China Expands Travel Curbs to Top AI Talent at Private Firms
Posted by Ok_Warning2146@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 43 comments
Now it will be much harder to poach Chinese AI talents like the former Qwen head Junyang Lin. It is quite sad that they will also have a hard time to travel to foreign countries for fun.
Non-paywalled version from Straits Times:
skywalker326@reddit
As a Chinese, let me explain. it's to prevent them being detained in US allies and sent to US charged for some bullshit reason like national security and intelligence theft.
US started this predator practice with Huawei's CFO and in the past few years more than couple Chinese corp leaders during their vacation in Europe. And US can just make up accusations and lost in the court, several years have past, destroying theyr career and interrupting the corporation.
Given all the accuse "distill is theft", US would definitely expand it to AI talents. So China is also expanding the passport control as well.
Keirtain@reddit
“We’re not taking your passport to punish you, we’re taking it to protect you from the West.”
I can’t roll my eyes any harder.
skywalker326@reddit
you and your country never lived under US predatory action. Just last month boss of a container shipping company is arrested in Italy and then sent to the US for "jacking up shipping cost", of course, the scapegoat of skyrocketed inflation that's the result US' own reckless war and policy.
One day your country will be on the menu of US as well and you will understand. Or better you are an US citizen then you are already on the menu of your own government
Keirtain@reddit
So, it's "jacking up shipping costs" in the sense that all organized crime impacts pricing. It's also not related to the Iran war since the period is from 2019-2024.
In any case: Good fucking riddance. I hope they arrested the other 6, too.
EtadanikM@reddit
The question is why an US law has jurisdiction on actions taken by foreign persons on foreign soil. It’s the long arm jurisdiction of the US that treats other country’s laws as negotiable but its own laws as globally enforceable that aggravates such “paranoid” actions.
Keirtain@reddit
Ignoring the propaganda-laden description of the US justice system, the fact of the matter is that these execs aren’t exclusively engaged in “actions taken by foreign persons on foreign soil” when they’re engaged in international commerce. Similarly, Chinese companies don’t have the right to sell into Europe and then pretend that the GDPR doesn’t apply to them.
I’ll also note that the US administration recently visited China, and Marco Rubio had to get assurances from the Chinese that he wouldn’t be arrested for exactly the issue that you raise - that the Chinese have sanctioned him personally as a result of US policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/may/13/marco-rubio-china-visit-new-character-name-trump-summit
So, what would the rest of the world do? Not visit China, apparently. And if China had an extradition treaty with Singapore to enforce its sanctions, I wouldn’t recommend that Amodei or Rubio visit there either.
EtadanikM@reddit
So then you understand why the Chinese government are restricting key scientists from leaving the country. Because the long arm of US jurisdiction means it can arrest people almost any where.
Ok_Warning2146@reddit (OP)
Well then. the Chinese AI researchers already outside China will be less likely to return to China. Overall, this will be a bad move. Especially when there is not yet a single case of AI talents arrested by the US government.
EtadanikM@reddit
China hasn't arrested any AI talents. "Needing to get approval to travel overseas" is not the same as "arrested." What the **** is this argument even.
Keirtain@reddit
The idea that the CCP is banning these people from traveling for some altruistic reason as opposed to being worried that they might jump ship to somewhere that won’t take their passport and turn them into a prisoner is just delusional.
EtadanikM@reddit
Both can be true, and neither is altruistic (it is self-serving to prevent your top researchers from getting poached, arrested, OR compromised by foreign intelligence).
The bottom line is the same - it is the practical thing to do.
Keirtain@reddit
Yes, it's very "practical" for a country that believes its population is chattel to take their visas when they might do something that the government doesn't like.
It's absurd and offensive to those countries and people that aren't keen on slavery or restrictions on the freedom of movement, and it certainly doesn't happen in the west - contrary to the whataboutism in this thread - but it's certainly "practical."
EtadanikM@reddit
It happens very much in the West. I know people who can’t travel to China or any other “adversary” country just because they or their family work in secret AI projects.
Keirtain@reddit
This is such nonsense.
I said it elsewhere in this thread, and I will say it again: "restrictions on traveling abroad" is miles away from "restrictions on traveling to a perceived foreign adversary." To go a step further, none of those folks are even prohibited from going to China. What they're subject to is a potential loss of their security clearance or their job.
The CCP has treated its citizens as chattel for 50 years -- including through the regular use of exit bans -- and nothing has changed in the era of AI. It's still despicable.
EtadanikM@reddit
Restrictions on traveling broad were previously only targeted at the US, but after the US demonstrated long-arm jurisdiction across the globe, even those nominally "neutral" like Switzerland, it was escalated. This matches what I said earlier about it being a defensive move.
You should read what the article actually said:
Nothing here says it is a blanket ban. It just says they need to apply for approval. Unlikely travels to Chinese partner countries like Russia, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, most of Southeast Asia and Africa, etc. would be banned.
Exit restrictions are widely used around the world for people with security clearances, and the people in top Chinese labs that this applies to, almost certainly do. There's nothing in the article that indicates it would affect random employees, only key persons with knowledge of Chinese AI secrets.
Ok_Warning2146@reddit (OP)
I know China arrested Manus AI founders. Any AI people arrested by the US?
EtadanikM@reddit
Manus AI founders have not been arrested. They are barred from leaving the country while the Meta acquisition deal is under review.
carrot_2333@reddit
why are you debating with a braindead Wumao?
skywalker326@reddit
Reasoning is complete bullshit. During the covid major ports on West coast are already jammed due to inablibility of US port to off load container and news are all over the place. Container shortage would affect US price at all.
Law enforcement is also bullshit. None of the company being accused gets court orders and are aware of the law suit. To them, it's an ambush. Then the good old exterritorial practice. If Chinese companies under US law just because they sell to the US, then I am pretty sure CEOs of Boeing, GE, Oracle…violated numerous Chinese national security laws with regard to collaboration with adversary military. Most pharmaceutical and food industry violated Chinese food and drug laws in safety and experiments as well. They should be caught when visiting China and countries with extradition treaty with China? Btw there are 60, including France and Italy.
Finally, the law itself is utterly unfair. OPEC price fixing oil price for decades and they openly announce price cap, production quota and monitoring plan. 0 management from OPEC oil and gas companies is arrested. Clearly this law is extremely selective based on politics.
Keirtain@reddit
I don't think that other macro-economic events making your crime less effective makes it not a crime. Also, the suggestion that a container shortage wouldn't affect prices is absurd on its face.
They were indicted a week ago. Criminals often aren't informed of indictments in advance. It tends to make it harder to arrest them for their crimes.
This has nothing to do with any military collaboration. It's related to anti-trust behaviors where the execs secretly conspired to reduce shipping container production in order to increase prices. If Boeing or other US execs did that, it would also be a crime in the US, Europe, and presumably China.
If they're committing crimes that have been on the books for more than a century as opposed to just being used as a straw man with no evidence? Sure, that is what one would expect.
OPEC isn't a collection of companies engaged in anti-trust behavior, it's a collection of countries engaged in anti-trust behavior and setting policy for the companies in their respective countries. The US (and probably other countries) have tried to bring similar actions against OPEC for years, but they never work since foreign governments are generally immune to similar prosecutions. If China would like to take off the mask and admit that all of these shipping companies are really just the CCP in a trench coat, then maybe this case will go similarly.
Is it the politics of the CCP to engage in crimes? If so, then I guess it is about politics. I doubt that's the case though.
skywalker326@reddit
OPEC policy is carried out by their oil companies. If US want, they can just arrest these companies' management, just like this time. But no, US hasn't becuase it will be destroy US influence in the middleeast. That's why it comes up bullshit explanation like OPEC is a government organization so they are immune to US law. And you know this logic is bullshit becuase US just kidnapped Maduro who is the president of Venezuela, where is the government immunity now?
Let's be honest. US just do what it wants given the economic and political benefits. Then pick the explanation to pretend it's about the law. If China behaves like US, it would have arrested Boeing CEO two weeks ago, citing the Boeing has sold weapons to Taiwain which breaks China's Anti-Secession Law.
carrot_2333@reddit
傻逼东西还as a chinese呢 肉身都翻墙了思维还停留在墙内 脑子不正常吗 滚回你b站小红书去
Sudden_Vegetable6844@reddit
Still is very silly, that's a stick, it's a negative incentive. If made up charges are a problem, just grant diplomatic immunity to your top talent, that would be a carrot.
WestCloud8216@reddit
America will not respect the international rules. You know that.
Kutoru@reddit
This is bogus. To begin with, nobody is completely innocent. Everyone tolerates dirt to a certain extent - this just means when there is a pretext the dirt starts becoming an issue.
This happens with any country, even China does it. It just seems like US is the main sphere for this because lo and behold, the western "union" is for better or worse still more cohesive and ideologically more similar compared to the east.
BitGreen1270@reddit
Bizarre measures for bizarre times.
Dany0@reddit
Roko's Bizzarisk
unspecified_person11@reddit
Oof, the one thing guaranteed to make people want to leave is to tell them they have no choice but to stay.
Material_Policy6327@reddit
Stuff like that’s gonna start happening in the states I bet
Dry_Yam_4597@reddit
Meanwhile the US is making people leave.
ZBoblq@reddit
The one thing guaranteed to make people want to leave is destroying their country.
MathmoKiwi@reddit
I wonder how much that demotivates people from working hard to be the very best in AI?
Much better to be the 1000th best, so you can still freely ish move in and out of the country.
LocoMod@reddit
China has convinced Reddit that they are the good guys cause they us cake. And we love cake don’t we?
Remember from now on that those sweet open weight models were made by prisoners in order to divert your attention from the thing they fear most. As they should.
It’s working.
Keirtain@reddit
Literal quote from elsewhere in this thread:
The downward slide that this sub has taken is unreal.
Automatic-Arm8153@reddit
Who are the good guys in your opinion?
GreenGreasyGreasels@reddit
People who work in sensitive areas - nuclear, exotic weapons , intelligence related fields already have both hard and soft constraints on them moving freely internationally depending upon their country.
Quite interesting that China considers AI/ML in that category.
edrobap@reddit
I wonder if other countries / region want to do something similar as the AI race heats up. EU, Canada do have good AI companies and talent
UncleRedz@reddit
It's already happening in US, sort of. Chinese people working in US companies such as Meta etc, who are fired, are prevented from leaving the country. Read about a case recently where the person had not even been working on LLMs or any of the secret stuff, but were still detained when trying to leave and it's a multi month process to be able to leave.
Keirtain@reddit
Source? This sounds like utter horseshit.
Ok_Warning2146@reddit (OP)
Really? Any credible source reporting this news? Is there an executive order specifically for this?
ProfessionalJackals@reddit
Really? Because beyond mistral in France, there does not seem to be anything from Europe that has any notoriety.
It seem that anybody worth their salt is already pouched a long time ago.
Ok_Warning2146@reddit (OP)
AI is bigger than just LLM. DeepMind is based in UK. Black Forests Lab who made flux1 is based in Germany.
Thin_Pollution8843@reddit
If that so serious- that means chinas government sees that as strategic. That means AI applications in military/health care/agricultural applications.