Where to go after being burnt by my current company and the industry?
Posted by Neuromante@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 19 comments
13 years on this, 5 years in my current company, now full time remote and based in Europe; I'm one of these guys who got into this because videogames and ended up going to the boring side of the industry because I needed to pay bills. For better or worse, I found out that I like to build things by writing code. I've never had a real "plan" for my career more than "I like to make applications and have a stable positon" and, at least up until now, it has kind of worked out.
The thing is that, after burning out in my current company (A mix of work reasons and a lot of personal crap that has just started to really clear), I've realized that nor my team nor the company are good fits for me, and its probably time to move on.
Anyway, after all these years here, not only I feel completely rusty and out of touch with what companies are looking (languages, frameworks, etc, I've spent too few time actually building things and way too much time fighting against our infrastructure and in endless meetings), but I've also lost all interest in the industry: We use agile but, we use industry standards but, we have this great application (it's just another CRUD application done in Java 8), let's play poker to do estimations, don't get me started with SAFE. Everything is the same, everything sucks, and everyone pretends they are hot shit.
(As an aside, if you don't include at least one swear in your reply, I'll probably think you are an LLM)
I feel that any interview where they ask me "what do you think about this" will be answered with an assertive version of "I don't care, it's a tool, I don't get excited for using a specific screwdriver" and obviously that will be a red flag. In addition, it's been years since the last time I used an actual industry standard or common framework, or engaged in a meaningful technical discussion over one feature. I feel rusty and out of touch like Skinner, but also feel like I'm being extremely cynic about the current state of the industry.
So, I don't know how to frame this in my search. I'm in a better place now than a few weeks ago (mostly because I took a vacation, therapy is also helping), and while I figure out what's going to be my next move I'll try to improve at my current org (worst case scenario, I learn something), but I know I need to get back to the hiring cycle and I don't know how to pretend I care about something I don't give a fuck about or how to phrase that everything is boring nowadays but I need to do it for money in a way that could get me hired. Shit, I don't even know what would be a good position for me.
So any pointer would be greatly appreciated.
Wide_Signature1153@reddit
you're burned out bro. take some time to refind the passion.
I got laid off, did manual labor for some time and now refound my passion for making things, yes even "another CRUD app".
also: fuck fuck fuck
Neuromante@reddit (OP)
I do have that passion. I still play with my raspberries, got my small (utility) projects and enjoy making small shit. But these are projects that are as barebones as they can be; there's no frameworks that solve in a different way a problem already solved, no connections to external services from megacorporations, no dockerization and the "deployment" is right click -> export as.
Still, I wish I could afford spend some time doing manual labor somewhere, but I have no skills on that department, and I don't want to have a gap of "one year making firewood" that may look bad on my CV.
Bbonzo@reddit
"I don't care, it's a tool, I don't get excited for using a specific screwdriver" -> bro... you're still burned out...
How do I know? I've been where you are. It took me 2 years to get the spark back. You need time off, a vacation isn't going to cut it. I'm in Germany and here burnout is considered a medical condition, meaning, I was able to get 16 months of paid medical leave. After that I left the company and spent some time on unemployment benefits.
I used all this time to "reset and reevaluate". Did lots of therapy, meditation, walks, some traveling, spending time with family but most importantly, coding things for fun. Engaigng in things I wanted to do, not in the things I though I should because I need to upskill.
After some time I realised that my current position (manager) was my source of burnout becasue it cut me off from hands on work, something that I was always passionate about.
I'm starting a new job next week, as an IC, in a small, chill company.
ultraDross@reddit
WTF! I wish we had something like this in the UK... You sort of have to soldier on here...
merRedditor@reddit
I kind of think OP has a point, though. Expecting people to be like "I'm soooo excited about [whatever the fuck new JavaScript framework of the week is trendy]!" might work if you want people very new to programming. After the 10th or so language/framework, though, you start to just see everything as a permutation of the same core concepts, with syntax variations that you have to memorize. By the time you've worked with 20, the syntax memorization is an annoyance you start to resent, particularly when the new language adds complexity to something that could be done more easily with a previous generation language.
Neuromante@reddit (OP)
I don't know, I feel much calmer and detached now than before the vacation, and updating my CV does not give me anxiety, lol. I do like technology, it's just that most of the corporate stuff is... boring. I've been always an IC, so most decisions about technology are above my pay grade. Do I prefer using gitflow than trunk-based development? Yeah. Do I care if they use trunk-based development? Nah. I don't really like cloud based development, but if I need to work with AWS, I will. I don't care about the last version of docker, only that its what everyone uses, so I need to learn to use it, even though I don't really like depending on a proprietary client of an open source technology.
I'd rather would be working on AR, but most companies on that seems to be full on surveillance, so, ugh.
I'm in the south of Europe, and while we have a fair amount of protections, I doubt I could get that deal, mostly because here there's a strong push against anything related to mental health. Also, I can't afford taking a sabatical (Just bought a home, I do have savings, but that's for unplanned emergencies).
FWIW, I'm also on this, although while working, lol. Lots of similar suggestions given by my therapist (doing things I enjoy to do). The fun fact is that I've never forced myself to "upskill", things have come and usually the fight has been to keep myself coding and not branch out too much.
Anyway, I've realized I need to move on to a smaller position (I'm even considering less pay, I already bought a house, so whatever), all I need is a way to re-sell myself again.
wiriux@reddit
He didn’t user a swear word. You replied to LLM.
Neuromante@reddit (OP)
Not really, his language does not seem like the one from an LLM, he does not have his comments hidden and the account is from 2014, so I guess he's legit.
Long_Egg_8644@reddit
Honestly, you don’t sound rusty so much as burned the fuck out by corporate theater. Big difference.
A lot of experienced devs eventually realize they don’t actually love “the industry,” they just like solving problems and building useful things. The agile ceremonies, SAFE nonsense, framework hype cycles, and fake enthusiasm exhaust people over time.
Also, not caring about specific tools isn’t even a bad sign at senior level. “It’s a screwdriver” is honestly closer to maturity than worshipping frameworks like religion. The trick is phrasing it professionally in interviews. “I care more about maintainability, team fit, and solving the business problem than chasing trendy stacks” sounds sane instead of cynical.
You probably need:
And honestly? Taking vacation + therapy helping already suggests your brain isn’t broken. It’s just been marinating in too much corporate sludge for too long.
Neuromante@reddit (OP)
I've been hearing the concept of "Agile exhaustion" or something like that to illustrate what you are saying, and it completely resonates with me. I've been in three different agile teams and, for one reason or another, they've been the places where less productive I've been.
Anyway, extra points for mentioning the fake enthusiasm. Everyone smiles, everyone says its great, but everyone knows everyone don't really give a shit and are acting. Is maddening.
I need to let the cynic in me gtfo before. I'm a straight guy regarding opinions, and transforming a "no" into a "well, actually... [5 minutes monologue to say "no"]" makes me exhausted. So yeah, I need to find a script to frame that crap better.
How do you do to find one? Last time I switched jobs I had a very good counter-interview list, but I don't know anymore how to find if the company (or the team, if the process involve them) is not another shithouse cargo-culting Agile.
Preach, brother. I've spent the last few years on some kind of razor's edge while I was telling to myself that if things finally got solved I would do a sanity check after a few months. But it seems I've spent too much time waiting and the sanity check was already done.
olzk@reddit
What makes you think AI won’t swear? 😂
Anyways, been there, actually, in a similar but far worse by its effect on my condition as compared to yours here. I ultimately had to cut it off without finding the next project before leaving. Went on to do a couple of smaller projects, good thing I already got a ton of exp so changing pace or taking a long vacation doesn’t affect skills. Biggest support for me was communicating with closely connected people, both relatives and friends. It helped flip the negative script.
This is basically what I think you could do too.
Just recall from your past, that “what you think about X” is an entry question to discussing your experience, possibly with X Y and Z and all that jazz. This is an open-ended invitation for you demonstrating to them what you know and/or aspire to. Remember, they don’t know you, just like you don’t know them.
Rusty? You can google what’s new. Make a pet project to get more confident. Go ahead and make some useless fun shit with it, where you can make all the mistakes of this world.
Over-using AI lately? Stop using it completely, or use only like you do search engines.
Simply remember, human brain always defaults to passive mode (because it’s a survival strategy), and negativity is, more often than not, its way to force you switch to it.
Recall your past experience, what great things you made, focus thinking on what you could improve further there (no negativity!), and what more, in general, you could make with your skills and what skills and technologies you could learn/make to make even more fun stuff. What stuff? Ahh what an interesting question! Dare your brain find the answer!
Flip your fucking negative thinking (my captcha phrase for you 😂). Swear back at me so I know I didn’t write this passage to a useless AI bot 🙃
Neuromante@reddit (OP)
Fuck yeah, at least I get the check that someone has read the whole wall of shit I spewed. Something like the Van Halen and the brown M&M's.
Makes sense , but I'm gonna need to make a conscious effort to stop the cynicism on my replies, lol. The worst part is that now I don't really aspire to anything more than a comfortable job where I don't have to justify my work everyday in the morning. I'm allegedly senior, and have no interest on moving further from here.
My problem here is time availability. I have some ${framework_everyone_uses} courses around and could get back to, but I'm at that point in life where "programming after work" is reserved for my own tools and scripts, and not even for personal projects (i.e. "make a game"). Also I'm still unpacking and assembling furniture, as I moved here not so long ago.
I think I'm writing down this. It's hard to remember the cool shit when the last years have been a walk in the desert both in the personal and in the professional sides of life.
Fuckitty fucking fuck. Hah.
not_a_db_admin@reddit
The 'it's a screwdriver' take is correct, you just can't phrase it like that in a screen. Same idea works fine as 'I'm tool-agnostic, I care more about the problem and the team.' Most hiring managers actually like that because it means you won't refuse to touch their Java 8 CRUD on principle.
The rusty thing is overstated too. Most of the 'modern stack' jobs out there are still the same fucking CRUD app with a different yaml file on top. Smaller companies, IC tracks, or staff roles where you mostly get left alone tend to be the move when corporate theater is the part that broke you, not the code.
Worldline_AI@reddit
Eff it, build your own service. Make use of those non-cursing LLMs.
Oleksii_Dundar@reddit
Find a team that lets you build cool shit without the corporate theater is a massive relief. I'm with Lampa.dev, and we focus strictly on actual engineering.
No one here pretends they're saving the universe. It’s just a sharp, down-to-earth team that respects your time and leaves the industry hype at the door. I’m a lucky man
TylerDurdenFan@reddit
I'm almost 50, and I learned to code at 9 from a book on BASIC and loved it, did turbo pascal and C during highschool. It felt like a calling.
After college I worked for 9 years as a software developer, architect, etc. I was the technical lead at my company, yet made just a tiny bit more than a muggle. I quit after a change of ownership in the company, took a sabbatical, used it to finish my interrupted-because-of-work masters degree (in business), and decided to be very selective in my next job. I got lucky and got an IT management job in a great company. It was at that job that I realized: I don't want to code for others. I dislike it so much.
It's been 15 years since that carreer switch, I'm still in IT and Ops. During all these years I've only coded to scratch my own itches, both at home and work. After so long I'm very rusty/outdated, and just when I was starting to worry I might not be able to go back into software development, but then AI happened, and what's going on with AI and devs has me thinking I made the right choice at the right time, to leave the software development carreer.
We'll see, but for now, I'm happy.
Numidiculous@reddit
You're on the right track with the therapy. Prioritize yourself and your well-being. Do things you enjoy the most. Try to pick up something new. Focus on things you can change. Every step counts. That's what keeps me going, even though it sounds cliché. Otherwise, nothing makes any sense and we're gonna die alone. Let's at least try to enjoy the life we've been given.
Reasonable_Working47@reddit
If I've understood, you want to find a company with less formal agile processes, more engineering autonomy, and somewhere which allows you to focus on building and solving problems. Perhaps a smaller company with a clear individual contributor role will suit you better.
ImprovedJesus@reddit
It seems that your personal and work situation has taken a real toll on your general mental state. I would focus on therapy and doing things that bring you joy in your daily life.
"I don't care, it's a tool, I don't get excited for using a specific screwdriver"
I'm not a recruiter, but I do prefer if my colleagues feel some type of way towards the many tools and decisions we have at our disposal. You don't need to be a top tier Linux contributor, but feeling engaged in the technical discussions is important imo.
Better times _will_ come. I would not focus on "how do I pretend to care" but rather "how do I find joy in doing it again". Yes, it's a job, not a hobby, but we don't have to be miserable doing our jobs.
Take care and best of luck!