Former Ferrari President, and assistant to Enzo Ferrari, Luca di Montezemolo: "If I said what I really think, I'd harm Ferrari. We're risking the destruction of a myth, I'm very sorry about that. I hope they at least remove the Prancing Horse from that car"
Posted by LongjumpingLock5875@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 405 comments
maybevotequimby@reddit
As a car enthusiast I would never consider buying a modern Ferrari simply because they don't have manual transmissions. A sports car without a manual transmissions is not a sports car.
StoneColdAM@reddit
The Luce looks like the rumored Apple car with a Ferrari badge. It doesn’t fit the brand at all. It feels like a novelty luxury EV, not anything close to a sports car.
MICHAELSD01@reddit
I would personally love this as $50k EV. I’m thinking about the price tag and even for a billionaire to spend $650k on a car with worse range and acceleration than a much cheaper completion just doesn’t make any logical sense.
KLconfidential@reddit
Don’t worry, it’s an EV so it will be worth 50k in 4-5 years.
AmbitiousEconomics@reddit
I would buy one for $50k. I bet they settle closer to 250-300 though.
sickmemes48@reddit
No chance it's worth that much after 4-5 years. SF90s are hybrids and have fallen from 700K-300K. I think it'll be closer to 100K than 300K.
AmbitiousEconomics@reddit
The cheapest SF90 I see in the US is $450k, which is a drop of, what, 36%?
A drop of 85% is just silly to expect from a Ferrari.
sickmemes48@reddit
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/779665697?city=Knoxville&listingType=USED&makeCode=FER&modelCode=FERSF90STR&searchRadius=0&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&state=TN&zip=37931 There are multiple listed in the 300s on Autotrader
AmbitiousEconomics@reddit
Those are base Stradales which started at $520k, not XXs which were the 700k ones. Even assuming you could get the cheapest one at $390 (the listing straight up says there are fees not included in the price) that would be a drop of 25%, which actually makes my point stronger, so thanks for proving me right I guess?
MICHAELSD01@reddit
My depreciation bet is a quick drop to $120k after ~ 5 years.
regardballs@reddit
as a used taycan owner I'll be watching the depreciation of this waiting for my chance
I_luv_ma_squad@reddit
Do you legitimately like the car or just trying to buy the prancing horse for $50k?
regardballs@reddit
the Ferrari looks like shit but for 70-90k used under battery warranty I'd get it for the meme
ric2b@reddit
That would be amazing, I bet a lot of people would pay 50k for a relatively new and practical for day to day Ferrari, just for the fun of saying they drive a Ferrari.
James_Vowles@reddit
and existing Ferrari owners would hate it. It would also kill their brand. Ferrari's are supposed to be expensive and limited.
ric2b@reddit
For sure, yeah.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
It's a 4 door Ferrari and an EV, this thing will have a sign-and-drive $300/mo lease special by the end of the year.
Miserable-Assistant3@reddit
Just saying that used Rolls-Royce Spectre don’t even depreciate that much
krackenracer@reddit
The Spectre made for a better Rolls-Royce.
The Luce is the worst Ferrari ever conceived.
James_Vowles@reddit
That's because luxury and electric work perfectly together and they're the kings of luxury
Salt-Plankton436@reddit
Surely $400k to get them out the door and $300k once its on your driveway lol
eZreazy@reddit
Even from a luxury stand point why get this over a Spectre?
Like what is it the best at?
ElegantBiscuit@reddit
A lucid air sapphire beats this on range, space, half a second better to 60, and it costs 1/3 the price, 1/4 if you buy used. Anyone shopping in the used bar-of-soap 5 passenger electric sedan market is not paying $700k for the ferrari name and a jony ive interior. Only way they move these is as a voucher to wait in line for a future ferrari, but that trick only works so many times before you run out of people willing to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars buying stinkers. Actually upon reflection, its ferrari, they won't run out. But any brand only has so much equity it can burn before it loses public appeal, and that appeal and exclusivity is what keeps their business model alive in the first place.
eZreazy@reddit
The price is egregious. This needed to be the cheapest car in their lineup.
Be 2x the price of Taycan turbo, it would still be pretty embarrasing because the car itself sucks but that would atleast be aligned with what a ferrari EV should be.
krackenracer@reddit
Even if it was the cheapest car they made, say 250k base and mid to low 300’s once optioned as normal…it would still be awful. The price isn’t the issue.
ColoradoCyclist@reddit
I agree it’s awful. It’s truly the ugliest luxury EV available, which is amazing since Mercedes took that position only a few weeks ago.
However, the price is the issue. At 100k these would sell just because of the badge. Maybe they wouldn’t fly off the shelf but they would sell.
I’ll give them 3-5 years and they’ll be 1xx,xxx.
krackenracer@reddit
They cannot sell cars at 100k. Their margins are the highest in the industry and the company profitability is predicated on it. Nor do they have production capacity to churn out tens of thousands of EVs to try and make it up on scale. They would have to outsource to someone - and again what’s the point? Just cheapens the brand.
For comparison, 100k is about the average level of OPTIONS on many models (and potentially far, far more).
ColoradoCyclist@reddit
I agree 100%, however this was the perfect opportunity for them to partner with another manufacturer to produce this monstrosity.
eZreazy@reddit
I agree with you it’s the car itself that’s a problem but if the positioning wasn’t so horrible you can atleast argue it as the easiest way to get into the ferrari brand and it would sell.
The positioning just makes absolutely no sense. Like why would you get this over the Purosangue or any of their other offerings even ignoring the rest of its competitors.
Miserable-Assistant3@reddit
Only car designed by people who used to work at Apple
nickN42@reddit
After Liquid Ass that's the opposite of the selling point.
Miserable-Assistant3@reddit
It is the best formerly Apple designed car, because it’s the only one
Mydickisaplant@reddit
THEYRE 650K?!?!?!?!?!
The3rdbaboon@reddit
$640k but that’s before any options. So most will likely be well over $650k when all is said and done.
Fun_Success_3283@reddit
I don't. Anybody that designes an EV to look EV, has failed the mission imo.
I think using the fact it is EV, the fact you don't need radiators, you have a different engine, and the batteries to consider, these should influence the design, as you try to use to factors to make the greatest, best handling and fastest and best looking, and practical last for ferrari, vehicle you can possibly make.
But idk why car manufacturers keep doing this. It's like they have an idea that ev should look dumb and geeky, and non aerodynamic, and "tech-like". Just design it like you'd design any car. Aerodynamics, center of gravity, start with the performance and do function over form, mostly, and then form the fuck out of it as much as you can.
jas417@reddit
Ya it’s not really a bad looking car, rather handsome even.
Ludicrous as a $650k car with a Ferrari badge on it, it’s gonna do nothing for anyone that a Taycan or Lucid or other high end EV doesn’t
Chelavitajo@reddit
If the suspension is anything like the Purosangue, you can total it just with the suspension replacement, front shocks are like 20k per unit.
McWitt19@reddit
Bar of soap
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
Every time. It's amazing that even ferrari can't seem to escape this trope.
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
FWIW I do think the design is somewhat reminiscent of Italian futurist design from the 70s, but I still don't think it should be a Ferrari. It could be a good design for Alfa or maybe a Lancia.
Suck_My_Thick@reddit
Jony Ive is a fan of Dieter Rams (so am I). He's an industrial designer for appliances and furniture. The idea is the simpler the better. This clashes with Ferrari design for so many reasons.
CashKeyboard@reddit
Going out on a limb but I don't think Dieter Rams, despite probably generally being a fan of the idea, would've appreciated just steamrolling a car design with the dogma of a phone design.
Designers like Rams, or Giugiaro for the car space, were able to contextualize their idea of design and apply it to different fields of industrial design for different brands. This car seems like Ive is unable to do any of that.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
Ive has always been like that. He has had good ideas/designs but he needed a strong character like steve jobs to say to him "that's shit, do better". After steve passed he has run free and mostly done turds.
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
yeah, poor fit between the designer and the brand.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
Doesn't look like an alfa either imo. The luce looks a generic EV from someone who designs kitchen appliances.
TheRealKeenanWynn@reddit
This would’ve made a good Lancia imo. Or Xiaomi.
Megatron_McLargeHuge@reddit
Have we reached the "You're not the target market" cope stage yet?
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
who the fuck is the target market for this? as others have said, they'll probably just unload them on people as a requirement to get on the list for something more exclusive.
tablepennywad@reddit
It has all the design language of a Honda E. That is all that needs to be said.
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
Th Honda E is beautiful. I hope they consider finding a way to make it competitive with more range and a lower price.
rekniht01@reddit
As Mat Watson said on Carwow, it looks like a refreshed Jaguar I Pace
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
The Jaguar I Pace was GORGEOUS. This one isn't. There aren't any parallels between the both.
James_Vowles@reddit
No need for the hyperbole it wasn't that good
SelfServeSporstwash@reddit
Gorgeous is a stretch. But it definitely looked better than this nonsense
anarchyx34@reddit
That’s what I was thinking when I first saw it. It reminds me of a lot of that avant garde furniture you saw from Italy in the 70s and 80s.
TopHatTony11@reddit
It would be a great Alfa kid hauler. Cut the power in half and knock off 550,000 euro and they might have something.
Tricky_Condition_279@reddit
The price tag is the point
Miserable-Assistant3@reddit
I think it could have worked way better as a modern version of the Alfa SZ for example.
Seref15@reddit
Absolutely looks Lancia coded
acideater@reddit
I think the interior looks great. There isn't much complaints from the interior. For an EV that is already heavy, a hollowed out carbon fiber/black interior doesn't really make sense or fit. Ev's are heavily software and featured based which fits the design of the interior.
Nothing about the exterior though reminds me of an apple/ferrari product. It sort of looks like a generic sedan that could be a chinese ev.
I don't know how they can get the price to $650k. Ev's really compress the performance that its hard to justify the amount. The customer is eating the whole EV production line cost with prices like those.
BlueKnight44@reddit
But does it look like a 650k ferrari interior? Absolutely not. It looks like a premium economy shitbox interior. Something one of the EV startup brands like Lucid would create. Not a luxury sportscar manufacturer like Ferrari with over 75 years of heritage.
They ignored all that heritage to create a generic interior that could have been rendered by CHATGPT with a Ferrari steering wheel pasted on.
Blanchimont@reddit
I actually think the interior is the only bit of the car where they are trying to lean in to the heritage a bit. The seat pattern that's reminiscent of old cars, metal switches, a clever analog/digital hybrid instrument cluster with physical needles. And my word, that steering wheel is absolutely amazing. It's gorgeous and such a good way to hark back to those even more gorgeous steering wheels from the 50's and 60's.
Now is it perfect? Absolutely not. I think the panel with the launch control handle is a bit much. I also think putting the center display on a ball joint is a bit silly. Just fix it to the dash already. But overal? I love the interior and would be very happy if whatever front-mid engined GT comes after the Amalfi and 12Cilindri takes some inspiration from it.
acideater@reddit
Ferrari really doesn't do Luxury interiors. Which interior can you point too that states "luxury" and premium for Ferrari considering the price?
They're generally black/carbon fiber with controls orientated to the driver. Maybe you get a tan interior, but you don't buy a ferrari to be wowed with the interior. There are sub 100k luxury cars with better interiors.
Their interiors are functional as super car interiors, but not anything luxury or nice considering the money spent. Your buying a ferrari for brand first and foremost considering how damn expensive they are even to other luxury sports cars. There is heritage and its definitely about design and brand name not for interiors.
Blasted-Banana@reddit
The Rolls Spectre starts at a lower price point, looks infinitely better, has materials on the interior that are second to none, and still has solid performance. Since the Luce looks so awful, it pretty much needs to do everything the Rolls can do, and drive leagues better than the Rolls.
I legitimately don't know why someone would buy this unless they absolutely positively need an electric Ferrari and care about nothing else outside of that. The fucking Cadillac Celestiq is a better buy than this thing.
sauceagain@reddit
i didn’t realize it costs more then spectre. holy fuck
Blasted-Banana@reddit
In fact, a fully loaded spectre IS STILL CHEAPER than what the Luce is apparently starting at.
anotherbluemarlin@reddit
Do we know where this is made ? I mean, the conspiracy theorist in me would like to believe that they just took a discarded project from apple (design, production subcontracting and all), slapped a badge and an outrageous price, to watch it fail without much investment. But... yeah, probably not.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
It looks like a Lucid that was turned into a Ferrari by a custom shop.
alien_believer_42@reddit
My theory is that hardliners at Ferrari think an EV is blasphemy. They know the economic and regulatory case for it exists though, so they gave it its totally own design language that won’t step on the toes of ICE models, and didn’t want it to have any heritage styling.
krackenracer@reddit
Then they could have made it a sub-brand. Sold it through dealers but not with the Ferrari name on it.
Trust me when I say that owners are absolutely appalled by this and there will absolutely be fallout over it. Ironically not by buyers of this abomination though, they are pretty much required to purchase one to maintain status.
The hilarious part is going to be how bad the resale value of this thing will be. It’s going to make the 50% next year discount on Audi e-trons and Taycans look like appreciation.
sexarseshortage@reddit
I don't know if that's going to fly with Ferrari owners. There is only so far you can push people with that tactic. People just won't cross shop this with any other car in the Ferrari lineup. Even if I was on "the list" I would tell Ferrari to fuck off if they suggested I had to buy one of these to stay there. The price is so outrageous.
The only saving grace will be if it drives like no other EV and is groundbreaking. And even at that I wouldn't trust any reviews of this car until journalists get a hold of customer cars.
Ferrari has very carefully managed what is said about it so far. Chris Harris said he got a phone call to vet him and was blacklisted (again). The throttle house lads have been blacklisted for complaining about the capacitive buttons on the 298 even though Ferrari admitted they were shit.
It's astounding that there are so few poor reviews from people who got access to the reveal. They need a new PR, marketing and design department.
krackenracer@reddit
It will absolutely still fly with Top Tier and VIP classification clients, they will not risk the loss of status. And if you want to know why, look at SP3/812Comp/SF90XX resale prices.
Just another car they will absolutely tolerate a loss on to keep getting anything numbered.
JCarterPeanutFarmer@reddit
I just looked at the images and I want to bleach my eyes. What the FUCK are they thinking?
DDz1818@reddit
Honestly it looks like a taxi.
IdolizeHamsters@reddit
I can just imagine Jony Ive entering a darkened room, music playing as board members look on. He pompously turns to the screen, pressing a switch on a remote and just says “Luceeeee”.
The board members are stunned and look at the screen confused. One board member, stutters aloud “there’s, an Apple logo on it?”
Pompous Ive just blinks back and says “ohhhh. Yeah we’ll remove that”
analyticaljoe@reddit
I'm sure they wanted to make my Taycan look good. :)
Good_Air_7192@reddit
It looks like a car that should have come out a decade ago.
MICHAELSD01@reddit
It somewhat reminds me of a longer BMW i3, which I’ve owned two including one in Galvanic Gold that somewhat reminds me of the gold option on the Luce. Ironically also equipped with a glossy carbon fiber roof and an Apple-approved interior…
Good_Air_7192@reddit
I saw it and thought "Jaguar I-Pace facelift"
ElegantBiscuit@reddit
Definitely I-pace from the side, but I see Prius prime pro max in the front, chevy impala in the rear.
yobo9193@reddit
>looks like the rumored Apple car
Well it was designed in large part by Jony Ive, so that tracks.
MICHAELSD01@reddit
That interior would slap on a mass-produced car.
moonwoolf35@reddit
Nah, he should say how he really feels
Bernies_Hair@reddit
True OG.
holchansg@reddit
Ferrari died a long time ago, 458, 812 you can even stretch and point to the Monza SP1/SP2...
equitymans@reddit
How are any of those bad Ferraris lol I'll deff cop a 458 and I'm a die hard Ferrari fan from childhood!
holchansg@reddit
These are the good ones.
WIP1992@reddit
I’m intrigued, what’s your criteria?
offitcock@reddit
Can someone only like a car they've driven or owned?
WIP1992@reddit
If you’re going to say ferrari (arguably the greatest car maker of all time) has died I’d expect that opinion to be based on actual data or experience. I suppose if we’re talking looks then probably not. On that note the Luce is undeniably hideous.
Smoblikat@reddit
The F40 is probably the coolest ferrari and they literally couldnt even paint it properly, I dont think theyre the greatest car maker of all time. Thats probably toyota by definition.
WIP1992@reddit
If paint quality is your metric then sure Toyota is up there 😂
iamarddtusr@reddit
Have you driven every brand to say Ferrari is the greatest car maker of all time?
flat6cyl@reddit
Is there a bigger aspect to Ferrari than the visceral part? The design and the sound.
Constriction@reddit
...the driving?
equitymans@reddit
The physics as well. Not only losing the prime pina body languages, but the mid range are all way, way worse sounding than 430 and 458 (in person it's not even close), due to forced induction. The f40 is the greatest sounding turbo car to me ever, but modern Ferrari twin turbos are simply not even close, let alone to NA.
Then there's the mass. A 3700lbs Ferrari will always feel worse in various dynamic scenarios relative to a (still very modern by suspension standards) 3300-3400lbs one. Even the 458 gained 2-3 inches of wheelbase over the 430. Higher polar inertia comes with every unit increase. 2 inches isn't a ton but regardless!
agnaddthddude@reddit
No, but they shouldn’t have an opinion on it of they haven’t owned one. I can’t say the 812 is shit car when i haven’t driven it.
tbf only the target audience can have an opinion and with it a power to make a difference.
Now, im not saying the above guy is broke or never drove one. for all i know he could be a Saudi sheikh with a garage full of beauties. but I genuinely hate this type of behaviour this sub has
offitcock@reddit
They listed a couple of ferraris they said were good ones and was met with "have you owned or driven one". Not once have I seen a bugatti veyron IRL, let alone driven one, but I can categorically state that it would tick every single box for me to consider it a "good one". Saying you can only like a car if you've owned or driven one is a ridiculous take.
Not liking something may require a few other metrics but no one listed anything they don't like
agnaddthddude@reddit
Then let me tell you this. I haven’t Driven a Veyron but I have seen it in showrooms and meets.
Your opinion and mine whether it’s a good car or not holds no value to someone who is on the tip of making the decision to buy one. and some who bought one. simply because we can not relate it to them.
On the internet anyone can be anything. But i sincerely find it hard to believe 90% of commenters hating on Ferrari online have had one.
And so any discussion about X brand is dead because they don’t cater to me anymore is nothing but a circle jerk.
XYZ company is not dead or forgotten their roots. they simply chose and target a new audience
offitcock@reddit
Someone listed ferraris they said were "good ones"
Im not sure what youre screaming at the clouds about
I have a mental list of about 8000 cars i think are "good ones" i dont need to qualify why they are on there based on whether or not ive driven or owned any of them.
agnaddthddude@reddit
You said can someone only like a car they owned or driven? I said No. they can like any car.
But they shouldn’t start hating on something they can’t afford or are not the target audience of.
offitcock@reddit
Ahhh got you.
Fair take. Hard to have an objectively negative opinion on something youve only seen in pictures.
holchansg@reddit
We just kept losting things, the 430 is an amazing car with a bad gearbox, the 458 they fixed the gearbox, is amazing, and even tho it's an automatic, one of the best engines the world have seen.
Now what do we have? What good on a Ferrari car do you have? The better chassis? Nop, the best engine? Nop, the best gearbox? Nop... Nothing, even the design, do you find the F5 beautiful?
burner94_@reddit
I'd argue the f8 and 849 were the only ones they REALLY fumbled in recent times (and now the luce, lol).
F80 is just generic but not bad looking. 12cilindri is an acquired taste and looks fantastic in person. SP1/2/3 are stunners. 296 and Roma/Amalfi are really good too
EloeOmoe@reddit
It's not a bad gearbox.
Terrh@reddit
Have you driven one?
The F1 transmission equipped car that I drove in felt like I was driving with someone who learned how to drive stick yesterday.
EloeOmoe@reddit
Yes.
I owned a 360 forever ago. I own a Maserati Coupe with one now.
The trick for them to not be awful and to lengthen your clutch life is to never, ever, ever drive them in Auto.
For my Maserati I also have some aftermarket mods that make the clutch engagement much more aggressive and more in line with how Ferrari tuned it when the final years of the 599.
goaelephant@reddit
I agree with him, its clunky. It doesnt age as well as a manual or DCT.
EloeOmoe@reddit
Both of which are outshined by EV's. Therefore, Manual and DCT are bad transmissions?
mags87@reddit
And keep it in Sport or Race mode. The F1 gear box is no where near as bad as people on the internet who've never driven one would like you to believe.
gimpwiz@reddit
A current owner tells me that the F1 gets better the harder you drive. Shit for traffic, perfectly good (for an auto) in canyons, better on track. They didn't tune it for normal driving, essentially.
EloeOmoe@reddit
Shifting over 5k is incredibly smooth.
mags87@reddit
The car in general is bad in traffic but it wasn't built for that.
Its best on the twisty roads and shifts just fine in sport or race mode when you are in the power band. The high red line lets you stay in the power band for a longer time without shifting so its not really an issue in a fun weekend drive.
janck1000@reddit
Only the V12 in the 12 Cilindri is still standing. Also looks great imo, but it's just another GT car, not really special like F12 or 812.
Manner_Mann@reddit
The 296 is best in class.
Morbidly_Off_Piste@reddit
The Purosangue is the best looking post-Pininfarina car by a long shot.
holchansg@reddit
Bro, Roma, SP1/SP2, 296...
Purosangue is ugly af.
AB365_MegaRaichu@reddit
Not to mention the 458 is one of the most beautiful modern Ferrari's, if not ever.
Jkcanwien@reddit
same engine is the maserati granturismo
The_Axumite@reddit
I prefer a real horse.
Cramer12@reddit
Secondary markets. There is no need to look any further. You can see how much the “bad” new cars are depreciating, while the “good” cars numbers are still very strong.
458s with low miles are easily a above 300k. Romas on the other hand are around 250k. They both started around 240k brand new. 458s are almost 10+ years older, have less options, less power and they made way more of them.
That just proves the 458 is a more desirable car and people want that kind of Ferrari over the new “bad” cars
FMJoey325@reddit
How are 488s doing?
mags87@reddit
488s are holding their values really well too. People love the 458 for two main reasons, Pininfarina's last design (and its absolutely gorgeous) and the naturally aspirated V8.
The 488 while still a beautiful car as its based on the 458, its not quite as good looking IMO and the engine is turbocharged.
equitymans@reddit
Ohhhhh my bad! I fully agree haha the last great Ferraris!
Sydney2London@reddit
The 458 was incredible, made the 430 look ugly and old the moment they announced it. The SP3 Daytona is one of the most beautiful cars I’ve ever seen, but there’s a lot of them now and they’re all a bit forgettable tbh. I miss the days when they had a “baby” v8, a “muscle” v12 and the 10 year hypercars.
GirchyGirchy@reddit
You lost me at SP3 Daytona being beautiful. I just can't with it, especially with the LaFerrari as its predecessor.
stupidusername@reddit
i love this take. I still think for me peak ferrari is when they just had 3 models. 3xx/4xx, 5xx/6xx, Fxx
F360/550M/Enzo F458/599/LaFerrari
anonduplo@reddit
I would call an 812, a 12Cilindri or a 296 the death of Ferrari though. They are truly amazing cars and overall praised for their look, even if the 12C is a bit more controversial.
HiIary4Prison@reddit
Isn’t the 296 one of the best driving cars from Ferrari?
TheLewJD@reddit
It is, but people hate it because it's v6 and hybrid and people don't like change. Fantastic car, i'd take one over an SF90
BigSnackStove@reddit
The 296 gets alot of hate, but in pure performance it seems really insane from all the people ive seen drive it.
holchansg@reddit
812 is amazing, the last Ferrari GT. 296 not bad, i agree, not good tho. 12Cillindri i can fuck with that, good car.
But think about it, how such few good cars, ones that are just average, and a lot of garbage. We used to have banger after banger.
uber_neutrino@reddit
After 20k miles I agree, 812 is a banger. Although I gotta say I love love love my Z06 which is basically a 458 Speciale with modern electronics.
graytotoro@reddit
Let’s not pretend they were all bangers. Ferrari has made stinkers like the 412 and Mondial.
prepare__yourself@reddit
Neither of those were as bad as the Luce
agnaddthddude@reddit
we have the purosangue. and you know what is the difference between those two? one was forced by the regulations. the other was a pure greedy decision to find a new 500k+ car to sell.
MyNameWouldntFi@reddit
The mondial was pretty shit to be fair
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
The Mondial at least has sound, feedback, and a manual.
fitnessCTanesthesia@reddit
The 812 is a god damn beauty.
kyldare@reddit
The 812 is fucking sick. Road tripped one a couple hundred miles. It’s like the Italians built a V-12 Camaro in the best possible way.
vaultdweller1223@reddit
Holy fuck is that an amazing description lol
goaelephant@reddit
The fact that they can make such a high-revving, naturally-aspirated, 12 cylinder machine that is street legal is insane.
holchansg@reddit
The last true GT.
kyldare@reddit
It's seriously underrated.
RicardoMoyer@reddit
what the hell are you talking about??
neonxmoose99@reddit
I’d say the F12 counts as a “great” Ferrari
Daneth@reddit
What about the FF?
uber_neutrino@reddit
For a while it was the best bargain in sports cars but prices look like they have rebounded. I owned one and put about 5500 miles on it, definitely a very nice modern Ferrari and one of the best lookers ever.
imightgetdownvoted@reddit
That’s not at all an unpopular opinion. It’s definitely on the list of greatest modern Ferraris.
mags87@reddit
458 is one of the most beautiful Ferraris they made.
DanielG165@reddit
How the hell are any of the Ferraris you listed bad? Lmao, huh?
GTE_Engineering@reddit
The modern “12 cylinder” is amazing
EloeOmoe@reddit
IMO they died when they dropped Pininfarina.
pvdp90@reddit
A monza sp2 is (to me) pinnacle Ferrari.
holchansg@reddit
So beautiful, v12, what a car.
dearrichard@reddit
i think the roma is fucking gorgeous
RunninOnMT@reddit
The interior on that car is nails on chalkboard though. Incredible exterior styling though, full on 100 percent agree with you there.
Capri280@reddit
He's going to be back in 2030. Ol' Luca will promptly lose a stoplight grand prix to a tuned BYD Dolphin. The luce will then be replaced by a much improved performance super EV and everyone's going to be hearing the same anecdote everytime Ferrari holds a press conference for a few decades. Mark my words ;)
holchansg@reddit
You can't tune electric cars, the entire car is crypto locked.
You will own nothing and be happy.
The Teslas that have "tuning kits" is just they flashing blobs from Teslas itself from another Trim. You can fiddle with nothing.
ly5ergic@reddit
Anything can be hacked
holchansg@reddit
Teslas are how many years now? Approaching 15y? Yeah. Good luck.
ly5ergic@reddit
People have already done it. There are 3rd party modules to unlock extra HP
Nvidia hash limited cards during the crypto mining rush were hacked and bypassed.
Nothing is impenetrable or unhackable
holchansg@reddit
Using Teslas blobs.
They did it because NVIDIA driver got stolen.
No one hacked anything.
ly5ergic@reddit
I don't know what tesla blobs are. But stealing or hacking in to steal, social engineering to steal, and the reverse engineering to modify code to have it do what you want is hacking.
I didn't say it was easy. Where did those goalposts go?? I don't see them.
holchansg@reddit
Nothing like that happened. They just took the firmware from the Performance and flashed into the base version. And just because they use the same motor.
If wasn't for Tesla having a different map on the same engine nothing would have happened. This is not hacking.
ly5ergic@reddit
If it was as simple as a flash anyone could download it and flash the ECU. That's not how it works. It's a add on module, that was made by people reversed engineering/hacking and it overrides or tricks the computer. No firmware is flashed
Flashing is an entirely different thing.
Tegumentario@reddit
Be sure to buy and install a "fuel saver OBD module" in your combustion engine car
ly5ergic@reddit
Are you all tesla fanboys in denial that Tesla isn't impenetrable?
stupidber@reddit
No
ly5ergic@reddit
Pentagon, NSA, Cars, ATMs, Teslas everything can and has been hacked. The US even hacked Iran's air gapped never connected to the internet uranium enrichment. Stuxnet look it up.
Before a "no actually" not everything has been hacked, there's tons of niche hardware and software that there is not motive or incentive for people to spend the time and effort to hack.
stupidber@reddit
Hack my toaster big boy
ly5ergic@reddit
Ok little feller? wtf?
stupidber@reddit
How you gonna hack a toaster??
happy_2_c_u@reddit
You wouldn’t steal a toaster.
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
I would. This fucker is gorgeous but I'm not paying $300 for it.
stupidber@reddit
I would definitely steal a toaster
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Get to it then
ly5ergic@reddit
It's been done. I never said I can hack anything. I hate software and coding
holchansg@reddit
Never was. They use Tesla blob. They just "sideload" another Tesla firmware from the Performance version onto the base version.
ly5ergic@reddit
There's been multiple hacks. Getting a system to do something it wasn't supposed to do or the manufacturer didn't want you to do is hacking
Here is just a few, there are way more.
https://www.hackster.io/news/voltage-glitching-puts-tesla-s-autopilot-secrets-on-display-claim-researchers-c32910c4c118
https://ingenext.ca/products/ghost-upgrade
https://techcrunch.com/2023/08/03/researchers-jailbreak-a-tesla-to-get-free-in-car-feature-upgrades/
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/3934/tesla-disables-fsd-on-jailbroken-cars-using-cheat-devices
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-remotely-hacked-by-chinese-collective-keen/
https://vicone.com/blog/under-pressure-exploring-a-zero-click-rce-vulnerability-in-teslas-tpms/
leedle1234@reddit
It's literally batteries and electric motors. Unless they have some kind of lockout on the motors themselves I don't see how this matters. Just bypass everything and power the motors with your own aftermarket controller and ECU.
Someone tuning a car to be some drag racing or track machine isn't going to care if they lose their infotainment screens and stock dash.
doscomputer@reddit
yeah I think the real factor here is that teslas are expensive, and the kind of people who build drones and gokarts just don't have the money or availability to make the mods, hence people just use firmware swapping instead of jailbreaking
RicardoMoyer@reddit
??????????
why do people love to talk about shit they know nothing about
holchansg@reddit
I actually do know about.
jezwel@reddit
The AWD BYD Atto3 is at 3.9s for 0-100 from the factory. The price difference is probably 1/20 of this Luce. 2000 era straight-line super car performance for the price of a Camry.
BYD ATTO 3 EVO | Electric SUV with 510km Range | BYD EU
maraeznieh@reddit
Using a computer to tune an engine is ironic.. but seriously the future isint in how to get .5% more out of an engine but how to get .5% out of the whole car. Those vehicles are more than an engine. They are a driver,pit crew, engineering team etc. innovation across the board is what drives those companies. The developments have been huge in aerodynamics alone. As long as there is a driver the industry will be fine
johnny_tifosi@reddit
Lol he is a fucking clown. He is the one responsible for dismantling the greatest F1 team ever, with Schumacher, Todt, Brown and Byrne, purely because of a power trip. Assuming they will not win this year either, Ferrari will now make it to 20 years without a WDC. Ferrari's car business is secondary to Scuderia.
Geisel_der_Lufte@reddit
He might have presided over Ferrari during the development of some great road cars, but he’s nearly single-handedly responsible for turning the F1 team from a juggernaut to “next year is our year” by ousting Schumacher, Todt, and Brawn. I doubt he’d be doing much better than Elkann is now.
Liam_M@reddit
as a fan of both classic cars and BEVs I agree, the thing is a horrific monstrosity. Why is it so hard to build an EV that’s designed with the same design language instead of making it look like a bad sci-fi prop
Eon-Knight9@reddit
This car doesn't even look good for an EV. The huge panel gaps, the cheap sedan form factor, it doesn't even amazing stats for an EV. It is a miss on multiple levels.
What exactly is special about this car, besides the badge that they are damaging?
Dan_TheGreat@reddit
"At least this is one car the Chinese will not copy."
Lmao
mechabeast@reddit
"Im not saying, im just saying, and if I was id say..."
strongmanass@reddit
I prefer not to speak
...
On second thought
You know what
Aggressive_Hat_9999@reddit
.............BUT......
Handsome_fart_face@reddit
Everyone acting like every Ferrari released has been a banger when in reality they’ve had many ugly cars.
theknyte@reddit
Yeah. I don't get the crowd that acts like Ferrari can do no wrong. Some of the fans have their heads up Ferrari's backside, just as much as the company own board does.
I mean you want to get to "Pure Ferrari", as in what Enzo himself preferred, well guess what? He had no interest or desire in road cars at all. He only made them, to fund his one and only love: RACING. He didn't even drive road-going Ferrari's unless he was trying to sell them. His daily drivers were a Peugeot 504, a Fiat 128, and then a Mini Cooper for years!
Every road car that's come out after Enzo's death wouldn't really impress him much. If anything, he'd be too busy tearing into the F1 team, on how they haven't won him a constructors championship since 2008!
dustygator@reddit
All of this is true, yet at the same time, the old man did have a very clear vision of what was worth putting his name on.
There is the apocryphal quote of "When you buy a Ferrari, you pay for the engine; the rest of the car I give for free". Or the more documented but crude "I don't care if the door gaps are straight, when the driver steps on the gas, I want him to shit his pants".
Dino had to convince him to make a car with less than 12 cylinders.
That said, I'm not sure he would accept the Luce for no other reason than the fact that a Lucid Air Sapphire that cost 1/3 the price would beat it around a track.
This is why Ferrari needs to buy Alfa Romeo. It gives them an avenue to pass off slop to their loyalists who want the next halo car, without cheapening the name of the main brand. It worked for Italian fashion, no reason to think it wouldn't work here.
sexarseshortage@reddit
Ferrari denied even giving Alfa the engine for the Giulia QV. It's so obvious to everyone that Ferrari can use Alfa as a sub brand sharing tech without diluting the brand.
Ferrari gave Lancia an engine for the Thema. The bullshit that they can't share engines and tech is a new development.
dustygator@reddit
The dumbest part about not doing this is that an open top Alfa with a Scuderia badge on the fender is historically & spiritually accurate!
And it's certainly more in the spirit of Enzo than the Luce or Purosangue (although one could argue for the latter as a sacrificial cash cow given his views the brand's road cars).
anotherbluemarlin@reddit
Come on, they are Ferraris with poor design but not that bad.
HiTork@reddit
To that extent, I've heard claims Enzo said something along the lines he viewed the sale of Ferrari road cars as "a necessary evil".
NothingCreative1@reddit
Name me 1 car uglier
Smoblikat@reddit
Pontiac Aztec
leedle1234@reddit
That's hard because cars uglier than this occupy that endearingly ugly space.
2naFied@reddit
There is a difference between an ugly car and a $640k Playmobil
localtuned@reddit
More like, Playdoh mobile. How did Hyundai make a better sports car than Ferrari?! And they had time to steal ideas!
ColoradoCyclist@reddit
You see, Hyundai has to appeal to their customers to sell cars. Ferrari has their customers nuts in a sling and could force them to eat cat shit in order to get an allocation and they happily would.
viperabyss@reddit
I mean, F50 literally exists...
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
True, but that doesn't look like a ferrari at all. Even the ugly ferraris still looked like they belong to the family.
Blanchimont@reddit
Oh it is a banger, but a banger in the sense that the entire automotive community is banging its head against the wall.
Car-face@reddit
This. I said it in another thread, but bar the 296, this is probably one of the best looking Ferraris since Pininfarina stopped designing them. Centro Stile need someone to come in and dress their cars, and IMO LoveFrom. did a good job of bringing restraint back to Ferrari designs.
Whether it looks "like a Ferrari" is up for debate, but the exterior design is good (not a fan of the interior, it feels like there were no constraints there and it's just pure Jony Ive for the most part).
But I also think Luca has a point - he's the guy that claimed Ferrari would never make more than 7000 cars a year, and would never make an SUV - this feels like the antithesis of what he wanted Ferrari to be, but it has nothing to do with the styling.
_Ross-@reddit
Nonsense, the 330 GT Navarro is a thing of beauty.
Just look at it
Hackwork89@reddit
It's almost impressive how far off you are.
ly5ergic@reddit
Even the ugliest Ferraris look more like a Ferrari especially if you consider when they were made.
Armored_Guardian@reddit
Ugly is just part of the problem with this car.
SacagaweasUncle@reddit
Customer: "Bring back the gated manuals." Ferrari: "Here's an innocuous electric skateboard instead. That'll be $700K to be added to allocation list, please."
NegotiationPrudent80@reddit
Perhaps Ferrari could have resurrected the Dino as an EV sub-brand and launched the Luce as that?
anonduplo@reddit
He then said “at least that’s a car that the chinese will not copy!”
DeanoPreston@reddit
Hold my Tsingtao
pibbleberrier@reddit
This, can’t leave out this legendary burn lol
KLconfidential@reddit
Most people will buy it just so they’re eligible to buy the next limited edition car with an ICE.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
Aren't they kind of forced to make cars like this now? Don't they need to hit specific fleet averages for fuel economy and/or carbon emissions? I'm thinking of this awful thing as their Aston Martin Cygnet. And yes it will basically be a cost and tax passed down onto their best customers who will shut up and pay it in order to stay in Ferrari's good graces and get their SP4 or F90 or whatever the next big thing is.
Several-Eggplant4460@reddit
If they wanted to make a Cygnet, why didn't they just do what Aston Martin did?
Take the BMW i4 M50, or the M5 as a base (depending on whether you want full electric or hybrid). Restyle the front and rear, add nicer leather and a few Ferrari cushion, sell it for $300k.
DeanoPreston@reddit
why would BMW go along with that?
Blanchimont@reddit
Ferrari still has ties to Stellantis. They could've just gone for the Maserati GranTurismo Folgore, or could've continued the MC20 Folgore development with their own styling draped over it.
ellsego@reddit
yes, they have to meet EU fleet averages for fuel consumption… no, nobody is forcing them to make a car this ugly. good looking, and electric are not mutually exclusive.
TippinThalnos@reddit
I think someone forgot to tell all the car makers this
ellsego@reddit
You maybe just aren’t looking hard enough: https://www.rimac-automobili.com
mags87@reddit
Porsche is doing well in that regard. I think the Taycan is an objectively good looking vehicle, and that goes with the Audi RS e-tron as well. And the electric Cayman looks great for a midsize suv.
Blanchimont@reddit
Porsche Taycan, Cayenne Electric and Macan Electric are good looking vehicles, Audi RS e-tron is a good looking vehicle, the Tesla Model S is a good looking vehicle, Polestar 5 is a good looking vehicle. Heck, even the new AMG GT 4-door Coupe, as much as they messed up the front end and rear end designs, shows us that you can have an EV with a sleek and sporty design. It doesn't have to be a smooth brick.
mags87@reddit
Exactly, Porsche is designing objectively good looking EVs.
Relevant_Glass_9198@reddit
All they had to do was rebadge the Maserati Gran Turismo Folgore EV, price it at 500,000 euros and release a statement saying "sorry, we're forced to do this rebadge slop because EU regulations", and everybody would ignore it or show a passing interesting in an actual good-looking Ferrari EV.
Instead, they want to be Jaguar.
Fluxx70@reddit
As part of Fiat the other brands in the group usually make up for Ferrari’s power and consumption. Whatever animus there is between Ferrari and Pininfarina is hopefully resolved soon. Between this and an SUV that looks like a Mazda crossover from 3 of its 4 sides, they are striking out.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
I heard part of them not using Pininfarina any longer was because it's no longer majority Italian owned.
dahazeyniinja@reddit
Ferrari hasn't been a part of FCA since 2016.
Wirenfeldt@reddit
Or pick one up for the wife who doesn't give a damn about cars but wants something electric..
ycnz@reddit
Hopefully she has impaired vision.
I_luv_ma_squad@reddit
“More than you can afford pal. Convenience for the wife.”
Wirenfeldt@reddit
I could not afford the wife, so her hypothetical Ferrari is probably a bust too 😋
RicardoMoyer@reddit
CEO already said that’s not the case and even asked traditional ferrari buyers to not buy this one
DanielG165@reddit
That isn’t a thing with Ferrari itself, from what I’ve heard. That practice is generally dealer-specific.
RevvCats@reddit
Oh you want new the 789 Che-Cazzo-Dammi-Solo-I-Tuoi-Soldi? Alright that will be 1 Amalfi and 4 Lucas to get on the list. Grazie
ferkaderka@reddit
Heh, that's basically what I said a month or 2 ago. Most people in that thread didn't seem to agree with me.
sandy017@reddit
this would be like if Rolex made a digital watch.
cook_poo@reddit
People are using EV as a punching bag in this thread, but that’s nearly unrelated. If this was an ICE vehicle, the reaction would be nearly identical.
izackl@reddit
Ferrari x Swatch collab level effort.
SpaceBoJangles@reddit
It looks so bad.
Compared with the Lucid Air it’s so strange this is the Ferrari.
pants_full_of_pants@reddit
Legit Lucids look far more what I'd imagine a luxury performance EV should look like. They should've hired that designer instead of Jony Ive
Sindica69@reddit
Actively inflating my ego rn
SpaceBoJangles@reddit
Lucid is a great looking EV sedan, but I’d probably take a Cross Tourismo Taycan or RS6 avant- over it in terms of looking slick.
The Sapphire Lucid though is insane.
Sindica69@reddit
Oh the taycan looks and drives fantastic. The only thing that stopped me was the Lucid’s absolutely bonkers range compared. I love taking long drives and it is very comfortable and pleasant.
ColoradoCyclist@reddit
How’s your service been? Do you live near a service center?
Sindica69@reddit
For the Lucid? No. I schedule any maintenance well ahead of time and I try to troubleshoot minor issues myself which usually works, most of the time it’s just a restart. I’ve only had one “major” issue which was my door handles not unlocking. They fixed that fairly quickly.
SpaceBoJangles@reddit
That is very true.
ColoradoCyclist@reddit
If this car was produced by Sony and designed by Apple and cost 100k. People would love it. The issue is… the badge.
Prestigious_Idea4462@reddit
the Lucid is ugly AF. It was one I was looking at after getting out of the Model 3 Performance. It looks like a spacey basketball shoe made for a Star Wars diplomat and it is ironically both huge and cramped for a tall guy like me. I test drove it and was underwhelmed. Settled on a Taycan Cross Turismo 4S – which is a beautiful and practical luxury SUV
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
If we're talking about butt ugly EV sedans, nothing beats the ioniq6.
Prestigious_Idea4462@reddit
ya that thing is almost as bad looking as a Honda Insight
twatsmaketwitts@reddit
If you compare this to a Rimac, it's absolutely terrible. It makes a Taycan look like the bargain of the decade.
Appropriate_Lemon921@reddit
I feel the same way about the Mach-E. Horses and Ponies on cars used to mean something.
Tronkfool@reddit
A scholar and a gentleman indeed
Significant-Water227@reddit
That monstrosity has put a major dent in the myth of Ferrari. Gonna be hard to recover from that….
MangoAtrocity@reddit
This and the Purosangue have done immense damage to the brand’s reputation for making street-legal race cars
Armored_Guardian@reddit
At least the Purosangue is Ferrari’s best effort at making an SUV worthy of the badge. Who else makes an SUV with a screaming NA V12? It sorta fits into their history of grand tourers, and it’s a way more compelling car than something like a Urus.
For their first EV, I was expecting a sports car like a Rimac Nevera, or at least a sports sedan like a Taycan.
krackenracer@reddit
People who hate the Puro haven’t driven it. Insanely good and the suspension is otherworldly.
doscomputer@reddit
thats great but its still fugly and doesn't look like an Italian car on the outside in any world
oh and btw you could send 6 kids to college fully paid for how much it costs
James_Vowles@reddit
What's wrong with the Purosangue? It's a v12 4 seater, I think they made it look good as well, it's just an evolution of the FF. It's like Porsche and the Cayenne. It fits much better than this thing.
MangoAtrocity@reddit
Tall. Big. 4,500 lbs.
James_Vowles@reddit
That's the nature of the beast, SUVs are the thing now, so they made an SUV version of the FF. So it didn't hurt their brand as much as this will.
eZreazy@reddit
The Purosangue is definitely the Ferrari of SUVs though and honestly fits their brand.
I wasn’t against an EV Ferrari but this one doesn’t even fit their product line at all.
hundredjono@reddit
The Purosangue at least has a V12 and one of the better looking performance SUVs out there right now.
The Ferrari Luce is a $650k Nissan Leaf with Ferrari badges.
MangoAtrocity@reddit
Oh come on, let’s be realistic. Luce is a $650k Lucid Air. It has 1,000hp.
TheWeinerThief@reddit
The purosangue is growing on me, i can't imagine this one ever will. I hope they already have a facelift in the works
willpc14@reddit
The Purosangue was the natural evolution of the FF and GTC4Lusso to meet consumer demand. I've never thought of Ferrari as making street-legal race cars. Maybe the special editions, but their bread and butter has been luxury sports cars for ages now.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
I'm honestly half-expecting them to cancel it due to poor reception. Just spin it as a failed concept or something.
WanganTunedKeiCar@reddit
The myth of Ferrari died with the 355 in my book. Not that some of the cars since haven't been great but the velvety Ferrari of old is that which I idolised.
TippinThalnos@reddit
Noooooo not redditors who aren't buying Ferraris, how will Ferrari ever recover
It's an ugly car but it won't stop people buying other ferraris
CoffeeXKing@reddit
No it won't.
Ferrari has a small buyer base, and they will continue buying from Ferrari.
Everyone else making an opinion couldn't afford it anyway.
Why do we even care about toys that the rich almost exclusively enjoy?
SalesAficionado@reddit
Huh? Because luxury brands sell status just as much as they sell products. If the pleb start thinking Ferrari makes garbage cars, the status value drops too. Wealthy buyers aren’t paying only for performance.
CoffeeXKing@reddit
Wealthy buyers pay for exclusivity. It's just like with watches. Hell that's where most of their sales stem. Selling to the 1%.
A car company I can't afford is making mistakes, and the wealthy will feel their status symbol isn't good anymore. Zero impact.
I just don't see a good reason why this should be news. But hey, I am not denying I am in a minority here
lurpeli@reddit
I've never bought into the myth of Ferrari personally. The Luce certainly fits exactly what I already thought of Ferrari which is they've rested on the name for decades
_galaga_@reddit
I was an '80s kid and I grew up on TV so the 308 from Magnum P.I. made me first aware of Ferrari and then Miami Vice seared the brand into my brain with the Testarossa (no offense to the Daytona in the early days of the show). Then, last but not least, Ferrari went a totally different direction with the F40 which still highly revered. That all happened in the '80s. Since then the 458 has come the closest to recapturing some of that juice but not much else.
eZreazy@reddit
The LaFerrari is still the most beautiful and peak of Ferrari imo for modern cars.
Pretty aptly named because it realy feels like they’ve just continued to get worse since then.
I love the Lusso and the 812 but they’re basically just refreshes and improvements of prior already great cars like the FF and the F12
SerialExperimentLean@reddit
Ferrari has had some duds over the years, as long as they don't let it spread to the reast of the lineup like when they had the 348 and the Mondial on sale they'll be ok. Plus the car isn't even out yet, it seems very unlikely but once people start driving it, who knows, it could actually be a great car
sugarfreeeyecandy@reddit
Definitely a First World problem.
ThatOneBitch02@reddit
Ditching Pininfarina was one of Ferrari's biggest mistakes. The 458 was their modern peak and its been increasingly downhill since then
MLPorsche@reddit
they've had a few bangers since 458/f12 but the consistency across their whole line-up has gone down
i would say the 296 GTB, SP3 Daytona and SP1/2 Monza are bangers and the 12cilindri, 812 Superfast, 812 Competitzione and Roma is decent
dovvv@reddit
It's been downhill since they dropped the manual. For a company that survives on nothing but emotion and passion, that decision made literally no sense.
Blanchimont@reddit
Manuals weren't selling enough to justify the costs of developing new gearboxes though. Faster and smoother shifts were all the rage back when Ferrari, just like so many other brands, made that decision and most of their buyers opted for the flappy paddle F1 gearboxes.
Plenty of petrolheads have wanted Ferrari and other manufacturers to offer manual gearboxes again in their cars, but 99% of those petrolheads are poor plebians like myself who can't afford a secondhand Ferrari, let alone a brand new one. The cry for more manual transmissions in sports cars from the folks who actually buy these cars is only a fairly recent thing.
And for what it's worth, Ferrari does seem to be listening. According to the latest rumors, they're going to reveal a 12Cilindri with a manual gearbox as soon as July. Limited production, but hey, it's a start.
Relevant_Glass_9198@reddit
You have to understand it from an Italian's perspective and the context of the year of when Ferrari stopped making manuals.
In the mid 2000's, regular people in Italy drove small hatchbacks that were almost all in manual. Upper-class people who had a 5 series, E-class, or similar were mostly had in automatic.
We didn't drive manual hatchbacks because we liked it, but it was less effort and cheaper than requesting an automatic one for the driving school or driving test. Doing your drivers license test in an automatic would also prohibit you from ever driving a manual car legally.
So this is where we started associating manual transmissions with being economical, simplicity, cheap, etc. These are not the vocabulary you want to hear when describing a supercar.
Also, in 2004, Michael Schumacher became the most famous man in Italy by winning championships in a red Ferrari with flappy paddle gearbox. So, that's what people wanted in their own Ferrari as well.
The love for manuals is only coming back now but it's still predominantly an American thing. F10 M5 manual was only available in the US. The last Holden Commodore built in Australia was an automatic.
ThatOneBitch02@reddit
True, I think their overall peak was in the 90s, but from an aesthetic perspective it's been a noticeable decline since getting rid of pininfarina after the 458 and f12.
Also, a lot of the hypercar brands still using manual proves that it's still compatible with modern, high hp designs. So idk why literally all the supercar brands abandoned it, when there's clearly still demand
ChopstickChad@reddit
6yyÿ⁶⁹ithptupotttttttttttoy
ThatOneBitch02@reddit
Did you fall asleep with reddit open?
ChopstickChad@reddit
Holy shit I did
James_Vowles@reddit
Everyone says this but the La Ferrari is brilliant, the F80 is pretty good too, I didn't like it at first but you can tell it will be iconic in a decade from now. The Daytona SP3, the Roma, the 812, 296, sf90. All well designed cars.
They have no problem designing cars, they shouldn't have given this to those lads from Apple, they should have designed it themselves.
erbot@reddit
Lol the Roma was ASS and the Almafi is almost worse especially from the head on angle. 296 and sf90 are so similar that its lazy.
But yeah sure. I also like how you left off the F80, 849, and Purosangue SUV like they dont count lmao.
krackenracer@reddit
Please explain how the 296 and SF90 are “so similar”. Completely different platforms
Because they both have 4 tires? Turbos? Hybrids? Congrats that describes a ton of cars.
But good thing Ford hasn’t milked the basic same Mustang platform for three generations…..
erbot@reddit
Im not talking about PLATFORM you idiot. Learn how to read before you open your mouth.
Also good job with the whataboutism in your argument. We're discussing FERRARI not Ford. But I wouldnt expect a dumbass like you to know the difference.
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krackenracer@reddit
I notice you didn’t answer the question. How are they “so similar”?
erbot@reddit
Front facia, side profile, and interior are almost exaclty the same.
Especially when you take into context I originally replied to you to counter your thesis that:
They do have problems designing cars. Their entire modern lineup is trash.
krackenracer@reddit
I think you will find most manufacturers have a design language they follow for each generation - just like BMW or Audi. Not every model is completely different from each other, for both cost reasons and cohesive brand identity. And unlike you, I’ve actually owned a 296 and SF90 and I can assure you that the side profiles and interiors are actually NOT that similar. Front fascia was sculpted based on airflow and they do look somewhat close.
As you believe that their “entire modern lineup is trash”, that tells me you’ve never actually driven or tracked one 😛. That’s the saving grace for everything stupid the brand tends to do.
And to be clear, the Luce is the single worst decision in the history of the company.
krackenracer@reddit
It's the most head scratching thing ever as to why this car exists. They did expand the factory to handle the new EVs, and it feels like they just couldn't change course no matter what.
It's an abomination.
1-Word-Answers@reddit
SP3 and F80 have beautiful design, that’s about it recently
Abhimanyu_Uchiha@reddit
Marchese di montezemolo is based af
MechMeister@reddit
Can we stop caring what stupidly rich people buy with their money.
No one commenting here has any skin in the game. Spend your car energy talking about cool shit that we actually drive.
Averageinternetdoge@reddit
Lol, I can't remember any cars which are cool & affordable.
time_alliance@reddit
That's such a brutal but honest take from Montezemolo. Dude doesn't mince words when it comes to protecting the Ferrari myth.
MelancholyDick@reddit
What if they called it a Dino?
BigSnackStove@reddit
Why not Dinosaur?
rawr 🦖
Mustang2883738828278@reddit
2026 where Chevy is building a 60k Ferrari and Ferrari is building a 650k Prius
M3Core@reddit
The Ferrari brand has already been massively uninteresting since the 458. It feels like they're crapping out hybrid slop while other competitive brands are listening to what drivers and enthusiasts want (barring the prices of course).
Manner_Mann@reddit
Should have looked at Porsche lol.
jianh1989@reddit
Also Luca: this is a car not even the Chinese would copy.
Rectal_Retribution@reddit
I don't think we'd be having this conversation if it came from a "softer" brand like Toyota or Honda, or even a brand-new startup. The car isn't bad, and it's not uglier than your average EV. It's being scrutinized in the context of Ferrari, which is a whole different kind of audience.
Imagine the controversy if Samsung released their next phone with iOS instead of Android. That's what this is.
James_Vowles@reddit
Last person to be taught by Enzo himself, he understands. If you're wondering what Enzo Ferrari thinks it's probably what he says
LongjumpingLock5875@reddit (OP)
You can just look at Enzo's comments directly also.
The entire point of the Luce is aerodynamics.
Enzo: "Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines."
klokr@reddit
But this cars aerodynamics is not even that good lol, it has already outdated design and even EV platform...
mcarther101@reddit
Hideous shit-box. Why wouldn’t someone just buy a Prius. At least the Toyota is true to brand and looks good still, while saving a few buckets of cash.
I_luv_ma_squad@reddit
Who ever is making the retro Pizza Huts should be hired by Ferrari asap
cookingboy@reddit
I’m starting to think Jony Ive really can’t operate at the highest level without someone with even more credential and ego like Steve Jobs to keep him in check.
LazyGandalf@reddit
I can't find anywhere that he designed the exterior.
hatchbacks@reddit
Did Ive design this? The fucking iPod guy?
cookingboy@reddit
Yep
hatchbacks@reddit
Explains a lot tbh
cultoftheilluminati@reddit
Jony Ive did the same thing at Ferrari that he got kicked out of Apple for lol. He’s made some iconic stuff but for that like you said he needs a strong hand who understands design to tell him “fuck no, that looks like shit”.
Weirdly, Ferrari would’ve been the company I’d have bet on reining him in given their pride and ego (which is ingrained in their company culture, as you can see it bleed out in F1 too) but it looks like they let the dude run wild. That’s how you end up with failing MacBook keyboards and overheating Macs.
flextrek_whipsnake@reddit
Maybe he's just bad at design
kqlx@reddit
looks like an econobox. We want to see an electric F40
J1mj0hns0n@reddit
He's right
rand0m__pers0n@reddit
If Clarkson’s theory is true, next year gotta be our year.
AcanthaceaeNo948@reddit
It has never been true. Some of Ferrari’s best cars came out in the early 2000s and late 2000s. Not to mention the 50s, 60s and 70s.
GaviFromThePod@reddit
Ferrari is a publicly traded company with shareholders and PE, it is no longer a man selling cars so he can pay for going racing.
nickN42@reddit
I'm sure shareholders really appreciated almost 10% stock price drop after the announcement.
BulaBulangiu@reddit
You mean going down to last week's price ? Or that their stock price was even lower 2 weeks ago ?
You should read more than titles, there's other info in those so called "articles" :)
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RACE/
fiero-fire@reddit
That's a hell of indictment from Luca
The_Flying_Sausage@reddit
Yep, and he's 100% spot on.
KingMario05@reddit
Agreed. Cancel it. Or sell it to the Chinese. Either or works. Just make the Luce fucking disappear already.
kenvsryu@reddit
This is what you get when Jony Ive doesn’t copy Dieter Rams.
CallLivesMatter@reddit
I’d like to report a murder.
Kongary@reddit
This thing is really making its mark. My big market local news channel had the news snippet about it and even the anchors were bantering with each other essentially dumping on it before going to sports lol.
ZaheerAlGhul@reddit
Decades of brand building have been destroyed within the last couple of years
M4roon@reddit
First, welcome comment.
Second, how does the hive mind think Ferrari should actually handle this?
I think founding a secondary branch, an offshoot of Ferrari, focusing on high end electric cars and hybrids, while retaining the purebred Ferrari brand as a distinct entity would have been the correct way to go about it.
YoungBasedGod5@reddit
What did he really want to say?
Training-Expert5598@reddit
Aka he doesn't want to get sued.
rawlaw8@reddit
How can anyone greenlight this as a Ferrari ? Stain on the leadership
Seref15@reddit
The thing I understand least is the plastic cladding around the wheel wells. Thats econobox shit.
krackenracer@reddit
There is literally not a single element on the exterior that is desirable. How do you even manage that?
constant-hunger@reddit
I agree, replace the badge with Fiat and the world will heal again.
crshbndct@reddit
Mazda also made a Luce 50 years ago.
I know which one I would buy.
Lug-Shot@reddit
He was in charge when they released some of the most amazing cars. Cars you just wanted to sit in and drive - this luce is a cartoon taxi cab
November87@reddit
The last good Ferrari was the LaFerrari
ikilledtupac@reddit
Jony Ive strikes again.
EcstaticAsparagus509@reddit
"Unapologetically plastic" cit.
Rynyann@reddit
Gotta call it a Dino
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
Can't believe how much they're out of touch. You should hire one of the best Italian studios to build hype for your first ever EV and to build a proper beautiful car, not an iphone guy who created a car that looks worse than a Nissan Leaf.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
If this is what he's saying censored I'd hate (love) to hear his unfiltered opinion.
Marshall_Lawson@reddit
I'm sure it would be fun to read. Italians are good at insults.
BusinessLunch45@reddit
I don’t think it will be the sales flop people say it will.
Otherwise-Ask7900@reddit
Whoa.
lNlinja@reddit
I’m not picky on supercars (lol) but this one is tough to look at
lord_miller@reddit
How do these Ferrari execs have jobs? I can imagine a million people in Rome alone have better ideas for the brand.
Shalashaska19@reddit
Partnering with jony was their biggest mistake. Dude is a major tech fluffer.
slmask@reddit
I guess now we need somebody to make a "Speak Up for Ferrari" video on Youtube. I do admit the exterior is a bit... much but the interior, especially the dash is solid.
DerpDerpDerpBanana@reddit
If this thing had a Toyota badge and you told me this was the next gen Prius concept, I'd believe you.
IJstDntKnwShtAnymore@reddit
I finally get why it looks like something Tim Apple would push, it was designed by the same kind of people!
ET__@reddit
Being roasted for doing something different is so very 2026
Good_Air_7192@reddit
It's not different, that's the problem, it's the most boring, generic EV looking thing. I can't believe this is what the execs at Ferrari settled on. At least they usually come up with some good designs, this looks like an I-Pace with suicide doors.
pibbleberrier@reddit
Well they hire Jony Ive. Someone only Steve Job can reel in.
Expectable result lol.
ET__@reddit
Yea and a bunch of dumb tech dorks will buy them all up. You know, all 200 or however small amount they make. It’s just another vehicle people
Luis0224@reddit
Idk if this applies here. It’s not that it’s different, it’s just that it’s ugly, offers worse performance than budget competitors, and is priced way outside of the price range it could realistically target.
It looks like a dodge dart and Hyundai sonata had a baby, and the baby was built like the pillsbury dough boy.
If we wanna talk about a brand doing something wildly different than what they’re known for, Hyundai’s pony coupe/DeLorean inspired N Vision 74 has been unanimously praised for its looks, limited to a 200 car run, and half the price of the Luce.
ET__@reddit
Are you comparing the Hyundai brand to Ferrari? Y’all have some pretty unhinged snap judgements. I like the way it looks, I think it’s pretty rad, and I think you’re not really looking at any of the details. Just my opinion. We each get one
bearfan15@reddit
What else are you gonna compare this thing to? Certainly not actual supercars lmao. This is gonna be ferraris EQS but it will do even more damage to the brand.
Luis0224@reddit
Im referring to a company design something outside of their usual styling.
You’re entitled to an opinion, it just so happens an overwhelming majority are of the opinion that it’s ugly as sin.
>not looking at the details
What details? It has no lines. Remove the Ferrari wheels and badging and the exterior looks like a generic EV.
Not surprised Jony Ive designed it, because this is exactly the type of industrial design tech companies like to put out
AmbitiousEconomics@reddit
Also hydrogen fuel cell powered which is a bummer.
austinmiles@reddit
Luce:Ferrari:: Mustang Mach E:Ford
racefever@reddit
It’s a Ferrari with an extra chromosome.
Mgroppi83@reddit
Read alot of comments. Ferrari along with many other companies lost in the HP arms race. Development has changed the original goal of super car makers. There is no 'soul' left in vehicles. Only time trials.
A_Pointy_Rock@reddit
This is dangerously close to man yells at cloud.
We get it - the car community isn't a fan of the new Ferrari EV. The world has not ended and Ferrari and other brands continue to produce many other cars.
LongjumpingLock5875@reddit (OP)
I feel like a direct assistant of Enzo Ferrari, and the former president of Ferrari saying something like this might mean a little more then anyone on the internet saying anything.
A_Pointy_Rock@reddit
It certainly would have 20 years ago. The world is moving towards electrification, so it's safe to assume that Ferrari will need to evolve too.
Is this car a representation of the way it needs to evolve? Initial responses suggest it is not, but evolve it likely will still need to.
ly5ergic@reddit
I don't think it being an EV is the issue. They could have made an EV that looked like a Ferrari. Instead it looks like a 2030 Toyota Prius
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
Ah ok so you’re just one of those die hard pro EV guys
I wondered why your comment didn’t make any sense, but it was to shoehorn your opinion into the story.
A_Pointy_Rock@reddit
I didn't say Ferrari needed to go all in on EVs, but it's logical to assume that they will need to evolve in one way or another.
That's what happens when the market changes.
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
No, you just used a tired reddit quip that doesn’t work in this situation because you’re a huge EV guy
ggouge@reddit
Ya I was excited about the Luce. Then I saw the interior and hoped that the exterior would be amazing to make up for it. It was not. It looks like what people said cars would look like in the future in the 80s.
Jaxraged@reddit
If it looked like the Rimac it wouldn’t be shot on nearly as much. You can’t edit make EVs look good.
mundotaku@reddit
Particularly when he led very amazing cars for the brand.
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
Yeah I thought it was a weird comment too.
Vulnox@reddit
I am a huge EV enthusiast, but that car is not a good looking vehicle, and certainly not for Ferrari. I don’t even see most of the hate about it being an EV, but that the vehicle design itself is very soulless from a company known for making some gorgeous vehicles.
As evidence, Porsche has some of the best looking EVs and I see almost entirely positive comments about them from the car community with most complaints just being the price.
CorrectCombination11@reddit
I think it would've been a great Maserati.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Maseratis have two redeeming qualities. Good looks and good sounding engines. This has neither.
Bravoflysociety@reddit
hoardin f40s it sounds.
alfredadamski@reddit
How much someone would have one to pay Ferrari to build a one-off V8 non-hybrid, mid-engine, manual transmission car, gated shifter with retro-design based on the F355 (design brief for designer: imagine Ferrari had never stopped producing the F355 and had evolved the basic design of it over all time like Porsche did with the 911 (I know the 911 has grown and only shares the "basic shape" with the first 911), get Frank Stephenson on the phone for a design proposal), preferably with pop-up headlights other similiarly gimicky headlights.
Substantial-Today166@reddit
people that can afford a ferrari don't want an ev same happend with rolls royce spectre
Vict0o0o@reddit
I haven't found a desirable Ferrari since the F355-F40 era. They are ugly ever since. The 360 looks like a turd. Lamborghini is king.
RedditPoster05@reddit
Oh, that’s destroying the myth not all the BS with buying these things…
Ok_Goat_8698@reddit
Blue hair approved
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willpc14@reddit
What the fuck does that even mean
Possible-Put8922@reddit
Someone Photoshop it into the perrari
albiorix_@reddit
Modena to Mountain view.
guy-anderson@reddit
Even knowing that it never would have sold, they really should have pushed to for their first EV model to be a bold, low, 2 seater coupe.
They could have quietly followed up with their embarrassing 4 seat EV jellybean later and it probably would've quietly moved some units.
kon---@reddit
Round about way to say Ferrari threw up in its own lap while they were shitting the bed.