Equity flying club question
Posted by hazyskunk@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 21 comments
Hey everyone,
I’m looking for some feedback on a potential equity flying club opportunity. Here are the details:
The Club: 15 members, owns the plane outright.
The Plane: Cessna 182P, hangared, well-maintained, with a fresh engine (<300 hours).
The Costs: $9k buy-in, $125/month, and $140/hr wet (tach).
The Pros:
• My rental alternatives are limited. Local flight schools charge $225+/hr, availability is tough, and overnight trips are difficult to book.
The Cons & Hesitations:
• Avionics: The panel is completely original with no autopilot. An upgrade is planned, but that likely means a $2k–$4k assessment per member. (I won't fly IMC without an AP).
• The Buy-in: $9k feels steep for the current state of the plane, even if its market value supports the $135k total valuation. I feel like that doesn’t consider the plane is in a club (ie would be worth more under sole ownership)
• To end you’re on your own to sell your equity stake.
Let me know your thoughts.
Cheers!
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
Hot take: Refusing to fly IFR without an autopilot and fancy avionics is a proficiency problem. What happens when your fancy autopilot takes a shit and everything around you is down to mins?
acfoltzer@reddit
Then my safety margin gets smaller but I still land it and wait for the safety margin to get restored before I accept the risk again.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
As a CFI who primarily does FR’s/IPC’s if I hear a comment like this I’m totally failing your autopilot. I was going to fail it anyway, but in my experience people who make statements like this are over-reliant on technology, and failing it in IMC is going to get ugly. I have serious doubts that your average “I refuse to fly IMC without my AP” is going to be able to shoot an approach to mins if it fails someday with their kids in the back seat.
acfoltzer@reddit
I'm sure plenty of people use it as an excuse to send it when they shouldn't, and if someone wanted to fly more than one approach on autopilot during an IPC, that would be a bad sign. Unless specifically working on automation procedures, CFII time is golden for hands-on proficiency. But I do this for fun, and while single pilot IFR with no automation can be type-2 fun, it's less enjoyable and more risky than I care for opting into on a regular basis.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
Ok, that’s all fine and good but op said he categorically won’t fly IMC without an autopilot. Not that it’s more risky, or that he finds it tiring, or that he would prefer a plane with an AP. That’s all valid. But he said he won’t fly without one. Which begs the question, is he proficient at hand flying IMC? What is he going to do when the weather drops to mins and the AP shits the bed on a dark rainy night? Someone who will not consider flying without an AP is going to have a rough go at that.
acfoltzer@reddit
Yeah, that's fair. I haven't had coffee yet and your post read like it was telling me personally that I don't know I'm not proficient enough to fly IMC. And you'd be right about the last part but I am acutely aware of it... the plight of the weekend warrior.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
I’m a weekend warrior in my PA18, so I get it. I try to challenge myself every time I fly, because that’s the only way to stay sharp.
acfoltzer@reddit
Funny you should mention that, as my instrument proficiency decay is largely due to dedicating recent weekends to picking up the tailwheel endorsement. I'm learning that too many aviation goals and too little time means I have to be deliberate and honest with myself about what gets neglected as I cycle through. Miss a couple weekends, and a skill gets relegated to the "next time, I need a CFI" zone.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
That’s awesome! Totally get the pick what you want to do and make sure you are proficient at it. I fly for a major airline. Almost none of those skill transfer over to the kind of flying I like to do, which is backcountry USFS strips, gravel bars etc. Every spring when the snow melts off I’m out practicing those specific skills and trust me I’m rusty! By the end of the summer I’m landing on 300 foot sandbars, by next spring I’ve gotta get my groove back all over again.
Have fun with the tailwheel, keep the spinny thing in the front and have fun!
acfoltzer@reddit
That sounds like tons of fun. I'm hoping once I get proficient I can stay proficient towing gliders (we're lucky enough to have good soaring year-round at Hood River) but 300-foot sandbars is a whole other thing! And likewise, keep having fun, and thanks for challenging me in this thread 🫡
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
I’ll add that if you do it enough it’s not type 2 fun, it just becomes routine. A long time ago I had a job flying feeder freight and most of those planes didn’t have AP. If it’s challenging, that’s as sign that your skills could use sharpening. OBV there are sometimes where an AP can increase your safety margin, such as in high workload terminal environments. But id argue that a lot of pilots are making themselves less safe by using the AP once point that they are at best marginally proficient at flying their own aircraft. If it shits the bed while you are in hard IMC and you start to sweat, you aren’t proficient.
FridayMcNight@reddit
Not to mention that if you always fly the automation, your hand flying skills will get rusty fast.
mason_mormon@reddit
Rates are good and price is reasonable. Good XC rig. But 1 plane with 15 people seems like a lot. But again I'm in a club of 5 planes 50 members and it works out pretty good. Gotta be quick on the schedule in the summer because it can get busy.
Sinorm@reddit
The buy in is reasonable, airplane value isn’t less because it is in a club. My question is why the monthly fee is so high? Insurance and hangar costs shouldn’t be $1875/month. What else is being covered with that monthly fee?
Special-Ad1307@reddit
Honestly there isn’t enough information here. How long has this club/partnership been going on? How much debt do they have and what are the value of their assets. Do they have a cash fund for repairs or will it add to debt? Do they put aside money for maintenance and engine overhauls? Based on the buy-in and monthly costs it’s not a terrible deal. I probably wouldn’t join to fly a plane without gps and autopilot but I guess it depends on what you are doing
redditburner_5000@reddit
It's worth what it will get if you sold it. That number divided the number of members is the share price.
That's a "you" problem. You may want to consider some remedial training so you can confidently perform to standards.
I think $135k is a bit steep for valuation, but that rate is unbeatable! $140 wet tach? That's really good.
If P models in its condition are going for 135, then that is what it is. You could offer lower and see what happens.
skylaneguy@reddit
In my opinion it entirely depends on what your long term goal is. If you’re planning on buying your own airplane in a few years I wouldn’t touch this.
Otherwise, this could be a good opportunity if the airplane doesn’t get used all that much. 15 members sounds like a lot for one airplane but most clubs only have a couple regularly flying members.
Also based on how many cooks are in the kitchen you’re probably not going to get an avionics upgrade passed by vote very easily.
I just upgraded my 182 with a new panel to include an autopilot, some GI275s, and a GTN650xi and the cost was close to $100k.
mirassou3416@reddit
Partnerships work really well. I started one myself. This one doesn't sound like it suits you so find one that does or create your own
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
Steep buy-in for 15 members and one plane with outdated avionics. I'd make sure to ask to see the calendar over the last few months, too, so you can be sure about availability.
For reference, I'm in upstate NY and my club has around a $5k buy-in for 5 planes. 3 of them have updated avionics, and the other 2 at least have modern GPS units.
RexFiller@reddit
Doesn't seem worth it to pay that much to be sharing a plane with 15 people.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey everyone,
I’m looking for some feedback on a potential equity flying club opportunity. Here are the details:
The Club: 15 members, owns the plane outright.
The Plane: Cessna 182P, hangared, well-maintained, with a fresh engine (<300 hours).
The Costs: $9k buy-in, $125/month, and $140/hr wet (tach).
The Pros:
• My rental alternatives are limited. Local flight schools charge $225+/hr, availability is tough, and overnight trips are difficult to book.
The Cons & Hesitations:
• Avionics: The panel is completely original with no autopilot. An upgrade is planned, but that likely means a $2k–$4k assessment per member. (I won't fly IMC without an AP).
• The Buy-in: $9k feels steep for the current state of the plane, even if its market value supports the $135k total valuation. I feel like that doesn’t consider the plane is in a club (ie would be worth more under sole ownership)
• To end you’re on your own to sell your equity stake.
Let me know your thoughts.
Cheers!
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