Crossed half of France in a J-3 Cub at 500ft AGL with the door open. AMA

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Potential_Arm3704@reddit

I wanna fly to France too this year. Can you tell me if the smaller airfield staff speaks English? I'm from germany and only speak english end german.

How was your trip? Did you use flight following or is there no such thing in France?

Greetings from Germany 🫡

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JSTootell@reddit

Anecdote:

I traveled to France a couple decades ago for vacation. Ended up in a smaller town on accident (another story) and really struggled to communicate.

But, that was before smart phones. And it wasn't related to flying small planes.

(Also, loved France, even if I looked like a dumb American 😂)

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

I’m France they have the so called SIV which is like flight following. Very useful!

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Most smaller airfields in France are French RT only. Maybe print out a cheat sheet to read out when you're approaching the airfield. Outside of that the FIS speak English. I think most French pilots will understand you if you speak English even at the airfield but if you want to be perfectly by the book then a cheat sheet is one way to go.

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False_Measurement843@reddit

Only half?

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to share a quick summary of an incredible flying weekend that I completed yesterday. I logged about 10 flight hours in 4 days.

The plan was to meet some friends in Picardy (Northern France). We took off from Switzerland, so we had to clear customs in Beaune (LFGF) first. We didn't over-plan the itinerary; our goal was to just wing it along the way based on our mood. Thanks to amazing weather during the whole trip, it was super easy to do so. There is a runway almost everywhere in France!

We ended up making stops at multiple small airfields along the way, and stayed overnight in Troyes, Compiègne, and Beaune. The local hospitality was unmatched; people were so friendly and helpful, and the food was amazing.

To get from the airfields to the town centers and back, we just hitchhiked. We never had to wait very long; local people were so curious and fascinated by our way of traveling that they were happy to give us a ride and chat.

The J-3 was a huge conversation starter. At Troyes, the firefighters, customs officers, and the AFIS controller actually walked out to the tarmac just to check out the airplane and chat about aviation.

We flew most of the trip at 500ft AGL, door completely open, following the terrain, dodging windmills, and smelling the fields below. Pure "stick and rudder" flying at 70 knots. We only had to divert once because my passenger started to feel a bit sick due to the thermal turbulence in the afternoon.

Feel free to ask me anything about the logistics if you plan to fly in France/Europe one day!

Clear skies!

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MathewARG@reddit

What a great experience to live. Thanks for sharing!

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Bluedevil1992@reddit

Hopefully you got a bottle or two of Hospice de Beaune burgundy as a souvenir! Such a pretty region.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Already drunk them all! Yes beautiful!!

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

Great fun until the engine stops.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Best glide speed, trim, deep breathe and land on one of the huge field below!

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

500 AGL does not give you much time to sort it out. I've landed off-airport. You should try it.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Yes, I am aware of that and accept the risk. Over big forest I climbed a little bit more though.

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

I'm okay with that. Personal choice. Like riding a motorcycle.

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atthemattin@reddit

It's a lot different sorting out a j3 than it is flying a 172. I fly 500agl plenty. You aren't restarting most cubs since they don't have starters. You just land. Which when your stall speed is 35mph, you're able to land smooth off field

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

I flew a C182 once in the high peaks of CO. I fly Taylorcraft B, no starter, and glider. My tailwheel instructor had five lifetime engine failures. He mostly flew cropdusters and gliders, aside from big planes in the Air Force. We did all of our landings as PO180s. He would periodically ask, 'where would you land right now?' and often 'would you make the runway if the engine stopped?' because that's was his constant internal dialog.

At 500 in a Cub, you won't have much choice about where you touch down. Even in Ag areas, there are lots of hazards. Wires, ditches, livestock, down slopes, trees, structures, roads, swampy ground, crops higher than 12". There are places where you can fly safely at 500, you don't even need an engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ILC83DCos But flying eight hours across France, there are a lot places where you will benefit from small adjustments to landing direction and track after the engine stops. The Startle Factor will rob you of a few seconds.

Prove it to yourself: 500, throttle to idle, drop to 10 foot, and see what you're going to hit. Try the same thing from 1000-1500.

One can take a fatalistic approach, 'if the engine fails, I'll just crash.' That's an airplane pilot attitude. It's often possible to land off-airport with no damage/injury. Almost all off-airport glider landings with damage happen to people who commit to the landing too low or too late. There are 1000s of examples with both good and bad outcomes.

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metric-puppy@reddit

Did you read Flight of Passage by any chance?

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JJohnston015@reddit

I'm told that there is a landing fee for every landing at every airport in Europe. Is that true? Did you have to pay for every touch and go?

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phaederus@reddit

Not sure about the rest of Europe, but that's the case in Switzerland. Usually airports have one fee for T&G and one for Landings/Full Stops.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Yes, I pay $20 per landing including touch and goes in Switzerland. That’s absurd

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JJohnston015@reddit

I wouldn't like it, but I could live with it, IF there was total transparency about where the money was going, and that it was going to maintain the airport. But here in the US, it seems like every week, another "revenue diversion" scheme comes to light.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

I am pretty confident the money is well used. So yes you are right!

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phaederus@reddit

Airports hate this one simple trick - just don't touch!

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Generally yes, the airports need to fund their operations somehow, and they do by charging the users of the infrastructure.

Charging for touch and goes depends on the airfield - some do it, some don't.

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shadeyyyy_@reddit

Nice! I will take a test flight and eventually start my PPL when I turn 17. I have my flight on June 6th, on a Diamond DA20 with the callsign HB-SGL. I am excited for it and I can't wait to become a pilot one day... Atleast a private pilot 😄

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Nice! I flew the DA20 a little bit, very nice aircraft you will enjoy! Come say hi to LSGE when you start your navigation flights 😉

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heck04567@reddit

That’s what the US Air Force starts on!

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shadeyyyy_@reddit

One day...

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shadeyyyy_@reddit

Sure! I'll look to include that into my flight path. Hopefully we will turn the transponder on, then you can track my flight! Remember: HB-SGL

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phaederus@reddit

Hello from LSPV neighbour :)

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shadeyyyy_@reddit

Äch, lueg e mol, Wangen-Lachen!

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

Hi! You are welcome as well haha

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dvcxfg@reddit

Why is "stick and rudder" in quotes?

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

because it is an idiom

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dvcxfg@reddit

Why did the Queen invent English?

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ENdeR_KiLLza@reddit

Dude that's so cool, I've been dreaming of taking such a trip for years but I never managed to find the time and the money ! Perfect weather to do this right now as well, glad you had a blast flying here 😄

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blubber41@reddit

How does long range VFR flying work in France? Or in Europe in general. Asking as an American.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

There are many controlled area that’s true but if you fly low you can usually avoid them. Or just ask to fly through, usually they let you. There are some VFR transit for that reason in some areas.

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ENdeR_KiLLza@reddit

If you fly low you avoid most of them yes, but please look outside since there will be many fighter jets at 500ft AGL, especially in the North Eastern part of France !

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spectrumero@reddit

In the UK most airspace at GA levels is uncontrolled (generally it's class G up to an altitude my aircraft can't get to). Where there are airline airports, there is a volume of controlled airspace associated with it, but you do exactly the same as you do in the USA - you just call them on the radio and request a transit.

Some areas have transit corridors, e.g. between Liverpool and Manchester where you have two pretty busy airports, where you can transit VFR without talking to ATC.

Airspace structure varies from country to country, you can't really generalise with "Europe" like you can generalise about the USA. Probably the biggest shock to the US pilot would be the low level class A airspace near some airports, although generally it doesn't get in the way of typical GA flying.

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nexxic@reddit

Anything in particular you wanna know? It's quite easy, sometimes it requires PPR but in a lot of cases you can just go pretty much wherever without a flight plan (unless you're crossing country lines).

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blubber41@reddit

Is it possible to fly from say Marseille in France to Aarhus in Denmark VFR and not talk to anyone?

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waxbear@reddit

In Denmark at least, all airspace is uncontrolled by default (radio mandatory above FL95, controlled above FL195), but then you have control zones and TMA shelves around all airports. I've never not been let through whenever I've asked them though.

It's true that you need to file a flight plan when crossing country borders though, with a few exceptions.

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

You need to fly a flight plan if you want to fly across country borders. I suppose it's kind of like US military wouldn't be too happy, if someone flew a random aircraft from Mexico or Cuba to USA without flight plan and without talking to anyone.

There are large chunks of uncontrolled (by that, I mean also class E, as you don't need a clearance through as VFR) airspace around, but it all depends where you are flying, as every country has their own way of deciding how the airspace will be classified. Some use mostly class G at lower level outside of regional/major airports, some use a mix of class G and E. There is also a lot of class A airspace around at low level (UK, Spain, Netherlands), so you can't even get a clearance through as VFR.

While it's perfectly doable, it's a lot less hassle to fly IFR long range, because ATC will keep you away from all the restricted airspace, etc., and you have to worry much less about the airspace classes, and who you need to call to get clearance through class C or D, etc.

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nexxic@reddit

Theoretically I think it's possible as long as you stay in class E or G airspaces but there's quite a lot of RMZ + A, C, and D airspaces where you'd need two-way coms. So might be possible with a lot of planning and flying low, but there's usually supportive FIS/ATC services along the route so personally I'd go that route :)

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

There are so many restricted airspaces that you would probably want to contact the control to help you! But if you fly low you may be able to not speak to much people

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waxbear@reddit

That's possible.

But in Denmark and Sweden (probably other countries too, but not sure) we have an information frequency which is strictly for VFR flight following. If you have a radio and transponder, I'd advise you to call them up.

They'll give you a squawk code and warn you about traffic as a minimum, but they'll also give you local QNHs, warn about specific conditions (gliders or parachuters in the area, for example) or let you know if you're about to bust a TMA or active restricted area.

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PeculiarNed@reddit

No. You have to talk to people when crossing country borders. You also need a flight plan to legally cross even within shengen.

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__joel_t@reddit

Curious about needing to clear customs from a dumb American. I thought France and Switzerland were both Schengen countries, so why did you need to clear customs in France?

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

I ask this question myself! It doesn’t make sense. But actually I just had to send an e-mail to say I am crossing the border. And so far they never came to check.

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Cal-Goat@reddit

I fly heavy jets for my job and all I can think about is how fucking cool this exact thing is. Let’s trade airplanes for a day.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

I am up!

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oholterman@reddit

This is very amazing and nice too read! Happy flying!!

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ErictheRedKind1@reddit

Where is your Cub's home base? And, if it's not in France, how did you get the airplane there?

That must have been a beautiful trip. I haven't flown GA since I joined the airlines, and I really miss it sometimes.

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sugjer@reddit (OP)

It is based in Switzerland from where I took off!

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