NTSB recommends FAA update Runway Condition Assessment Matrix (RCAM). The recommendations follow NTSB investigations of 11 runway overrun accidents and incidents.
Posted by Brilliant_Night7643@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 18 comments
22Planeguy@reddit
Runway conditions is one part of aviation that has never quite sat right with me. There are so many vaguely worded definitions and word-of-mouth interpretations for it. The testing equipment varies widely from airport to airport. I've heard rumors of wet being "we patted a napkin on the runway and it came up damp."
I've had several occasions where it's raining and the field is reported as dry, or it's dry and has been dry but they're calling wet. Sometimes we'll get a "standing water" when in reality there's a puddle on the overrun. Not a huge deal to get more braking action than expected, but I've been in situations where we had to offload gas to be able to takeoff with poor runway conditions.
My understanding from talking to the airfield ops guys is they do their best to make a rational call, but it's difficult to say a runway is dry when there's a puddle because god forbid an accident does occur.
The engineer in me knows that there isn't going to be some elegant solution to this that just scans the runway and spits out a number that we throw into our performance calculators, but it does feel like there should be a better solution.
LaMortParLeSnuSnu@reddit
Absolutely agree. Current system can feel so cryptic and unusable.
ohiowrestler138@reddit
They have friction testers. My understanding is they aren't totally accurate because it's impossible to exactly replicate the action from a much bigger and heavier jet tire.
Also see Airbus: the plane computes braking action, shows it to the pilots so they can complain, and uplinks it automatically.
Aeternitas97@reddit
Airport Ops guy here. The CFME we have now is a great tool, but is still only a tool. There are plenty of times in winter ops where Mu values alone don’t tell the whole story.
The RCAM is ultimately still highly objective and is ultimately up to the interpretation of the person putting their name on the FICON. CYA is ultimately the name of the game, even with the best of intentions.
DebtUpToMyEyeballs@reddit
Ultimately, that's true.
Aeternitas97@reddit
Ultimately, I didn’t proofread this well enough.
22Planeguy@reddit
Yeah, friction testers are part of my issue for exactly that reason. That and every airport uses a different kind that produces a different result, or they just don't have the money to buy one.
I don't have a solution really, I'm mostly just complaining for the sake of it. Anything I can come up with is either too expensive to hope even medium delta fields invest, is too complex or variable, or only applies to fields that airlines fly through (like that airbus thing).
DashTrash21@reddit
Keep in mind those reports are nearly worthless as soon as they are issued in active conditions.
As for having a quantitative measurement rather than a qualitative eyeball measurement from the 68 year old airport ops worker who can't see past the hood of the truck and his 22 year old drug dealer apprentice, there was the Canadian Runway Friction Index that would measure braking action, but was scrapped for the new standard instead of being updated (it was tested a long time ago by a Falcon 10 and was extremely restrictive).
WolfInMen@reddit
I wish the NTSB could make rules
spazturtle@reddit
Then the political pressure would be put on them instead of the FAA. The NTSB are only able to make these suggestions free from political influence because they can't make rules.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
I love how the image is one that has nothing to do with the RCAM and everything to do with poor decision making.
Inspired-User2026@reddit
NAS Jax incident?
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
Yeah, the Miami Air charter
railtester@reddit
I live right across the river from that one. I did not live when it occurred tho.
pilotshashi@reddit
Miami Air
V12Jaguar@reddit
Will that aircraft be re-habbed or scrapped?
SkippyNordquist@reddit
The overrun in the picture is from 2018 and the aircraft was written off. There's a good Mentour Pilot about the incident (if you can get past the overdramatic clickbait thumbnail):
https://youtu.be/CG8XziSdLgg
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