What about pulling weight?

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Dapper_Challenge2179@reddit

I have a Velotric D1 Plus and have pulled much heavier for long distance with no issue. Actually the only issue I had was some serious steep hills that I had to do some extra manual labor. But that was with over 300 lbs in the trailer. The D1 is also only a 500w hub motor with cadence sensor. The new lineup is much much better and more powerful.

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Exist4@reddit (OP)

Thier "GoMad" cargo ebike actually looks really nice and and includes the extra child seat
https://www.velotricbike.com/products/velotric-gomad-utility-ebike?variant=54217127002484

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Dapper_Challenge2179@reddit

Oh, keep in mind that some of the other suggestions with more powerful or dual motors are illegal, will be illegal and/or not allowed on trails in most areas. 750w motor(and only 1) is the max for most regulations. If you are on private property or one of the states that won't regulate them you will be good though.

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Dapper_Challenge2179@reddit

Yeah, the Gomad is awesome. Everyone I have talked to that got one or test rode one loves it. It's kind of like a cargo bike without looking like a cargo bike

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Dapper_Challenge2179@reddit

Also, their whole line is under $3000. The Gomad actually has a passenger seat option also. The D3 is a great all around commuter enjoyment bike with a great range. The Nomad is a fat tire off road lover and the Nomad 2x is a beast for towing. The Summit 2 is like a mid point between the D3 and Nomad with a big torque value but without fat tires which increases the range over the nomad.

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_HillCruiser@reddit

Dual 1000w motors -
Bad News -- The current commercial offerings of AWD are not stellar.
Good News -- You can easily build one yourself.

Start with your favorite rear drive ebike and add a direct-drive w/regen front motor kit.
Just pop in the new wheel, mount a new battery and add the new controls to the bars.

The front drive adds several safety benefits to a rear drive, especially for towing:

First, the regen braking provides the strongest, surest braking (in the world:)
Second, one drive pulling and another pushing keeps the bike (and the trailer) solid in it's tracks
Third, splitting the load keeps both motors/controllers running cooler and more efficient.
Fourth, AWD provides outstanding handling and balances the bike front to rear.

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Exist4@reddit (OP)

How would a dual motor compare to a mid drive? Doing some research it appears that mid drives offer the most efficiency since they use gears and are not very efficient at now speeds since their out of their powerband. Obviousely I have not tested this myself, just trying to do my own research. Curious on your thoughts and appreciate the feedback :)

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_HillCruiser@reddit

I've never ridden a mid-drive so I really can't comment.
(and the mid-drive promoters have never ridden a dual motor:)

I've pulled a trailer with mine and I know that a single rear drive
(hub motor in my case) didn't resist the lateral forces very well,
but when the front drive is added the bike becomes stable as a rock.

The bike is pulling the trailer but the trailer has a mind of it's own;
don't underestimate the forces coming back to the rear of the
bike from the trailer.

Regen braking is not available on a mid-drive, but braking is a
corollary to the forces mentioned above coming from the trailer.

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deck_hand@reddit

Any 750 watt mid-drive bike would do this easily. Most bicycle riders can produce around 100 watts continuously, and 1000 watts for a brief amount of time. Professional bicycle racers can sustain under about 500 watts during their races. If you can produce 250 watts going uphill, and the bike is adding 750 watts, you're going to be able to use twice as much energy as a professional bike racer uses over the course of a race. (peak power for sprinters or during a hill climb can be 3000 watts for a pro-racer, but that's for very short distances)

I'm assuming you are talking about traveling at normal bicycle speeds, since you're carrying your kids with you. One horsepower is a lot of power. It is defined as 746 watts, and most electric bikes running a 750 watt motor actually have peak power closer to 1000 or 1100 watts for short durations. James Watt coined the term "horsepower" when he was trying to figure out how to market his steam engines. He observed horses working at a local brewery, pulling a grinding wheel in a circle. He saw that a horse could pull the bar at 180 pounds while walking at about 2.5 miles per hour. He set 1 horsepower as the power required to lift 550 pounds by 1 foot in 1 second.

Now, your 250 pounds (plus 90 pounds worth of kids), plus the weight of the bike do not equal 550 pounds, and the hills you are climbing won't require a foot per second clime rate, so 1 horsepower (or 750 watts) will be more than enough to make the climb.

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Exist4@reddit (OP)

Thanks for a quick lesson on power. I had no idea that a 750w motor was essentially 1HP and that it was technically enough to do all that. Definitely learned something from this post, thanks.

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Salemsara@reddit

That’s already cargo bike territory. Under $5k, look at Lectric XPedition, Aventon Abound, or used Tern GSD / RadWagon if you can find one. That’s the range where it actually feels safe loaded

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Exist4@reddit (OP)

Appreciate this, actually these are all great contendors right at the 2K price range for a cargo bike. The only thing that somewhat holds me back is their all rated for 80Nm of torque and some other options like the FAT-HD 1.0 Pro claim 160Nm so double and from what limited research Ive done, torque matters more than motor wattage when pulling weight. Still not sure but Ive added the 3 you listed to my chart where Im trying to compare specs, prices...etc. Very attractive pricing and I really like the idea of not even needing a trailer for the kids but instead having the lady take one kid and me taking the other and thus being way more versatile than having to lug around a trailer.

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SamePollution5971@reddit

Would recommend a wired scout or cruiser. Those bikes are crazy powerful. I have a scout and weigh about 200 lbs. I also have a huge storage bin zip tied to the rear rack that I routinely load up with a fair amount of weight and it still accelerates like crazy. Genuinely almost too much power sometimes.

If you're in Miami I'm planning on selling mine.

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Exist4@reddit (OP)

Thanks, it looks like a pretty impressive bike for $2,800 with a 2000W hub motor and 180Nm of torque which in comparison list of eBikes puts its right near the top of the torque winners.

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Which_Perception_384@reddit

Most bike's will do it but not good. And probably stop going up hill. Mid drive is the best choice for that kind of Weight . I tow 130lbs I'm 160. I can do 12 to 18 kph uphill. 1000w mid drive. Hub motor was pretty useless, they just don't have the torque.