What legally does my workplace have to have in place?
Posted by Original_Document748@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 97 comments
I work at screwfix , the majority of the job is spent in the warehouse walking around getting customer orders and putting items away , there is absolutely zero ventilation in the warehouse . No AC , no windows. Literally nothing . I have started to get worried about not only my safety ,what if I pass out etc but for my colleagues too , what if someone passes out while high up on a ladder near the ceiling because of the heat ? Not only that but we stock highly flammable things . What legally is my work supposed to have in place for this ? Are they legally supposed to have anything ?
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
I’m a chef, I’ve unfortunately worked in a kitchen that had a broken extractor (maintenance kept saying it was not broken) it hit 58 Celsius at its hottest and it was still legal
UKSTL@reddit
I’ve experienced that too and it was grimmmm 20k steps in a hot asf kitchen sucked
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
Yeh the only upside I can think is that sexual harassment dropped when phrases like I’m so sweaty my bra smells like vinegar used to leave my mouth during that time. I was struggling this Saturday when it was only hitting 26 and I came home with leg chafing rash, honestly don’t know how I survived that summer. Typically of course maintenance finally acknowledged the issue and fixed it in winter and then the kitchen was bloody freezing
UKSTL@reddit
Opening in the winter grim closing in the summer grim 😂
Nappy rash cream is a life saver
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
I start at 7am, I’m lucky I don’t do nights any more, but yeh I don’t see a lot of daylight in winter. I do get a couple of weeks of beautiful sunrise in spring. I’ve probably got better pictures but this was the quickest to find
UKSTL@reddit
That is beautiful, I’m jelly you’re near the sea!!! Before I got out I was often open to close
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
Yeh I’ve done years of 80 hours weeks, took being a victim of a crime and going to therapy and talking more about work than I was about the crime to realise just how bad things were. I could still be doing 60 plus hour weeks for more money than I’m on but thankfully have realised there is more to life than chasing accolades in work even if it dies mean finances are tighter. I get every Sunday and Monday off, even bank holidays and was able to take a holiday day today as my kids are off school. Went out with the kids on Sunday to a castle and for a walk through the countryside today. Just wish I’d realised in my early 30s instead of wasting several years, but I’m glad I realised at all
UKSTL@reddit
I feel that,its good you managed to get one of the hottest days of the year of though!! if you ever need to vent though feel free to drop me a message
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
Thanks that’s really sound of you, hope you’ve had a great day
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Thats awful! That should not be legal .
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
No it shouldn’t be in my opinion and there should absolutely be upper limits for working indoors in my opinion. Honestly I just wish I could sweat out fat, I’d be so damn thin
ExternalYam5324@reddit
Hiya mate, ex B&Q here.
There’s no defined temperature limit but any workplace should make reasonable adjustments to ensure your safety.
I had a similar issue some years ago in which our store’s cooling system completely packed in and very quickly turned the building into a large slow cooker which just got hotter and hotter, retained the heat overnight and picked up again the next day. The unit manager didn’t give a toss, his office had AC.
I stuck a message on viva (then yammer) asking a similar question to yours, ensuring I tagged the head office H&S mob in. Colleagues from our store commented on the post in agreement and within a few hours our DM was in Asda buying cold drinks and ice pops. We were given permission from our regional manager to “stores own use” several fans which were spread out across the store. The AC was fixed within a couple of weeks.
I know how quickly a Screwfix unit can warm up and it’s unfair to be expected to just deal with it. Have a chat with your manager/team leader and see what you can achieve, opening some fans or ac units, keeping a loading door open if there’s a breeze and it’s safe to do so, the store buying refreshments are all very reasonable in the short term.
As for what you can affect immediately, wear shorts, wear short sleeves, drink plenty of cold drinks. Make sure you can evidence that you’ve done everything in your control to be cool. In the past, I’ve been known to keep a small ice pack under my hat ;)
Hopefully things improve for you all soon!
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
So talking to a supervisor apparently they were supposed to put AC in last year and the manager said hed follow up on it because they hadnt come and they just haven't heard anything after that
ExternalYam5324@reddit
Don’t be afraid to keep pressing on it, the more staff voicing dissatisfaction, the more likely they’ll listen.
Gellert@reddit
"Safe working environment" in terms of temperature usually translates to drinking water. Unless the temp is extreme, worked in a place that has a room that reached I think 60°C and we were only allowed to work in there for 2mins in an hour.
Questjon@reddit
You have an absolute right to refuse to work if you believe your health or safety is in imminent danger. And not only are you protected from being sacked for exercising that right you are also protected from any future unfair treatment as a result of it.
So the question is, do you truly believe you're in danger and do you have the balls to stand up for yourself? And if you think safety in general is lacking, don't whine on Reddit, get organised. Form a union, or join one and become a safety rep. Give a list of grievances to management and get round a table to discuss them.
lxlviperlxl@reddit
Realistically he’s a minimum wage worker. If he’s been there for less than 2 years, he’s getting sacked.
We definitely need strong legislation to make employee welfare more black and white. You can legally argue for temps under 16degres but there’s not upper limit.
https://www.acas.org.uk/extreme-temperatures-in-the-workplace#:~:text=What%20a%20reasonable%20working%20temperature,effort%2C%20it's%2013%C2%B0C.
Gellert@reddit
Realistically they'll do a "healthy and safety assessment", tell him he's full of crap and to get back to work.
UpsetKoalaBear@reddit
> Realistically he’s a minimum wage worker. If he’s been there for less than 2 years, he’s getting sacked.
This changes from next year tbf. Protection from unfair dismissal will become a right after 6 months of being in a job
There is still a case that it can be reported to the Health and Safety Executive. Health and Safety is a day one right.
okaycompuperskills@reddit
They can’t sack him for that though. Easy tribunal win, nice little payout
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
There's no legal maximum temp in the uk, but they are ment to provide a "reasonable" temperature in an indoor workplace.
Gotta love grey areas in the laws :(
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Its definitely not a reasonable temp . Theres not even windows so its essentially a giant sauna
lfcsupkings321@reddit
Odd they sell loads of AC units and fans but don't use them..
split-tennisball@reddit
You make money from selling them, not using them.
lfcsupkings321@reddit
Yeah but you also make money from good customer service and happy staff mean more returning customers.
Bowtie327@reddit
Staff dying on the job would tend to hurt productivity I reckon
firthy@reddit
You know there’s 14% youth unemployment…?
MrBread0451@reddit
Yes, but realistically what's the ROI on giving my workers what you commies call a "lunch break"?
lfcsupkings321@reddit
Job market is in gutter so might have a line up of replacement outside..
capitalism got to love it...
eggs_and_ham_i_am@reddit
It's out back, sweep them under the shelving units and no one needs know.
audigex@reddit
Happy customer-facing staff tends to mean more returning customers
But as long as the deliveries are still made, customers are unlikely to know about warehouse conditions
Flyinmanm@reddit
If it's any consolation my Screwfix appears to be in a newish air-conditioned unit and they elect to keep the front door pinned back on hot days, with the AC running. Their electricity bill must peak through the roof.
Certainly wouldn't want to be working back of house by the time the let in hot air gets there.
StarfishPizza@reddit
Don't get high from your own supply..
lfcsupkings321@reddit
Was more a tongue-in-cheek comment lol
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
I know 😅😂 they just expect ppl to work in a sauna all day walking around for the majority of it and we also get picked up on if we pick orders too slow lol
DoKtor2quid@reddit
Have you tried asking if they can install some fans or ventilation? Without asking, we can't know if this is a crappy workplace, or simply a shop somewhere and that the managers don't even realise cos no one told them...
Feeling-Bluebird8413@reddit
Be glad you aren’t working in a kitchen
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Its not a competition about who has it worse . Grow up .
Mabenue@reddit
It’s not always practical for certain places to have AC. I worked in a factory that would regularly get up to 50C in certain on the shop floor when it was hot.
It’s not a competition but plenty of places have it much worse so I doubt there’s going to be much appetite to regulate too strongly on this.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Whataboutisms dont help anyone. We've been needing a law on max temps for over 15 years now.
I have a client i recruit for that is a foundry, they will be hotter than almost any other work place in the country. That doesnt mean they get out of basic health and safety.
A dry warehouse can 100% have aircon inside, just like an office can.
Mabenue@reddit
The reality is workplaces aren’t as clear cut as Reddit post and legislating this is difficult without being overbearing to businesses. At a time where the country is experiencing low growth there’s very little appetite to add more red tape to businesses.
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Red tape?
Bro come on stop being silly. Its not about companies, its about workers. I say this as a business owner.
Wise-Sympathy9585@reddit
If you were to get anywhere, you would need to get actual measurements of how hot it is. Just saying a giant sauna is very subjective. I used to work at a screwfix and tbh, it was one of the cooler jobs I have ever done, relaxed job too.
That isn't to say it would be the same across all the branches though. I am sure there is large variation. On days like today, no windows would more likely be a good thing.
voluotuousaardvark@reddit
That is insane- I was literally having this conversation in screwfix earlier today!
I was like "its nice they've got air-conditioning for customers" all sarcastic.
And the cashier was like "check these out!" And a few years ago they retorfitted their whole warehouse out with "eco airpods"
Warehouses are the worst for being cold in the winter and obscenely hot in the summer.
For you Id suggest keeping water with you and finding a way to log the temperature in different parts of the warehouse and as much as your manager hates it, take more frequent breaks.
As long as you can justify you'll be fine. Jogging off at 0900 for a smoke when its cool isn't going to cut it but nipping off at 1230 when youve been at a counter for a long time is absolutely reasonable.
DEADB33F@reddit
I used to work outside in all weathers. When it was crazy hot/humid we'd take 5 min breaks every 1/2 hour ...productivity was way higher like this vs taking our regular longer but far less frequent breaks.
Pip1710@reddit
It happens in my office every year; the outside wall is just one big south-facing curtain wall, and we have a "passive" MVHR system that is not effective.
The process is to complain to HR; HR does a review; HR finds that it is, in fact, too hot, proposes we rent some temporary AC systems, and by the time it gets approved, the heat wave is over.
Alien-lifeform666@reddit
Really? I was under the impression that there was? That’s shocking!
Ok_Adhesiveness_8637@reddit
Nope, I believe there are rules around cold (like working in a freezer for example), but nothing set im stone for heat.
George_Salt@reddit
Hot weather is a reasonably foreseeable risk, so there should be a risk assessment that considers it. Off the back of the RA there should be actions to reduce or mitigate the risk.
But remember, Brits don't take hot weather seriously because "we're not a hot country". Brits are mostly idiots when it comes to risk and safety.
Freerollingforlife@reddit
Agree - I’m assuming there will be somebody in the warehouse responsible for H&S.
Anyone half-decent can whip up a quick temporary RA for extreme weather (risks - heatstroke, skin irritation ability to focus. Reasonable adjustments- more breaks, iced water close to hand, fans/ac units used)
An hours work and everyone’s in a happier place with less risk of everyone calling in sick tomorrow because they are battered…
George_Salt@reddit
By default the branch manager is responsible for H&S.
Freerollingforlife@reddit
Yep, I was picturing a big distribution warehouse, forgetting that it’s a trade outlet with its own warehousing.
spaceshipcommander@reddit
There is no legal maximum temperature in the uk.
They do have a legal duty to provide a safe place of work though. They should have risk assessed your work area and mitigated the risk. Ask them to see their risk assessment.
WaltzFirm6336@reddit
As a former teacher, I wish there were rules. My last classroom was on the second floor, one long wall of south facing windows, no window coverings of any sort and the windows slid open 1cm. Regularly got to 25-28, got to 36 one heat wave. Teaching 5 hours sharing that space with 32 teenagers was probably the most grim situation of my life. And yes, I did get told off for blocking the classroom door open as it was a fire door.
PipBin@reddit
Not at the moment but there is a move to change the law.
SavingsFeature504@reddit
The law can't be changed. The law (as shit as it does) works best as it is as had to be a reasonable temperature, it works at the minute because a reasonable temperature in a kitchen would be completely different to the reasonable temperature in an office.
Different workplaces have different requirements and needs and the government won't accomadate for every workplace
PipBin@reddit
But as I said there is talk about changing that. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2p1j4y0kro?app-referrer=deep-link
SavingsFeature504@reddit
Yea I know. But it won't change. It can be talked about. And it has been talked about dozens of times but it won't change
tt-23@reddit
That’s the spirit! 😄 Of course it can be changed - laws are changed all the time. It can change with exceptions, ranges, or with requirements (eg around fans, breaks, or regulations for new construction).
SavingsFeature504@reddit
It can be changed. But it won't. They will not be able to put a law that covers every workplace. Because what happens when a new workplace variety starts up.
Is it possible. Yes. Is it feasible. No.
It has been discussed before. And never got anywhere because it's not feasible.
Do I wish it changed. Yes.
tt-23@reddit
Yes, can I encourage everyone to actively support a change in the law - this is only going to get worse 🥵
Friendly_Pride_5870@reddit
Welcome to Screwfix the only thing your manager will care above is his trade customers it's why I no longer work for them 😂
Aeysir69@reddit
Nope. Cold; yes. Hot; not so much.
Diplomatic_Gunboats@reddit
Unless you are storing stuff that has specific low temp needs, you are not going to have explosions going off below 50c.
That doesnt mean of course that I wouldnt make damn sure there wasnt something that needed relatively low temps...
quite_acceptable_man@reddit
There is no legal maximum temperature, but there is a union that's trying to push for a change in law.
However, employers are expected to take reasonable measures to keep you as comfortable as possible i.e. fans, access to cold water and regular breaks.
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Depending on how long I work I either get 15 mins or 30mins , we dont havr access to cold water apart from the water which comes out the tap which isnt that cold tbh lol , we dont have fans even though we sell them lol
Milvusmilvus@reddit
Ask your BM to consume some fans from stock and use the staff incentive petty cash money to stock the fridge
mythtixx@reddit
Can you buy a fan or somthing and just use it? Tbh if i worked there I'd probably just go tell boss man I'm roasting to death so I'm opening and setting up an ac unit or a fan
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Im not sure why ppl have downvoted this 😂 ppl on reddit are so weird sometimes
quite_acceptable_man@reddit
Water from the tap can be cold enough if you let the tap run for a minute or so that the water is coming from underground, not the stuff sitting in the pipes in a hot building.
Do you have a fridge with freezer compartment in your staff room? If so, bags of ice cubes are prety cheap from any supermarket.
And if you sell fans, then your manager should be writing a couple off for staff use. That would 100% be a reasonable measure, and i would say it would be unreasonable for your manager not to do it.
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
I think we have a fridge and freezer yeah , i will be definitely buying some ice for my colleagues and maybe some ice lollys and water:) i just get quite worried about there safety tbh in this weather . Some of them are quite alot older ( ones in his 70s nearly )
quite_acceptable_man@reddit
Your colleagues will revere you like a god. But really it should come out of petty cash. Screwfix is a massive, very profitable company, staff shouldn't be spending their own money to be comfortable at work in this weather.
Responsible-Ad-1086@reddit
I work in the public sector and we have a large warehouse, we have to log a ticket for our estates team to come turn off the heating, obviously cost too much for a thermostat and our staff can’t access the controls
dwair@reddit
Come on mate. Stop messing about with your phone. I checked in on line from the car park so where is my order?
DMMMOM@reddit
Personally I'd fake pass out, hitting my head on something on the way down, like a cardboard box or something. Make it noisy, get it on camera, then start writing your letter to HR.
ames_lwr@reddit
Have you asked for anything? Fans, access to cold water etc?
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Not yet I wanted to understand what there legally required to do first
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Look on the HSE website. Other than breaks and water there’s not alot more your employer needs to do.
Vertigo_uk123@reddit
Ask your css to speak to the sm or area manager to write off a couple of air con units. Make sure you get plenty of water. Keep the doors and windows closed as otherwise you are just equalising inside with outside air temp.
Legitimate_Corgi_981@reddit
Could be worse. I spent a summer working in a warehouse unloading garments from trucks, the containers were being unloaded on the south facing bays...was like standing inside an oven during peak daylight hours on the back of those trucks. Our closest water source was about a 10 minute walk over to the other side of the warehouse. Absolutely no AC on the main floors, just the offices, zero fans, everyone was shuffling around like sweaty corpses by the end of shifts.
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Yeah thats what its like .....were constantly picking stuff on the shop floor or unloading deliveries . Some of things are very very heavy too like 20-45kg
darS234@reddit
They don’t have to do anything. Be thankful you’re not a chef in this weather!
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
I used to be a chef so I know what thats like but its not a competition lol
darS234@reddit
Nobody said it was!
JuanitaMerkin@reddit
you implied it was by making a really unnecessary comparison.
darS234@reddit
Did I? I made a comparison, still didn’t say it was a competition!
JuanitaMerkin@reddit
No need for people working in a chefs to even be in a conversation.
It’s a bit like saying to someone on here asking about food banks that their children starving in Africa.
darS234@reddit
I chose a random job that I know is hotter than working in a Screwfix warehouse…stop taking things so literally!
Original_Document748@reddit (OP)
Exactly .....lol
moreboredthanyouare@reddit
Cows have more rights than you unfortunately
Amazing-Visual-2919@reddit
Have you seen those fans that you wear? Anyone tried them ?
Master-Trick2850@reddit
neck fans are pretty good
DutchOfBurdock@reddit
Take a look at ACAS guidelines surrounding this: https://www.acas.org.uk/extreme-temperatures-in-the-workplace
Whilst there is no maximum upper temperature (only a lower), there are other things your employer must do to mitigate the risks.
CoffeeIgnoramus@reddit
They have to keep you safe, but there are no specifics about temperature. But definitely bring it up with your manager. Then it's up to your manager to worry about it.
But probably best to ask a legal sub.
Boboshady@reddit
There's no explicit legal requirement around maximum working temperatures, but there's more general health and safety law and plenty of guidance which suggests allowing more breaks, plenty of drinking water, maybe some fans etc.
If you have any concerns, have you raised them to your manager? It's much more of a problem if you have raised concerns and they are ignored.
And without passing judgement (purely for reference), if you're looking for a blanket "yeah you can stop work now because of A, B or C", then that doesn't really exist.
Regarding the flammable stuff more generally, it will come with storage guidance regarding temperatures, I very much doubt anything is actually dangerous at the kinds of temperatures you're likely experiencing though - you don't mention, but I assume pushing 40degrees? Again, raise any concerns to your manager and make sure they satisfy you with their response, it's only really a problem if they just fob you off.
Obviously, if you're starting to feel dizzy from the heat, then don't climb any ladders, or continue working in general. This is just common sense.
JedsBike@reddit
Legally I don’t know. But I’d be talking to my manager about the possibility of unlimited ice lollies and cold drinks.
It’s not reasonable to expect people to work without ventilation or AC in this kind of weather.
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