraith@reddit
Can we all just agree the connector is shit and move on?
For the 6000 series lets get back to good ol' 8 pins
constantlymat@reddit
The connector may be flawed but in case of the 5090 it's nvidia's decision to use it with a piss-poor safety margin which is the primary issue.
I guarantee you, if you used a standard 8pin power cable with the same safety margins as the 12V-2x6 on a 5090, you'd see more burning connectors, too.
mennydrives@reddit
I don't get how NVidia makes this card selling for double MSRP with likely >50% margin at MSRP and can't load balance the power pins.
I also don't get how not a single PSU maker or cable designer can find a way to account for this. Is there not a market for a cable extension that cuts or throttles power if a wire sees a voltage drop form heating up?
hackenclaw@reddit
They dont wanna do it to save bucks,
but they also DONT ALLOW AIB to do it. NO load balancing from AIB, No two 12v-2x6 pin to spread the load. Thats our problem with nvvidia.
I dont get it, why cant they just open it up let the AIB cook a better build dGPU.
jocnews@reddit
Probably some control/power freaking, "asserting dominance" "power moves". It sounds stupid but the managment/marketing guys probably believe such stuff ultimately give companies more influence and power to make the users bind to their will. And they are probably right.
They don't go back on their bad decisions or user-hostile decisions because then users are less likely to resist such stuff in the future, for example.
king_of_the_potato_p@reddit
Easy
The majority of xx90 buyers buy a new one as they release, most of the cards should last 3-5 years before load failure.
While build in safety/durability when their target demo will swap it before it sets their house on fire.
After that, their won’t be enough for a class action suit, only way it would happen is if a corporation with enough money sues nvidia. Which nvidia will just settle out of court for or tie until the other side runs out of money.
So long as no one dies they can keep doing it, it’s nvidias “ford pinto” moment.
Oxflu@reddit
Yeah, i felt bad for 4090 and 5090 buyers at first. But now, everyone knows and is buying it anyway. If those guys stopped buying it would get fixed. But they're still gobbling them up at 3600 dollars. Now, it's no one's fault but their own.
FlyingBishop@reddit
The 5090 is pretty dangerously overclocked; it's pretty intrinsic to the design. This is a bit like complaining that a supercar is high-maintenance. If you're going ot get a 5090, you shouldn't be the sort of person who is concerned about having to replace your entire overpriced PC, it's just that kind of device.
Oxflu@reddit
They could have easily made the card to use as many 8 pin connections as necessary. They haven't been punished by consumers though, nor do consumers even make up much of their new business model. It's probably here to stay. I guess if you have enough money to buy these you should be buying extended warranty.
Given that they can't shrink the nodes much more, it's safe to assume next gen cards will be pulling similar loads. They'll claim to have fixed it and they'll sell thousands of them before the first review even gets to test the claim.
king_of_the_potato_p@reddit
That and one contact for all the wires instead of 1 contact per every 2 in the vrm scheme.
bad1o8o@reddit
lots of people use the card with an adapter to 8pin but i have yet to see that side fail
cdoublejj@reddit
the old connector was fine. i always thought it was ignorant when bitched back in the day that there was no innovation on connectors. what? yall want rectangle tire and wheels next?
leops1984@reddit
The 8 pin connector can’t deal with the increasingly high power demands of modern high end GPUs. By the end of its lifespan you had triple 8-pin cards that were always a PITA to connect.
There was a need for a higher power connector, the problem with 12VHPWR is it was done extremely poorly.
king_of_the_potato_p@reddit
I have a 3x 8 pin card, there’s nothing difficult or a pain about connecting it…
Cute-Pomegranate-966@reddit
I dislike needing that many cables and imo there IS a demand for a single high wattage connector. This just isn't the one.
Reggitor360@reddit
Thats a lie.
A 16AWG 8 Pin can carry around 350W safely, up to 400-ish Watt in a peak.
Two 16AWGs can carry more wattage than the dogshit 12V-6x2.
http://jongerow.com/PCIe/index.html
ButterFlyPaperCut@reddit
Yeah my 7900xtx uses two 8pins
Skazzy3@reddit
If only there was a similar enough connector that can handle much more power and was already an ATX standard. Like an ATX12V connector.
Hmm.
toalv@reddit
It cracks me up that the largest power connector with the most pins in a modern system carries... about 50W.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
ATX12VO exists. Too bad luddites rejected it.
annaheim@reddit
this and that having to pay $2k usd just for this to burn out is absurd to me. I'll probably hold on to my 3080ti until there's a much better solution than this.
Remote_Action_2956@reddit (OP)
Sadly they're going for around $4k new now.
swaskowi@reddit
You wish you could pay 2k usd for it. It's hardly ever availible at msrp.
annaheim@reddit
that's an even better deterrent for upgrading 😅
Yoghurt42@reddit
Will there ever be a 6000 series though? They're making like 98% of their revenue with data center cards.
pythonic_dude@reddit
We did move on. Msi and thermal grizzly offer per pin monitoring/ocp, asrock corsair and gigabyte have thermal monitoring, asus have trust me bro vibes, and there's definitely more third party solutions I'm not aware of. Multitrillion company doesn't care, the problem of their making was successfully pushed onto others to solve. It's nice that we don't put the blame for melting connector on the consumers anymore, but that's about as much you can do until there's an alternative to buy from China maybe in a decade if we're lucky.
gajodavenida@reddit
Their insistence on the shitty 12vhpwr has to be planned obsolescence.
Limited_Distractions@reddit
Imagine spending $2500 on something and having one of the first suggestions as to why part of it burned out be "you probably used the only power connector it has too much"
So either it's the micro-hdmi of power delivery or it's a cable that carries 50 amps you can plug in wrong, seems like something we've somehow managed to mostly avoid in the past 70 years
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
Good point. Reminds me of the people defending OLED panels with burn in by saying "you probably used it too much".
Jumpy_Cauliflower410@reddit
Materials that emit light will slowly degrade over time. Since OLED pixels themselves emit light, they can degrade at different rates. Other panel types have backlights that spread evenly over their pixels.
People buy OLED knowing that because OLED is just that much better and the degredation can only be mitigated with better materials. This connector does not need to be made in a way that potentially burns out.
6198573@reddit
Different situations tho
OLED doesn't burn-in because of bad design decisions, its just the nature of the material. Its well known and acknowledged by manufacturers and they might even cover it under warranty. If burn-in is an issue you can always buy IPS or VA monitors
These connectors are burning because of bad design and because nvidia couldn't be bothered to add load balancing to their cards. And you can't buy a 5090 without it
cdoublejj@reddit
IPS and VA can burn in to but, it's way more rare, i used to have a URL to an rtings article with a photo. it was just one out of a batch. none of my oled have burned in yet, or if they have not notably yet. one is a 2018 model that i bought in 2019.
kat0r_oni@reddit
How? OLED burn in is not something manufactures can solve for like 10 cents per card.
sahui@reddit
Imagine being dumb enough to give usd $3000 to Nvidia for this quality of hardware
SourceScope@reddit
I will not for the life of me understand why anyone would pay thousands of dollars for a thing that can burn your house down will youre taking a dump
Tech_Philosophy@reddit
I hate that I know my 5090 may be a ticking time bomb, and that companies are so uncaring about consumers, and so unregulated, that they will just laugh and tell me to buy another one. Fuck I hate this timeline.
Natzor@reddit
Wireview Pro II or any other solution not an option for you?
PlsDontBanMeAgain-1@reddit
just get a wireview and a thermal camera and a monitor for that camera and a smoke alarm for the case, cuz why not, and this and that, then the connector is usable, seems good
jt_wip@reddit
Has this device definitely saved cards or is it more of a less shit option?
Natzor@reddit
Well it is able to turn off your pc when a current imbalance is recognized
But I would expect users of the WireView to check cable quality themselves and the issue is handled beforehand
Something like the Ampinel from AquaComputer is able to add a load balancing stage
All in all neither product should be necessary
jt_wip@reddit
I actually didn't realise til I did more reading that the imbalance isn't like a flash event. I thought it was similar to a short, so I guess turning off as soon as it sees the imbalance is a perfect solution (that shouldn't be fucking needed).
I had a look at the ampinel more and it seems like balancing itself seems open to it's own issues but I guess is a minor reassurance.
DM_Me_Linux_Uptime@reddit
It has, but personally, I think its too sensitive and throws imbalance warnings even if the voltages are at safe ranges and the power usage is low (~300W), making people even more paranoid that their card is gonna catch fire, making them unplug and replug the connector multiple times wearing it down.
SplitBoots99@reddit
You don't unplug multiple times. You just push the cables into the connector and keep them straight. I fixed my imbalance by pushing the pins against the connection. I have unplugged maybe 5 times in the cards whole life.
DM_Me_Linux_Uptime@reddit
There were many people on the Thermal Grizzly subreddit who tried out multiple cables from different brands until their warnings went away instead of pushing the cable in.
SplitBoots99@reddit
It is true that some cables like a few Corsair native cables are just bad out of the box. It’s not all of the cables, but I notice quite a bit of Corsair natives being just not balanced brand new.
Tech_Philosophy@reddit
Thanks for the suggestion, I’m looking into this now. I can’t tell if that adds another point of failure or what, but if it works, it’s well worth the money to me.
Natzor@reddit
The big thing is: you will be able to monitor per pin amperage
If the connection and resistance of all the pins is equal than all pins should receive the same amperage
In one of my installations I found out that a CableMod cable had a completely dead pin connection so the monitoring tool "saved" me atleast once of further headache
jt_wip@reddit
Has this turned out to do much actually useful? I thought the ampinel was better now?
bibober@reddit
not on my FE
11BlahBlah11@reddit
There's a new "wired" version of it coming out soon that might help.
https://youtu.be/dAS9qZG0zTs
leops1984@reddit
They just added a “wired” universal version that fits on any card.
Vocalifir@reddit
Make sure after "testing a bunch of video cards" to plug it in correctly
king_of_the_potato_p@reddit
I personally won’t buy nvidia again until the connector is replaced and at least two years of it being out there and proven reliable.
I just play games, I don’t need their hardware to do that.
cdoublejj@reddit
the old connector was fine. i always thought it was ignorant when bitched back in the day that there was no innovation on connectors. what? yall want rectangle tire and wheels next?
lifestealsuck@reddit
Well atleast its crashing/reboot .
rain3h@reddit
From what I've seen he tests lots of cards of different games, has he confirmed that it isn't a case of wearing due to unplugging and replugging so many times?
Remote_Action_2956@reddit (OP)
He actually used a dongle on it that was never removed so doesn't seem to be from unplugging/replugging.
IgorKieryluk@reddit
But it could, in theory, be a problem with poor connections on the other side of the dongle?
AnechoidalChamber@reddit
Then, logically, the burning would've happened on the other side of the dongle.
TwoCylToilet@reddit
Not how that works. It could happen to either side simply due to increased current on the remaining pins.
buildzoid@reddit
the dongle bridges ALL the 12V connections right before the connector.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
That's the worst possible design for current balance.
Saneless@reddit
Almost everyone who had had an issue installs it and never touches it
x3nics@reddit
Every time this happens the subreddit seems desperate to find a reason to victim blame dismiss it as user error instead of just agreeing it's a shit connector.
Saneless@reddit
Yeah man it's totally the users' faults. Yeah yeah something something been installing GPUs for decades and never had an issue, but surely it's their fault with this particular connector every time!
jocnews@reddit
Also the PSU was clearly low quality and that definitely caused it. Dunno what PSU he had, but it's clear - Reddit.
It couldn't have been Nvidia's fault so gotta look for what else is suspect, right?
pcgameshardware@reddit
I mean, his use case is definitely harsher than normal, so I wouldn’t ignore that part... but yeah, the whol "must be user error then" thingy feels a bit too easy... ngl...
- Jacky
hibbel@reddit
The other end of the dongle has actually working connectors (aka the old 8-pin) that are not a problem. It's only this solution to a problem that nobody had (12-pin rather than multiple 8-pin) that actually is a problem.
nVidia wanted to make ~~cheaper~~ smaller logic boards and had to create a new plug for it and since the goal was to save ~~money~~ space, the result was too ~~cheap~~ small to be fit for purpose. That's the long and short of it.
RumbleTheCassette@reddit
Agreed with your theory. It's not impossible the weakness on one side of a dongle couldn't cause issues or manifest burning on the other side. I'd say it's unlikely, but certainly not impossible.
Substantial-Singer29@reddit
Important to make the note he didn't say never removed he said seldom removed...
EiffelPower76@reddit
Never use the provided adapter, use only the cable from the PSU
F9-0021@reddit
There's no difference. They're built to the same standard. It will melt regardless because the card's board design doesn't balance the power correctly and under huge power draws all the current going through one or two pins causes runaway heating and melts the plastic.
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
Same standart. Same plastic. Same manufacturing tolerances and defects. Same bullcrap
jt_wip@reddit
https://videocardz.com/newz/nine-brands-responded-on-whether-its-better-to-use-a-native-12v-2x6-cable-or-the-bundled-gpu-adapter